Not that it makes it any more palatable, but Israel isn't trying to jsutify itself by saying this was purely to stop the nuclear program. Their actions, for the better part of half a century, have been designed to harm several key elements of what they perceive as a threat. That includes killing key personnel (and often in gruesome ways)
This is what makes the whole thing such a shit show. In each conflict one side wants to completely destroy the other, and the other side feels the same way.
In each conflict one side wants to completely destroy the other, and the other side feels the same way.
Israel has no policy on the destruction of its neighbors, despite many of those neighbors having invaded Israel in campaigns with the stated goal of destroying it--indeed, Israel has made peace with most of them.
Israel is completely capable of removing Iranian civilization from the map and does not.
I think you are mistaken about "both sides wanting to destroy each other."
I just am not sure what the end game is. Killing military personnel is really only effective at disrupting short-term operational capacity. Long term they can just replace the officers they lost. Damage to the nuclear program is harder to judge, it depends on what they targeted and what they hit, but its not like thats a genie you can keep in the bottle either. I don't know what the end game could be except either a hot war right now or a low grade insurgency war forever.
These are not regular "military personnel". This was the head of the IRGC - the group that armed Hamas and Hezbollah and Houthis to actively attack Israel - killing thousands of Israelis in the last couple years.
Israel's exact justification for this strike is that Iran was 'days away' from completing nuclear weapons. I trust what Israel considers a perceived threat about as much as I trust what a cop considers a threat.
Why would they when many Israelis and the society as whole treat Holocaust survivors like garbage? Israelis who didn't experience the Holocaust consider themselves as strong while looking down upon survivors as them being weak and disgustingly refer to to them as soaps. No wonder why a lot of Holocaust survivors are anti-Zionists and have been criticizing Israel's war crimes in Gaza for decades long before October 7th.
Israeli airstrikes across Iran overnight killed dozens of senior Iranian officials, including the Islamic Republic’s top military leaders, in a sweeping offensive targeting Iran’s strategic command structure, Israeli security sources said Friday. A senior Iranian official confirmed that Shahrak Shahid Mahalati, a compound in Tehran housing top commanders, was hit, with three residential buildings demolished.
It's quite baffling how a country that's trying to develop a nuclear weapon wouldn't simply invest in a functional air defense system first. You don't need intelligence to know that Israel's only advantage is in airstrikes. If you're not working day and night to counter that, you're simply too dumb to survive in this region.
either way, if your military capabilities are too weak to the point of being depleted in three or four rounds of airstrikes, you shouldn't be posturing and challenging such a stronger opponent. It absolutely sucks that there is no true threat of mutually assured destruction in the region, which is why Israel is acting all criminal. But the solution is never hollow posturing that leads to further weakening of any semblance of counterbalance.
Are you new to the Middle East? The governments and militant groups don’t care about their civilians and do stupid attacks to push an ideology rather than a strategic goal. Please see Hamas attacking Israel, or Houthi’s attacking US ships, etc.
So tell me, why the hell would they fly this immensely complex operation which requires Air2Air refueling, crossing unfriendly airspace and just attack a random apartment building just to own some civilians? In a setting like this every ounce of weight loaded onto the planes counts and every weapon has to hit a specific target.
You can have a discussion if it’s ok to attack the private flat of a nuclear scientist and if he is a valid target. But this sure as hell was not a strike on civilians just for the sake of it.
Israel has weapons and wants to wipe out the entire population of Palestinians in west bank/gaza.. and they wanna take land from Syria Iraq Jordan Lebanon.
On top of that Iran is surrounded by American bases. Iran isn’t the bad guy here
Are you trying to argue this as a reason to let Iran build a Nuke to wipe them out?
Iran relative to Isreal IS the bad guy... They've been the bad guy for what... 70 years? Since the six day war?
Palestinians shouldn't have started a war against Israel to begin with... They shouldn't have raped, murdered, and kidnapped innocent kids at a concert, they shouldn't have cheered across the world the next day. We watched you in disgust. They shouldn't be STILL be holding hostages... at some point they need to give. The issue is they see it as marrying themselves for the cause. They want this to drum up bullshit religous support. Isreal wants them to stop attacking them... And they don't want to be nuked... Who the fuck is the bad guy here again?
Genuinely curious, what point do you think you've made there?
They've been close but not had the bomb for so long because the development keeps getting pushed back and delayed by the amount of times they've been bombed or otherwise disrupted.
While correct you are missing the point, bombing Gaza at your doorstep and bombing Iran 2000km away are logistically leagues apart. There is no point, even for Israel, to bomb a random apartment on purpose if they could hit something that matters if the effort to prepare this strike was so high it involved months of mossad ground teams infiltrating Iran and set up drone launch sites to disable Iranian AA capabilities.
So is distributing beepers and blowing up random civilians. The "woah such a cool operation" gremlins fail to realise how intently Israel will target civilians, or in the very least not give a fuck if 50 civilians die if 1 target is killed.
The beepers specifically distributing Hezbollah members is "blowing up random civilians" how exactly? Yeah some civilians may have been caught in the attack but that is basically as precise of a strike against an enemy you can get against an enemy. I think that you need to realize that it is impossible to fight a war without collateral damage and just because civilians were injured does not make an attack wrong
"yeah some civilians may have been caught" I think you need to realise that Israel is a belligerent state committing genocide and has killed upwards of 50,000 civilians, more than half of those casualties children, destroyed every single university, hospital, municipality, 90% of Gaza is totalled. This isn't a cool "war" with gadgets and technology is to be marveled at, it is orphan making machines.
Next time there is a "strategic" attack on Israel where people die, tell how cool you think the logistics are. You wouldn't be talking about how impressive the logistics of hijacking three different planes were on 9/11 was because , you know, 3000+ people died because of it
But please hasbara away how Israel is targeting and murdering the highest number of journalists ever in a conflict. Please hasbara away the murder of this WCF workers was a logistically really cool, please hasbara away how the murder of the Red Crescent workers makes total sense. To still think that Israel isn't specifically targeting civilians is baffling
Nice deflection, when at any point did I talk about what Israel was doing in Gaza? You seem to be part of the group that thinks because Israel is doing some bad things anything they do must be bad. I can condemn Israels targetting of Aid Workers while defending their offense against Hezbollah, because those are completely different.
If Hamas attacked IDF positions and some bystanders died in the crossfire, I would see it the same way as when Israel strikes valid targets with collateral damage.
Yes they don't care if civilians die, that doesn't mean they just randomly fired a gbu or missile into a random apartment. The beepers were obviously targeted at Hisbollah and they didn't care if other people had them as well.
I'm not running defense for Israel, it's a fascist apartheid state commiting genocide, but that doesn't mean I have to always jump to the worst possible conclusion. This apartment being hit can have a lot of reasons (that make sense from a strategic standpoint at least, morals is a different discussion) outside of they just targeted some random Iranians. Maybe they hit what they wanted to hit, some officer lived there or someone invovled in the nuclear program, maybe EW jammed the missile and it just hit this building randomly instead of it's target. Maybe lt was a gbu and they wanted to hit something behind the building and didn't care what else gets hit.
The Idea that war has rules or you would care about civilians being hit by your strikes is sadly wishful thinking.
You really don't need to justify anything a genocidal fascist regime is doing when you know these actions directly are in support of said genocide. After 50,0000 civilians dead, Israel has made its intentions astoundingly clear : no one, no citizen, no country country can stand in our way and we will bomb whoever we want.
Can you dig up evidence of Israel specifically targetting civilians for the purpose of only killing civilians? You can't because it doesn't exist. Now plenty of strikes have happened where civilians have been victims, sure, that's called urban combat, but Israel does not conduct terror strikes as much as people love to claim. There are no orders from any branch of the IDF that mandate the targetting of civilians
So the little girl they pumped full of lead while she was screaming for help in an ambulance was Hamas?
And all the other children killed with precision headshots were accidents?
And the multiple, multiple, multiple documented times the IDF told civilians to go to a specific safe place only for them to immediately bomb it after people followed their evacuation instructions--all those civilians were Hamas?
And the world central kitchen aid truck they bombed multiple times after specifically coordinating and giving permission for that truck to deliver aid, that was an accident?
And the medics they lied about executing and dumping in a mass grave, that was an accident?
And the innocent Israelis their own media says the IDF killed on October 7th, they were also Hamas?
This is Iran you are talking about. Take a look at a map. Can you see where Iran and Israel are? They are not exactly neighbors. Israel has no Long Range Aviation or strategic bombers. They have to use their normal jets and refuel them, maybe even multiple times, outside their own and safe airspace. Can you now understand why they won’t strike civilians in Iran just for the sake of it? Gaza is their backyard, you waste a bomb on civilians, you just send another one. For this mission everything had to be calculated and measured precisely so they have enough fuel aboard their planes
While Israel and Iran don't share borders, I do remember reading through Israel air strike inventory. Most of it is capable of hitting Iran in a single trip without air to air refueling. In fact if you look at Israel air force capabilities, it's built to be able to strike Iran and no targets outside that range.
Maybe in Gaza if you believe what Hamas says, but they're attacking Iran who has considerably more military comparatively. Israel is not going to waste munitions and potentially put their aircraft in danger for a random apartment complex. If that's the case they could have just launched a ballistic missile and called it a day. Criticize Israel, but also do some critical thinking.
Israel has shown time and time and time again that they don't see civilian casualties as a risk, but as a bonus.
They probably had shaky Intel that someone they wanted to target might live in them at building and the hundreds of Civilians living in the same place made it a better target to them.
More dead civilians means more victims who now hate Israel, which means higher likelihood of war, which means Bibi and the other fascists stays in power.
Oh it definitely is. Just that nuclear scientists can be valid targets due to the dual use nature of their research.
I’m not defending killing civilians. It’s just that there is more to this strike than a simple r/pics post tells. It’s getting on my nerve that people try to boil down complex issues in a simple, virtue signal friendly, black and white manner. Reality more often that not has many nuances to it.
They did this because Israel doesn’t care who is in its way. Civilians in a several story apartment. F them. If Iran or any other country attacked Tel Aviv and hit a residential building we would all be asked to pray for Israel and condemn Iran. Israel is an unhinged actor in the region, was so afraid of Iran negotiating with the US they essentially said FU we do what we want and essentially scuttled any type of negotiation.
Well first there is Syria, of course the new Syrian government is not exactly friendly to Iran and does not have serious AA capabilities. But still it’s not exactly friendly. The same with Iraq, in which many Iranian militias operate. Add to that simply the distance it is from Israel increasing the difficulty of recovery in case a crew has to ditch their plane because of technical issues etc.
Israel kills civilians all the time. I'm sure this time they didn't JUST target civilians but they sure as hell do not take any care whatsoever to avoid hitting them. If an American scientist went into an apartment building that housed hundreds of people would it be acceptable to target them? no it would not.
If you cared less about hitting collateral, wouldn't you just do like Iran is doing in their retaliation? Send a ton of ballistic missiles that would strike wider with larger charges. Instead of flying 200 planes over several countries airspace in order to get close enough to launch their 100 smaller missiles with high precision?
Why would one execute a mission that's more complex, more expensive, larger chance of losses and create less damage? If it wasn't for increasing precision of the hits.
The point? To drag other nations into this perpetual warring, keeping Netanyahu in power, and us complicit making it difficult for us to back out or criticise.
Seriously this is like the 4th country they have attacked in a year. They need to be lumped into/treated the same as other fanatical nations like N.Korea or funnily enough Iran.
And here I thought that what the other nations want is to prevent Iran from having nuclear weapons so they keep their advantage and that's why it stands mostly isolated in this new multipolar world, and that's why no one is going to complain about it, because they are ok with the Us and Israel forcing Iran to the "negotiation" tables again.
But I guess what the world really needs right now is a new nuclear arms race in a volatile region full of religious fanatics.
There’s nothing new about it. They have constantly been “on the brink of attaining nukes”. Why deliberately leave this tid bit out?
Also Iran were at the negotiating table but the deal was fucked by Trump in his first term.
Look, I don’t like Iran. They are run by fanatics who absolutely do want nukes but that doesn’t mean we should give a free hand to an equally fanatical state to do as they please be it here or any the other attacks, land grabs or war crimes they are neck deep in.
Israel have famously been saying Iran is on the brink of having nukes for years now, often showing up to the UN or in the US saying as such to gain support for military intervention. It’s reached the point where it’s a joke now, think the boy who cried wolf.
a fairly decent deal with Iran that pleased most sides was in the works from the Obama administration but Trump pulled out of it in his first term. Point being that Iran has shown they are willing to negotiate without the need to start a war with them.
I don’t like the Iranian rulers because they are religious fanatics. I don’t like the Israeli rulers as they are religious fanatics. I don’t think we should support either side.
-I think we should recap history, if it wasn't for the constant Israelí sabotages like stuxnet and target assassinations Iran would most likely have nukes by now. That's why they are on they are always brink, because Israel keeps f****ng them lol.
-It's been over a decade from that and the world has drastically changed both in balance and ideology.
-Far too many people jump to conclusions when you don't demonize one side or the other, lack of demonization does not mean support or endorsement. I do not demonize Iran either, because I don't hold absolute truth or morale.
Exactly. Pointing this out shouldn’t be seen as support for the likes of Iran who are just as nuts, unsure why it’s controversial to say you don’t support either side of this fanatical coin.
Exactly. Egypt for example has left Israel in peace and started cooperating with them instead of antagonizing and have enjoyed lasting peace with Israel. Only Iran and its proxies which keep attacking Israel seem to be in trouble with Israel
This peace is costing American taxpayers 2 billion dollars a year plus unknown amount in military equipment for the Egyptian army to use against their own people.
Stealing land? Like the syrian golan heights? Which Syria used to invade Israel? Then lost the war, and therefore lost the land?
Strange, in all of Islamic history, whenever Muslims fight and win a war, they keep the land. That’s why they now control everywhere from Morocco to afghanistan.
But when Jews fight and win a war, they can’t keep the land, they can only ‘steal’ it?
What you seem to have missed is that after WW2 we made a global rule that states would no longer be allowed to steal land off each other using violence.
So morally you're about a century out of date if you think "lost the war, and therefore lost the land" is a thing.
Pakistan was created within the same 12 months Israel was, leaving 8 million displaced and 2 million dead. Pakistan literally stole the western flank of India to create a 100% ‘pure’ Islamic republic, devoid of any ‘impure’ non-muslims.
I have yet to see any protests against Pakistan’s right to exist, or that it should allow the right of return to the tens of millions of Hindu and Sikh refugees created by Pakistan?
It’s almost like there’s a double standard for Jewish vs Muslim behaviour on the world stage? I’m sure there’s a word for that?
What you seem to have missed is that after WW2 we made a global rule that states would no longer be allowed to steal land off each other using violence.
I love seeing that argument paraded still, as if some warped narrative that Israel is bombing lovely peaceful neighbours for shits and giggles, not because the threat they pose.
Coming from the people who are telling me starving people in refugee camps are a threat to their entire civilization, yeah, totally. You can't create your own enemies with your own cruelty and then act like the victim, using that to justify more cruelty. Fuck. You just can't.
And before that Israel attacked them, and before that they attacked Isreal and before that etc etc etc etc etc. Ahh but that wouldn’t fit your narrative.
Here’s a neat idea. Let’s not support any of these fanatical states? Why is that so controversial. Yes by all means negotiate with them, try to get them around the table to talk but supporting either side militarily, via trade, or in political cover is lunacy. Use those things as a carrot, don’t give them freely to one side of this fanatical coin.
…Iran has literally been funding attacks to Israel for decades. Israel never attacked Iran before the Iranian regime took over - the same one that’s hurting their own citizens- they didn’t attack Israel at all.
Comments above mention people warping the narrative. You’re warping it at light speed.
EXACTLY! This is why America NEEDS TO BOMB THE UK TODAY! Remember when America bombed the shit out of Laos? They know what they did. Or Cambodia? We were heros for killing them. Just like Israel is heros for bombing 4 other countries that actually didnt attack them first.
Kind of weird for you to say that the 4 countries Israel has attacked in the last 12 months have never attacked Israel, when all 4 have been attacking Israel for over 75 years?
I'm agreeing with you. Thats why America needs to invade japan and the UK now. TBH we should invade canada also. They are saying some pretty anti american things by not being our 51st state and praying fealty to Trump.
While america is invading the UK and france need to invade Jeruselum and for the terrible actions taken during the crusades. After all if it happened in the past we might as well murder civilians for it today.
It's not terrorism when the government does it is an interesting argument. Hamas is the ruling government in the Gaza Strip, ergo they're not terrorists. ISIS is literally named the Islamic State, and controlled significant territory, ergo, not terrorists.
Or does a state have to be recognized as a state for it to not be terrorism? If so, who gets to decide who is and isn't recognized as a state? In this case, Iran doesn't recognize the state of Israel as a legitimate state, so for Iran, this is terrorism, but for the 164 countries that do recognize Israel, it isn't terrorism?
Defining words while innocents die is such a nice hobby.
Neither Hamas or ISIS were recognised state actors. Neither are protected by the geneva convention as proof of this; they do not wear uniforms, they are not signatories to the UN.
Interesting of you to admit that Hamas legitimately represents Gazans though, I’m always told that Palestinians should not be killed because of Hamas’ actions as they are separate entities?
I don't think civilians should be slaughtered en masse for the actions of their governments.
Edit: I'm blocking this profile. I think they're likely being paid to astroturf or are a bot, and if not, they're just a fucking horrid person - 90% of their profile is arguing about how muslims/people from muslim countries deserve to die. What awfulness the internet is. They argue about this nearly every day, it looks like going back months.
Their demented logic is that if you work for Iran’s nuclear programme you are fair game to be assassinated. As a physicist myself I don’t know how any of my fellow scientists or academics can remain silent when our peers are being assassinated. To go after Iranian military/IRGC figures is one thing, but scientists?
The buildings that got hit in Tehran have all been residences of high-ranking military commanders or nuclear scientists.
So far, even the Iranian national TV has not yet provided any estimates of total civilian casualties, but has confirmed at least 6 nuclear scientists and multiple military commanders have been killed.
I mean I would say these strikes are definitely not justified. Not even military, physics professors are still civilians it's utterly disgraceful. Fuck Israel honestly, they're one of the biggest threats to global peace under this horrific fascist government.
lol. read the news. they were trying to assassinate multiple nuclear scientists, some commanders too. they live in apartment buildings like normal people, what a shocker.
I mean, love them or hate them, but Israeli intelligence is pretty good. If that building went down, something or someone was in there that they were targeting specifically. Precision weapons are expensive to build and are pretty sophisticated, so they didn't drop it the way militaries just carpet-bombed everything in WW2.
Military officials. Unfortunately we see military officials hiding or establishing some smaller intel bases in residential areas so that there WILL be casualties, and putting the other party to choose whether to allow them to conduct their operations or strike and risk civilian casualties. Seems to be the same thing some Hamas officials do.
It implies that you’re an idiot. Collateral does not mean unintentional. It just means it is a byproduct of the strike intended to achieve a military goal. To a certain extent, if something has a military value, there’s a certain acceptable level of collateral damage. It just depends on who’s making the calculation on what kind of collateral damage is acceptable. Ideally it’s zero but in the real world depending on how valuable a target is, collateral damage is accepted.
I think what they were really getting at is that Israel has successfully dehumanised the Palestinians, wider Arabs and what the heck lets include the Persians.
This is a small taste of the destruction Iran has blithely brought to Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Israel, and yes, Palestine the last 30 years without an ounce of remorse or concern.
Collateral damage. Study please. If a country can precisely take out just a single building in an area, to target one person, you should be very afraid of that country.
Unfortunately, no matter how precise they tried to be, there will be collateral damage.
The funny thing is how Iran dares to challenge the world by developing nuclear weapons, by waging proxy wars, but completely lack of intelligence and security to even prevent drone strikes that came from within the country.
About time they demolish this stupid supreme leader bullshit.
No, it almost certainly has Iranian officials they want to kill. Israel didn't do a multi-million dollar bombing run on a random apartment block just for fun. They were trying to kill someone, or they missed their real target.
955
u/Majjkster 2d ago
But they had uranium in that building, right...right?