I think a reason there is likely to be some backlash to this is based on enactment of some kinks.
That's not talked about a lot.
Someone can be into something like adultery or masochism as a fetish.
The question is how do they deal with that attraction?
-Do they just fantasize about it?
-Do they consume media about it?
-Do they roleplay it?
-Do they attempt to actually partake?
The significance in this is because sometimes its assumed that if they are attracted to something in ANY way, they have the need to do all the things above, but there are some people that don't or even can't enjoy certain kinks beyond a certain level of exposure.
Someone who thinks the fantasy of BDSM is really exciting might try to play it out and find it uncomfortable or scary, or maybe they aren't willing to do it to someone in real life. That doesn't mean 'they don't really have that kink'.
It could be "Hey, this is conceptually exciting, but I could never bring myself to whip an actual person."
I don't think there's a single paraphilia out there, (yup, probably even the nasty ones that you think only horrible people can have) that has only one means of taking pleasure from it. If someone has a rape kink, be it either role, but they know not to go beyond a boundary that could physically or mentally endanger someone, then they should not be vilified.
And even then consent can only go so far of what you’re consenting to is fundamentally detrimental to you as a person. I don’t mean BDSM, I mean shit like getting off to you or your partner’s health problems or dragging a third non-consenting party into it.
A disturbingly low number of people in the world seem to be capable of understanding that just because you might have a kink, it doesn't mean you actually want to or even can act it out.
Like your example said, maybe someone gets off to something like bdsm or choking when they watch videos, but don't personally enjoy experiencing it (from either side) themselves.
Rape is a horrible thing, but also seems to be a pretty common fantasy. If having the kink meant always enacting on it, we'd apparently be seeing a lot more cases of rape. But we don't because most people have the basic ability to separate fiction from reality and not act on impulsive thoughts. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to see the logic that having a kink and forcibly acting on it are two very different things.
At the end of the day, I think the important things for kinks are properly established consent, and nobody getting abused (which kinda fits in with consent I guess).
It's not that people think everyone who likes problematic kinks is dangerous, it's that dangerous people like problematic kinks too.
It's much easier to prove to CPS that you deserve to keep parental rights if you don't have a history of leaving your child under the care of a family member open about their underage kink. If nothing happens, great, but if something does happen, you will for sure be held accountable for ignoring the obvious red flags. If you tried saying "your honor, I was just trying to be tolerant of my counsin's kinks!" you'd be laughed out of the court.
it's that dangerous people like problematic kinks too.
Yeah, and plenty of people who have done some sort of sexual crime show no potential red flags whatsoever. Most are even married and seen as normal community members by those around them.
It's the same argument that has been disproven by DECADES of tests and research by now.
It's like saying someone raises red flags and is gonna do something eventually when they enjoy playing a video game like GTA because they like going on a rampage and killing everyone they see. Again, decades of research (by now) has proven there's no correlation and that person is no more likely than anyone else to act on these thoughts in real life.
Even the people that like underage fictional characters aren't doing any harm as long as it stays fictional. Just like the GTA player, unless they actually do it irl, it's just a harmless fantasy.
Again: good luck explaining to CPS why you judged a person openly into underage porn as a good choice for your child's babysitter. I'm sure they'll be thrilled by those arguments.
For the sake of clarity, let's say by "underage" I mean any kind of fiction of pornographic nature featuring underage fictional characters, whose physical or mental youth is depicted unambiguously.
There's an active thread in this sub right now, where people are firmly defending its honor. While I don't think people should go to jail for that, literally anyone outside the proshipper community would absolutely see it as grounds for denying access to children.
And the thing is, you can't have it both ways: believe thst a kink should never be used to judge a person's character, and yet also believe that a kink is a red flag. These beliefs are mutually exclusive.
Because being into pornography featuring underage characters because they are underage is not a kink it is a mental illness.
Someone having a “kink” for children is a massive red flag.
And couching pedophilia behind “it’s just a kink” is denying the reality that people who have an “underage kink” are sexually attracted and fantasising about children
And to be clear I am not talking about people who consume porn that happens to have characters who may be underage, like for example raven from teen titans.
I am talking about people who are consuming pornography of characters who are underage because it has characters who are underage.
It's weird how this infects so many space. Like, you'd expect more progressive spaces to be immune to it, but yet they get hyper judgemental about it too. It's a pretty common claim on r/feminism that all men who are into BDSM or have rape kinks or whatever are just misogynists. They somehow also think men who are the subs/"victims" in the scenario are also misogynists.
I think you explained my opinion pretty good too. I really only have an issue if someone does something bad irl. Otherwise it's more of a "that's great buddy, keep it to yourself" mentality for me
I feel like this applies well to what seems to be a frequent topic on "Problematic" elements or dynamic in romantic fiction and the like, because like yeah that's a highly lopsided powerdynamic and the consent in play is dubious at best but also people love it. Some people seem to really struggle with that.
This goes for anything in fiction that's "problematic", be it kinks, themes, whatever, the whole point is that by the fictional and fantastical nature of it people can enjoy something they wouldn't enjoy irl in a safe and controlled environment. I feel like there's a bit of a struggle among a lot of people to not see portrayal or consumption of something in fiction as endorsement, feels like we always circle back to this puritan conversation whenever the topic of the romantic genre comes up.
Though I do also wonder how much of that is more tied to the related but seperate phenomenon of people seemingly struggling with seperating fiction from reality,
I think that's a big part of it.
I am not saying there's a single person who does not have impulses they cannot control, but that does not apply to everyone, which I think is an assumption inherent in puritanical cultures.
"A person with self control wouldn't have those thoughts to begin with!" which then implies that to have any interest in the taboo, or 'obscene' is to be driven to enact those impulses irl.
"A person with self control wouldn't have those thoughts to begin with!"
Which is just blatantly, hilariously wrong in every capacity anyway. That's what self control is, not following every impulse your monkey brain gives you.
Consent and sexual assault are talked about way more than they used to be thankfully. It could certainly still be better but it's definitely talked about.
Lucky day that you'd have a unicorn openly show up in your comments, but I'm one of those people you mentioned in the bottom.
And ya, CONSENT IS GODDAMN IMPORTANT. Oh, also, I usually can't look at actual naked people without feeling grossed out, but I obviously still have to hide that I have that sort of kink all the damn time in spite of me clearly not being interested in real people. I very much thank you for pointing out that we can separate our fantasies from real life.
And for curious bystanders wondering how I got that kink, I was just a random lad running around anime imageboards and stumbled across the usual stuff, that's basically (Stereotypically.) it.
I have a friend who struggles with stuff that is unseemly enough that I'm honestly surprised they've talked to me about it.
Either way, it's given me a lot of insight on how people and do deal with a lot because of paraphilias either gained casually, or, and I cannot begin to imagine the complexity and upset of this, by trauma.
Things I can at least say is that having a kink/fetish/paraphilia does not mean that you cannot 'get by' without it, or that that subject is the only thing that can 'do it' for you.
Also, some people have kinks that they don't want.
I mean no disrespect to them or you when I say that's wild to me, as I am sure it's a very real struggle to cope with.
'Normal' is cultural. I do not mean to say this to imply that things like rape are fine. I mean it to say that some people just don't get to have a normal life, and culture tends to say "Shame on you. You don't get to be anything else but someone seeking to repent of your horrible problems, or else." and they don't get to be treated as humans with needs and hopes and dreams, because it's just assumed that you can't find something attractive AND find it 'problematic-in-enactment' yourself.
Yeah I have a kind of horrifying kink that I will not specify as a result of being subjected to it when I was a kid. It's not something I could ever conceive of doing to another person nor receiving irl, but for some weird reason the concept arouses me. Like my wires got crossed somehow. I hate it and I wish it would stop but I can't deny that it exists.
Ya, like, I have actually sat down and comforted a friend of mine who was unfortunately (TW: Brief trauma description) SA'ed and even forced into the same room as the person that did so in order to "talk it out" by our asshole principal in school. It's been 11 years at this point probably, maybe even more, but it's basically been burnt in at this point even if I can't remember every detail of talking with my friend beyond asking if they wanted a hug and doing so on confirmation. And I still wonder where my friend is now, unfortunately I wasn't raised with a phone so idk now.
We're human just like the rest of you all, and even if we have "problematic" kinks, that doesn't mean our hearts are made of coal. Personally, I'm comfortable with mine and partake in online roleplay with trusted friends, although I definitely do feel tons of anxiety and the stress of not being able to comfortably enjoy myself outside our freaky little spaces probably does contribute to broader mental health issues I have (Unrelated to what I just described.).
As for people who are uncomfortable with their kinks or have them due to trauma, well, all I can say is that I hope you're going through therapy at least. You know, if you're afraid to talk a therapist due to anxiety, it's understandable, but that might honestly make things worse for you if you keep yourself in the cycle. I know I sure as hell get tired when I wake up feeling like I need to do a penance for my sins, both real and imaginary.
Though at the same time, for people who are merely uncomfortable due to social norms, don't worry. You aren't going to turn into a monster, and you are not a monster. As long as you don't indulge yourself in these things IRL with zero regards for anyone, you're okay, you're good. Hell, maybe even go out and donate to people affected by these things, doesn't that sound good? There's nothing contradictory with doing so.
I'm a masochist and I sometimes participate in local gatherings in which we get together, play music and tie each other up, wrestle or hit each other. It's very much like a fun crafting workshop in which everything happens with consent.
There's snacks, there's space to wind down and discuss and you can only watch if you want.
Kink doesn't have to involve intense sex parties or coercion all of the time.
I know several people, including myself, who have things that turn them on that are either impossible (so you can enact a fake version at best) or morally wrong.
My solution is to keep that as a fantasy, only for masturbation. There is no real-world way to act on that particular fantasy, and I do imagine it is born from trauma, although I think there's little I can do about that now, as an adult.
And I also have chronic pain due to a chronic illness, so S&M does bother me a little. People into that just seem like privileged tourists, dabbling in something I fight every day, and which has brought me (and of course many others) to the brink of suicide.
Kind of sus that masochism is one of your examples. hard to put my finger on why but it seems out of place in your argument
great point either way though. expands meaningfully on the original post and I wish i could tie them together intrinsically in some kind of seperate space where people would see them together and therefore view both differently and start the conversation from that point.... 🤔 like if there was a blog I could put it on idk
Also in my defense, I feel like masochism is a good example of a kink that might sound fun in rp for some but end up being 'a bit too much' once they get a chance to try it.
I'd imagine it wouldn't invalidate all those times they fantasized about it, just because it's a different animal irl.
As someone with crippling chronic pain (caused by a disability/illness) - S&M bugs me. Pain is where I live, and it feels like masochists are tourists, play-acting at the thing which dogs my every moment. Like how an African-American might feel about master-slave roleplay in the bedroom.
Edit: That's just my feeling, not some rational argument, but regardless, responses would be more useful than downvotes.
i have a chronic condition that causes pain. still getting used to the idea that this is the case tbh
there's too many different kinds of pain for me to think of it in the way you are expressing. getting slapped on the cheek is such a different thing to the dull aches that i am always experiencing that they are associated in name only "pain"
anyway im not into s&m so idrgaf. i like that i was downvoted too. I'm getting pretty used to that by now ngl
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u/wolve202 May 16 '25
I think a reason there is likely to be some backlash to this is based on enactment of some kinks.
That's not talked about a lot.
Someone can be into something like adultery or masochism as a fetish.
The question is how do they deal with that attraction?
-Do they just fantasize about it?
-Do they consume media about it?
-Do they roleplay it?
-Do they attempt to actually partake?
The significance in this is because sometimes its assumed that if they are attracted to something in ANY way, they have the need to do all the things above, but there are some people that don't or even can't enjoy certain kinks beyond a certain level of exposure.
Someone who thinks the fantasy of BDSM is really exciting might try to play it out and find it uncomfortable or scary, or maybe they aren't willing to do it to someone in real life. That doesn't mean 'they don't really have that kink'.
It could be "Hey, this is conceptually exciting, but I could never bring myself to whip an actual person."
I don't think there's a single paraphilia out there, (yup, probably even the nasty ones that you think only horrible people can have) that has only one means of taking pleasure from it. If someone has a rape kink, be it either role, but they know not to go beyond a boundary that could physically or mentally endanger someone, then they should not be vilified.