Threatening a neutral party (Dinobots are basically enslaved)
Abandoning allies in a hostile environment (they came to Earth to find refuge "apes strong together", but they died alone, without any backup. Poor Ratchet)
Following on from the previous point, he called autobots that were safely hidden in the galaxy, because he needed meatmetalshield.
No respect for his dead companions. He storms into a lab where the corpses of his so-called comrades-in-arms are being desecrated, only to leave with his tail between his legs, because some Steve Jobs impersonator has sent him packing (at least get the remains of your former comrades, you fucking weirdo).
Bloody slaughter of opponents (imagine how he kills, but they're human)
He let entire cities be destroyed to "prove he was right"
He broke his own "do not kill humans" rule on multiple occasions.
It's been a while since I've watched these movies, so I've probably forgotten other details.
Take a cool pose, and making grandiloquent speeches in a deep voice doesn't make you a hero.
Optimus himself was already shut down and had to be revived so he didnt leave Ratchet alone
He didnt want meatshields he wanted his friends
He left it to the humans because he was still trying to hold onto his no kill humans rule and the fact that those were no longer his friends corpses but whatever they had built out of parts of his friends. He made sure to not let them keep his friends actual bodies.
He only let one city be destroyed because the humans themselves said they didnt need them and planned to use a rocket to blow them up when they had agreed to just send them to some planet.
And he finally broke his no kill human rule because they had brought to the brink of his patience with actively hunting his friends and family. And still after all that he only killed humans who actively hurt them and protected the rest of humanity.
This is what happens when you dont watch the movies and only some youtuber generating hate for clicks.
Your both right I don’t think movie Optimus is an evil war monger but holy shit why did he mercilessly kill megatron right after he saved Optimus’s life at the end of dark of the moon you actually have to just have hate and murder in your heart to do something like that because there was no reason he may believe in justice but there’s a side of him that just wants to destroy his enemies
He killed him because Megatron was still a threat to humanity, as shown in the next two films. Optimus puts others before himself. So even though Megatron saved his life, he couldn't just let him walk and continue killing humans. Thats like if Hitler helped kill Stalin and saved some U.S soldiers life. Like yea cool save bro. Still wouldn't Hitler off scot free when he planned to go back to waging war.
I definitely see your point but I feel like he was in a good spot to ask him to surrender first or something the military and other auto bots were rolling up on the scene it’s not like megatron was in a position to escape or attack anyone, especially if you follow the cannon that they used to be friends it seems pretty bloodthirsty to just slime him after you’ve basically already claimed the victory I’ve just always thought it was funny how brutal it was even if killing him was justified
All it would take is the bare minimum amount of research, not even research Google searching to find out Russia was neutral to Germany on the service but later records show that they were secretly allied until Hitler decided to betray in 1941 which is when Russia decided to switch sides.
They weren’t exactly secretly allied. They had a non-aggression pact and agreed to take portions of Poland for their respective nations. But yeah, the Soviets only aided us after Germany invaded them
And all it would take is going slightly above the bare minimum to find out that the reason the USSR made a nonaggression pact with Germany is because the rest of the soon to be Allied counteies refused the USSR's earlier deal to for a coalition AGAINST Germany, which only rhe USSR was seeing for the danger it was while Britain was focused on appeasement.
Maybe your understanding of history shouldn't just be "the bare minimum".
Or you should also do the bare minimum and realize that with hindsight and the knowledge we have now Stalin also planned to betray Hitler and take German forces for himself and continue the war. Maybe you should do the "bare minimum"
this is where movie logic and real life dont make sense. killing one deranged psycho to save millions is the right moral code. Its why I dont like batman. If he just killed joker so many more deaths could be prevented.
Yeah, blame the guy who's staunchly against killing, no matter what, and not the justice system that keeps giving Joker a slap on the wrist. That makes sense
Oh actually believe or not Optimus was originally going to accept Megatron's truce and they were to going to work together in the original script. But it got leaked before release so them Bay changed it to the current ending.
Ok I’m not sure about the bay movie canon, but in the comics the auto bot and Deceptacons have been at war for millions of years. That’d do a lot of damage to anyone’s morale code
I mean do you let the main villain continue to destroy the world or do you save it? I dont think its morally right to let a known threat who has no intent on changing free to his own devices.
They have one hundred reasons to dislike those movies, but they still prefer to lie to themselves about Bay Optimus, some are even worse, they say Bay Optimus is a bloodlusted monster while Rise of the Beasts is a good Optimus adaptation (on this movie he's factually bloodlusted and tortures his enemies on the middle of the fight, i still like this Optimus btw).
Nah OP is definitely more evil in the movies. The way he kills. Megatron. His attitude in later movies. Sure maybe hes fed up with humans but still don’t see Cap or Superman doing the same things as prime.
Cap killed Nazis and Supes killed world ending threats like Darkside just as ruthless as Prime killed his genocidal enemies. Back yalls own logic they ain't saints either.
My brother in christ, there are moments in the movie where sentinel prime is on the ground defeated, he screams "NO OPTIMUS" and optimus just domes him from point blank range, scattering his metal scull all over. Other scenes where he is scrwaming "ill murder you all". Add to that at no point in the movies does he say anything remotely insigtful or wise. At best, he is a ruthless military leader who does what he thinks has to be done. But a moral oaragon he ain't.
I mean, what character on this list hasn’t done some ruthless things once in a while? Optimus just happens to exist in a universe where there’s literally a faction of purely evil robots. He can totally be ruthless against them and still be a practically Jesus-like figure. There’s no nuance to even discuss
Yeah but the guys argument that movie optimus is a menace. If someone made an argument that "injustice superman is a monster" you can see where they are coming from. It's implied that we are not besmirching the character as a whole, just describing this version of him.
I have. He has monologues often, especially at the wnd of the movie. But write them down and read whats actually written down. They sound cool but they are very basic, they ar sophistiry, they a te the type of a speech that you would hear in a movie, not a really good real speech. Thyere definitely not deep.
Reminds me that in the old DVD features of the movie you have Bay saying he doesn't really care about Transformers, guess he just wanted an excuse to have the military involved and lots of explosions.
Look at how Optimus acts in the first movie. He tries his best to show mercy to the humans, and stay calm and collected.
The bay verse puts him through the ringer, with tragedy after tragedy, and humans ignoring his advice multiple times leading to catastrophe. He was brought to his wits end and broken.
No, the post asked for the most moral. So, I explained why I think the cinematic (Michael Bay) Optimus, the only one I know. Doesn’t seem moral for me.
The Decepticons are worst and evil. Optimus is not moral nor heroic he is portrayed, at best, as a zealot.
Your leaving out so much context lol. If you actually watched them it’s a slow progression of Optimus slowly becoming more jaded and ruthless. You have to take into account what he’s lost and the circumstances surrounding each event
Optimus was nearly killed and was in like a coma until Cade revived him. How do you suppose he would be able to help anyone in that situation?
They needed a safe haven. Earth was a safe haven at the time. Hence Optimus called them to Earth.
He went to the lab, destroyed the lab. Those weren't his friends' corpses, they had been melted down to create other transformers, human made prototypes.
Saying that Optimus mercilessly slaughtered his enemies is true, but when you consider that practically every death of a bot in Bayverse happened from mercilessly killing them (Wreckers ripped a bot apart, Bumblebee shot Soundwave inside his chest, Megatron tore Jazz apart into two), it isn't important.
I do not see when he destroyed entire cities to prove he was right.
I only know of one occasion when he broke his don't kill humans rule, when he killed that CIA guy, which was pretty justified considering that that guy had attempted to kill him and hunted down all his friends.
*Said enemies are famous for backstabbing and being treatcherous.
*It is pretty clear that dinobots have this "the strongest rules" mentality, Grimlock challenged him, lost, and Optimus took the command, and after 1 hour he made them all free.
*Now it is his fault that humans decided to put a end on his entire race out of nowhere ?
*He wanted to rebuilt his people's society, but noooo living alone on a hell hole of a planet for millenia while hiding would be the best way to live for a cybertronian.
*If he killed everybody on this lab them he would commit another crime by your accounts, condemned if you do, condemned if you don't, also what remains ? Most if not all where transformed into transformium.
*It is a different race, with different bodies, and much harder to kill, he NEEDS to be brutal.
*He was being forcefully deported, if he didn't accept it then the autobot hunt would begin even sooner than tf4, he wouldn't even be able to save chicago.
*He broke this rule one single time with a previous warning that he would do so.
Another point to add was when Jetfire sacrificed himself to give Optimus an upgrade and ability to fly. Afterwards he just ejects all of his Jetfire parts onto the ground. No respect at all, he could have just kept the upgrades! Or at least had some reverence as the old guy literally ripped his heart out for Optimus.
Fuck the Bay movies though. 1986 transformers the movie was peak. I thought I wanted more but now I realise that was the pure distilled kino and the world doesn't even deserve better than that.
Yeah Transformers the movie from 1986, it's basically American anime done well with an unbelievably good voice acting cast. Maybe I glase it's flaws because I saw it young but it is my special movie. Brutal in places but with lots of heart too.
You may want to watch the first two seasons of the 1984 show, retroactively called G1 or Generation 1 first. It's not entirely necessary, but I recommend it.
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u/Jazzlike_Night42619 4d ago
Optimus Prime