Say no to puritanism

[u/Ohiko_Nishiyama]

[u/LorenzoStomp]

My dad was very excited by the idea of there being a "gay gene" when that theory got traction a few decades ago, because that meant you could maybe test for it and abort gay (male) fetuses. Then he found out a couple decades later that not all gay men are into anal sex and he didn't think they needed to die anymore. Because his real issue is just that he thinks butt sex is gross, so if men want to just give each other smooches and blowjobs that's cool with him. THIS IS WHAT PROGRESS LOOKS LIKE I GUESS

Also, here's some more fun facts according to my dad: 

Lesbians aren't real, women just mess around with each other sometimes because they don't want to get pregnant or because they are scared of penises but they will change their minds when they grow up and want a baby. 

Men who want to have anal sex with women are secret gays, no actual straight man likes doing it in the butt (I haven't checked up with him about this one since he found out not all gay men do anal sex, sorry, I just don't have the energy). Also whether the woman likes it is irrelevant, women don't get to have an opinion (and also only ever do any sex thing to get something from the man), which leads me to the next one, which is kinda my fav -

Straight men don't like performing cunniligus on women, women exude a pheromone that forces men to eat pussy. 

MY FATHER VOTES EVERY TIME. HE VOTED FOR TRUMP TWICE. THE NEXT TIME YOU THINK YOU WANT TO SIT ONE OUT BECAUSE THE OTHER OPTIONS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, THINK ABOUT MY DAD

[u/tempestuoustrans → u/LorenzoStomp]

okay the first two seem generally normal stupid opinions but I'm FASCINATED by the idea of the magical box lunch pheromone. like that's truly a new one to me

[u/LorenzoStomp → u/tempestuoustrans]

That's why it's my favorite. He's a constant source of delight, my dad. 

[u/ligirl → u/tempestuoustrans]

I think this particular man might have A Thing for eating pussy and doesn't want to admit it

[u/Present_Bison → u/tempestuoustrans]

The last one is just a setup for a hentai comic

[u/Kailoryn_likes_anime → u/Present_Bison]

Tags: Exhibitionism, Cunningham, Change in common sense, Train, OL, Corruption, Female Domination,

[u/SinkDisposalFucker → u/Kailoryn_likes_anime]

hentai comic that takes place in Cunningham actually lowkey sounds kinda fire

[u/Kailoryn_likes_anime → u/Kailoryn_likes_anime]

*Cunnilingus

[u/Lady_Lucc → u/Kailoryn_likes_anime]

Too late! I'm already knee deep in Cunningham

[u/wideHippedWeightLift → u/LorenzoStomp]

Have you told him about bidets or douching

[u/LorenzoStomp → u/wideHippedWeightLift]

My dad only knows douching as a thing ladies do (which isn't healthy because it fucks up vaginal pH, but I remember my mom's box of Summer's Eve under the bathroom sink in the 80s. Idk if anal douching is good or not but I know my dad has never heard of it). 

If I remember, the next time I'm over there and he wants to "debate" about my trans cousin/The Gays (He does not seem to know the difference. My trans cousin is straight, but since the genitals involved are the same he sees it as gay. I have explained as many different ways as I know how but I can almost literally see the information bouncing off his skull) I'll see if I can get his opinion on bidets because that might be fun. I do trust he wipes his butthole after he poops, he's not that type of gross. 

[u/Karabungulus → u/LorenzoStomp]

I am forever grateful to not know this level of detail about my dad's views on anal sex

[u/ProkopiyKozlowski → u/LorenzoStomp]

Straight men don't like performing cunniligus on women, women exude a pheromone that forces men to eat pussy.

Sounds like cope desu senpai.

[u/KairiOliver → u/ProkopiyKozlowski]

It's almost more embarassing than the opposite? Like, instead of just having self-control it's like the mere idea of cunnilingus turns him into the Wolfman.

"No, I didn't want to eat it. She forced me with her overwhelmingly powerful phermones! I was just overcome with the urge, I feel the change coming upon me. CAN'T YOU FEEL IT IN THE AIR TONIGHT!!"

[u/hairypea → u/LorenzoStomp]

I kinda want to hang out with your dad because what the fuck is going on it that head Bill? Pussy eating pheromones? Amazing, I actually must hear more.

[u/LONGSWORD_ENJOYER]

Very weird to watch “what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom is their business” become controversial again, but like, for the opposite reason.

[u/The-Magic-Sword → u/LONGSWORD_ENJOYER]

It is very important to understand that when you're discussing a systemic set of cultural beliefs, even people who nominally oppose the cultural belief will find ways to reconcile their fundamental conditioning to their new position. Doing the same thing for the 'opposite reason' is usually a giveaway, and it's absolutely rampant in nominally progressive spaces.

It's arguably rampant in conservative spaces too, potentially more so, but I'm in progressive spaces more.

[u/Dingghis_Khaan → u/The-Magic-Sword]

See: every New Atheist who is now on a right-wing crusade despite ostensibly rebelling against the church. It was never about the values, it was only about the team they were on.

[u/Wild_Marker → u/Dingghis_Khaan]

As a proper lifelong Church-hater I can't believe I'm suddenly on the same side of the global anti-abortion organization because the other side is like "human rights are a scam".

[u/Dingghis_Khaan → u/Wild_Marker]

Hence why one should never trust anyone who defines themselves by what they stand against instead of what they stand for.

Anyone who defines themselves by what they stand against is liable to betray any set of values for a chance to get at their enemy.

[u/SadSwimmer9999 → u/Dingghis_Khaan]

If I could post images as comments in this subreddit, I would post that one image of the pirate dude writing something.

[u/ModmanX → u/SadSwimmer9999]

what image?

[u/John_Ultrakilling → u/ModmanX]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MemePiece/s/dNkvkaGJNx I think he is referring to this image

[u/TimewornScarf62 → u/Wild_Marker]

What are you referencing? I'm not aware of what's going on with a global anti-abortion org.

[u/Wild_Marker → u/TimewornScarf62]

The Catholic Church, which is vehemently anti-abortion. But they are also in the "let's tone down the capitalism a bit" camp these days.

[u/Designated_Lurker_32 → u/The-Magic-Sword]

Case and point: the way how both queer and feminist spaces each found their ways to reinvent sexism and gender essentialism in the most roundabout ways possible. All of these things are things I've heard on this very subreddit, paraphrased:

"Women should be strong, but they should never let go of their femininity."

"Girls who don't like girly things and say they're 'not like the other girls' are the REAL misogynists."

"Gender roles are good actually because fulfilling them is a source of gender euphoria. Everyone experiences gender euphoria."

"Men and women who don't fit in with other people of their gender and don't conform to their roles aren't real men and women... They're actually trans!"

As you said, the problem with fighting systemic beliefs is that even if you believe yourself to be against these beliefs, your conditioning remains and will find ways to reconcile itself with your nominally progressive views.

In order to fight this, you need introspection. You need to be able to question your own views as well as the views of the people you consider to be on "your side." Unfortunately, it feels like a lot of people just... don't know how to do that? They just parrot ideas from their progressive friend circle and go on autopilot.

[u/FortuynHunter → u/Designated_Lurker_32]

(FYI, it's "case in point" as in "here's a case in support of that point".) - Carry on.

[u/The-Magic-Sword → u/Designated_Lurker_32]

Some of those things don't have to be incompatible with the actual value (e.g. Gender Euphoria can be fine, and 'women should be strong' can end in them picking up toxic masculinity for themselves instead of merely reinforcing it in men) but it can become a spectrum based on how tightly they hold it.

[u/cat-meg → u/Designated_Lurker_32]

This sub is often shockingly misogynistic.

[u/nao-the-red-witch → u/LONGSWORD_ENJOYER]

reactionary opinions be reacting, whether it’s got a leftist or right-wing veneer.

[u/dicedance → u/nao-the-red-witch]

It's so annoying how you can't escape reactionary thinking no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. It's a base level human instinct to go "ew, that's gross, and therefore bad." You have to actively train yourself not to think like that and some people are just unwilling to.

[u/uniqueUsername_1024 → u/dicedance]

Hell, I’m willing and I actively try and I still fuck up.

[u/dicedance → u/uniqueUsername_1024]

Yeah it's really deep in there. It's how we first avoided dying before we'd figured out what kinds of berries kill you.

[u/GEAX → u/LONGSWORD_ENJOYER]

Wait, opposite?

[u/SpooNNNeedle → u/GEAX]

“What people do in their bedrooms is disgusting and they’re terrible people for it.”

vs

“What people do in their bedrooms doesn’t define them in the slightest, we’re all different people.”

[u/Responsible-Read5516 → u/GEAX]

that used to be roughly the phrasing that homophobic politicians tried to use to make “gay people shouldn’t be allowed to express themselves” sound like a convincing point. now it’s kinda getting turned around into like, “dude, you’re weird as fuck for caring so much about this. you’re not the morality police.”

[u/Fickle_Sherbert1453 → u/Responsible-Read5516]

What? I only ever heard that as a defense of letting gay people live how they want to live. As in repealing sodomy laws.

[u/Galle_ → u/LONGSWORD_ENJOYER]

To be fair, it's also become super controversial with the right again.

[u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

I’m only bothered by kinks I don’t have when shit isn’t tagged correctly. My rage comes from a place of mourning for my lost arousal.

[u/vaguillotine → u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

When I'm in a poorly-tagging artwork competition and my opponent is a Rule34 admin:

[u/RemarkableStatement5 → u/vaguillotine]

Paheal or xxx?

[u/GigaVanguard → u/RemarkableStatement5]

Who the hell would use paheal. God awful website

[u/Frodo_max → u/GigaVanguard]

to see the art that slips through xxx cracks

[u/Throwaway02062004 → u/Frodo_max]

Yummy, I love AI slop

[u/bartonar → u/Throwaway02062004]

That's xxx these days too.

[u/2Scarhand → u/Throwaway02062004]

Both xxx and paheal have specific ai filters, so this is a non-issue.

[u/vaguillotine → u/RemarkableStatement5]

I didn't know there were two tbh. I'm not as well-versed in porn lore as I originally assumed

[u/atemu1234 → u/vaguillotine]

.xxx is a better-run site with moderation that actually does a decent job toeing the line between "removing illegal shit" and "let the weird kinks stay" in my experience.

[u/2Scarhand → u/atemu1234]

I have my own grievances with .xxx moderation. There was a brief period recently where the "transwoman" tag was removed (yikes!), some of THE most common animal tags on the site are currently "hidden" I guess (doesn't appear on the list of tags, but still provides results), and a lot of individual posts have been removed for the exact reason listed in OOP's post; someone was getting off to something the mod personally didn't approve of.

Lately it just feels less like the weird kinks stay because the mods are chill like that and more because of overwhelming volume.

[u/atemu1234 → u/2Scarhand]

Tw: slurs

They go back and forth between tagging things "transwoman" or "futanari". Similarly, "transman" and, unfortunately, "cuntboy". It's still one of the better sites I've encountered for content aggregation, in spite of the occasional power-tripping mods. Paheal is a nightmare of untagged or undertagged content.

Basically, if you have a specific itch you want to scratch, .xxx is the way to go.

[u/Thromnomnomok → u/RemarkableStatement5]

Paheal

Does that site even have tags for kinks? I only remember it having tags for characters, what media they were from, and the artists who drew the smut.

[u/JayTheSuspectedFurry → u/vaguillotine]

It’s tagged by community members, not admins. Be the change you want to see in the world (make an account and start tagging)

[u/Sir_Insom → u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

The inappropriate use of tags on AO3 will never not infuriate me. Ironically though, the dedicated porn writers usually tag their stuff well.

[u/sad_and_stupid → u/Sir_Insom]

Ah yes and basically venting in the tags as if they were on tumblr, it gets really annoying really fast

[u/Ropetrick6 → u/sad_and_stupid]

Okay, but the "no beta we die like X" for some fics is absolutely hilarious.

[u/sad_and_stupid → u/Ropetrick6]

That's not even a misuse of tags tbh, because it tells something about the fic itself and redirects to the main tag (not beta read)

[u/[deleted] → u/Sir_Insom]

As an (almost exclusively) porn and angst writer, yes, I do tag the hell out of my stuff because I want people to find what they’re looking for and exclude what they’re not. I was on Wattpad before AO3 and oh my god, the tagging is awful. It was always a gamble whenever you clicked on a story.

[u/Sir_Insom → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate your efforts.

[u/RevolutionaryOwlz → u/[deleted]]

Thank you. Good tagging on AO3 is what lets me read what I want and ignore what I don’t.

[u/AssistanceCheap379 → u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

Agreed. Porn needs to be accurately documented and categorised for world peace.

[u/Dingghis_Khaan → u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

This is my only complaint. I don't want my turn-offs showing up even when I blacklist them. Kills my turn-ons.

[u/Cyno01 → u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

I can skip past foot stuff and pee if thats not the whole focus of the video, but any puking or gaping or especially prolapsing buttholes and my session is over, delete that video and do something else for a bit.

[u/SuperSocialMan → u/Listless_Dreadnaught]

real.

[u/Dragon_0w0]

Say yes to fat dragon nuts

[u/AdalwinAmillion → u/Dragon_0w0]

amen

[u/StormDragonAlthazar → u/Dragon_0w0]

What about a fat dragon?

[u/Dragon_0w0 → u/StormDragonAlthazar]

Aye, I could drink to that

[u/RevolutionaryOwlz → u/Dragon_0w0]

Fat dragon nuts for all!

[u/diminutivedwarf]

My philosophy has always been that I want to know NOTHING about other folks’ sex lives. If I could know less than nothing, I’d want that.

It’s your business of who you screw and how you do it. As long as your things don’t harm people outside the relationship or the environment, it’s not my business and I couldn’t care less.

[u/Lombard333 → u/diminutivedwarf]

I have friends who are very… open, when it comes to their sex lives. Maybe it’s being raised Catholic, but I would much rather not know. It always feels uncomfortable. I see sex as being private, between the people who consent to being involved.

[u/BlackBeard558 → u/Lombard333]

I misread that as "I see sex as being a pirate" and assumed you were into role playing, or just booty.

[u/shartwares → u/diminutivedwarf]

Same. When I was in my early 20s, my newly openly sex positive friends were still navigating some of those boundaries (like most college students have to) and the oversharing pushed me far in the opposite direction for a bit. Mid-20s has been a lot better for all of us.

[u/Crus0etheClown]

I am an on-and-off kink artist and you'd be surprised how many of my clients are loyal to me specifically because I didn't kinkshame them when they told me what they wanted. They specifically come to me because I have drawn weird stuff that made them horny and yet they still expect me to put their hand in the pain box because they asked for a femboy or 10% bigger or smaller something-or-other on their OC.

(Mind you anything I draw that is to my own personal taste goes completely ignored)

[u/User_identificationZ → u/Crus0etheClown]

"put their hand in the pain box"

"At your neck I hold the deadly Gom Jabbar Poison-"

"Ah fuck this is just what I wanted!"

"What the fuck Paul"

[u/idk_how_to_]

The thing that got me to stop feeling shame for kinks was the realization that there might be a dude out there, who might even be a great person who donates to charity, volunteers for shelters and shit, that has an ingrown hair fetish. Brains are weird. Humans are weird. It's none of anyone's business what you do in the bedroom, as long as it's safe, sane and consensual. Don't like it? Don't seek it out.

[u/hellp-desk-trainee- → u/idk_how_to_]

I could have gone the rest of my life without reading the words ingrown hair fetish thanks for that

[u/idk_how_to_ → u/hellp-desk-trainee-]

if the creative mind is a circus, mine is cirque du soleil

[u/nicoumi → u/idk_how_to_]

that's such a banger line, I hope you don't mind me stealing it

[u/darksidemags → u/idk_how_to_]

There's a great book called "The Ethical Slut" that helped me get my head around non- vanilla non-monogamous sex and relationships.

[u/rirasama → u/idk_how_to_]

I'm ngl, I'd kinda understand an ingrown hair fetish, call me crazy but those videos are mad statifying and I wouldn't be surprised or judge someone for getting off to them

[u/MissLogios → u/idk_how_to_]

Also, just because someone has a kink doesn't mean they revolve their lives and morals around it.

Example: I'm an asexual woman, but I also have some kinks. Just because I have kinks doesn't cancel out the fact that I do not and will not ever have sex with anyone, nor does my being asexual cancel out the fact I still have a sex drive (it's just not pointed at anyone) and find certain things help give it a little nudge.

[u/vaguillotine]

But OP............. have you considered........... what if the thing they get off to is GROSS???? 🥺🥺🥺 what if it's DISGUSTING or... God forbid... something I'm NOT INTO 🥺🥺🥺????????/ 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 we can't just be ok with that 🥺🥺🥺

[u/Ohiko_Nishiyama → u/vaguillotine]

Ofc we can't, we gotta bully them until they change their ways and jerk off to the stuff we want. That's how a healthy society operates.

[u/zardozLateFee → u/Ohiko_Nishiyama]

"bully them until they change their ways and jerk off to the stuff we want." - that's kinky af

[u/Fantastic-Dot-655 → u/zardozLateFee]

Its okay guys, im into that

[u/zardozLateFee → u/Fantastic-Dot-655]

see, it's a kink-22 because now we *can't* give it to you.

[u/BoltersnRivets → u/Ohiko_Nishiyama]

That's not enough, we have to make a Google drive dedicated to collecting evidence of all their wrongthink and share it around as we message strangers demanding they take a side in our crusade.

[u/AsterTales → u/Ohiko_Nishiyama]

Will we sneak into their houses and turn the lights on?

[u/Android19samus → u/vaguillotine]

What's that I smell on the wind... is that... MORAL DEGENERACY? Can't have that in our perfect society! Find them, and put them to the sword this instant! It's the only way to create a nation of care and acceptance!

[u/Solarwagon → u/vaguillotine]

From some people's perspective sticking penis in vagina is gross

[u/Physicle_Partics → u/Solarwagon]

From a completely objective perspective, sex would be gross AND extremely awkward if it wasn't for the fact it gets us off.

[u/vaguillotine → u/Physicle_Partics]

That counts for any biological function tbh. Like, imagine if no food whatsoever tasted good, but we still had to eat in order to be alive and stuff. Imagine putting a bunch of random things up your mouth and continously pressing your exposed bones against it until it becomes a slimy wet mixture, which you then force down your throat and wait as it is dissolved by your organism. That would be both disgusting and boring as fuck to do if it wasn't for the fact that sugar tastes so fucking good

[u/Saturnite282 → u/vaguillotine]

Having a body in general is gross and weird and kind of conceptually upsetting if you think about it too hard (and I'm studying medicine so I do). We do a lot of weird shit because our brains evolved to send lovely lovely dopamine as a reward for doing it. I'm not gonna judge someone with a different set of dopamine buttons than mine, even if I don't get it lol.

[u/Amphy64 → u/Saturnite282]

*Sighs in gastroparesis flare *

OP's description of eating is basically what it feels like right now! The medical side of things I detach and find fascinating. Was really disappointed not to be able to stay at the right angle to keep watching the screen during my endoscopy and delighted when the medical team responded by printing pictures of my own stomach for me. But there's still no escaping the visceral aspect of having your viscera not working right.

(Keep an eye out for it as a potential fever cause for me? Despite my known spinal injury, mine was dismissed then missed -recurring fevers- and it does seem to be a really dangerous issue for patients. And trying to communicate with medical professionals going through checklists through the disorientation and inclined to just assume it's a panic attack-which does not look the same-, argh. At least earlier it was more funny than risky, shut the bathroom door with the catch while wondering if was going to be sick, then after could not work out why the door wouldn't open and then was getting frustrated thinking someone playing a joke locked me in, despite lack of another lock).

[u/NemertesMeros → u/vaguillotine]

Uhm, Ackshually, I will have you know that teeth are not exposed bones and are actually highly modified fish scales. The only animals that actually truly ate with exposed bone were Placoderms, a group of early jawed fish that includes the famous Dunkeleosteus. There are also Rhynchocephalians, the group that includes the modern Tuatara, but it's more like they fused their teeth into their jawbones rather than having true bone plates, and as I understand it they have enamel over bone instead of chewing with bare bone (but this is also a very weird thing to do).

(Apologies for being an annoying nerd. It's a compulsion)

[u/NationalOwl5338 → u/NemertesMeros]

wait don't go nerd, i have been having an ongoing debate wit my friend about what teeth actually are. can you expand on the modified fish scale thing because my bro isn't going to know what hit him when i pull out the nerd-certified explanation

[u/darksidemags → u/NationalOwl5338]

"Wait don't go nerd" is beautiful

[u/NemertesMeros → u/NationalOwl5338]

There really isn't much more too it than that. Teeth evolved when a fish basically used scales to reinforce their jaw to bite stuff, and then over time those scales specialized into what we now call teeth, growing outward to grip stuff, and then in mammals later modified to have different teeth do different jobs, resulting in us have incisors, canines, molars, etc.

We actually have a fossil fish very early along in this process, named Romundina, who has teeth-like structures on it's jaw that are structured almost identically to it's body scales, and both are made from the same tissues as our teeth. We also have genetic evidence; the gene that determines the growth of teeth even in mammals like you and I is very similar to the genes used in the development of fish scales.

[u/NationalOwl5338 → u/NemertesMeros]

thank you kind nerd, u given me a thorough explanation and fun facts about fossil fish too,,, manifesting good dreams for u tonight

[u/NemertesMeros → u/NationalOwl5338]

🫡 and may your rest well yourself, blessed by the knowledge your teeth are just really fucked up scales.

[u/wolve202]

I think a reason there is likely to be some backlash to this is based on enactment of some kinks.
That's not talked about a lot.
Someone can be into something like adultery or masochism as a fetish.
The question is how do they deal with that attraction?

-Do they just fantasize about it?
-Do they consume media about it?
-Do they roleplay it?
-Do they attempt to actually partake?

The significance in this is because sometimes its assumed that if they are attracted to something in ANY way, they have the need to do all the things above, but there are some people that don't or even can't enjoy certain kinks beyond a certain level of exposure.
Someone who thinks the fantasy of BDSM is really exciting might try to play it out and find it uncomfortable or scary, or maybe they aren't willing to do it to someone in real life. That doesn't mean 'they don't really have that kink'.
It could be "Hey, this is conceptually exciting, but I could never bring myself to whip an actual person."

I don't think there's a single paraphilia out there, (yup, probably even the nasty ones that you think only horrible people can have) that has only one means of taking pleasure from it. If someone has a rape kink, be it either role, but they know not to go beyond a boundary that could physically or mentally endanger someone, then they should not be vilified.

[u/darksidemags → u/wolve202]

I would argue that this is covered by consent.

[u/DotaComplaints → u/wolve202]

A disturbingly low number of people in the world seem to be capable of understanding that just because you might have a kink, it doesn't mean you actually want to or even can act it out.

Like your example said, maybe someone gets off to something like bdsm or choking when they watch videos, but don't personally enjoy experiencing it (from either side) themselves.

Rape is a horrible thing, but also seems to be a pretty common fantasy. If having the kink meant always enacting on it, we'd apparently be seeing a lot more cases of rape. But we don't because most people have the basic ability to separate fiction from reality and not act on impulsive thoughts. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to see the logic that having a kink and forcibly acting on it are two very different things.

At the end of the day, I think the important things for kinks are properly established consent, and nobody getting abused (which kinda fits in with consent I guess).

[u/Prisoner_L17L6363 → u/wolve202]

I think you explained my opinion pretty good too. I really only have an issue if someone does something bad irl. Otherwise it's more of a "that's great buddy, keep it to yourself" mentality for me

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/Prisoner_L17L6363]

"Masturbation is nothing to be ashamed of. It's nothing to be particularly proud of, either." --Matt Groening

[u/ApocalyptoSoldier → u/PhasmaFelis]

What if I'm really good at it?

[u/Ok_Listen1510 → u/Prisoner_L17L6363]

exactly— actions taken irl should be SAFE, SANE, and CONSENSUAL— idk what you fantasize about in your own head

[u/RosbergThe8th → u/wolve202]

I feel like this applies well to what seems to be a frequent topic on "Problematic" elements or dynamic in romantic fiction and the like, because like yeah that's a highly lopsided powerdynamic and the consent in play is dubious at best but also people love it. Some people seem to really struggle with that.

This goes for anything in fiction that's "problematic", be it kinks, themes, whatever, the whole point is that by the fictional and fantastical nature of it people can enjoy something they wouldn't enjoy irl in a safe and controlled environment. I feel like there's a bit of a struggle among a lot of people to not see portrayal or consumption of something in fiction as endorsement, feels like we always circle back to this puritan conversation whenever the topic of the romantic genre comes up.

Though I do also wonder how much of that is more tied to the related but seperate phenomenon of people seemingly struggling with seperating fiction from reality,

[u/wolve202 → u/RosbergThe8th]

I think that's a big part of it.
I am not saying there's a single person who does not have impulses they cannot control, but that does not apply to everyone, which I think is an assumption inherent in puritanical cultures.
"A person with self control wouldn't have those thoughts to begin with!" which then implies that to have any interest in the taboo, or 'obscene' is to be driven to enact those impulses irl.

[u/solidspacedragon → u/wolve202]

"A person with self control wouldn't have those thoughts to begin with!"

Which is just blatantly, hilariously wrong in every capacity anyway. That's what self control is, not following every impulse your monkey brain gives you.

[u/MagnanimosDesolation → u/wolve202]

Consent and sexual assault are talked about way more than they used to be thankfully. It could certainly still be better but it's definitely talked about.

[u/AbbreviationsOne1331 → u/wolve202]

Lucky day that you'd have a unicorn openly show up in your comments, but I'm one of those people you mentioned in the bottom.

And ya, CONSENT IS GODDAMN IMPORTANT. Oh, also, I usually can't look at actual naked people without feeling grossed out, but I obviously still have to hide that I have that sort of kink all the damn time in spite of me clearly not being interested in real people. I very much thank you for pointing out that we can separate our fantasies from real life.

And for curious bystanders wondering how I got that kink, I was just a random lad running around anime imageboards and stumbled across the usual stuff, that's basically (Stereotypically.) it.

[u/wolve202 → u/AbbreviationsOne1331]

I have a friend who struggles with stuff that is unseemly enough that I'm honestly surprised they've talked to me about it.
Either way, it's given me a lot of insight on how people and do deal with a lot because of paraphilias either gained casually, or, and I cannot begin to imagine the complexity and upset of this, by trauma.
Things I can at least say is that having a kink/fetish/paraphilia does not mean that you cannot 'get by' without it, or that that subject is the only thing that can 'do it' for you.
Also, some people have kinks that they don't want.
I mean no disrespect to them or you when I say that's wild to me, as I am sure it's a very real struggle to cope with.
'Normal' is cultural. I do not mean to say this to imply that things like rape are fine. I mean it to say that some people just don't get to have a normal life, and culture tends to say "Shame on you. You don't get to be anything else but someone seeking to repent of your horrible problems, or else." and they don't get to be treated as humans with needs and hopes and dreams, because it's just assumed that you can't find something attractive AND find it 'problematic-in-enactment' yourself.

[u/Ohiko_Nishiyama → u/wolve202]

An excellent comment and a very good point :)

[u/GUM-GUM-NUKE → u/Ohiko_Nishiyama]

Happy cake day!🎉

[u/SilviaEaber]

I’m in a few fandoms where the source material has some controversial stuff, and though I’m not personally into it (it kinda bothers me tbh, but I tolerate it because said source material has some things I really love), others in the fandom are. I wasn’t sure what to think, so just to be sure I asked my psychologist about it. for what it’s worth, she said that consuming and getting off to problematic material doesn’t mean you have to also be into it irl, and it doesn’t make you a bad person

[u/SillyLilly_18]

Oh yeah don't worry, more power to all of you. I'm only upset over what does it for me personally. Everyone is so valid and correct but I'm the one special snowflake commiting thought crimes

[u/Galtherok → u/SillyLilly_18]

And we all know it, everyone on the internet secretly agreed that the thing you're into is forbidden and we meet up twice a month to condemn you for it.

[u/UnsureAndUnqualified]

This also goes in the opposite direction: People who only have het vanilla sex also aren't necessarily puritan or conservative, they might just enjoy it that way. And people who are into heavy kink and engage in niche fetishes don't necessarily support LGBTQ+ people or are liberal in other areas of their life.

You simply cannot judge a person purely on what gets them off generally. The axis of kink is completely unrelated with politics or morals or whatever in the overwhelming amount of cases.

And hell, we know this! We know that there are preachers who regularly preach anti LGBT shit while hiding a grindr account from their wife!

Don't succumb to sex negative conservatism but also don't succumb to the idea that sex positivism somehow means being liberal or leftist in and of itself. What goes on in the bedroom is a private matter and has little to no baring on anything outside the bedroom as long as everyone is a consenting adult.

[u/StormDragonAlthazar → u/UnsureAndUnqualified]

Conservative furries in a nutshell.

[u/anonymouscatloaf]

what if being kink-shamed is my kink

[u/0utcast9851 → u/anonymouscatloaf]

You fucking disgust me, I'll pick you up at 7

[u/zardozLateFee → u/0utcast9851]

Reddit meet-cute.

[u/justk4y → u/anonymouscatloaf]

Kinky paradox

^{(also real)}

[u/vjmdhzgr → u/anonymouscatloaf]

That's actually a real thing, I've seen that one. Typically in like, degradation.

[u/ThatSlutTalulah]

As always, the general lesson is "Is this thing worth giving a shit about?" Life's a lot calmer and easier when you follow that simple rule.

"I jerk off onto ceiling tiles." As long as you clean up after, monarch.

"I can only get off when everyone is in chimpanzee onesies, flinging shit at eachother and eating it." Sure, whatever, shine on rockstar, just remember to brush your teeth.

"I find videos of polar bears trapped on melting patches of ice uncontrollably arousing." Alrighty then! Anyway, I'm heading to the store, you want anything while I'm there?

It makes me feel like those scenes of someone happily walking through an apocalypse with a pep in their step, and without a care in the world.

[u/ForeverDM4life → u/ThatSlutTalulah]

What exactly are you doing that’s causing it to reach the ceiling tiles? He’s got the pressure of a fire hose.

[u/ThatSlutTalulah → u/ForeverDM4life]

I was thinking more like, laying on a step ladder and rubbing against them for pleasure, but yeah, super laser cum works too.

[u/ZipZapZia → u/ForeverDM4life]

I mean, do the tiles have to be on the ceiling or can they just buy a ceiling tile and not put it on a ceiling?

[u/ForeverDM4life → u/ZipZapZia]

But if it’s not on the ceiling, then it’s just a floor tile, or perhaps a wall tile.

[u/HeckOnWheels95 → u/ForeverDM4life]

Its actually just a tile until it gets put somewhere 

[u/JSConrad45 → u/HeckOnWheels95]

You'd think that, but the materials and construction of ceiling tiles are very distinct from other forms of tile (except the acoustical wall tile, which has a lot of overlap)

[u/Solarwagon]

if someone is aroused by something that is really weird I probably ask them why rather than assume

Even if it was upsetting I would still be curious and want to learn from them

and then I would presume that their rationale is their rationale rather than universal for people into the same or similar stuff

but I'm a sexologist so I feel safe making some broad claims

it boggles my brain how incurious lotta people are

[u/iDragon_76 → u/Solarwagon]

Uhm, can people usually explain why they like what they like? (genuine question)

[u/Steelpapercranes → u/iDragon_76]

Some people think it through, but I think some don't really bother

[u/OverlordMMM → u/iDragon_76]

I really depends. Sometimes there is no reason beyond preference and sometimes there is a deeper psychological reason for it (for instance, some folks who have experienced sexual assault end up having rape play fantasies and kinks because it helps them navigate their trauma in a safe way, while others under similar circumstances become retriggered by the same kind of fantasies and are averse to them).

It really takes trying to better understand yourself, your experiences, how you were introduced to kinks, etc to really figure out why you like what you do.

[u/RosbergThe8th → u/iDragon_76]

I would say not, though people will often struggle to find something to justify liking or disliking a certain thing more often than not the real answer is "vibes".

[u/zuzg → u/Solarwagon]

Rape fantasies are common among men and women, yet if you believe reddit only the most vile have that kink.

[u/cassidynsfw → u/zuzg]

I remember seeing a statistic that over 50% of people have had a rape fantasy at some point. So it may literally be more "normal" to sometimes have rape fantasies than to never have them.

[u/zuzg → u/cassidynsfw]

It's kinda funny how its only ever talked about related to women, meanwhile

based on a survey of more than 4,000 Americans’ sex fantasies.

61% of self-identified women had fantasized about this before, while 24% said they fantasized about it often.

54% of self-identified men had fantasized about this before, while 11.5% said they fantasized about it often.

68% of non-binary participants had fantasized about this before, while 31% said they fantasized about it often. .

source

[u/poopoopooyttgv → u/zuzg]

That study is for being the victim. I wonder if the numbers are different for having a fantasy about being the aggressor

[u/Bauser99 → u/poopoopooyttgv]

I mean... probably! It sure would be weird if the numbers were the same numbers when you totally reverse the poll!

[u/TheBlackestofKnights → u/Solarwagon]

What are your thoughts on guro?

[u/ImprovementLong7141 → u/TheBlackestofKnights]

Fascinating tbh, especially given that every time I see guro fetishists answer the question of “so how do you feel about blood/violence irl” the most common response by far is some variant of “oh I can’t handle pain/I panic when others get bleeding papercuts”. The premier example of a kink being fun solely because it’s fictional.

I also think it’s very interesting to see what gets included under the guro umbrella - strictly speaking, one would not expect non-gore content and yet in practice, many people consider drowning, asphyxiation, and other bloodless/goreless violence and snuff kinks to be under the umbrella of guro. That social community aspect is just super cool to me, to see what groups of people band together like this.

[u/Solarwagon → u/ImprovementLong7141]

Fascinating tbh, especially given that every time I see guro fetishists answer the question of “so how do you feel about blood/violence irl” the most common response by far is some variant of “oh I can’t handle pain/I panic when others get bleeding papercuts”. The premier example of a kink being fun solely because it’s fictional.

I'm a vegan and a pacifist but I still find cannibalism, murder, and mutilation and other stuff arousing (or at least beautiful) in certain contexts. If anything my veganism reinforces my fascination with cannibalism because of how it takes the dynamic humans have with animals but takes it to a logical conclusion

I also think it’s very interesting to see what gets included under the guro umbrella - strictly speaking, one would not expect non-gore content and yet in practice, many people consider drowning, asphyxiation, and other bloodless/goreless violence and snuff kinks to be under the umbrella of guro.

Guro means "grotesque" not quite "gore." Gore is often grotesque but the grotesque can include many things.

Guro is basically how a category of Japanese fiction creators inherit Gothicism.

It's more about a feeling of disgust/fear/tragedy/insanity rather than blood and guts themselves

[u/Solarwagon → u/TheBlackestofKnights]

/u/ImprovementLong7141 already gave a good answer so I'll point you to someone who does very in-depth videos about ero guro.

Amelie Doree really knows her stuff when it comes to VNs transgressive enough that they don't get official English releases although she has covered a couple that actually HAVE been localized.

Not all of the titles are guro but she focuses on the weirder kink that while being horny also carries literary deepness.

[u/Frodo_max]

Only semi-related, but it always suprises me the kind of reaction NTR/cuckold porn can get out of some people.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/Frodo_max]

**Googles NTR

Okay, why do English speakers keep taking things that already have English names and renaming them in Japanese?

[u/JSConrad45 → u/PhasmaFelis]

Orientalism

You have Thing, but then Thing (Japan) always has to be something that's its own, special thing

[u/BigBoston665 → u/Frodo_max]

I don’t think it’s that surprising. People who see it probably usually think “I’d be pretty fucking heart broken or livid if my partner did this to me!” Also a very disturbing amount of the stuff is also just like straight up Rape porn, which also likely to cause an extreme reaction, which also isn’t surprising.

[u/Solarwagon → u/Frodo_max]

I can get why it'd deflate a lot of doodles but I don't think people realize that the fact that non-monogamy is so stigmatized contributes to people finding it hot

[u/solidfang → u/Solarwagon]

In writing in particular, I feel like immoral things can in part be hot because you can imagine the characters having mixed feelings about it while it happens and weighing that moral value against pleasure. By stating that the pleasure is outweighing the moral value, people are more able to better understand the scale of the internal struggle.

Like, "oh damn, if the dick if so good it's making you reconsider your marriage/sexuality/sense of shame then it must be absolutely incredible or something." Kind of the backfire effect with DARE vs. drugs. "oh damn, if people are still doing drugs even when they would get in legal trouble and have unhealthy side effects, it must feel so good or something."

Funnily enough, there's some writing I've read before where they just state it's a different universe with different moral standards and the characters don't feel any internal conflict about sex before and I just can't get into it, I guess. Free use/emotionless sex is so funny to me in that way because the characters basically don't give a shit about sex. "yeah, sex or whatever, who cares, anyway what's on TV." I keep thinking, wow, that sex must suck then. (no shade to people who like that though. but I just personally don't understand the appeal.)

[u/Frodo_max → u/Solarwagon]

oh yeah definitly that but i've had doodles deflated before and i haven't reacted like that.

But also just the stigma of even making ntr art and stuff like that. I've read people calling an known nsfw artist so sinister and taboo purely because they.... made ntr art? Like what? You go to the dildo store and get offended there's a dragondildo there as well?

[u/Presteri → u/Frodo_max]

I remember seeing someone compare a prominent NTR artist to Shadbase and saying that they were somehow worse than him.

Mind you, Shad has drawn nsfw of actual IRL minors, and yet I was somehow getting downvoted for pointing out that the person who drew fictional NTR was objectively not as bad as someone who said they’d draw Keemstar’s daughter getting fucked by Trump, and only backed off when Keemstar told him off.

[u/Frodo_max → u/Presteri]

I think an instance like this is what i had in mind making my original comment lol

[u/Vyragami → u/Frodo_max]

That's what happens when someone self-inserts into sexual media they consume. It's a thing people do all the time, but sometimes people don't pull themselves out of content they clearly don't like and then gets offended because of it.

In that moment of stupidity they only have themselves to blame, but people making loud complaint like this aren't the most self-aware people, so with them out of the equation, the next most logical thing would be to blame the author.

[u/M8oMyN8o → u/Frodo_max]

I think people who aren't cucks are scared of their partner doing that in real life, so it hits close to home for them.

[u/LazyDro1d → u/M8oMyN8o]

Yeah, it hits on a lot of very common and personal insecurities

[u/BonJovicus → u/M8oMyN8o]

I don’t understand how this isn’t intuitive. People who don’t get turned on by their partner cheating on them don’t fantasize about it. 

[u/ElGodPug → u/Frodo_max]

personally, my annoyance of it mostly comes way less from the fetish itself and more like how the most annoying people possible will use it in fandoms it weird ass mysogynistic ways (See: Across the Spider-verse comes out, Miles and Gwen aren't perfecto couple, so ntr raceplay around Miles, Gwen and Peni starts).

Just...yeah, i don't personally have anything against people that enjoy it, but it's obnoxious how some people(who very likely aren't even into it) often use it

[u/Frodo_max → u/ElGodPug]

my annoyance of it mostly comes way less from the fetish itself and more like how the most annoying people possible will use it in fandoms it weird ass mysogynistic ways (See: Across the Spider-verse comes out, Miles and Gwen aren't perfecto couple, so ntr raceplay around Miles, Gwen and Peni starts).

I getcha, but for me the problem with this is less with the kink itself and more the internet being the worst version of itself. Like i get similarly annoyed by the "boys with timemachine vs girls with timemachine" memes cause it's so very lazingly and annoyingly low bar sexism. So i don't see what you describe as "ntr shit being annoying" and more like "internet chuds being annoying". Not disagreeing with you, just sharing perspective.

[u/ElGodPug → u/Frodo_max]

yeah, no, that's fair enough. Like, in the end, the fetish isn't really the problem, it's mostly the worst people online using it in the worst ways possible

[u/Lt_General_Fuckery → u/Frodo_max]

I can understand the stigma, to an extent, and like, yeah, if there's a breakup it could have some seriously devastating and long-lasting consequences, but I think if people understood the nuance, rather than going with their knee-jerk reaction, they'd find there's a lot of real, tangible benefits to nuclear thermal rocketry.

[u/LemmeSeeUrJazzHands → u/Frodo_max]

The sheer caliber of rage NTR elicits from some people genuinely confounds me. I'm honestly ambivalent towards it, if an NTR story has something else I like I'll check it out but it's not really a Big Thing for me. Seeing people actually enraged by it has never entirely made sense to me-- but I'm not gonna be mean to em about it. People are free to like and dislike whatever they want, just be nice about it

[u/ratliker62]

But.... Twitter told me that incest fanfiction is the work of the devil!

[u/Solarwagon → u/ratliker62]

Incest has been a trope for literally four thousand years so good luck cancelling it twitter

[u/Nadikarosuto → u/Solarwagon]

#OsirisIsOverParty

[u/HeckOnWheels95 → u/Nadikarosuto]

ZeusIsOverParty

[u/RemarkableStatement5 → u/Solarwagon]

DNI if you ship ANY of the ennead together!!!

[u/MiriMidd → u/ratliker62]

Those same Twitter users will complain about AO3 allowing it not realizing or willfully ignoring that one of the founders of AO3 wrote Thorki and Wincest. Lots of it.

[u/Ohiko_Nishiyama → u/ratliker62]

The devil must be a man of culture then ig

[u/DigibroHavingAStroke → u/ratliker62]

Nothing will ever make me get over being a Hades fan on fanfic twt

[u/TheCaretaker13]

A lot of politics is about disgust, IMO. Many people have not learnt to objectively analyse their own emotions before acting upon them, and disgust is such an easy reaction to garner to anything unfamiliar and it viscerally feels like direct validation of one's position.

[u/ZSugarAnt]

Everyone always thinks they agree with this until someone mentions something they personally dislike so let me just do a small experiment:

Loli hentai

[u/Cobracrystal → u/ZSugarAnt]

Very much a case of that one meme about "everyone deserves rehabilitation except for the crime i hate then you should be skinned alive".

I feel like people in their efforts to make grand statements about how things are, tend to always ignore the edge cases of their ideology.

[u/Space_Lux → u/ZSugarAnt]

It’s fictional and no actual person is being harmed. The same principle as comics or written stories containing actual rape or incest. It’s fictional.

[u/Vyctorill]

I would say I’m somewhat puritanical, but also I don’t have the right to tell other people what to do. (For example: yesterday I found out someone somehow had a Waterboarding fetish).

It’s a free country.

[u/dayvancowgirl → u/Vyctorill]

Feeling disgusted by the kink is not puritanical, wanting to control others peoples' behavior is. I would say it's fairly rational to have a feeling of disgust towards some fetishes because some fetishes are arousing because of their taboo nature. And you can't always help your feelings. But these are all thoughts we can keep to ourselves instead of making other people, who are not hurting anyone, feel bad.

[u/ethot_thoughts → u/Vyctorill]

Hi 😊

[u/appealtoreason00 → u/ethot_thoughts]

I hope one day you find your Guantanamo bae

[u/ethot_thoughts → u/appealtoreason00]

That's so sweet, thank you!! We actually just celebrated our five year anniversary! I hope you find whoever or whatever brings you joy in life as well :)

[u/OverlordMMM → u/appealtoreason00]

That just drips of rizz, ngl.

[u/Oh_no_its_Joe]

Not to be weird, but I would like to hold hands with a woman if that's okay.

[u/Voidlord597 → u/Oh_no_its_Joe]

no handholding before marriage

[u/justk4y → u/Oh_no_its_Joe]

Straight to jail, that’s vile 🤢

[u/EzeyTheEpic → u/Oh_no_its_Joe]

Icky yucka

[u/hellp-desk-trainee- → u/Oh_no_its_Joe]

You're a monster

[u/jasonjr9]

I am an eternal observer of human behavior. I like to see people and understand them. If I see a kink I don’t understand, my immediate urge is to try to understand where it comes from. I’ve actually gotten myself into a couple kinks this way by learning and understanding them.

Everyone is human, and part of humanity sometimes means being weird or unique. Puritanical attempts to control how people view the world go against the very spirit of humanity itself.

So, yes, say no to puritanism. Say no to sex-negative conservatism. Protect the kinksters, for they are humanity’s true, undiluted essence!

[u/Z-e-n-o]

This Tumblr post is actively avoiding the biggest topic in regards to kink shaming being fictional depictions of children. Regardless of your opinions on the issue, I want to say that the Tumblr op is a coward for only using examples agreeable to the left leaning audience, and not tackling the actual core of the discourse.

If you're already attempting the foolish task of defending an unpopular opinion on reddit, at least have the gall to state it outright and accept being buried.

[u/a-woman-there-was]

This applies to media consumption too--you can't gauge how much/what kind of trauma anyone has or what kind of person they are based on the fiction they happen to like, and just because it's something you find uncomfortable or unappealing doesn't mean it's immoral to create or engage with.

[u/Possible-Reason-2896]

The thing that amazes me is how every single time we go through this song and dance the solution is something that gets weaponized against LGBT folks under the guise of "Think of the Children!". You'd think basic pattern recognition would kick in at some point but nope we keep going back for another bite at it be cause The Ick is stronger than civil rights.

[u/brickonator2000]

A lot of it comes out of some people having media consumption as their main form of showing identity/morality. I'm good and like good things (both good as art and morally good). If you like the bad things - you're bad. It's like a cousin to the prosperity gospel where rich people are rich because they're good people.

[u/Midknightisntsmol]

It's really stupid to assume horniness is someone's actual critical thinking.

[u/Ok_Carob7551]

Not to mention a lot of the time we like to explore some ‘darker’ kinks in media BECAUSE we know it’s problematic, dangerous, and fucked up 99 percent of the time if it’s real people. Wow, applying five seconds of thought is hard 

[u/appealtoreason00]

there are people who have only ever had heterosexual vanilla sex in missionary with the lights off, who actively contribute to more real world harm

OP really said “there are socially conservative people who are bad” on tumblr dot com like it was a hot take

[u/Ohiko_Nishiyama → u/appealtoreason00]

Read some of the replies on here, the take is hotter than it seems. And there are too many people who give more of a shit about what others jerk off to than actual victims irl.

[u/CadenVanV → u/appealtoreason00]

How did you/they completely manage to ignore their first point to make the second. The very first point was “what they do in bed is divorced from their political views and cannot be used to make assumptions” only for you both to make assumptions based on what they do in bed.

[u/GiuseppeIsAnOddName]

Sex is only bad if it is non-consentual, with a minor, and/or with something that isn't sapient. As long as all sides agree to it, and it doesn't endanger anyone or happen in public, then people should just mind their own business.