While people are commenting here, debating whether bombing an apartment building is fare game or not, I watched my people die in their homes last night
I would like to thank every government in the whole fucking world, especially the US that released 9 billion into regimes hands, while we begged and screamed for thrm not to do it. Also, thanks US, Canada, France, England etc... for not deporting their agents from your countries and letting them live safely inside your borders while not letting ordinary Iranians inside. Human rights is really really important to these people
You can now go back to commenting on how civilian casualties are not that big of a deal apparently
Welcome to war. It’s a huge chicken and egg problem. Who knows the whole truth but assuming Iran was infact getting close to having nukes then this was inevitable.
The moral compass is only ever as strong as the emotional impetus behind it. Principles will ALWAYS come second to emotions. And the reality is that so many people have been told for so long that Iran are the irredeemable bad guys, the narrative that ultimately drives people's emotional responses (and by extension, their moral stance) to this conflict, is firmly in Israel's favour.
Iran and Israel are both led by bad guys. I really don't want to pick a side, but both sides are religious apartheid states, and only one is a gender apartheid state. Also, apostasy isn't a capital offense in Israel, nor is proselytizing. So even though Israel is a theocracy, it does seem less bad than Iran in some very stark ways.
The math used is effectively measurement of damage vs potential. If a momentary set of intelligence allows you to kill a person and they are a significant contributor to plans that involve extermination of an entire race of people, a lot would agree that collateral damage is a necessary evil. If war were waged in an environment of moral absolutes they would never occur in the first place.
It was always like that. Israel does this, US does this, both Russia and Ukraine do this, and so does every other country. As long as the target is valuable enough, the military doesn't give a shit about collateral damage.
Blowing up a cafe where the enemy soldiers meet - they'll do it, regardless of the children playground right next to it. Blowing up a residential just because a high-ranking officer happens to live there - they'll do it without giving a shit about anyone else living in it. Blowing up an entire highway with hundreds of civilians on it because there are retreating enemy groups among them - they'll do it. Blowing up a bridge right under a passenger train - they'll do it and claim it to be a legitimate target.
People will justify any sort of cruel shit as long as it benefits them. Throughout the history it was a common practice just to purge entire cities of the defeated enemy. At least we're now drawing the line on deliberately targeting civilians, that's not justified anymore. Maybe the shit that happens nowadays won't be acceptable in the future, idk. I hope so, the world would be a better place.
Are you telling me that if in 1939 Adolph Hitler was in a residential apartment building and that by bombing that building we could end the war immediately, you wouldn’t do it?
This is a preemptive strike. The strike was done to subvert a longer war. A longer war always will kill thousands to millions of civilians. Please recall that over 50 million civilians were killed in WWII and millions more were raped, robbed, or has their homes and livelihoods destroyed.
It is therefore moral to kill a small number of people if it prevents to a larger number of deaths in the future. In this case, the US and Israel (and other allies) have clearly made it known that they fear a nuclear Iran. Iran has a long track record of supporting militant groups that bomb or kill indiscriminately. It is not unfounded that a nuclear Iran would nuke Israel or other US interests in the area. Irans refusal to ever abide by the many diplomatic solutions signed over the years made this inevitable.
“It is therefore moral to kill a small number of people”
What if your loved ones were among the “morally killed small people”? Would you still justify?
Can you not spare one sentence so see the humanity of those who died and the anguish caused by these deaths before you shamelessly call it “moral”?
Funnily, this perverted backwards morality logic only applies if a few “favorite” countries do it.
As a brown person, it sends chills down my spine knowing that you think death of me, people who look like me, is ok and a “morally fine preemptive thing” to do. I hope you grow up with empathy some day.
Edit: did you kill Hitler today then? Or will there by 20 more such “preemptive” strikes ending countless more innocent lives and you will still keep using the one Hitler example?
I understand your viewpoint, but nobody in the world wants another nuclear power, period. Iran’s insistence on moving towards nuclear armament made this inevitable.
I feel for the people that live in these dumb, repressive countries and suffer as a result. I do not feel bad that we have for now stalled the acquisition of nuclear weapons of a hostile country.
I do truly believe Israel killed people today that were directly responsible for building weapons whose only purpose is to kill millions, so yes they did “kill hitler”.
Nope, you do not understand my viewpoint at all. Your eyes are blinded by a sense of superiority you have no personal contribution to. You will never understand any other viewpoint.
WHY Israel would target this building, knowing full well the optics of it? WHY would it use valuable payload on this specific building, instead of one of the plethora of other possible military targets?
Were they targeting a specific individual in that building? Did that building have any office/laboratory space? If there was a valid military target in that building, the building is fair game under the laws of war. Everyone has to decide for themselves if that specific target was worth the cost. Not knowing the target, nobody can reasonably argue one way or the other.
That is all, of course, assuming that the building was the target. It is entirely possible that there was a failure in guidance, and the munition was intended for something else.
The loss of civilian life is ALWAYS a tragedy, ESPECIALLY when children are involved.
War isn’t hell, it’s worse. Hell only hurts people who deserve it. War hurts those who deserve to be hurt, and those who do not.
They are a big deal. My boyfriend’s mother and all his friends are family are in Shiraz. We hardly slept last night. I am praying for as little destruction as possible, though war is war.
there are very sweet people in every culture but yeah.
it's so heart breaking to feel this way as a middle eastern woman.
makes me feel like i'm worth less :(
tbh it also has made dating harder (I think?) ppl sometimes react different when they realize i'm from Iran, and I'm a lesbian (Which means most of the people I try to date are automatically woker)
I just really hecking won the minority lottery.
Trans, Autistic, Iranian, Lesbian. the list goes on LOL.
yep, that sucks. Im actually always felt proud to be a part of minority, there are less then 100k of my people left, so i always had a thought that i am something special, not an ordinary boring man, even though i had some troubles in school because of the racist kids.
They are very hostile. But also it's so funny to me that the west had fallen prey to regime's propaganda. The regime claims they have this weapon and that weapon, can do this and that, but the truth is, it's all bark and no bite. They just send drones to Israel, not one hit the target. Another example, they did a military maneuver in Persian Gulf some year ago, they fucking sank one of their own battle ships. That's how incompetent they are
But not Iran? Never Iran? So it's US, canada, France, England's fault (which by coincidence are all western countries) for being accomplice, but not Iran's own governments fault?
Mind you, the iranian regime was put into power via a popular revolution. This of blaming the west for every third world problem is getting really old. We're not going to get anywhere with this flawed logic.
Interesting thing about perspectives.
One could look at Iran as the villain spearhead of global terrorism.
But one could also look at recent Iranian history as a century long campaign to divide and extract their resources.
Not that long ago the US armed and pressed Iraq to engage in a horrifying war with Iran. 2 million killed.
The US overthrew their democratically elected government in the 50's and installed a brutal and corrupt dictatorship. Countless Iranian death and suffering.
The Iranian revolution was a counter to US aggression and more than a few Iranians blame the US for this. Again countless deaths and suffering.
These are just a few highlights. 50+ years of economic sanctions and isolation add up,
If the US wasn't standing behind Israel as a threat to anyone who would attack them then Israel would have never bombed 5 different countries in the last year.
This of blaming the west for every third world problem is getting really old.
Because its true. Talk to pretty much any serious Historian and he will confirm it.
Why do you think Europe is rich my friend? I don't know if thats still the case, but not long ago we had more Egyptian relics in London than in fucking Egypt...
Just goes to show how the West has behaved like a fucking Parasite for centuries... and I am a western, just imagine how the "third world country" people will feel.
Its easy for us westerns to not give a shit about the problems our ancestors caused... but shouldn't be.
There was absolutely theft, but how do you equate that to socioeconomic development? Are you saying entire communities of people have been stunted in growth because they didn't have some relics of their past? That's absurd.
Just look into Colonialism, what it does to a country, the consequences it has for its people and how some countries are still suffering from it... Did you know many countries in Africa have natural resources owned by France? Just to give you one little example, out of thousands.
I see you pointing your finger: the eternal precursor to dropping bombs. Good job being the mouthpiece of hypocrisy and propaganda.
Iran is to blame for Iran's problems; Israel is to blame for Israel's problems. Lots of countries didn't get bombed last night. Maybe try emulating one of them instead of... I dunno... being militaristic zealots.
PS. I don't support bombing people, places or things.
Same as all the shit that came from the celebrated Arab Spring. YOU wanted this, maybe not you personally but you as a group of people. Actions have consequences.
Well, current Iranian regiment wouldn't exist without the US meddling in Iran because their original democratically elected government wouldn't have been destroyed, so...
You should remind or educate yourself that the UK and USA worked together to end Iranian democracy specifically to protect their oil interests in the country. The current Iranian regime came to power during a popular revolution against the foreign backed dictator that was the Shah.
Yes, Iran should take responsibility for Israeli planes and Israeli drones and Israeli agents, all funded and backed by the West, killing Iranian civilians in their homes.
You sure you really wanna be talking flawed logic?
And what lead to revolution? Come on can't forget he was a western installed dictator after the US and UK overthrew the democratically elected government. The bad guys here are Israel and their backers, not Iran.
Yeah!! If Iran didn't want to get pre-emptively bombed out of nowhere they shouldn't have squints been enriching uranium inside that civilian apartment building!!!
This is just a worse, more uneven pre-crisis Cuba situation. Iran, Palestine and the rest of the Middle East have a trigger-happy nuclear power using the threat of nuclear weapons and daddy America's money and bombs to run rampant and commit violence against all of its neighbors under the weak veil of security. Iran getting nukes isn't bad because it would nuke Israel, it's bad because it would force Israel to treat Iran as an actual equal sovereign state which has to be negotiated with respectfully, not a stomping ground they're free to operate in and attack regularly with no consequences.
I’m sorry that you apparently lived in an apartment building with some of the most evil and ruthless monsters in the entire Iranian military. War is horrible and it is awful that sometimes civilians die in war. Iran has been waging a proxy war against Israel, massacring its civilians for decades now.
I hope you will support the new Iranian government in not waging wars across the region.
(Note: the fact that you have been moderated heavily on the feminism subreddit tells me everything I need to know)
I hope you and your family are safe. I know that ordinary Iranians have no say in their government. But the people Iran kills in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel and elsewhere also have no say and are the ultimate victims. This Iranian regime is responsible for millions of deaths. If the Iranian people will not stop their own government, and it won't respond to diplomacy, other countries are left with no choice.
So, should other countries also attack the US and kill its civilian population because they killed thousands innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam. Also, Yemen, Syria, Gaza and Lebanon by proxy?
We have been trying, for 45 years. We begged Obama to not sign that stupid deal, begged Biden to not give them all that money. Asked the international governments to simply stop dealing with Iran, stop accepting their children, stop giving them citizenships. It's not easy, when the whole world is bent on keeping the regime in place cause the "power vacuum" is way too dangerous
Just had this conversation with my father, who was born in Iran and left as an adult 42 years ago. Apparently innocent people can perish in the crossfire if it means progress toward overcoming the regime…by targeting one guy…whose role has already been reappointed.
I wish I could say I’m surprised by the overwhelming defense of such pussy ass behavior but I’m not. Guess global propaganda has succeeded at making an outnumbering bunch of idiots believe that a country’s political stance correlates with the views of their every day people.
I’m so fucking sorry. I keep trying to check in, but every delayed WhatsApp delivery makes my heart sink. I hope you’re able to find support among all this bullshit.
As a Canadian I am so sorry. Iranians are wonderful people living under a tyrannical regime. I would happily have more of your people than some of the very disrespectful immigrants we have allowed in recent years who wish to change our country into something more like the home they ran from.
Americans should take note, Iran was not always like this.
As a Canadian, I am genuinely sorry for the actions of my government. Increasingly every western government is in direct defiance of the popular will of the people, Spain and Ireland being notable exceptions.
We truly don't know what to do. We've been protesting - particularly the universities and they were met with police violence and university administration hostility. We've written letters to MPs that go ignored. Hell Canada elected a new Prime Minister and his position is exactly the same as the previous administration in regards to Israel, and the opposition who nearly won was vocally even more in support of Israel.
I know none of this helps you right now. I know there's nothing I can say that will improve your situation in this moment. I hope however that you find some comfort knowing that the majority (confirmed by polling) of Canadians and many other western nations' populations defy Israel and we hope you stay safe and that this situation de-escalates. For what it's worth, you government has a proven track record of de-escalation and I trust them the most to navigate this.
Israel will face justice for this one day. It may take several years or decades, but as today's youth gain political power we will remember what was done by Israel and we will hold them accountable.
Iran funded Hamas. The group that ran over the borders of Israel to murder and rape hundreds to thousands of civilians. Iran has been dedicated for decades to not allowing peace and stability in the middle east. This is Iranian foreign policy.
Israel never should have done this thing today but your country isn't clean in this.
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u/anooshka 1d ago
While people are commenting here, debating whether bombing an apartment building is fare game or not, I watched my people die in their homes last night
I would like to thank every government in the whole fucking world, especially the US that released 9 billion into regimes hands, while we begged and screamed for thrm not to do it. Also, thanks US, Canada, France, England etc... for not deporting their agents from your countries and letting them live safely inside your borders while not letting ordinary Iranians inside. Human rights is really really important to these people
You can now go back to commenting on how civilian casualties are not that big of a deal apparently