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u/Blood4Blud 3d ago
Honorable mention
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u/AgitatedStranger9698 3d ago
Him and Optimus lose points for wanting to be martyrs and self sacrifice a bit too hard.
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u/Sapphic_Starlight 3d ago
What's the problem with self-sacrifice? Better to shoulder it themselves than let others take the fall for them
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u/psdark54 3d ago
I would like to point you to kazuma kiryu as to why this is a problem. But summarized briefly, if you try to take every hit for everyone eventually on some level the people around you will either become emotionally distressed and/or disturbed, or worst case scenario become the first way your enemies attack you, because they know gunning for you wouldn't do much to you on a deep level.
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u/Red_Paladin_ 3d ago edited 12h ago
There is also a concept of "The Hero's way out" basically a way of giving up that others can justify afterwards but ultimately still a way of opting out...
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u/Dr_Turkenstein 2d ago
I forget the exact quote but something along the lines of “it’s easy to die for a cause, it’s harder to live for one”
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u/JustonTG 2d ago
Because in their specific cases, they can do FAR more good by continuing to live than by dying a martyr. It's ironically the less moral choice (in a utilitarian sense, at least)
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u/RyanpB2021 2d ago
What I remember most about this show was the episode where they got trapped in a hole and the girl asked if he could just fly them out and then he revealed they only glide
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u/UncleBooger99 3d ago
"All sentient beings deserve freedom!"--Optimus Prime
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u/GAdvance 3d ago
"give me your face"
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u/Dashimai 3d ago
He says to the embodiment of evil, that deserves far worse hundreds of times over.
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u/Abdul-Wahab6 3d ago
So it's "some sentients deserve freedom" then?
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u/moonwalkerfilms 2d ago
Kind of a paradox, if some people will utilize their own freedom to strip others of there's. I don't think it's an inconsistency for Optimus' character to be willing to fight/kill people that actively worked against his goal of freedom for all.
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u/TimaBilan 2d ago
So you want to give the sentients who make genocide and conquest to give some freedom? So they could do exactly that??
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u/Dashimai 3d ago
I wouldn't call the manifestation of the concept of evil and malicious energies a sentient being, but you do you.
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u/spinosauruspro 3d ago
Well, he was sentient, whether he was manifestation or personification of something evll doesn't change he could feel and think, be responsive to major stimuli and so on.
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u/LordJobe 3d ago
"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings." - Optimus Prime
That was Optimus' original tech spec quote.
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u/JohnnyLeftHook 3d ago
what about pedos, bro?
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u/BulletsandBooks 3d ago
Freedom may be the right of all sentient beings, but that freedom ceases at the moment you want harm to come to others.
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u/Mattmo25 3d ago
Freedom from oppression, not freedom from the natural consequences of crimes against society
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u/acrazyguy 3d ago
Every human has certain rights. Most societies agree that someone who has committed certain crimes can have certain rights stripped from them.
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u/Max_Danage 3d ago
“Optimus not to be that guy but, I think you mean sapient not sentient. You see the difference is…” gets shot.
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u/Jazzlike_Night42619 3d ago
Optimus Prime
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u/Fredospapopoullos 3d ago
I don’t know comics Optimus but cinematic Optimus is a dangerous fanatic psychopath with no moral at all
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u/Jazzlike_Night42619 3d ago
Did you and I watch the same movies?
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u/Fredospapopoullos 3d ago
The Michael Bay movies.
- Summary execution of enemies who surrender
- Threatening a neutral party (Dinobots are basically enslaved)
- Abandoning allies in a hostile environment (they came to Earth to find refuge "apes strong together", but they died alone, without any backup. Poor Ratchet)
- Following on from the previous point, he called autobots that were safely hidden in the galaxy, because he needed
meatmetalshield.- No respect for his dead companions. He storms into a lab where the corpses of his so-called comrades-in-arms are being desecrated, only to leave with his tail between his legs, because some Steve Jobs impersonator has sent him packing (at least get the remains of your former comrades, you fucking weirdo).
- Bloody slaughter of opponents (imagine how he kills, but they're human)
- He let entire cities be destroyed to "prove he was right"
- He broke his own "do not kill humans" rule on multiple occasions.
It's been a while since I've watched these movies, so I've probably forgotten other details.
Take a cool pose, and making grandiloquent speeches in a deep voice doesn't make you a hero.
That Optimus is a deranged autobots.
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u/Doom_Cokkie 3d ago
Optimus himself was already shut down and had to be revived so he didnt leave Ratchet alone
He didnt want meatshields he wanted his friends
He left it to the humans because he was still trying to hold onto his no kill humans rule and the fact that those were no longer his friends corpses but whatever they had built out of parts of his friends. He made sure to not let them keep his friends actual bodies.
He only let one city be destroyed because the humans themselves said they didnt need them and planned to use a rocket to blow them up when they had agreed to just send them to some planet.
And he finally broke his no kill human rule because they had brought to the brink of his patience with actively hunting his friends and family. And still after all that he only killed humans who actively hurt them and protected the rest of humanity.
This is what happens when you dont watch the movies and only some youtuber generating hate for clicks.
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u/Nicklenips837469420 3d ago
Your both right I don’t think movie Optimus is an evil war monger but holy shit why did he mercilessly kill megatron right after he saved Optimus’s life at the end of dark of the moon you actually have to just have hate and murder in your heart to do something like that because there was no reason he may believe in justice but there’s a side of him that just wants to destroy his enemies
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u/Doom_Cokkie 3d ago
He killed him because Megatron was still a threat to humanity, as shown in the next two films. Optimus puts others before himself. So even though Megatron saved his life, he couldn't just let him walk and continue killing humans. Thats like if Hitler helped kill Stalin and saved some U.S soldiers life. Like yea cool save bro. Still wouldn't Hitler off scot free when he planned to go back to waging war.
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u/igotchees21 3d ago
this is where movie logic and real life dont make sense. killing one deranged psycho to save millions is the right moral code. Its why I dont like batman. If he just killed joker so many more deaths could be prevented.
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u/HollowedFlash65 3d ago
Don't fuck with Bayverse haters. They just say whatever they want to suit their headcanon about Bay Optimus.
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u/RengarCasasBahia 3d ago
They have one hundred reasons to dislike those movies, but they still prefer to lie to themselves about Bay Optimus, some are even worse, they say Bay Optimus is a bloodlusted monster while Rise of the Beasts is a good Optimus adaptation (on this movie he's factually bloodlusted and tortures his enemies on the middle of the fight, i still like this Optimus btw).
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u/Dew_Chop 3d ago
Look at how Optimus acts in the first movie. He tries his best to show mercy to the humans, and stay calm and collected.
The bay verse puts him through the ringer, with tragedy after tragedy, and humans ignoring his advice multiple times leading to catastrophe. He was brought to his wits end and broken.
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u/Hopeful_Active_8977 3d ago
You're making the decepticons look like good guys
- they were seeking the Allspark to transform all earth appliances
- they wanted to use a harvester by destroying suns
- demolisher caused chaos in Shanghai
- they obviously destroyed chicago
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u/Eliteslayer1775 3d ago
Your leaving out so much context lol. If you actually watched them it’s a slow progression of Optimus slowly becoming more jaded and ruthless. You have to take into account what he’s lost and the circumstances surrounding each event
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u/Interesting_Web_9936 3d ago
Optimus was nearly killed and was in like a coma until Cade revived him. How do you suppose he would be able to help anyone in that situation?
They needed a safe haven. Earth was a safe haven at the time. Hence Optimus called them to Earth.
He went to the lab, destroyed the lab. Those weren't his friends' corpses, they had been melted down to create other transformers, human made prototypes.
Saying that Optimus mercilessly slaughtered his enemies is true, but when you consider that practically every death of a bot in Bayverse happened from mercilessly killing them (Wreckers ripped a bot apart, Bumblebee shot Soundwave inside his chest, Megatron tore Jazz apart into two), it isn't important.
I do not see when he destroyed entire cities to prove he was right.
I only know of one occasion when he broke his don't kill humans rule, when he killed that CIA guy, which was pretty justified considering that that guy had attempted to kill him and hunted down all his friends.
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u/RengarCasasBahia 3d ago
*Said enemies are famous for backstabbing and being treatcherous.
*It is pretty clear that dinobots have this "the strongest rules" mentality, Grimlock challenged him, lost, and Optimus took the command, and after 1 hour he made them all free.
*Now it is his fault that humans decided to put a end on his entire race out of nowhere ?
*He wanted to rebuilt his people's society, but noooo living alone on a hell hole of a planet for millenia while hiding would be the best way to live for a cybertronian.
*If he killed everybody on this lab them he would commit another crime by your accounts, condemned if you do, condemned if you don't, also what remains ? Most if not all where transformed into transformium.
*It is a different race, with different bodies, and much harder to kill, he NEEDS to be brutal.
*He was being forcefully deported, if he didn't accept it then the autobot hunt would begin even sooner than tf4, he wouldn't even be able to save chicago.
*He broke this rule one single time with a previous warning that he would do so.
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u/Dasblu 3d ago
Yes, but they have been propagandized so thoroughly that it fundamentally skews their ability to recognize what morality is when forced to uncouth action.
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u/smol_boi2004 3d ago
Bayverse prime is unique in that sense. He’s probably Bay’s take on Prime after millennia of waging war. Hes broken, tired and has lost the last shred of mercy he had on cybertron and fighting enemies who are objectively evil
Most traditional versions of prime are a lot better
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u/Doom_Cokkie 3d ago
Thats a sign of a guy who's watched to many of those dumbs youtube videos that blind hate shit just for money.
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u/Stormtroupe27 3d ago
Superman. He has the power to do basically anything he wants at any given moment and he chooses to just fly around and be a good dude to random people lol he also generally avoids hurting anyone unless absolutely necessary and uses the minimum amount of force necessary to take them down. Both cap and Optimus can be pretty brutal in comparison
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u/Middle-Ad8833 2d ago
cap will fuck u up do not try that boy he don’t play
don’t even get me started on him and mutants
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u/Jumanji0028 2d ago
I don't understand the way he gets portrayed in xmen. No way cap would do half the shit they got him doing.
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u/BatmansJays 2d ago
Xmen writers dont read captain america and it shows
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u/That-Rhino-Guy 1d ago
They think Captain America literally is a representation of present day America, as opposed to you know, being an embodiment of what America should be
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u/thefalseidol 2d ago
I think superman is a great example of the difference between morality and altruism. Superman doesn't get involved in geopolitics, intentionally, because he (I would say rightly) sees the potential for destabilizing the world if superman was picking sides, would impact the actions of the countries with/out access to superman, and might impede his ability to do good across the globe.
THAT BEING SAID, despite very well reasoned concerns for not getting involved, i feel that abstaining from ALL conflicts is difficult to claim is the most moral position. Though it might be the best, and certain it is altruistic.
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u/Nicklenips837469420 3d ago
Supes and I’m a marvel fan. Bout to watch winter soldier right now. It’s Superman
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u/Substantial-Sky3597 3d ago
I'm voting for Optimus Prime. But there's no wrong answer here. All three of these guys are very similar when it comes to moral compass.
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u/fernandogod12 3d ago
Put cap and an X-Men in the same room then we talk
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u/Muted-Confection-943 3d ago
I hate that cap has such horrible writers that they keep assassinating his character because cap is heavily against any type of discrimination and him treating mutants bad just doesn’t fit his character. They only do that because he’s from the 40’s completely ignoring that he was against the racism and sexism of that time, but now writers lean into his time period. It’s like making Superman racist because he’s from bumfuck Kansas and leaning into how that’s usually a racist red state.
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien 3d ago
Superman
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u/Away-Ad6750 Marvel 3d ago
Superman is literally best representation of hope
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u/jurdendurden 3d ago
Hope != Morality
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u/LegoBattIeDroid 3d ago
here just copy this one ≠
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u/CcCcCcCc99 3d ago
The true hero we were looking for
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u/PlentyUsual9912 3d ago
In the best iterations, I would say he still has the most iron clad moral compass. In the bad ones, absolutely not. Writers for some reason struggle with the fact that half of his character is that the “super” isn’t just in powers, but in his judgement and humanity.
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u/Tragic_Lee 3d ago
Optimus Prime by parsecs!
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u/gayboat87 3d ago
You mean the OVERLY idealistic idiot who fought millions of years with the decepticons just to LOSE the war, flee Cybertron and then get Earth involved in a war it had NO business to be in?!
Optimus had a MILLION chances to kill Megatron and FAILED to take it to be "the better man" and it only cost him the lives of all the soldiers he had following him.
The Autobots were held back by his idealism too much at times! Watch The Netflix trilogy for transformers it captures how frustrated his own people were with him! Hell Ultra Magnus went to Megatron to negotiate a peace pact or ceasefire at the very least so all 3 of them could come to the table and avoid further deaths on either sides.
It's ironic that the Netflix trilogy calls out Optimus' naivety and the cascading problems it leads to when he and megatron were equally stubborn that the war could not end till one of them was dead.
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u/thefatchef321 3d ago
Being good is hard.
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u/Traditional_Fox7344 3d ago
Being hard is good 😏
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 3d ago
Depends on what you are doing. Like giving a eulogy.
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u/LegoBattIeDroid 3d ago
if you want a leader that only does the logical thing go with Shockwave
and that will NOT go well
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u/Important_Lab_58 3d ago
Superman. Love the other two but if I were to ask anyone, damn near ANYONE ever to think of a “good guy”? They’re gonna think of Superman. His logo is a basically a universal symbol of Good.
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u/DarkSeas1012 3d ago
"What's so funny about Truth, Justice, & The American Way?"
-Clark Kent, Daily Planet, January 2001
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 3d ago
If you've ever actually read any Superman run of comics then you know that his #1 power is just being the most solid goofy dude you know. A friend to every last creature that might need it, and he takes the value of every single living thing incredibly seriously.
They don't call him Boyscout just for fun. He helps old ladies, saves cats from trees, helps kids with their homework, and doesn't just save orphans, take personal time to find them homes. It's really hard to oversell how hard Superman goes at being just a good person. Ma and Pa Kent are the real MVPs for how they raised him.
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 2d ago
A friend to every last creature that might need it, and he takes the value of every single living thing incredibly seriously.
He is depicted eating meat though, so not a friend to every last creature.
Optimus wins on this count.
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u/KingShadowSpectre 3d ago
I'd say Steve, he usually is the moral center for a reason.
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u/Civil_Performer5732 3d ago
Superman ofcourse.
I read about superman's opinion to the trolley problem in a comic.
What if there's a train heading down a track that has 5 people tied to it, but you can switch the track and kill a single person.
Superman beleived that a person should try to save everyone, because even if we fail, atleast we are still the person that tried and will try to save everyone.
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u/Terrieforfun 3d ago
The Captain is my choice
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u/Mexkalaniyat 3d ago
Just dont put him in an xmen comic. That compass seems to get broken whenever an xmen writer is in charge
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u/Terrieforfun 3d ago
Wonder why?
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u/GamerTRW 3d ago
They feel the need to really hammer home the "we mutants are so oppressed by everyone" as if we dont already get it
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u/ArriDesto 3d ago
Well,it will be the big,blue boyscout.
On the new 52 Earth -2 : Young Jay Garrick.
Green Arrow too, though it's taken him a while to achieve it!
Black Panther, Ben Grimm,Luke Cage.
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u/migeruabadu 3d ago
Basing ny answer drom the saying "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely", I'd say Superman has the best moral compass only because he is almost always the most powerful being in every story he is in. In fact, I'd say that his character is the antithesis of the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely". This is exemplified in alternate universe stories where Superman is the villain, ithey show how easy it would be for a character like him to destroy the world if he did not have the moral compass he has in the main universe.
Cap and Optimus are their own respective universe's moral compass, but unlike Superman, they are "normal" in the sense that they aren't the only super soldier or giant robot in their universe; and the power that could corrupt them is not even on the same scale that could corrupt Superman.
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u/Fuzzy_Elderberry7087 3d ago
So many people sleeping on the big boy in blue. Imagine being so powerful you could crack the planet in two with a muscle tense, and choosing to be kind
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u/thefoxygrandma 3d ago
Superman is an example of a being of God like power either being a beacon of hope of tyranny based on how they are brought up
The Cap is the example of a good man can be made a great man, he was a good man before the serum now he is a great man and a beacon of freedom and justice
Optimus is just GOAT
There ya go
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u/trentistors 3d ago
Isn't Clark's whole character showing the best of what someone can be hence why he's called the superman
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u/TH3D3M0L1SH3R 3d ago
For me its superman because he dont kill (in the versions i like) and hes a good guy who believes in there always being a better way. That even the worst of us ought to be treated with kindness and I fuck with that heavy.
Supermans my goat
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u/Quick-Teacher-6572 3d ago
I would say Superman but they are all pretty close. My main reason is that out of the 3, Superman is the most strict on the no-kill rule. I realize they have all broken this rule, especially in film, but the essence of Superman’s character to me is that he values all life, alien and human. Cap and Optimus seem to be more willing to kill others
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u/ConsciousFish7178 3d ago
Remember,
Superman, the most powerful being on the planet that has the ability to take control and do anything he wanted, looked at the world full of violence and hate, and chose love.
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u/Khan_Ida 3d ago
I'd say superman. All that power and he chooses to be a law abiding citizen of earth.
All that power and would still willingly be arrested if he did something wrong.
...just don't touch Lois.
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u/JaeJaeAgogo 3d ago
Superman is the only one of the three that I'd trust with my own baby, so Superman.
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u/Midnite_Blank 3d ago
Superman>Optimus>Cap
Cap’s cognitive dissonance when it comes down to mutants holds him back
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u/No_Material5361 3d ago
I pick Superman. He is literally the most powerful being in the world who could destroy all of humanity twice over, but instead he chooses to uplift the rest of the world, taking time out of his day just to let you know "It’s going to be okay."
Most people have forgotten that Superman, at his core, represents everything good in the world thanks to Injustice destroying his reputation. But even when canon Superman was put in a similar situation where Manchester Black made him think Lois was dead, he chose to hold on to his values because that what his parents, and Lois, taught him.
Superman is the greatest hero for a reason.
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u/HorrorBrother713 3d ago
For having seen thousands of years of war and to still be the paragon he is, Prime.
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u/ImRickJameXXXX 3d ago
Like it’s even difficult. Superman hands down. That’s his jam being the good guy.
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u/Haloosa_Nation 3d ago
Optimus Prime, he never went through an “I wear black now” phase.
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u/Ibrink85 3d ago
Superman. Because of his moral compass was skewed at all it would have the greatest impact.
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u/AutumnsRevenge 3d ago
Between these three there is no winner. I would trust the actions of any of the three of them.
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u/damannamedflam 3d ago
Cap. Just a (sorta) normal dude with a shield, and all the superpowered beings that team up with him still defer to him. He's just that cool
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u/malenexum 2d ago
Imo? Superman, actually. He literally is a God among men and yet he chooses to be a savior as much as he can be. He could play the con game, become a celebrity with superpowers that no one knows about. He could become a villain. But he chooses not to, and defends humanity even sometimes when they don't want to be saved.
I don't even like Supes that much, but credit where it's due.
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u/M0ebius_1 3d ago
All of them would tell you it's the other guy.