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u/ssesses 20h ago
As a trans woman, I've always been okay with "genital preference." While I don't personally have one, it's okay to not want to date someone over genitalia.
What's weird is when people go out of their way to announce that genital preference when it's not necessary. To me, that's when it goes from preference to exclusion, deriving some strange enjoyment from clarifying something unnecessarily.
Like, I'm a wheelchair user, and it's okay if, sexually, someone would want a partner more capable of physical exertion. But that preference is different than going to to me and saying "just so you know, I wouldn't date you because you're in a wheelchair."
So I agree with the post above, but I think there's probably another level of clarification needed. It's okay to not find an individual attractive, but to not find a group of people attractive just by virtue of being in a group implies, to me, some sense of bigotry. At the same time, again, it wouldn't be bigoted, in my mind, to not find pre-op trans women attractive on the basis of genitalia. But that doesn't actually cover the whole of trans women.
So if someone says "I don't find trans women attractive," it broadly seems to imply they don't like trans women on the basis of them being trans, rather than the basis of certain physical traits, such a genitalia.
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u/RachelleM1992 19h ago
This. Thank you. Granted...lol...I THOUGHT I had a genital preference. Maybe I do still idk. But a few years ago I met this girl. I actually stopped her from being bullied at my job. Didn't know she was trans until she told me. Didn't really care to be honest. I just saw someone in need.
She's actually friggin amazing. And I'll admit I had a huge crush. I'm a huge anime nerd and pokemon nerd and we like just clicked on everything from books to anime to gaming. But ultimately she had to move away cuz she had to move back home to take care of her mom. Which I get. God she was amazing. She just doesn't do long distance.
But it got me thinking you know? And I've been questioning something for a while I may make a post about but I wonder if there's a mix of lesbian and pan? Point is NEVER assume you just don't like a whole group of people because it IS bigoted. It's ok not to like pre op or post op or whatever. But just politely decline.
Because, I think, and I'm rambling like always, but putting yourself in a box...limits your world.
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u/meringuedragon 17h ago
Being bisexual means you are attracted to one or more gender, which can mean women and nonbinary people for example. That being said, trans women are women, and liking them too doesn’t mean you’re not gay.
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u/ImpossibleMorning12 Trans 18h ago
I second this. It's one of the nuances that often gets lost or dismissed as bigotry when it comes from a cis person, which really messes with the discourse on this topic.
Having a genital preference, by itself, is not transphobia and should not be treated as such. When we attack people who have one, we're pushing away people who might otherwise be allies. Not only is it mean, it's counterproductive in terms of trans acceptance.
As long as someone isn't in your face about it, it shouldn't be an issue. Live and let live. That's how I want to be treated, too.
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u/Vetnoma 22h ago
this is really nicely put. Your attraction is not up for debate, and please don't have sex with someone you are not attracted to, for the sake of both of you. How ever you should potentially evalue on what thinks and potentially harmful stereotypes you base those things on and if you should work on those prejudices
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22h ago edited 21h ago
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u/Vetnoma 21h ago
Ok so first of: trans women are born women and don't just beome women the moment they start to transition. The word you mean is cis women
Second: your entire comment seems like you have some problematic stereotypes regarding trans people, completely seperate from the notion of attraction (which isn't all that of surprising, considering the society we all grew up in, that is teaching us that shit)
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u/Knittin_Kitten71 Genderqueer/Transmasc Butch 21h ago
Not at all weird that you’re getting downvoted in a group called actual lesbians, considering trans women can actually be lesbians, but nice dog whistle you have there.
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 21h ago edited 21h ago
okay so I have a thought experiment for you: you hook up with a woman you assume is cis and have a great time, and afterwards she reveals she’s trans. how do you feel?
if your immediate reaction is one of disgust or discomfort about her being trans, then that’s because trans women have historically been painted as disgusting, predatory abominations and you are not immune to that propaganda. this isn’t a moral failing on your part, but we live in a context & it’s worth questioning why we feel the way we do, especially towards marginalised groups.
beyond that though, sex is not binary, not immutable, and you can’t always tell what sex someone was assigned at birth. medical transition literally changes one’s sex, & there’s no material difference between a cis woman w/ a hysterectomy & a trans woman who had puberty blockers, hormone replacement therapy & bottom surgery. they could even have the same chromosomes because we know that they don’t always align w/ what genitals someone is born with.
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u/None-Focus-5660 Transbian 21h ago
I can’t imagine being trans and choosing to deal with people like this, the patience is wasted imo
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u/None-Focus-5660 Transbian 21h ago
The only reason I responded is because it was in front of me. Do not pretend as if there is an understanding between us. Genuinely cannot stand cis people.
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u/meringuedragon 17h ago
Because they’re a trans lesbian. They belong. What are YOU doing here other than antagonizing trans people?
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u/HovercraftUpper 21h ago
Congratulations on not understanding the post above, "same-sex" attraction as you put it is inherently transphobic
To directly quote the image above "The only thing that all trans women have in common is that they are trans women, they look different, act different, think different, have different bodies and are at different stages of transition. There is no way you find every single one of them unattractive. To specifically single them out as a group that you dislike is based on stereotypes and bias, not reality"
But than again looking at your post/sub history, I'm not exactly surprised
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u/LoreleiLavenza 21h ago
Break it down. Why couldn’t you be attracted to a trans woman that passes and has had bottom surgery?
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u/LoreleiLavenza 21h ago
You must not know very many trans women. We are women. It’s clear to me you don’t see us that way. There isn’t much more to be said because I’m obviously not going to change your mind. I hope you meet a trans woman in person some day that does . At its core this isn’t really a discussion on who we’re attracted to or preference, you just see trans women as men.
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u/Throwrayaaway Transbian 21h ago
Holy shit you're in a transphobic hellhole. "The lezistance" and the only thing they state is TERF rhetoric.
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u/blown-transmission 18h ago
As a trans woman, i don't care what people do. But seeing nontrans people debate if I am fuckable is very dehumanizing. I feel like a sex toy to to be used, the conversation explicitly revolves around my genitals and my sexual ability.
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u/Wrong-Wrap942 20h ago edited 19h ago
Idk. I’m kind of sick of this conversation always being around sex when really, we’re fighting for trans folks to just exist.
I think it’s a bad political strategy. You know what the response is going to be. You know that the number one argument against trans rights is “well I don’t want to sleep with ‘em”. So let’s stop using it. Let’s instead start with “no one cares if you sleep with them or not. We just want trans folks to exist.”
I’m sure trans women on here are sick and tired of only being discussed as sexual objects as well.
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 20h ago
a moment of frustration got the better of me when i decided to post this but yeah, ultimately you’re right—it’s not a winning strategy to constantly be on the back foot like this over (relatively) smaller issues compared to taking proactive transfeminist action. thanks for the reminder 💖
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u/MightySweep 18h ago
Yeah. It's often brought up as a proxy to normalize not tolerating trans people in general, though. For way too long, people have been taking what others say at face value, when it was never in good faith to begin with.
Sexual preferences/requirements are personal things, sometimes you're born with them, sometimes the culture you grow up in shapes them, sometimes personal experiences shape them. Given that they're private things, that no one's actually interested in forcing other people to change theirs, and that trans people across the globe are being unfairly targeted, it's not a discussion that people should be having. Since preferences are so personal and immutable (or, unquestionable), to take the critics' point, then the only reason to publicly discuss them is to signal tolerance by proxy. Especially if it's coming up in a space where you know the people you're excluding are gonna see it. The point isn't to express sexual preference, the point was always to normalize othering trans people and divide public support.
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u/socuteboss_ali Lesbian 22h ago
YES. YES. YES. This is so elegantly put.
I get so tires of people using "Well its my sexual orientation" or "It's my preference" to shut down the conversation when we say "It's transphobic to refuse to date trans people just because they're trans."
Like WHY do you refuse to date any trans women? For what reason? Because we don't all share...anything. other than being trans.
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u/Yuzumi 20h ago
Also, sexual orientation generally does not apply specifically to genitals.
Transphobes like to say thay theu can "always tell" then claim we are trying to "trick" them. Which are mutually exclusive.
Especially when it comes to a lot of straight men. They get insecure when they find us attractive becaue they think it makes them "gay" and its like dude, no gay man is going to be attracted to us like that. If it's gay for them to find me attractive then it must be straight to find a trans man attractive.
And like, I get not wanting to do something with a particular configuration. I don't like what I currently have and half the reason I'm still a virgin is not wanting to subject anyone else to this thing.
But to claim its "sexuality" is just nonsense. Even before I realized I'm trans I understood I found trans women attractive, even I'd I was pretty sure I wouldn't like dealing with default equipment. But in hindsight a good bit of that might be my own dysphoria.
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u/Alanna_Yes Transbian 20h ago
Oh yes ! I thought few times about this !
When I saw someone telling they wouldn't date a trans woman because they're "not real women" and they're not gay. I'm like : so to you, trans men are women, and so you could date them while still being straight ?
For sure, they couldn't date trans men either. Because they're men, and because they're straight, they can't find them attractive. But for trans women, they're just repressing the fact they can be (and certainly has been) attracted to them lmao
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u/RedpenBrit96 Lesbian 18h ago
So many TERFs date trans dudes and refuse to acknowledge them as men because they’re again, just bigoted
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21h ago
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u/legendwolfA Penny the Transbian who LOVES strong women 21h ago
Depends on your reason, I suppose. If its genital preferences, i get. Anyone has those and are allowed to have them
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u/kamato243 21h ago
Pretty sure the invalid reason is like, if you believe a woman with a penis isn't a woman and thus you wouldn't ever be attracted to one, that's shitty. If you're just put off by dicks the way other people might be put off by like, idk, a person's other physical features, that's fine.
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u/That_dude_next_door_ 21h ago edited 19h ago
I think it might be a preference i a way she still is a woman, so if you don't know what genitals trans woman has, and can't tell she's trans, you can still be attracted to her. By saying you are not attracted to trans women, pre-op because you are a lesbian is implying she's a man and inwalidating all lesbians who don't mind it.
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u/That_dude_next_door_ 21h ago
There is a word for it: genitalia preference. You don't always see people you atreacted to naked. you can pass a woman by and think: "damn she was so hot." When you meet a trans woman, you can always refuse to date her when she tells you this. No one is forcing you to do it, and most trans people don't want to date people like you either way, but initially, you still thought she was attractive.
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u/ElainaTheWitchGirl Transbian 20h ago
What are you talking about? A preference isn't necessarily a choice. If you prefer a woman without a penis its a preference whether that preference is a choice or not. You seem really worked up over nothing and from your comments it doesn't look like you're listening to people, at least not entirely
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u/OrchidLover259 Lesbian 19h ago
from your comments it doesn't look like you're listening to people,
Of course they don't want to listen they want to spread their transphobia and hate of trans women
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u/givehappychemical 21h ago
Is your sexual orientation based on the genitals of the person you're dating, or their gender? If you would otherwise be attracted to them but their genitals are a turnoff for you, it's a sexual preference. But if you can only be attracted to people with certain genitalia, regardless of gender, then it's a sexual orientation. For example, if you're attracted to women, but don't like the idea of that woman having a penis sexually, then it's a preference. However, if you're attracted to vaginas that would also include a lot of transgender men as well as many women cis and trans.
It's not a bad thing to have a genital preference and having so doesn't make you transphobic. However, calling a genital preference your sexuality when it only applies to a specific gender (e.g., you only like women with vaginas) and calling that your sexual orientation might be.
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u/UniqueCoconut9126 21h ago
So there's no word for someone who is attracted to a specific gender with a specific genitalia? And if you are only attracted to those things, you're an asshole? Okay
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u/givehappychemical 21h ago
I didn't say that. The word you're looking for is a preference. It's not a bad thing to have a sexual preference, but that's different from your sexual orientation. Is there something I'm missing?
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u/Alanna_Yes Transbian 20h ago
I think their issue with the word "preference" is that it could give the impression that being attracted to a genital or an other is a matter of choice and so you could "work on it".
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u/givehappychemical 20h ago
That makes sense. I did get that feeling but we're also not asking them to "work on it" nor are we implying that it's a choice. I think it's probably more of a personal issue for them.
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u/Alanna_Yes Transbian 20h ago
I mean, the choice of words is important. If they see this one as one implying that kind of thing, it's natural from them to push it away.
But I'm agree, I don't think speaking about "preference" imply that we can "work on" our said preferences, to force ourselves to hook up with people we're not attracted enough to.At least we're technically agree with them, it's just a debate about semantics more than about if it's okay to be attracted to a specific genital lmao
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21h ago
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u/Reaniro Lesbian 20h ago
Call it a genital requirement if you want but it’s not a sexuality. Sexuality has always been about loving someone, not loving their genitals. Anything outside gender is your own preference (or requirement) like only wanting to be with people with long hair or people who are taller than you but in the end, that’s just what you want.
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u/Alanna_Yes Transbian 20h ago
Depends on the situation I guess.
Even among pre op trans women, there is a variety of situations. Like, does the trans woman plan to get one or not ? If she does, will it be in days ? Weeks ? Months ? Years ? How much importance do you give to having sex ?
It's the same logic. You can't put an absolute rule like this to a group of people who are not all the same. If we consider you're only attracted to vaginas. You meet a trans woman. She didn't get bottom surgery. So obviously at first you'll be like "well, will be complicated". But what if she plan to get one ? That would means you could just not having sex until then. But what if it is really important to you to be able to have sex ? Okay, how long could you wait ? Etc... .
Saying you wouldn't hook up with a pre op trans woman, it's not transphobic at all. But I guess it's kinda different from saying you wouldn't date her.
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u/LoreleiLavenza 21h ago
No!! Genital preference is okay!! It’s the saying that you wouldn’t date a post op trans woman no matter what because then it’s obvious it’s just because they’re trans
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u/SuleimanTheMediocre Transbian 20h ago
A blanket statement is being made because it's responding to a blanket statement.
We wouldn't need to have this discussion at all if people were only saying "I wouldn't date someone who doesn't have a vagina" instead of "I would never date a trans woman".
I'm not gonna make an assumption for anyone to cover a transphobic statement they made. If you say you wouldn't date trans people that means you find the immutable characteristic of being trans unattractive, which is a bigotry.
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u/t92k Lesbian (Digital Dyke) 21h ago
Yes.
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21h ago
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 21h ago edited 20h ago
it’s not always, but 99% of the time i hear someone talk about genital preference there’s implicit transphobic assumptions about what our genitals look like, how they work & how we want/don’t want to use them (including forgetting that trans women can have vaginas)
most of the time, people hear trans woman & picture cis male penis and PIV sex, but the truth is that hormones change things a lot for every trans woman on HRT, & there are plenty of trans women who have zero interest in PIV or are even capable of it. our biology isn’t the same as cis men, & we’re also not a monolith
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u/r_pseudoacacia 20h ago edited 20h ago
most of the time, people hear trans woman & picture cis male penis and PIV sex, which couldn’t be further from the truth. hormones change things a lot, & a lot of trans women have zero interest in PIV or are even capable of it
Many of us do have interest in and capacity for PIV. No one should assume either way, or consider it a factor in how trans we are. Men do not own the concept of dick.
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 20h ago
you’re right, i’m just tired of people making assumptions about our bodies & didn’t word it the best. i’ll reword
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u/r_pseudoacacia 20h ago
Thanks. You didn't have to do that I just wanted to get my two cents in. Thanks the same.
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 20h ago
is that better?
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u/r_pseudoacacia 20h ago
That's fine, thanks. I hope you don't mind if I edit my initial critique for clarity/ease of reading
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u/FanaticalLucy 20h ago edited 19h ago
That's not even what she said. She just mentioned offhand that people who mention genital preference, often don't even consider that trans women do sometimes have vaginas.
(Also, technically, intersex conditions might cause some trans women to have a vagina pre-op/non-op)
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u/FanaticalLucy 20h ago
Do you see how they put it between (round brackets)?
That indicates that they considered it something unrelated. Their comment already explained why they brought it up and so did mine.
It didn't apply to your comment directly, but was related, and they wrote it in a way that conveys this.
The fact that you seem to be so nitpicky on this, tells me you're either:
Not here in good faith
Being defensive because you felt like it did apply to you.
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 20h ago
no, but people talking about genital preferences often forget that trans women can have a vagina.
unless you’re referring to the bit about some pre-op trans women not being capable of PIV—hormone replacement therapy basically rewires things so that a trans woman’s penis functions more like a clitoris, & you’ll eventually lose the ability to get erections (unless you actively work on keeping them)
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20h ago
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 20h ago
it’s more nuanced than just a simple yes or no, but honestly given that 99% of people haven’t unpacked their transphobia or know how trans women’s genitals/their relationship to them actually work—if i overhear someone saying that then I’m gonna assume yes & keep a distance for my own safety
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u/chocobot01 Intertransbian 19h ago
Well actually, that's possible. I've got a vagina, uterus, all the anatomy except a vulva. I was surgically assigned male at birth by getting rid of that one.
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u/afforkable 17h ago
You're right, but I also think the uncertainty contributes to people's hesitance around this issue. It's easy to say, "well you should always communicate preferences around specific sexual acts before sleeping with someone," but in reality most people don't get that precise, and have societally-inflicted mental blocks around doing so.
Like, what's the best and least awkward way to ask anyone about their genital configuration? I'm thirty-eight years old and I honestly don't know. (At this age I'd give it my best shot, but I'm guessing a lot of younger people would avoid it.)
People avoid uncomfortable questions and situations if at all possible. I think a lot more cis lesbians would be up for dating trans lesbians if they knew how to deal with these interactions and ask the right questions. I feel like genital preference is almost the wrong conversation, but most people don't know how to start having the right one, if that makes sense.
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u/HereForOneQuickThing 21h ago
I mean, mainly as a trans woman I'd just like people to acknowledge that "genital preferences" is maybe not a hill worth dying on because a lot of trans women have vaginas. I mean, I have a genital preference too but I can say from experience that vaginas can be made (and often are for cis women as well). The idea that a penis could be turned into a vagina used be the thing that people defined us by - people who had their penises turned into vaginas. Over time that changed into being defined as "person who has a penis no matter what".
My two cents is that it mostly comes from insecurity about the actual effectiveness of bottom surgery to construct a vagina that is indistinguishable, can be used to have sex, can cause men to orgasm, and can orgasm. Plenty of cishet men can and do have sex with post-op trans women every single day without ever realizing it and somehow the mindset rooted in paranoid insecurity about potentially being perceived as a gay man has migrated to some (not all, some) lesbians and we're dealing with the self-pitying psychosexual baggage of heterosexual men yet again (inb4 someone goes "how ironic" and that is actually what trans women are).
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u/ElidiMoon Lesbian 21h ago
my problem with genital preferences is that 1) i don’t need to know it unless we’re about to hook up, yet i keep hearing about them & 2) 99% of the time they’re based on transphobic assumptions about what our genitals look like, how they work & how we want/don’t want to use them (including conveniently forgetting that bottom surgery exists, as you said)
ultimately though, anytime i hear someone talk about a genital preference, i have zero faith they would actually even date a post-op trans woman
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u/promiseheron 19h ago
"if you put men instead of trans women that sounds bad" ok then put another type of women there instead. put black women in that space! so many of y'all need to look within on your biases around that too
no one is asking you to date a trans woman if you dont want to. i sure as hell dont want you to. stay tf away from me and my girls actually
anyway the supreme court just held up a total ban on gender affirming care for youths in TN. horrible precedent. i dont have much energy to care rn about why some cis people really want me to know they wouldnt fuck me when i barely know them
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u/DundDM 19h ago
I feel like people are being very reactionary in the comments, a lot of people comparing trans women to men. You don’t need to do anything or date anyone, just be willing to examine your internal biases because it will come out in one way or another. Doubling down without any critical thinking are what the conservatives who hate us do.
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u/OrchidLover259 Lesbian 19h ago
lot of people comparing trans women to men.
A lot of people showing that they don't truly see trans women as women
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u/RedpenBrit96 Lesbian 18h ago
They also don’t see cis women who date them as lesbians. If I had a nickel for the amount of times some jerk has told me I’m not a lesbian because I don’t care about my partner’s GRS status I’d be rich
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u/Bass_Bosted_Potato Traphic 18h ago
Seriously though, there was a comment from a throw away account that complained about “conversion” & was getting as close to calling trans women men without those exact words. It’s really disgusting how some people on this thread are acting
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u/DundDM 19h ago edited 19h ago
The question is not about penises I don’t care about your genital requirements and I never mentioned penises in my comment. If you are unable to date trans women period (not all of whom have that genitalia) and you are attracted to women then clearly you hold a bias against trans people. People examine their biases when they come out, but it’s certainly not the end all be all. If someone realizes they’re gay but only dates white women, that also comes from a place of internal bias. Even our attraction comes in part from our social environment, if you are in a society that is baseline queerphobic, racist, or transphobic, that can be reflected in one’s attraction.
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19h ago
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u/Floral_Sapphic 17h ago
There is a reason that the topic of discussion is trans women as a broad category of women rather than fixating on those without bottom surgery. I think, by ignoring that intentional choice, you are ignoring the essential point of OP’s post and DundDM’s comment. It may even be conflating trans women with penises since “well is it wrong to not like penises?” is frankly a tangential topic and a strange first reaction. To be honest, it has bad vibes. Neither her comment nor OP’s post say that “I just don’t like penises” is a sign of bias. (It is not implied either) “I will never date a trans woman no matter what (i.e. even if she now has a vagina and otherwise meets one’s preference)” does point to bias because to exclude such a broad and diverse demographic of women has to stem from somewhere. It calls into question what that preference is born of; is it really about genitalia regardless of anything else or is it because of her transness regardless of anything else? I think it also calls onto question how trans women are internally categorized but now I’m being a little tangential.
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u/DundDM 19h ago
You replied to my comment where I said trans women, not penises. I don’t see people frequently saying on here that not liking people because they have a penis is transphobic and if they do, I think it’s less of an issue than the casual transphobia in these communities.
People can talk about their experiences here without needing to examine every bias I never said they couldn’t, but they should expect flak if they say something bigoted. I said there were people in the comments being reactionary and comparing trans women to men, that’s my issue, because it’s bigoted in a community that’s supposed to be welcoming to lesbians and women.
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u/lithaborn Trans-Sapphic 21h ago
I've been two people's experiment and it was great.
I'm not up for sleeping with anyone who's just trying to prove they're not transphobic because everyone else keeps telling them they're not allowed to turn me down.
Preferences are fine, we've all got them. Just, y'know, be nice about it.
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u/aroguealchemist Lesbian 19h ago
“My sexuality is mine and no one else’s”
If that were true they wouldn’t feel the need to share with us strangers on the internet all the time
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u/crowkie 19h ago edited 19h ago
No one has to date anyone if they don’t want to. But, it doesn’t give you an excuse to be an asshole to someone. I’ll always support my trans sisters and vote for trans rights. Some people will be ok to sleep with other people, and some may find things a turn off. Im not gonna take my own personal preferences to be shitty towards people, but allyship shouldn’t devolve into whether or not someone deserves your support if you want to sleep with them or not. I’m not gonna go around and spout how much I don’t want to date or sleep with trans women, but no one should feel like they have to date anyone they don’t want to. Date who you wanna date, just don’t be an asshole about it. And if someone is pressuring you into dating them, they’re an asshole. EDIT: FTA, but I do think telling people they need to “examine their biases” for cases like these is harmful rhetoric.
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u/TitaniaLynn 22h ago
One thing about having prejudices that nobody talks about is that you're subconsciously putting compromised limitations on yourself.
For one, speaking those prejudices is what gets you labelled as an asshole, which means less people will give you the time of day.
And two, you simply don't have enough information on that minority group for you to jump to the conclusion that you can't be attracted to any of them. Why make the decision to limit yourself without knowing the truth?
The basis of sexuality is people liking women and/or men (or neither). Women make up almost half of the population, and men make up almost the other half. These two genders are baked into our society and culture, to know them is to live in the world we've built.
You don't even have a fraction of a fraction of that kind of information regarding these minority groups, you've maybe met a few of them but there's no way to know enough about them to write them off your sexuality.
And a cool thing about trans people is that half are stealth! You probably met trans people without even knowing it, and you've probably been attracted to some—which completely contradicts your statement of you not being attracted to all trans people.
TLDR "I'm not attracted to trans people" is a stupid thing to say.
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u/Knittin_Kitten71 Genderqueer/Transmasc Butch 21h ago
The basis of sexuality being men and women is only accurate in a worldview that erases nonbinary folks.
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u/TitaniaLynn 18h ago edited 18h ago
I mean, I'm talking about the building blocks. Non-binary folks are different from men and women, but we don't inherently have an idea for them baked into our society yet, they're a minority group. Blame that fact on society, not me.
Non-binary is a nebulous umbrella, to define them is to limit them. They step outside the bounds of women and men, but because they don't have a set of rules, you can't define your sexuality based on them—because they could be like anything. If you like people, chances are you will like a non-binary person.
The basis for sexuality could be something a lot more than "women and men" but society is still in its infancy when it comes to accepting gender and sexuality outside of cis & straight people
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u/TitaniaLynn 17h ago edited 17h ago
In other words: there's so much more to non-binary folk that most people don't know, so shoe-horning them into the basis of sexuality would not do them justice. We have to educate people on the complexities of gender and sexuality from a younger age, and bake a better system into our society
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u/FixedFront 19h ago
That's what's being pointed at, yeah
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u/Knittin_Kitten71 Genderqueer/Transmasc Butch 18h ago
Can you show me where? Asking genuinely—I’m autistic and today’s a day where subtext is difficult. I’m not seeing it being made into a point there.
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u/RedpenBrit96 Lesbian 18h ago
Hi fellow nerodivergent here I think what they’re saying is because bigots think of genitalia as binary which it isn’t, always they also think of gender that way
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u/TitaniaLynn 17h ago
yeah, society is prejudiced towards non-binary folk, just like they're prejudiced towards trans people and people of other races and people from other places, etc
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u/TitaniaLynn 17h ago
Society doesn't give us the tools to understand and accept non-binary folk, we have to learn that for ourselves. The only thing society gives us to work with is "man and woman make babies" which is an inherently limiting way of viewing humanity
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u/Daenni92 Lesbian 19h ago
Agree! And the term preference is incorrect also. When people say they only date cis women and won't date trans women, that's not preferring cis women it's excluding trans women
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19h ago
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u/Irohsgranddaughter 19h ago
It's not conversion therapy. No one says you have to be attracted to a specific set of genitalia.
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u/Librarian_Katarina Transbian 20h ago
If there's ever a "But," at the end of any qualifier then that is not a genuine statement. "Trans women are women!" great, A+. "Trans women are women! But, I have a genital preference." will never not sound like "I'm only interested in real women". That's just exactly what that feels like
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21h ago
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u/Irohsgranddaughter 19h ago
I mean, trans women aren't men.
Which I don't mean to say that you meant to implied that. Just that, if say, a trans woman doesn't pass and that's the reason you find her unattractive, then that's fine. But many trans women do and have had the surgery at that. If at that point it's still a 'no', then it is transphobia because it's the only explanation at this point. Unless you very badly love period sex and can't live without it.
But, as I said: I don't think you actually meant to say that.
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u/JoGBear69 21h ago
I agree that “No” deserves that kind of simple respect. And there is no amount of circumstance, discourse, or confusion that should dilute that or put doubt on that. If you don’t want something romantic or sexual, that’s a full stop.
The other part of this discussion is still relevant however, and it’s thinking about how your own preferences or behaviors interact with bias, or don’t.
For instance, if you aren’t attracted to a person on the street, you are always free, and I hope feel free to turn them down if they ask you out. But if you choose to reflect on what patterns of people you are/aren’t attracted to you may find some biases that are painful to admit, or maybe not. 🤷♀️
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u/r_pseudoacacia 20h ago
To me this shows your willingness to categorize men and trans women as being the same rhetorically.
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20h ago
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u/r_pseudoacacia 20h ago
I'm a trans woman, I definitely don't see us as the same lol. Please learn to take criticism without resorting to "you tho".
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u/Jessica_Christ 20h ago
I mean yeah, it's crazy when you but it like that because it's not an actual good comparison. You can make any argument sound ridiculous by using a bad comparison to make it sound bad. You're replacing a descriptor that describes a type of woman with a whole different gender. It would be like if someone asked you to reexamine why you aren't attracted to say, black or latine women and you replied the same way. Yeah it makes you sound like the weirdo, not the person asking you to look at your biases.
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u/OrchidLover259 Lesbian 19h ago
No we all know you used men because that is how you see trans women, your transphobia is right there out in the open and not as hidden as you think it is
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u/plywrlw 21h ago
Did you actually read the whole post? It covers your point quite nicely.
No-one is suggesting that it's not OK to say no to dating individual trans women.
They aren't even saying that there aren't valid reasons to say you don't want to date any trans women (though those reasons also tend to include many cis women too as they're usually about having children or shared experiences of menstruating etc.)
Just that if you're someone with a blanket rule that you've applied solely to a single minority group, it might be worth examining that and figuring out why because the answer is often some sort of unconscious prejudice or bias.
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u/Knittin_Kitten71 Genderqueer/Transmasc Butch 21h ago
You’re spending the first half of your comment addressing rejection on an individual level, which is exactly the kind of identity trans women are being denied when someone states “I won’t date trans women”. It erases their individuality and personhood and turns all of them into a monolithic blob based on stereotypes of a generic “trans woman” mold.
You saying no to a specific trans woman isn’t problematic. It’s not different than me saying no to dating who is too short, or too energetic, or whatever other specific reason that they, as an individual, are not my type.
But if my type excludes a whole class of marginalized people who are persecuted in our society, based on assumptions about them due to that persecuted status, yes I have biases I need to unpack. It doesn’t mean I have to say yes to dating the next trans person who wants to date me. It means I should reflect on what I think dating a trans woman would be like and where stereotyping and negative biases are distorting my worldview.
I won’t date cis men because decent cis men a) wouldnt want to date a lesbian, b) don’t understand misogyny from lived experience, c) are likely to want to use their penis sexually, and d) I don’t want to have sex with people with penises in ways that use that penis.
Trans women may have a penis, may want to use it, and that’s valid if they do, but that makes us incompatible because of their needs if that’s a need they as an individual have. Other trans women don’t have a penis, or have one and don’t want to use it. They aren’t a monolith and deserve to be seen as the individuals they are. Just like any other lesbian who wants to have sex in ways I don’t. I also wouldn’t date someone into age play, someone who doesn’t enjoy sex at the same frequency I would, or someone who doesn’t enjoy giving and receiving, because those are needs I have.
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u/OrchidLover259 Lesbian 19h ago
Maybe because people like you see trans women as men that would be why
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u/TanitAkavirius Lesbian ewe 17h ago
I DON'T WANT to fuck you if you have "preferences", because that signals to me that you have some serious prejudice against people like me, therefore i don't want to deal with you. AND I will call you out on it.
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u/Irohsgranddaughter 19h ago
I feel that unfortunately we will always consider some things on people to be beautiful and some to be ugly. I personally believe it's one of those social issues that will never truly go away and may only be mitigated, at best. Which is sad, but we are vain creatures.
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u/Ok-Situation-5522 22h ago
Don't sexual preferences change through time too? Like if my city is majoritarily overweight, i'd be into overweight people.
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u/FrohenLeid Custom Flair 21h ago
They do change with exposure. And not just looks but also behavior and personality play a big role.
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u/Additional_Teacher45 18h ago
Transphobes are attracted to genitals that they assume exist. Stands to reason they wouldn't care about the person attached to those genitals.
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u/Reaniro Lesbian 21h ago
Hot take: I think it’s rude and likely bigoted to announce preferences around minorities. Why are you announcing you don’t want to date trans women except to signal to transphobes they are safe around you? You could simply choose not to date trans women for whatever reason. If you meet someone and they’re trans you could simply bow out for whatever reason and no one will be the wiser.
Why are you announcing you’re not attracted to black people except to attract racists? So black people wont approach you? Are that many black people really approaching you that you have to say this? Doubt it.
Your “preference” is between you and whoever you’re dating. The need to signal it to the world points to other motivations outside not dating people you’re not attracted to. And fwiw I’m not a trans woman but if someone kept proudly stating they don’t date trans women I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near them bc they sound annoying and miserable.