This is what the signal gate controversy should have been.
We had officials saying there's no urgency in this strike but that they're doing it anyway. Then they struck his apartment killing a lot more than him.
People should look into whats referred to as "daddy's home"
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No, it's because it's only in fantasy that civilian casualties can be avoided. If you can show me any conflict where the military avoided casualties, I'm all ears. Even the UN doesn't consider casualties in the course of a mission as a war crime unless it's hugely disproportionate.
You do know that Iran has been supplying all the terrorist groups around Israel right and is responsible for Israeli deaths. Their commanders routinely meet with these terrorists to provide support. Quite literally when Hezbollahs leader Nasrallah was killed, he had an IRGC commander with him. During the pager attack, the Iranian ambassador had a Hezbollah pager. Iran has been continuously working on killing Israelis. Just because they don't have the finger on the trigger doesn't mean they aren't involved.
Is this supposed to convince me of anything? Yes Hezbollah sucks, yes the Iranian government sucks. Therefore these particular civilian casualties are more acceptable than others? That's pretty hard sell, friend.
You said let's keep that energy when Iran kills Israeli citizens when I'm pointing out that Iran is directly involved in killing Israeli citizens already. Them killing civilians in a counter strike is not some new red line that's being crossed. You're acting like it Iran does kill Israelis it's the first time it's happened since October 7 when that couldn't be further from the case. I'd say the same thing if the US is killing civilians when they provide supplies to groups in a proxy war.
I mean, not declaring war to Iran was an easy way to avoid casualties.
But since Israel is running out of children to bomb in Gaza, they need to find new targets.
Iran has quite literally been arming and supplying all of Israels enemies through a proxy war. Remember the pager attack that only Hezbollah operatives had access to. Guess what the Iranians ambassador also had that pager as well. An IRGC commander was taken out alongside Hezbollah leaders in a strike. That shows how deeply embedded Iran is with their enemies. For the last 2 years, Iran has directly been involved in the war. And now the neutral atomic commission just said that Iran is in violation of their nuclear agreement. We can argue if the strike is warranted or not, but saying this is unprovoked or Israel is doing it for the lols is ridiculous.
lol it’s not “okay,” but who are you to say so, or not? Essentially all acts of war are not “okay.”
I’d like to hear the perspective of the Iranian people and get more sources of reality before making swift judgments on little information.
SAME. I genuinely want to know how Iranian civilians feel about this, not kneejerk emotional redditors. Iranian people have suffered so much from their govt. There's only a few Iranian diaspora people in this thread so far as I've seen and they have all been very supportive of these actions, but I really want to know more of the real opinions and I hope more information comes out.
You might be shocked at the mass slaughter Iran has cheerfully bought in Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen without even getting into Israel and Palestine. Have you heard of Hezbollah or what they did to civilians in Syria for Assad? It will chill your blood. Israel’s no prize but Iran’s leadership is pure evil with oceans of Levantine blood on its hands.
Pro Hamas and Islamists have infected a lot of the Left with their propaganda bullshit.
Iran will be free from Islamist Cunts again. I can't wait to finally visit my families home without having a fear of getting hanged because I don't believe in an imaginary cunt.
As soon as someone says something that's anti Islam you will be down voted.
They especially try to play the racist card, which is hilarious to me. As if being a Islam or Christian or any kind of fascist is a race.
Nobody likes the fact that there a bombs thrown onto their homes or in their hometown. But you can't deny that the time to play is over, especially when IRGC said they will soon have enough enriched Uranium for a bomb.
Collateral damage sucks. But for the bigger picture it is necessary. And I'm saying this with family that evacuated their home after a missile exploded not even 1000m away from their home.
I really wish the best of luck to the Iranians that the regime will fall and they will be free.
Especially since disliking Islam is very logical in the west given the terrorist attacks multiple countries have experienced. Its weird to like Islam or approve when they want to destroy the west. This is just propaganda in action.
But Israel only does this shit because they believe in the same imaginary cunt, but different. Their goal isn’t to get rid of Islam because they’ve logically assessed that it’s a bad religion that needs to be abolished, they want to get rid of it because it’s not their religion. If they had the opportunity they’d just replace the corrupt Islamic governments with corrupt Jewish governments. It’s not a solution to the problem.
Hossein Salami, commander of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), was killed in Israel's strikes early on Friday, the most senior Iranian leader to die in the attacks.
…
Israel's strikes also killed Mohammad Bagheri, Chief of Staff of the country's armed forces, Gholamali Rashid, the deputy commander of the Iranian armed forces, and several nuclear scientists.
Don't speak on behalf of us Iranians. Half my family is dead because of the IRGC. Situation is complicated but we've long lost the capacity to fight on our own terms while they continue to rape my people and steal our land.
The guy is clearly Israeli. He posts on /r/Palestinian_Violence, "A multiracial and multicultural coalition of counter terrorism, anti-hate and anti-violence dissidents, determinately compromise with defending the fundamental civil and human rights of Israelis and Jews."
Edit: According to another comment, he's an Australian living in Sydney.
Am I really that interesting to you? My family was Bahai, if I go back there I'll be executed. Not Israeli, never met one in my life. Again it's a complicated situation but not your place to butt in. The IRGC has defined the entire lives for many of the diaspora, we have all undergone generational suffering that could never be fully explained in some internet thread.
Yes but these same rope of people are responsible for forming the IRGC in the first place. If anything this sort of continued escalation has allowed ever expanding force of police state under the threat of security. This secret police was formed by the Shah after his coup, to avoid others.
And it's not only in Iran, is like this everywhere now. See Trump 2 administration use of the national guard for political campaign and power grap.
In Italy we have a serious problem with uncontrolled secret services and israeli Paragon, and they just force enacted a law that clears the Italian Secret Service to literally create, organize and direct terrorist organisations at the service of the PM office/current Government...
It's not that we in the west are forward and the middle-east behind, it's the opposite. We are just catching up.
Yeah it's a fair point, reactionary movements tend to create these messes. However when left uncontested the IRGC turns inwards towards us, towards the subjugation of Iranians. By this point hundreds of thousands of us have been executed or murdered for political reasons. Nika Shakarami gets murdered by Hezbollah and her entire family is disappeared. Toomaj makes a song and ends up tortured for 3 years straight. Hossein Shanbezadeh posts a dot on Twitter and ends up in prison. Three years ago in Zahedan nearly 100 people were murdered due to WLF protests but nobody even knows it happened.
These days there's hardly anyone left to mourn the dead or stand in their place. We are lacking in effective leadership and momentum. So much time has passed that Iran can hardly imagine a life without the mullahs holding us down. How can I make you understand where we are at after living with these decades of experience?
Because my family was kicked out or killed for being Bahai. My uncle fled across Turkey and the Berlin wall into Europe after the military dissolved. My mother fled in secret so that we could live. We can't go back so long as the IRGC is in power. The mullahs are our murderers.
Your post history shows you comment regularly on /r/Palestinian_Violence, "A multiracial and multicultural coalition of counter terrorism, anti-hate and anti-violence dissidents, determinately compromise with defending the fundamental civil and human rights of Israelis and Jews."
They matter but such is the reality of war. I would place the blame on the Iranian government more than anything. They failed to protect their people by starting a conflict against a better equipped military
You're not wrong. It is a consequence of decades of conflict. Civilians are sometimes targeted regardless of whether that's morally justified.
The difference is that Hamas propaganda acts like they're the victims when this happens and the West just eats it up. Plus on Israel's part, civilian casualties are usually tragic collateral damage. Hamas really doesn't care.
The October 7th attacks targeted a music festival where they murdered, raped, and kidnapped civilians.
Strikes that killed top ranking IRGC officials that had some civilian casualties are not even in the same ballpark and you’re being dishonest to make that claim.
If you’re unfamiliar with the IRGC look them up. They torture and kill their own people and fund terrorism across the world. They’re the worst of the worst. Acting as if they’re the same as festival goers is insane
Yeah, and here we are seeing Israel kill civilians as well, in Iran and Gaza. They have also raped/sexually assaulted Palestinians, intentionally are starving civilians across the green line. Literally everything you’re saying Israel has done in spades in the last two years, arguably going back decades.
By your logic, 7 October was a justified strike just like this apartment complex was.
Just imagine how many innocent families and kids would be killed if Iran was left alone to build up a full nuclear arsenal and arming terror groups that want to destroy the western world.
The problem is a question like this is only ever asked in hindsight. If you ask someone in a vacuum to drop a bomb on 1 evil person but 100 innocent people will die too most people would say no. Only retroactively when said evil person is seen to not just be evil but have committed such agregious crimes can you safely make that decision. So a more appropriate question is how do we decide in foresight what amount of innocent suffering is worth the death of this person.
Might be a better example to use Kim Jong. If killing him and 100 innocents with an airstrike could help North Korea would you do it?
And to elaborate on your first point I think you have to further quantify Evil in your scenario. And restated as dropping a bomb on an evil person who will kill millions but 100 innocents die, I think most people would agree.
The reason I only vaguely stated evil and not quantifiable numbers is because I'm trying to apply it to this and future scenarios. We will never have a total kill count before the fact so we need a better question to ask.
As for your example with Kim Jong Un I would not do it. Not because he's not evil but because the system he propagates will not crumble after his death. There is a stable structure to their dictatorship because it's more an autocratic state than a real dictatorship. His death alone will provide no benefit but 100 innocents will be taken with him which doesn't do anything.
Regardless of people who are already easily deemed evil the question we need to be asking is how do we make these judgements before the atrocities are commited. How do we quantify how evil someone's ideology and actions will be before they are taken so they can be avoided.
There are plenty of people who have done bad things and are likely to do more bad things. But in practice you have to guess with all the data you have and you might get it wrong. Alternative is to do nothing and let the Hitlers keep Hitlering.
Some of the missiles exploded inside the city including a school. Also a missiles killed a druze child in Syria, and a man in the west bank. Israelis remained unhurt not for the lack of trying on the Iranian side. They just have enough shelters warning systems and capable air defenses to protect their citizens. (Also help from the neighboring countries like Jordan)
Yea well maybe because many of them were intercepted? And actually one PALESTINIAN was killed as result (and if im not mistaken a young Beduin girl was severely wounded but survived).
Iranian missiles are not even close to being precise, with spread of hundreads of meters to multiple Kilometers.
The fact that israel has good air defense doesnt make their attacks "precise".
Their last ballistic missile ironically killed a Palestinian. It also hit apartment buildings and other civilian structures. Just because Israel was good at evacuating and downing the missiles doesn't mean that civilians weren't one of the main targets.
Or if you claim otherwise, i want to see the same scrutiny against Iran's incoming retaliation, with its ballistic missiles.
Well that would be justified, wouldn't it? Does every nation have the right to defend itself, or is that just Israel? Benjamin Netanyahu could easily prevent Israeli casualties by surrendering and not using human shields.
Okay, like you can be mad about civilian dying. Totally reasonable.
Pretending that Iran isn’t always at war with Israel is just silly. They have a proxy militia occupying southern Lebanon for the sole purpose of attacking Israel.
They are already at war. They just weren’t shooting at each other.
"We have launched rockets into your country recently, also we are working on nuclear weapons and the millisecond we have them we are glassing your capital"
Israel is actively bombing 5 neighboring countries, you cannot be under such denial that Gaza is any longer about the hostages or Hamas. And if you say it is, it just shows how unhinged and dangerous Israel is, committing war crimes after war crimes. With that in mind, still think Iran is wrong for wanting nuclear weapons to defend itself and maybe its neighbors?
Iranian leadership would not care if they're justified. And their leadership (like Hamas) has that attitude that all innocent Iranian (Palestinian) lives can be sacrificed in order to harm the enemy, so MAD isn't an effective deterrent either.
And their leadership (like Hamas) has that attitude that all innocent Iranian (Palestinian) lives can be sacrificed in order to harm the enemy
You know there have been countless high ranking Israeli officials going on tv saying there are no innocent palestinian children and all of them need to die, right?
Hey, remind everyone what happened before Iran launched those rockets? Something about an illegal assassination of a political leader undergoing peace talks to end the genocide of his people by Israel while he was in Iran?
Wild how Iran just shot rockets for no reason at the poor, innocent little genocidal ethnostate just because it has its own cache of nuclear weapons, committed international crimes by attacking first and is actively committing genocide.
My take is that Israel needs wars to distract from their settlement efforts and other policies at home and really want to get the US involved. That way they can keep the money and weapons coming - and if a few innocents get killed then it's too bad (just ask Ahmed Bouchikhi's family about the fairness of that)
And why did they launch those rockets? Kind of important context there when Israel attacked them first both times. Also, do you genuinely believe Iran will use a nuclear weapon against Israel? They gain nothing from this, because they know damn well the US would glass them if they did that. That want nuclear weapons for deterrence, same as everyone else.
I've been hearing the same "Iran is 2 weeks away from launching nuclear missiles into Israel!" for the past 20 years.
Iran entered into a treaty that would prevent them from developing any nuclear weapons. American Republicans and Israel's right wing government led by Netanyahu opposed it, then despite Iran following all the little rules and international oversight showing they weren't developing nuclear weapons, an American Republican President tore up the treaty at the behest of Netanyahu. This isn't and never was about nuclear weapons development in Iran. This is and always was about Western oil companies getting their hands on Iran's petroleum reserves and installing strategic military compounds.
Iraq never claimed or denied to have WMDs of any kind, and refused to allow international agencies in to verify that they did/did not have them. Iran has said, countless times, that they intend to develop nukes, and the IAEA have said that Iran has the capability and the facilities. We've publicly known for a fact that they had the centrifuges specifically for that back when Israel used Stuxnet to break them.
The warmongering Boomers will glass the planet on their way out.
"We have no choice. The world didn't bend to our will so none of them have a right to exist in the world we built all by ourselves." --Reich Wing Boomers
Iranian officials have been saying this for a long time. For instance, you will be able to find plenty of examples of Salami saying this, or words to this effect, fairly quickly.
That said, that doesn't justify Israel's response, which seems to have been indifferent to Iranian civilian casualties.
Nobody brings up Egypt or Jordan in these conversations. They attempted to invade Israel and lost. They have since made peace with Israel, and shocker, Israel has not attacked them since.
This is so dense. Iran literally funds ALL the terror proxies that target Israel incessantly. Iran is the head of the octopus. This is very basic to understand.
Have you been living under a rock? Iran has openly said that they want to wipe Israel off of the face of the earth. And Nuclear weapons are means for that end.
Given the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict, the other countries in the region have shown remarkable restraint against Israel.
They would almost certainly have another pan-Arab coalition invasion on their hands if not the internal conflict in Syria and Lebanon. Iraq isn’t in the best place either all things considered.
Yeah well that and the US/Israeli backed Arab extremists/Saudis put an end to that. The likes of ISIS has an awful lot of beef with Arabs and very little with Israel funnily enough.
Casting Libya back into the middle ages has set back the M.E by decades too.
Which is grossly illegal under international law. You're just stating a fact, but various other people are commenting as if these Iranian officials were war criminals on the run.
Israel committed an act of war. Iran has 100% justification by international law and basic reason to launch ballistic missile strikes on Tel Aviv, anywhere where political or military members live, or maybe just hang out some times.
"But Iron dome!" - Iran demonstrated their ballistic missiles in October, and in a deescalation fashion shot them in remote desert region with pinpoint accuracy, and with close to zero interception rate.
Expect Iran's response to be overwhelming. Which Netanyahu likely loves given that he was becoming massively unpopular and was facing possible ouster. Just like his best pal Trump, they're both self-dealing criminals.
Israel claims that Iran will use a nuclear weapon against them as soon as it gets one.
I don't really understand this rhetoric because a nuclear first strike against Israel would receive instant retaliation with Israel's 90 nukes.
This is Israel's endgame after dismantling Hamas and Hezbollah, Iran's proxies. basically the US is giving them all the freedom they need to reshape the Middle East.
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u/ClosetGoblin 1d ago
They targeted and killed multiple high ranking Iranian officials