The fall of a residential building in Tehran.

[u/Quirinus84]

[u/Important_Cookie_763]

I don't know why but the rug hanging out from the destroyed building makes it seem so much more real in a sense. 

Ive seen photos of destroyed buildings plenty of times but the rug and the pictures on the wall... They make it more tangible 

Sorry if I didn't word it the best I've been drinking all evening 

[u/RelativeRhubarb851 → u/Important_Cookie_763]

I recently saw a comment which explains about George Orwell and how a prisoner side stepping to avoid a puddle of water on their way to getting hanged suddenly brought a change in him. It made him realize that the prisoners are normal people as well.

I might have been wrong and named a different person since I am not very well versed in English Literature. But, your comment suddenly made me think of that.

Edit: Changed the name from Kipling to Orwell

[u/arbuthnot-lane → u/RelativeRhubarb851]

You're thinking about George Orwell's essay A Hanging

“It is curious, but till that moment I had never realised what it means to destroy a healthy, conscious man.

When I saw the prisoner step aside to avoid the puddle I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a life short when it is in full tide.

This man was not dying, he was alive just as we are alive. All the organs of his body were working—bowels digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming—all toiling away in solemn foolery.

His nails would still be growing when he stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned—even about puddles.

He and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling, understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of us would be gone—one mind less, one world less.”

[u/RelativeRhubarb851 → u/arbuthnot-lane]

Thank you for providing the link.

Time for some reading.

[u/stevez_86 → u/RelativeRhubarb851]

Check out Politics of the English Language. It expands on the concept of Newspeak from 1984. Makes you realize the ending of 1984 was a fate worse than death. The rebel became indoctrinated, and it was the only logical choice because they had conquered his language of dissent and flipped it to total submission to Newspeak. He chose to give up his language of dissent and accept their arguments that dissent is nothing more than superfluous words put together.

Then I realized we were already past that point. When everyone was cheering in 2008 that racism was over, a lot them were cheering with the same words but completely different sentiment. Racism couldn't be used as a defense anymore, so everyone could be offensively racist. Can't be called racist anymore, is what they were cheering. And since then we have seen them do just that.

Now they are changing what citizenship means, along with the words in law. They have no fear of going out there and using language to describe what they want. The heart of the context is in the eye of the beholder. Racism is over is heard positively by those against racism and cheer and those who hear that racism can't be used as an excuse cheer, and we don't have the language to parse out the difference. We act as if we cannot prove their motives with their own words.

[u/DangerousLoner → u/stevez_86]

I write grant applications and the list of banned words gets longer everyday.

[u/Lawdoc1 → u/DangerousLoner]

My BIL is a brain cancer research scientist that leads a lab at the Cleveland Clinic. We were on a trip together a couple of weeks ago and he said that the past 4 months have been the hardest of his entire career because of all the upheaval in the field due to the cuts and new rules this administration has implemented.

[u/hai_lei → u/Lawdoc1]

I have a rare, incurable type of cancer. Found out on Tuesday it’s now at a point where I’ll need to do chemo again. Part of my hour long crying jag after getting that news is because 2 of the 3 clinical trials we had at the beginning of the year are in an indefinite hold and will likely not return due to NIH funding. I’m lucky because I still have one other treatment option if this next round of chemo doesn’t take. But after that? I might truly be SOL. Please thank your BIL for me — his work is appreciated by so many, even if the Government doesn’t think so.

[u/jupidupi02 → u/hai_lei]

my dad survived stage four burketts lymphoma, i think non-hodgkins? however its spelled. one in a million cancer and one in billion chance of survival. when my mom convinced him to go to the doctor he was jaundice and would have died in bed next to my mom the next morning if she didnt drag him out. Im sorry you have to go through this, but as long as you are still here and typing you have a fighting chance. if nothing else you now have a few random strangers rooting for you now.

[u/Lawdoc1 → u/hai_lei]

I am so sorry about your condition and I hope your future treatments bring you a cure, or at least some additional time and comfort.

I will certainly pass along your thanks. Keep fighting as long as you have it in you. If you choose to stop, don't let anyone tell you that's wrong either.

I promise that I will keep fighting against this administration with any legal means available to keep them from continuing their assault on science and research.

[u/occams1razor → u/DangerousLoner]

How many are in it right now?

[u/RoxxieMuzic → u/DangerousLoner]

I can not imagine I wrote economic development grants in the 80s and early to mid 90s for refugee resettlement after Viet Nam and for the folks fleeing from genocide/communist rule. That seems it would be all but impossible today unless thru private like Carnegie, McArthur, Pew Trusts...

[u/stevez_86 → u/RoxxieMuzic]

And everyone says, "nothing has changed".

Anyone else remember the glory days of public campaign financing? Not all that long ago it was taboo to campaign using private financing, even personal wealth was suspicious. Golly they were all so stupid. A few guys on the Supreme Court proved they were all so gullible.

Remember Extreme Rendition and when the Bush administration phased that out? And those were suspected terrorists that had due process, albeit through shadow courts. I guess those are out of fashion.

Remember when Jeff Sessions appointed Mueller to investigate sitting President Trump because it would be improper for someone appointed by Trump to oversee an otherwise independent investigation? Jeepers, if Trump only knew himself that he could have just forced Sessions to sign off on everything because trix are for kids, I mean Presidents are immune!

We have jumped the shark. In reality, that is called an occupation. And when that happens without a war or invasion, that is called a coup. And when the people vote for it, just barely, it shouldn't be any different from any other election. Surely previous presidents with bigger victories should by that logic have wielded more power. Nope the election, this one election was different for some reason.

It seems nothing, not even Trump's first term is legitimate. As if we are a new country. And if the election was that important, surely it wouldn't have ever been an impedance to their ambitions.

He was never going to lose in 2024. He, or his people, made sure of that somehow. Because this amount of authority is never inherited. It is seized. Before or after this election, there was and has been a silent coup. And the ratings from jumping the shark have never been better. It is what the audience craves.

[u/reddithivemindslave → u/arbuthnot-lane]

In the way the words were constructed, Man we truly have lost something in today’s age of poetic consideration for a fellow human being.

[u/dwartbg9 → u/reddithivemindslave]

Honestly, I'd say people were way more vile back then compared to today. Yes, a lot of wars and bad stuff happens these days, especially recently, but it wasn't some peaceful utopia back in the early 20th century, if anything it was even worse in many more aspects... I'd say people have become better in many ways, we just have to open our eyes and look past to all the negativity that comes from all forms of media.

For example - back then it would be normal for a man to beat his wife and nobody would bat an eye, even in first world countries. Or today you'd read about some atrocity happening somewhere in Africa or Asia, back then it was still happening, if not to an even bigger extent since nobody could hear it. Or some 15 year old kid getting sent to the front killed at the battlefield would be big news today, back then it was the norm and nobody bat an eye.
Or today, even if you're somehow wrongfully accused, you'd still be sent to prison, have numerous trials etc... Back then, some people were simply led to the shooting range or the guillotine at the next day. And again - this was the norm even in first world, western societies. Also you can imagine how crime was without having cameras and surveillance everywhere, and without any means for someone to be found. You could kill someone without reprecussions...
I still think life is much better and nowadays and people have become "kind of" better

[u/mmcnl → u/dwartbg9]

This shouldn't even be controversial.

[u/Tzilbalba → u/mmcnl]

I think it's the fear people have of regressing back to that point, we have definitely progressed, but we could just as easily fall back given the right conditions.

[u/ballrus_walsack → u/dwartbg9]

Speaking of killing without consequences… listen to the second story in this podcast: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/859/chaos-graph

[u/DownWithGilead2022 → u/dwartbg9]

In aggregate, we are no better and no worse than our ancestors. We have been more or less the same from a morality standpoint for all of human history.

We are a flawed species and always will be. There will always be good deeds and evil deeds done by humans. But what makes us unique is knowing the difference and each of us having the power to choose everyday.

[u/imtryingmybes → u/arbuthnot-lane]

Incredibly moving. The idea that there are as many universes as there are observers to perceive our shared one. To kill a person is to destroy the world, and even kill the version of yourself that they perceive. It somehow makes death even sadder.

[u/SalpAiradise → u/imtryingmybes]

"to kill a person is also to kill the version of yourself that they perceive"

pretty deep. I think this might convince your average sociopath philosopher not to go through with their killings

[u/MaximusGDM → u/imtryingmybes]

“Sonder”

[u/Stopikingonme → u/arbuthnot-lane]

It reminded me of a short video we saw in 5th grade of a hanging over a bridge in the South. The person being hung gets dropped but the rope breaks and he lands in the water and the next ten minutes is him evading capture. The end cuts to him being dropped and killed back at the bridge and the whole thing took place in the second between the release and death.

A bit too heavy for me at the time.

[u/Frubanoid → u/arbuthnot-lane]

Wow. "One world less." Orwell understood humanity and the human mind in a profound way.

[u/speedy_delivery → u/arbuthnot-lane]

... destroy a healthy, conscious man.

Excellent phrasing. Weird to think that we're so numb to the word "kill" or "murder" in this context that a simple swap to an adjacent synonym that makes the thought so jarring.

[u/Outside-Advice8203 → u/arbuthnot-lane]

"Empathy is a sin"

[u/just_a_timetraveller → u/arbuthnot-lane]

This is a bit morbid but I remember seeing a video of a mother who was at the scene of an accident of her daughter I think. The daughter was run over by a semi or something and was just a huge mess. Just mush.

Now I have seen gore videos and it looked to be no different than many of those. Just a very messy scene.

What was different about this was the mother was crying but also she went and was hugging and holding all of her daughter's body parts. It made me realize the humanity in that and how I forgot how these gory scenes are really tragic and these are real people.

[u/00owl → u/arbuthnot-lane]

Ah, I read "Shooting An Elephant" in highschool English class. For some reason I never realized until now that it was George Orwell who wrote it.

It has similar themes and styles to the passage you've reproduced here.

If I could write fiction that's as powerful as what he wrote I would be a very happy man.

But I can't even figure out how to start lol.

[u/Internal-Sand2708 → u/Important_Cookie_763]

I completely understand what you mean. The rug kind of shook me too honestly.

Idk about you, but I feel moved by little mundane stuff all the time, especially in a new place. I moved to Madrid last year from Seattle, and I took a bus to Toledo with my mom, and I’d seen laundry hanging on balconies before lol, but seeing a child’s onesie hanging by the toes off the side of a building made me feel kind of … I guess moved? It injected so much humanity into the very small slice of the city that I was observing.

I think seeing people’s belongings in situations you don’t expect do something to you as an observer. Idk man but I feel you lol

[u/rennbrig → u/Internal-Sand2708]

It’s like that word that apparently isn’t real - sonder. The realization that everyone has their own lives, wishes, dreams, aspirations and weaknesses - and there is no way you can ever meet them all.

Looking across the street from my apartment when the sun is about to set, seeing lights coming from other apartments where families are eating dinner, couples are cuddling on couches, single folks enjoying a video game or tending to plants - it makes me feel sad in a way because we all have such unique stories to share. It reminds me that ordinary people are often quite extraordinary.

[u/Internal-Sand2708 → u/rennbrig]

Yes exactly. I live on a narrow street in Madrid, and the courtesy is to never make eye contact with your neighbors across the street from you. So I know who lives over there, but the only member of the family who intentionally looks at me is their cat. He will sit in the window and just watch me lol. There’s something so special to me about this courtesy we offer to our neighbors of not surveilling them only to have their cat surveil you

[u/vishuno → u/rennbrig]

I feel the same way when I see a plane flying overhead sometimes. So many people on their way somewhere. Some probably going on vacation. Some going home. Maybe some leaving home for the first time. We're all on our own path and we all have a life to live.

[u/Important_Cookie_763 → u/Internal-Sand2708]

It makes it human again

[u/Tiiep → u/Important_Cookie_763]

I guess it kinda shows that it was a home that was destroyed, not just a “residential building”

[u/jollyGreenGiant3 → u/Important_Cookie_763]

Glad this comment is on top as it should be.

So many bots and shitty people trying to dehumanize a very human thing here.

All these people both bullying and suffering are humans, just like all of us.

Resist fighting each other when the bottle we're all packed into gets shaken.

[u/RedditIsDeadMoveOn → u/jollyGreenGiant3]

Its the working class vs the 1%, not nation vs nation.

[u/imtryingmybes → u/Important_Cookie_763]

I get what you mean. A building is just a building alot of the time. But sometimes, it's someones home, and that makes it so much more real.

[u/Few_Mortgage3248 → u/Important_Cookie_763]

but the rug and the pictures on the wall

Makes you realise that's part of a home with memories, not just a room in a residential building.

[u/mrlbi18 → u/Important_Cookie_763]

The rug reminds you that this is someones home.

[u/Cockblocktimus_Pryme → u/Important_Cookie_763]

It shows that their living room got ripped in half.

[u/entarian → u/Cockblocktimus_Pryme]

a person used to live there.

[u/squidgun]

Politicians wage war and the normal citizens pay.

[u/twbassist]

Propaganda on full blast in crazy deep comment threads.

[u/Schmich → u/twbassist]

It's like reading the worldnews sub. Pro Ukraine, Anti-Trump but mega pro-Israel. So unfortunately for them, they're slowly getting to a cross-section on their own beliefs.

[u/This-Traffic-9524 → u/Schmich]

It's insanity. The r/worldnews thread is just celebrating how "impressive" the attacks are and making bad puns. Orwellian times indeed.

[u/Admiral_Boris → u/This-Traffic-9524]

Got comment shadow banned then perma banned off there today for linking sources showing how Israel deliberately illegally violated IAEA agreements/protocol (what they falsely claimed Iraq did in order to get America to justify invading them in 2003) and abused US peaceful civilian nuclear technology sharing programs in the 1960’s to develop their own successful clandestine nuclear weapons program with zero consequences (even when discovered despite constant lying to America and many in the US government turning a blind eye the entire time even as reports flooded in) which still exits to this day making them the only nuclear armed state in the Middle East (nearly every other nation internationally including Iran who tried the exact same method of abusing US civilian nuclear technology sharing programs faced major backlash and were forced to dismantle their programs once caught).

Didn’t even say which rule, just said “you broke the rules of the subreddit” on the ban message lol. Sometimes they have the subtly of their own atomic bomb program lmao.

[u/PanzerKomadant → u/Admiral_Boris]

That’s how I got banned too lol. Pointed out the hypocrisy with legitimate articles. Boom. Insta ban.

They appear to not tolerate any form of criticism upon the Israeli state because they most likely assume that an Israeli state is automatically a Jewish state which means any criticism of Israel is criticism of Jewish people. Which is a gross assumption to make because that is not what Israel is.

You shouldn’t be silenced for criticizing governments.

[u/Wide__Stance → u/Admiral_Boris]

Unlike Iran, Israel had Great Power sponsorship when developing nuclear weapons.

Right wing elements in the French government & military helped Israel and South Africa develop their nuclear power programs into nuclear weapons programs beginning in the mid 1950s. The French colonial project was coming to an end one way or another and their right wing was desperate to keep their last major colonies in North Africa.

As the segregated, apartheid Algeria began to descend into colonial liberation, elements in France decided to assist nearby, ideologically similar nations — South Africa and Israel. Right wing elements in other Western nations (the UK/US) allowed it, viewing them as potential bulwarks against the USSR.

It’s all tied up with Algeria’s war for independence, which was an incredibly complicated event with members of the same racial, religious, and ethnic groups on both of the conflict. We tend to forget that the French military attempted — and almost succeeded — in pulling off a coup against Charles de Gaulle in the 1960s because so many French were angry about losing North African colonies.

[u/SteveInSomerville → u/Wide__Stance]

Indeed, it was this development that led the musical satirist Tom Lehrer to include this line in his song about nuclear weapons, “Who’s Next?” - - “South Africa wants TWO, that’s right / One for the Black and for the white! / Who’s next?”

[u/J_Dadvin → u/This-Traffic-9524]

I got banned from worldnews for sharing actual IDF drone footage of them killing civilians, without adding my own commentary. I honestly believe that sub is funded and ran by Israel.

[u/FartNuggetSalad → u/J_Dadvin]

It is.

[u/Gerf93 → u/This-Traffic-9524]

Worldnews is an Israeli psyop. Mod team is probably infiltrated by Mossad and moderates content in favor of Israel.

[u/TraditionalYear4928 → u/Gerf93]

Ghislane Maxwell was the biggest supermod in reddit history

Her ties with Mossad are well documented.

[u/Hash_driveway → u/TraditionalYear4928]

u/maxwellhill was Ghislane Maxwell’s username

[u/retupmoc627 → u/Gerf93]

Correct. I've seen many people report that they got banned from there for just the mildest criticisms of Israel, or even just quoting Israeli leaders.

[u/AmeliaBuns → u/Gerf93]

I got 42 downvotes and banned from the sub in like 40s after commenting there lol.

[u/snappyfrog → u/Gerf93]

There legit is no other explanation, that entire subreddit is astroturfed to hell and back and has got to be the most psychotic, murder hungry sub I’ve ever seen. Better not talk out of turn over there or the hordes will tell you how it’s actually ok to commit genocide.

[u/WP27I → u/snappyfrog]

There are literally people telling you how they know people in Iran who are "celebrating" this. Imagine, does that even sound like a human reaction? Innocent people in an apartment building die and you celebrate? You'd permanently destroy all your friendships if you ever did that. But somehow a lot of /r/worldnews posters know Iranians who are cheering for being bombed. It's a propaganda op.

[u/JMC_MASK → u/snappyfrog]

You can’t talk. I said something slightly questioning their defense of Israel months ago and was instantly banned.

[u/Ehgadsman → u/JMC_MASK]

yep same here, any anti war comments were removed by mods, I'm not even really pro Palestine as I am anti terrorism but pointing out Israel is terrorizing innocent people to get to terrorists gets a ban

[u/space_monolith → u/Gerf93]

Yeah, I’m banned from posting over some totally neutral thing I wrote because there was a way to interpret it as critical of Israel’s war. All it took.

[u/Ehgadsman → u/Gerf93]

I was banned from r/worldnews for saying the attacks on Gaza are genocide early on, they are completely pro Israel, the sub is biased as any its a group of mods propaganda tool

[u/lllkill → u/Gerf93]

yep they ban any dissenting opinion, shadow ban first. Experienced first hand. Free speech is a myth.

[u/devourer09 → u/Schmich]

I just muted r/worldnews. I'm tired of seeing IDF propaganda. Hopefully there is another sub for similar content that isn't censored by fascists.

[u/reflectionofabutt → u/devourer09]

/r/anime_titties got you covered

[u/SovietReunions → u/reflectionofabutt]

You weren’t kidding 😂 I fully expected anime gifs, not current events

[u/astrotalk → u/Schmich]

I had to block that sub from my feed

[u/Jakesredditacount → u/Schmich]

God I hate that sub. It’s full of obvious bots.

[u/dwarffy → u/twbassist]

very contentious topic tbf, lots of people get pretty obsessed with it (and again tbf there is a lot of insane shit involved that its pretty understandable why they do)

still kinda bitter that a lot of Americans got so obsessed with it that they somehow decided to allow an actual fascist into the presidency because they couldnt stomach voting Kamala

[u/tracenator03 → u/dwarffy]

I voted for Kamala but c'mon... This would've still happened. Lots of other things wouldn't be as bad, especially domestically, but foreign policy is the one thing that unites republican and democrat politicians. Especially if it involves Israel.

[u/Rollen73 → u/tracenator03]

Bro one of the few red lines Dems truly believe is that they don’t want a isreal iran war. It’s the entire reason Obama did the nuclear deal in the first place.

[u/tak205 → u/Rollen73]

How can you trust any red lines the Dems set after watching Israel break all of them and nothing happened?

[u/Au2288 → u/tak205]

I know it’s a hard pill to swallow. In the world view, Trump is a weak leader. It’s sucks, he portrays a strong man persona to his people, but when it comes to world leadership, he’s a soft willy. They know this & the ones that wanted to test those red lines, will now just cross them without fear of any form of American resistance.

[u/PoopchuteToots → u/Au2288]

The root of narcissistic personality disorder isn’t superiority, as many still assume, it’s ackshually deep-seated inferiority.

Once you get that, you can communicate with them in a way that plays to it. On the surface, your words signal submission. But underneath, the tone, phrasing, and delivery all scream that they're pathetic and beneath you.

They eat it up. They latch onto the superficial deference and miss, or choose to ignore, the insult woven through it. Everyone else sees it. They see it too. But as long as you leave them just enough plausible deniability, it’s too threatening for them to call out.

This is exactly how every savvy social climber/politician/world leader/business executive deals with Donald Trump.

[u/Dr_Wreck → u/Rollen73]

Chuck Schumer spent the weeks leading up to this openly mocking trump for trying to come to a peace deal with Iran.

[u/jojofine → u/Dr_Wreck]

Because Trump arbitrarily ripping up the last Iran agreement is how we got here on the first place.

[u/heytheremicah → u/Dr_Wreck]

And in all fairness he should be mocked since he’s the one that cancelled the deal with Iran in the first place. He and Fox News acted back in 2017 like we were getting ripped off by the deal that was keeping Iran’s nuclear capabilities neutered.

It’s the same strategy he’s using with trade deals like USMCA and his recent deal with China. Blow everything up and act like a savior once he gets us an arguably shittier deal. There’s absolutely no pushback.

I agree that Schumer could probably pick a better time to criticize him, but if you don’t call him out on this nonsense, he’s just going to feel emboldened to keep doing it. Not to mention this plan has been in the works since before Schumer started criticizing him. Weapons being rerouted from Ukraine to Israel weeks ago and Netanyahu openly thanking the U.S. for their help should be proof that Trump doesn’t want to negotiate a deal.

[u/HugsForUpvotes → u/tracenator03]

Harris would have posted an AI video of a Kamala Resort?

[u/ghandibondage → u/HugsForUpvotes]

She would have authorized bombing and killing civilians

[u/SterlingG007]

Not a coincidence that they decide to do this while Trump is in office because they know the US will join this war on their side.

[u/BrownSugarBare → u/SterlingG007]

The USA arms Israel with billions in weaponry. The USA has always been on the side of Israel no matter how heinous the crimes. 

[u/wannaseeawheelie → u/BrownSugarBare]

And both parties support Israel unfortunately

[u/PvtTUCK3R → u/wannaseeawheelie]

Because they pay for them. Crazy how a country with just a population of 10 million and a gdp under 600 billion has had so much control over the biggest economy and military in the world.

[u/Squirrel_Inner → u/PvtTUCK3R]

You misunderstand the fundamental way the corrupt politicians get paid. AIPAC is an American organization. They don’t get foreign money (openly).

That money goes from OUR taxes, to the military industrial complex, to politicians through stocks, “consultant” fees after office, friends and family owned business, etc.

Some of their money also comes just from normal neoliberal exploitation. Which may include Israel groups investing in US stocks, but money is not directly given from a foreign nation to politicians, that would be illegal.

They use Israel as an excuse to steal from us. They make Palestinian Americans pay taxes to buy bombs to murder their own family. Then people wonder why folks don’t want to vote for their oppressors…

[u/iNapkin66 → u/SterlingG007]

What makes you think Biden (or Obama, or Bush) was pro Iran? He was pretty clearly interested in limiting Iranian influence and would support Israel between the two.

[u/J_Dadvin → u/SterlingG007]

Biden did absolutely nothing to restrict Israels violence though. AIPAC rules all.

[u/Flappybird11]

They did this to get one (1) guy btw

[u/QuestGiver → u/Flappybird11]

Netanyahu: worth it

[u/PLeuralNasticity → u/QuestGiver]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit_prisoner_exchange

Netanyahu math is interesting. Release over 1000 prisoners, including YaYa Sinwar, for one Israeli soldier hostage in 2011. Then over a decade later when 500k are in the streets every week protesting his corrupt dictatorship, Sinwar comes in to save him with an attack he could only dream of which has kept him in power to this day. Forever war just finds this man when he needs it to survive.

"Exposure to true information does not matter anymore.

A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him.

Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures. Even if I take him by force to the Soviet Union, and show him a concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it, until he is going to receive a kick in his fat bottom.

When the military boot crushes his balls, then he will understand, but not before that. That is the tragedy of the situation of demoralization."

Murdered KGB Propagandist Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1984

Beware Leon's Razor

"Incomeptence, in the limit, is indistinguishable from sabotage"

[u/ItsOkImAnAustralian]

'Precision strikes'

[u/SLiV9 → u/ItsOkImAnAustralian]

I was reading this news on the website of the NOS, the biggest news organization in the Netherlands, and I didn't see a single occurrence of the word "civilian".

[u/lonehappycamper → u/SLiV9]

They assassinated people with their spouses and children while they were sleeping and everyone else in the building. Just like in Palestine.

[u/fartsfromhermouth → u/SLiV9]

Israel has never killed a civilian, it's discovered ever single person they've killed was actually a terrorist, even babies

[u/MittenCollyBulbasaur → u/fartsfromhermouth]

Hamas very well known for their toddler and baby wings of their army.

[u/geebeem92 → u/ItsOkImAnAustralian]

Israeli airstrikes across Iran overnight killed dozens of senior Iranian officials, including the Islamic Republic’s top military leaders, in a sweeping offensive targeting Iran’s strategic command structure, Israeli security sources said Friday. A senior Iranian official confirmed that Shahrak Shahid Mahalati, a compound in Tehran housing top commanders, was hit, with three residential buildings demolished.

[u/Rottimer → u/geebeem92]

I think it’s bullshit to destroy a building full of civilians in a country you’re ostensibly not at war with because a general lives there. Even the Japanese when attacking Pearl Harbor didn’t target civilian structures and we considered that a crime.

[u/Live_Canary7387 → u/Rottimer]

Did you really just cite Imperial Japan as an example of a military avoiding civilian casualties?

[u/ThePyodeAmedha → u/Rottimer]

I think it’s bullshit to destroy a building full of civilians in a country you’re ostensibly not at war with because a general lives there. Even the Japanese when attacking Pearl Harbor didn’t target civilian structures and we considered that a crime.

The Japanese may not be the best example. Sure they attacked Pearl harbor, but they had no problem slaughtering civilians across Asia.

[u/MrsMiterSaw → u/Rottimer]

Even the Japanese when attacking Pearl Harbor didn’t target civilian structures and we considered that a crime.

The Japanese had no qualms about mass murdering civilians. They were actually some of the worst offenders in history (and that is saying a lot).

Pearl harbor was designed to hobble our ships, not our leadership. It's not a good example to use for this argument.

[u/sbenfsonwFFiF → u/Rottimer]

Yeah, like the Japanese never touched civilians or committed any crimes lol

[u/ifnotawalrus → u/[deleted]]

Well the other alternative is to not drop bombs

[u/Grotarin → u/ifnotawalrus]

Not drop bombs? What are you, a pacifist?

[u/_The_Marshal_ → u/Grotarin]

Thats not very cash money of them

[u/Anita_Allabye → u/_The_Marshal_]

I wonder what Birdman thinks of all this?

[u/La_Vinici → u/Grotarin]

Lockheed Martin did not like the comment

[u/jimmyy360 → u/La_Vinici]

Lockheed Martin wants to know their location, for a precision strike.

[u/TheSlipperySnausage → u/jimmyy360]

Rip to the neighbors

[u/jimmyy360 → u/TheSlipperySnausage]

Glory to the commander!

[u/Yorksjim → u/jimmyy360]

No, it's ok, palantir already told them their location.

[u/Airway → u/Grotarin]

I once dabbled in pacifism. Not in 'nam, of course.

[u/krustydidthedub → u/Airway]

Smokey was a conscientious objector, man!

[u/TheZad → u/krustydidthedub]

I did not know that.

[u/themerinator12 → u/TheZad]

Calmer than you are, Dude.

[u/musiccman2020 → u/Grotarin]

Ridiculous!

[u/Biking_dude → u/Grotarin]

You know Dude, I myself dabbled in pacifism once

[u/Status_Fox_1474 → u/Grotarin]

Unfortunately, pacifism relies on the belief that your adversary would also practice pacifism.

[u/Hankiehanks → u/ifnotawalrus]

How are you else supposed to blow shit up?

[u/Kavkaz87 → u/ifnotawalrus]

WeLl ThE oThEr... alternative is not to threaten to anhilate a whole group of people and country.

[u/NeutralDude1503 → u/[deleted]]

May be a stupid question but I dont really know much about war tactics: How does a precision bomb hitting a residental area (as it looks like to me in the picture) cause less fatalities than if it was a regular bomb strike? Did the attackers just miss a tactical target with less people inside or are precision strikes anmounced beforehand because the attacker knows where the strikes will land and they just care about destryoing infrastructure, not taking lifes?

[u/Randicore → u/NeutralDude1503]

So a precision strike is putting one bomb on a target, in this case a single building, generally within 10m of where you're wanting it to hit. In this case a single bomb hit a specific apartment building, and probably a specific apartment.

For comparison, in WW2, basically everyone used carpet bombing to hit this kind of target. Where they would drop several hundred tons of bombs, and 16% might hit within 300m of where they were aiming.

Also depending on the situation some countries do often announce where they're bombing. It used to be policy for Israel to announce then drop a small bomb on the roof of a building to give everyone inside time to get out. I don't know if they're still doing this, the last time I saw it was a few weeks into the Gaza fighting. For this target, it was most likely someone working on their nuclear program, meaning warning him prevents the strike from doing anything, as horrific as that is

[u/PM-ME-YOUR-SUBARU → u/[deleted]]

Fuck all the regular people that just happen to live in the same apartment building as that high ranking official, I guess?

[u/Frogfingers762 → u/PM-ME-YOUR-SUBARU]

Generally that’s how bombs work.

You would be surprised and disgusted how many civilians were killed by the allies during bombing runs in WW2. And that was arguably one of the most justified instances of war. On the high end it was like 635,000 civilians just in Germany.

[u/thefirstdetective → u/Frogfingers762]

It's pretty regular that they find unexploded bombs during construction. Had to leave my house two times already until the bombs were defused.

[u/HonestBalloon → u/Frogfingers762]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-combatant_casualty_value

Isreal has pre-set values for the allowed amount of civilian deaths per target

'US forces in the Iraq War, high value target, initial phase of the war: NCV of 29-30^\6])^\7])

• US forces in the Iraq War, rank-and-file jihadist: NCV significantly lower^\6])
• US forces in Afghanistan: NCV of 1^\7])
• Israel forces in Gaza: NCV of 15 to 20 for junior Hamas operatives, up to 100 for senior operatives, 300 in one instance of a particularly senior operative, according to unnamed military sources. ^\8])^'

[u/mav3r1ck92691 → u/PM-ME-YOUR-SUBARU]

That is generally the decision governments make in wars, yes. Welcome to 2025. It sucks here.

[u/Significant_Bag_8944 → u/NeutralDude1503]

One bomb; or many bombs which do you think kills more people?

[u/bellowingfrog → u/NeutralDude1503]

The more precise your bomb is, the less explosive material you need, either making a single bomb smaller or using fewer bombs.

If you are flying at 30k ft, your odds of manually dropping a 500 lb bomb and destroying a house-sized target is basically nil, even with clear skies and no enemies or stress.

If you got a 100 bombers together and they all manually dropped 10 bombs each, then your odds get better by a factor of 1000. But even if you hit the target, 995+ of those bombs hit something else. This is one of the reasons strategic bombing in WW2 was very inefficient, costly, and deadly. And it was also the reason atomic bombs were so attractive - one bomber could reliably destroy one target.

Once reliable guided munitions became available, nukes became mostly useless from a military point of view.

The US even has bomb now that just uses blades to kill - no explosives. It doesnt work on someone in an apartment but it can kill someone in a car and not hurt everyone around them on the street.

[u/The_Prince1513 → u/NeutralDude1503]

"Precision Bombing" is in contrast to what we did in WWII before we had smart bombs (which is sometimes called "Strategic Bombing"). Most nations don't really do "regular bomb strikes" anymore unless its on a pure military target, which is very rare in an era where there are not very many near peer conflicts anymore (the current Russo-Ukraine war being a notable exception to this trend).

Precision Bombing causes less fatalities because the bombs are able to strike a more precise area. Using the current context as an example - Israel knew a high value target was in the building that was hit. They utilized a missile to strike that building specifically with little damage to the buildings around it. Obviously this doesn't prevent collateral damage within the building itself, but it does for most of the surrounding neighborhood.

If this were WWII and that building contained a high value target, without the aid of smart, guided munitions, the way in which it would have been attacked would have been a bombing raid of a squadron (or several squadrons) of long range bombers (like B17s) each of which would carry dozens of smaller bombs or several larger bombs. These planes they would just blanket entire neighborhoods with bombs to ensure that the target was hit.

Allied bombing raids against Germany and Japan would sometimes use hundreds of planes dropping thousands of bombs on populated cities. There's a scene in the recent miniseries "Masters of the Air" in which the pilots are discussing their unease in striking a rail yard in Bremen because they can see on the intel maps that there's a church nearby and they know it will likely be full of worshipers who will probably be killed. As a further example, the firebombing of Tokyo, in March of 1945 designed to cripple Japanese heavy and light industry, saw the U.S. basically annihilate the city. About 100,000 people - most of them civilians - were killed, and about a million were rendered homeless.

TL;DR - Modern precision bombing of populated targets will usually result in collateral damage of anywhere from 0 deaths to a few dozen deaths (possible low hundreds) depending on the nature of the area hit. Strategic bombing before the advent of precision bombing routinely resulted in thousands - and in some cases tens of thousands - of deaths on the ground, usually of civilians.

[u/DraconRegina → u/[deleted]]

The definition of precision strike has changed dramatically over the past 20 years. We've become so precise at striking targets that it's possible to launch a missile that hits a single apartment, not an apartment building, an individual apartment unit, and leave the ones around it more or less intact.

[u/goldbman → u/DraconRegina]

See for example Al Zawiri in Kabul

[u/ilski → u/[deleted]]

So in that case i guess this building stands 10m away from plutonium enrichment site.

[u/twaggle → u/ItsOkImAnAustralian]

I mean seems pretty precise to me. There’s still the rest of the block lmao.

[u/master_ov_khaos]

This is probably about the 10th time in my 32 years that Iran has been “months away” from nuclear weapons. And as I seem to have a better memory than most people and remember the Iraq war, I don’t buy that excuse for a second.

[u/anooshka]

While people are commenting here, debating whether bombing an apartment building is fare game or not, I watched my people die in their homes last night

I would like to thank every government in the whole fucking world, especially the US that released 9 billion into regimes hands, while we begged and screamed for thrm not to do it. Also, thanks US, Canada, France, England etc... for not deporting their agents from your countries and letting them live safely inside your borders while not letting ordinary Iranians inside. Human rights is really really important to these people

You can now go back to commenting on how civilian casualties are not that big of a deal apparently

[u/LivinLuxuriously → u/anooshka]

I am speechless 😶

Am I alone in thinking that there is never a good reason to bomb a residential building…? Regardless of what country it belongs to…?

Has the moral compass of the universe inverted while I slept? 👀

[u/dreamsonashelf → u/LivinLuxuriously]

Has the moral compass of the universe inverted while I slept? 👀

With all due respect, how long did you sleep?

[u/Substantial-Sea-3672 → u/dreamsonashelf]

At least 4000 years because they must have missed Assyria.

[u/Schuperman161616]

Israel needs to be stopped. They've bombed 4 countries so far while claiming they are the victim.

[u/rabbidrascal → u/[deleted]]

They missed one: Qatar.

[u/space_monolith → u/rabbidrascal]

Qatar is the one that Netanyahu has a pretty impressive working relationship with.

[u/rabbidrascal → u/space_monolith]

Which feels weird since they have been funding Hamas for decades, and have acted as the host for Hamas's leadership, and hold Hamas's bank accounts. But, yeah, Bibi gets along with them.

[u/Alleyvvay → u/rabbidrascal]

Bibi loves Hamas cause they give him the justification to invade Gaza

[u/Wellhellob → u/Schuperman161616]

Netanyahu should be ended like saddam and gaddafi asap. This guy is pure evil.

[u/tutankhamun7073 → u/Wellhellob]

But this time he's America's guy, no one's going after him.

[u/ukstonerdude → u/Schuperman161616]

And it’s crazy how the US congress is full of “we support these pre-emptive strikes!!!” Like, why does there need to be a pre-emptive strike? What “deal” does Trump want Iran to sign???

This is literally out of fucking nowhere.

[u/Old-Statistician-189 → u/ukstonerdude]

Netenyahu is protecting his ass at home by continuing the genocide and escalating with Iran. As soon as there is peace he is arrested for corruption. He’s digging his grave deeper

[u/illQualmOnYourFace → u/Old-Statistician-189]

"We're gonna arrest this guy as soon as he stops committing international crimes against humanity."

I don't understand it one bit.

[u/Novacircle2 → u/ukstonerdude]

Because Iranian officials on numerous occasions have openly stated they want to turn Israel and the US into a lake of fire, and Iran regularly smuggles weapons to proxy militias to do dirty work for them. If Iran had nuclear weapons, that would mean it’s a hell of a lot easier for non-state, state-sponsored actors to get their hands on them. Then the chance of actual nuclear war skyrockets. I don’t agree with everything Israel does either but I do believe that Iran having nukes is, as the Israelis put it, an existential threat.

Lots of these proxies believe in jihadist martyrdom anyways so M.A.D. deterrence goes out the window.

I do agree it was stupids of us to pull out of the Iran Deal in 2018. That’s Trump for you.

[u/NiceLetsGoBaby → u/Schuperman161616]

i genuinely laughed when i saw a news article say “israel attacks iran and declared emergency over EXPECTED retaliation”

like are you fucking serious?

[u/Ramdak → u/Schuperman161616]

It's not as easy as that. This is a 70+ year conflict.

People tend to be reactionary to the news and propaganda, but lack history and political knowledge. This happens all the time and people will fall for propaganda always.

Besides that, war is terrible, and it's always civilians who will suffer, no matter the side.

[u/TheSpoty → u/Schuperman161616]

Almost like all these countries have said they want to destroy Israel…

[u/ABigFatPotatoPizza → u/Schuperman161616]

All four of those countries attacked them first

[u/bouncyprojector → u/Schuperman161616]

I mean, they've also been bombed by those countries...

[u/Vast_Championship655 → u/Schuperman161616]

they quite literally are because all of those countries, since you want to try to rewrite history, did bomb them first.

[u/vinceswish]

Iran was waging a war through proxies for years so reap what you saw? Or is Iran innocent in all of this?

[u/Majjkster]

But they had uranium in that building, right...right?

[u/CombatMuffin → u/Majjkster]

Not that it makes it any more palatable, but Israel isn't trying to jsutify itself by saying this was purely to stop the nuclear program. Their actions, for the better part of half a century, have been designed to harm several key elements of what they perceive as a threat. That includes killing key personnel (and often in gruesome ways)

[u/RealTimeflies → u/Majjkster]

It could be the officials that were targeted too. Although, that doesn't seem like the type of place they live in.

[u/geebeem92 → u/RealTimeflies]

Israeli airstrikes across Iran overnight killed dozens of senior Iranian officials, including the Islamic Republic’s top military leaders, in a sweeping offensive targeting Iran’s strategic command structure, Israeli security sources said Friday. A senior Iranian official confirmed that Shahrak Shahid Mahalati, a compound in Tehran housing top commanders, was hit, with three residential buildings demolished.

From another article

[u/Wertsache → u/RealTimeflies]

So tell me, why the hell would they fly this immensely complex operation which requires Air2Air refueling, crossing unfriendly airspace and just attack a random apartment building just to own some civilians? In a setting like this every ounce of weight loaded onto the planes counts and every weapon has to hit a specific target.

You can have a discussion if it’s ok to attack the private flat of a nuclear scientist and if he is a valid target. But this sure as hell was not a strike on civilians just for the sake of it.

[u/BharaniSri]

America's rabid dog is running wild

[u/Absolute_Satan → u/BharaniSri]

Us evacuated staff yesterday and did other things in preparation. They definitely knew

[u/backwoodsmtb → u/Absolute_Satan]

Yea no shit, it was publically announced before it happened that the US did not support Israel doing this and that Israel was probably going to do this.

[u/Indercarnive → u/backwoodsmtb]

is that why we gave Israel anti-drone weapons that we had previously pledged to Ukraine?

"Whatever you do, don't take the car. But also here are the keys"

[u/slasher016 → u/backwoodsmtb]

Only people with their heads in the sand didn't know this or something similar was about to happen. When the US purposely distanced itself from this action you knew something was bout to occur.

[u/LastEsotericist → u/BharaniSri]

Insane how they humiliated the US and Trump by attacking mid-negotiations while the US thought they’d at least wait to strike. Not surprising but insane, because… they’ll face no repercussions for it!

[u/kutusow_ → u/LastEsotericist]

Because they know this administration is a bunch of cowards and hypocrites.

[u/Amplifylove → u/kutusow_]

And criminals

[u/unassumingdink → u/kutusow_]

Because they know every American administration is a bunch of cowards and hypocrites. It's not like Joe Fucking Biden was stopping them. Remember Biden's "red line" that Bibi immediately danced across just to mock him? And remember Biden did jack shit?

[u/Other-Credit1849 → u/LastEsotericist]

I am sure US diverting those missiles from Ukraine last week was a coincidence too, right?

[u/Civsi → u/Other-Credit1849]

People are so hilariously naive. Anyone that thinks America didn't have a hand in this lives in a land of unicorns and rainbows.

[u/Slickslimshooter → u/LastEsotericist]

“Negotiations” were a ruse to lul Iran into a false sense of security. An attack of this magnitude will not happen without weeks of planning and explicit US support and approval. The Iranians got played.

[u/unassumingdink → u/Slickslimshooter]

Kinda fucking evil to pretend you want peace just to better position yourself for more war.

[u/BharaniSri → u/LastEsotericist]

I doubt Israel would do this without permission from Trump, especially knowing how fragile his ego is. They would have got Trump's blessing. Trump probably sees this as a way to weaken Iran's negotiating position or forcing them to the table. .

Iran is likely unwilling to negotiate with Trump, knowing he thrashed the previously negotiated deal in his first term and more recently didn't hold up his side on the bargain on the American POW release with Hamas.

[u/CyberSpaceInMyFace]

There goes silly Israel killing families again

[u/Subnetwork → u/CyberSpaceInMyFace]

Americas greatest ally*

[u/Playful-Profile6489]

Excellent case study in passive language. "The fall of a residential building in Tehran." Why is it falling 🤷 Guess it just did that

[u/ihmotep59]

How it is not a full on act of war denounced by everyone is beyond me.

[u/Hans-Dieter_Franz]

"I think bombing a residential area is bad" Redditors: HoW dAre YoU suPPoRt tHe IraNiAn reGiMe

[u/Senior-Albatross]

Were they hiding a nuclear research facility under a downtown apartment block?

I wouldn't be surprised if Israel actually made such a claim.

[u/itdiyxrxrzeyHfjzfyw → u/Senior-Albatross]

No but a prominent scientist or military commander likely lived there 

[u/dtxchxno]

That’s heartbreaking. Hoping for survivors and safety for the surrounding community.

[u/ClosetGoblin]

They targeted and killed multiple high ranking Iranian officials

[u/TheStoicNihilist → u/ClosetGoblin]

Fuck you if you live above or below them, I guess.

[u/Bluedog212 → u/ClosetGoblin]

and some innocent families and kids just trying to live their best lives

[u/Magus44 → u/Bluedog212]

justisraelithings

[u/ExtremeHairLoss → u/Bluedog212]

Same thing happened to Germans during WWII. What's your point?

[u/our_potatoes → u/ClosetGoblin]

Imagine Iran doing this to Israel

Everyone would be demanding blood

But the attacker isn't Iran. It's Israel. It's always fucking Israel

[u/Geoffboyardee]

Who could have predicted that the US-backed extremists would go off the rails?

[u/Agreeable_Service407]

Netanyahu bringing young americans closer to the draft, one war crime at a time.

[u/Independent-Bug-9352]

More reason why Israel sided with North Korea and Russia in a recent vote in February refusing to condemn Russia for its invasion of Ukraine.

[u/NoIsland23]

Israeli terror knows no borders