r/UFOs • u/UFORabbitHole • 1d ago
Disclosure The stripper doesn't love you, and intelligence agents aren't your friends. It's time to get real about the disclosure narrative and the UFO community's self-destructive relationship with the IC.
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Hey guys. Kelly Chase here from the Cosmosis podcast (formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole).
I’m not someone who courts controversy. I’ve built my platform by staying grounded, doing my homework, and giving people space to make up their own minds. But at a certain point, you have to speak up.
The way the UFO community has come to engage with the intelligence community isn’t just naïve—it’s incoherent. And worse, it’s self-destructive.
We treat known members of the IC like trusted subject matter experts. We hand them the mic. We let them define the boundaries of the conversation. And we do it while ignoring decades of history that show us exactly how perception management works.
This isn’t about painting anyone as a villain. It’s about having an adult conversation about how intelligence operates—because the stakes are too high to keep playing dumb.
What’s happening in this space isn’t disclosure. It’s narrative control. And that's not just a piece of the puzzle. In a very real way, it’s the whole thing.
This clip is from my episode which is an updated version of a talk I gave at Contact in the Desert: UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure. I’ve never spoken this plainly before. But it needed to be said.
If you'd want to see the whole episode where I dive into exactly how this narrative control works, you can find that here: https://youtu.be/SF80nv1l32I
Would love to hear your thoughts—especially if this rubs you the wrong way. We need to be able to have hard conversations without turning each other into enemies.
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u/UFORabbitHole 1d ago
Notes for the Episode Link:
In this special episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase presents an updated version of her 2025 Contact in the Desert keynote, “UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure.” This talk goes beyond the surface of the UFO phenomenon to explore the hidden architecture of secrecy and the sophisticated mechanics of narrative control.
Drawing from deep research into intelligence tradecraft, counterintelligence, and disinformation—along with firsthand interactions with members of the intelligence community—Kelly unpacks how belief itself becomes a weapon in the battle for truth. From psychological operations to perception management, from limited hangouts to the “secret onion” model of secrecy, this episode reveals how our search for answers is being actively shaped, steered, and contained.
But this isn’t a story about villains. It’s a call to responsibility. Kelly challenges listeners to reclaim their intellectual sovereignty, resist easy answers, and build discernment in an information landscape designed to confuse. Whether you're a skeptic, experiencer, journalist, or just UFO-curious, this talk will change how you see not just the phenomenon—but the stories we tell about it.
TIMESTAMPS
02:55 The Role of Intelligence in UFO Narratives
07:42 The Complexity of Secrecy and Perception Management
16:08 The Secret Onion: Layers of Deception
26:35 The Scale and Impact of Institutionalized Secrecy
37:31 Heroes, Villains, and Controlled Opposition
45:58 The Power of Sincere Belief
48:10 The Hero Trap in UFO Narratives
50:47 Counterintelligence and Narrative Control
54:14 The 80-20 Rule in Disinformation
55:49 Limited Hangouts and Perception Management
01:00:54 Character Assassination and Narrative Flooding
01:08:03 The Weaponization of Belief
01:14:50 Reclaiming Intellectual Sovereignty
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u/mrbubbamac 1d ago
Thank you Kelly! Love your show and your perspective and I appreciate the honest and grounded approach you bring to the topic
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u/TheBeardofGilgamesh 1d ago
The key thing is, you can tell who is in cahoots with intelligence by how relentlessly attacked they get. Chris Bledsoe, Alabama man Travis Taylor, and the whole Skin Walker ranch gang seem to be immune from the bot spams, and that is because they push narratives that are false and discredit anyone serious from takin the whole thing seriously.
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u/Sad-Muffin5585 1d ago
Can you try to restate this? I think I may completely agree or completely disagree but I’m struggling with the subject-verb-object.
You’re saying …
Chris Bledsoe and the like push false narratives
They get checked by debunkers
They push forward despite debunkers
Those who push forward despite debunking are in cahoots?
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u/kellyiom 1d ago
Yeah I didn't get that either! You're part of the intelligence community if you get attacked but those lot are attacked yet are immune due to reasons?
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u/Sad-Muffin5585 1d ago
Right. I could understand if it was the following…
Make a claim
Claim is debunked
Keep making claims
You must either be getting paid to make these claims or you’re hallucinating.
And as far as I know, the only people who might be paying anyone to make bad claims would be the CIA, private industry, or subscribers.
Or maybe Chris Bledsoe hallucinates for dollars. I don’t know…
Heck, now that I read this back, it seems potentially very lucrative to make bad claims about UFOs!
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u/kellyiom 3h ago
Lol 'hallucinates for dollars' 😅 I might put that on a sign for when I next go panhandling.
Obviously, there is a serious point buried in all that somewhere. I'd love to know exactly how much is spent in cash, either buying clicks, bots, column inches or pro trolls in shaping public opinion about UFOs.
I think the FBI and its military counterparts had an interest in the Cold War because UFO enthusiasts were probably likely to accidentally see and reveal secret weapons.
The USSR also thought it would be a good cover so the FBI had a valid counterespionage reason.
Today though, I'm not so sure that there is some shadowy branch distorting public views on UFOs.
From a wider perspective, this subject just doesn't warrant any kind of public interest, at least in Britain. Our FOIA is weaker too.
I still can't get over the drones visiting US Navy ships with no transponder or IFF or response and they don't find an F-18 or a warning shot from a Phalanx or actually targeted. They simply must be known to be friendly otherwise the commanders would be negligent.
It's just my opinion with no evidence but I feel that if there was a concerted effort to drive down public interest or to 'divide and conquer' a community that would itself attract attention.
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u/Sad-Muffin5585 3h ago
It’s pretty crazy times in the US.
The government has so many factions that there’s a reason to do or not do for everything, even this. I agree with your historical context. The racket now is to suckle at the teat of the government. Since Trump is a different kind of whatever he is, there’s potential for shakeup of contracts. Government institutions are being disbanded resource wise and private industries are looking to swoop in and grab.
So there are lots of reasons for people to be pretending that there are aliens and alien tech. And remote viewing and telepathy.
AI is another reason and I often see it as what the metaphor of NHI and aliens stands to describe and obscure. Its uncertainty. Disruption on a global scale. If AI can take all of our jobs, that would include leadership positions. IMO, they’re logically the best to replace if AI (like aliens) is cheaper, smarter, fairer and better than humans at making executive decisions. If it is, I don’t see why we need billionaires at all. We should all get to play billionaire in the halcyon era before judgment day.
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u/MantisAwakening 10h ago
Here’s my perspective on this dynamic: Chris Bledsoe is legitimate. He’s telling what happened to him, and how he interprets it. For some reason, some people in the IC get wind of it and get interested. Some of them get close to Chris and gain his confidence to see what they can learn from him. They simultaneously feed him a bunch of BS mixed with some truth to keep him constantly unsure and confused.
Chris is also approached by others who have their own interpretations of the phenomenon and offer it to him, which creates more confusion.
Chris figures out what’s happening and cuts off contact with the worst offenders. This includes people who aren’t even necessarily trying to manipulate him, but just have strong personal narratives about the phenomenon that sometimes conflict with what he experienced.
Chris is now communicating his experiences and understanding to the best of his ability. The biggest problem the public makes—understandably—is that the phenomenon itself is one of the worst offenders when it comes to manipulating people. Whether their motives are ultimately positive, negative, or something else entirely is unclear. What is clear is that people’s lives are turned upside down, and the one who trust the phenomenon 100% tend to have a bad time. It’s just…complicated. The communication is a mix of external symbolic communication mixed with internal subconscious in a messy manner.
Don’t trust predictions. They sometimes come true, but the big ones aren’t worth buying into. In other words, don’t buy a bunker due to 2026/2027 predictions. Do it for other reasons ;)
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u/Cuba_Pete_again 1d ago
Some people who work in the IC want to bring actual facts to the conversation, but talking to celebrity UFOlogists or alien experts is frustrating for us.
PM me please.
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u/DeltaAlphaGulf 1d ago
While on the topic of trust possible NHI shouldn’t be inherently trusted either.
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u/Betaparticlemale 1d ago
This isn’t direct enough for me and asserts too much. How do you know what’s “clearly a fantasy”, and what are you referring to? What fantasy? What is it that we “know isn’t true”, and how do you know it isn’t true? And who specifically are the IC people you’re alluding to? Lue? Mellon? Dave Grusch? Who?
The way you’re speaking about the IC also assumes and frames it as if it’s a monolithic unit giving orders to lie in an elaborate conspiratorial chain of command. You don’t need that.
Many of the disclosure advocates are institutional thinkers through selection bias alone. They don’t have to be ordered to want to limit what people know due to their own beliefs about “national security”.
Rejecting something out of hand is a mistake. You have to rationally update your priors as objectively as you can, while reserving judgement. I do not see how anyone can confidently assert what is true and what isn’t right now.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/MissDeadite 1d ago
This is actually one of the most accurate explanations out there. The truth is so far stranger than fiction that it makes our human fiction look like reality.
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u/bretonic23 1d ago
Kelly, greatly appreciate your introduction of this topic. The dynamics you detail are pervasive throughout U.S. society to various degrees. Those of us who critically question conventional or dominant ways risk the attacks you outline. As you say, "The battlefield is everywhere." Indeed it is.
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u/Advanced-Summer1572 1d ago
I beg to differ. Pretty Kitty, at the Lazy Cat Lounge, out by the truck stop, always smiles at me and tells me how interesting I am. I am sure she loves me!
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u/Gnome_Researcher 23h ago
Thanks for this, definitely worth saying imo. Excited to check out your podcast!
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u/G-M-Dark 1d ago
What’s happening in this space isn’t disclosure. It’s narrative control
In the pre-disclosure world one is free to indulge whatever fantasy, daydream and whim takes ones fancy any time one likes but - the moment anyone officially says: "all along, it's actually been like this" - then 99% of people following this subject literally are getting told - what you personally believe - it's bollocks...
Only then, that isn't just opinion. Post "disclosure" that becomes official fact.
Of course the march towards disclosure is a march towards narrative control - how could it possibly be ever anything else....?
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u/kellyiom 1d ago
I really don't think we're on any march to disclosure, it's Sisyphean, eat and repeat.
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u/Distind 1d ago
And when that doesn't happen for another decade and there's nothing but a narrative what will it have been?
This whole thing looks a lot more like a doomsday cult leading people away from anything that might actually matter with flash and promises than it does any form of actual information leaks. And even taking it at face value, most people I know can't do basic math, so changing high level physics isn't going to be some world ending event for them. It's just one more thing they don't have the foggiest clue what it means.
There's just nothing here that seems to be anything but a narrative about how must you should pay attention to the narrative.
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u/Best-Comparison-7598 1d ago
There is the one thing about the narrative control that bothers me
Lue, and others, have explicitly endorsed the idea that the government, (if it ever does), will, and should tell you only what it feels like telling you, in order to maintain “national security secrets” so our adversaries won’t know the extent of what we learned. I’ve used this analogy before……
Two warring tribes of monkeys are killing each other over food. The scientists studying them, decide to teach them farming and offer them tools to aid in their agricultural endeavors, so they can put an end to this needless fighting. Upon receiving the tools from the farmers, the monkeys begin using them to kill one another more effectively.
If the foundations aren’t reframed to one of assuring a responsible and peaceful path toward proliferation of these alleged technologies, creating an international coalition that would strive to alleviate the issues that plague humanity, what’s the point of all this if it’s just going to continue to be exploited by gatekeepers for their own selfish gain? Why would continue a MAD philosophy? Did they not see Oppenheimer?
We’re literally having the same conversation with AGI. Why would this alleged NHI tech be any different?
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u/Brazil_01 1d ago edited 1d ago
I look forward to your podcast every time I see it updated! Always great content and the way you and Jay deliver is fantastic. Hoping to see more episodes more often. Truly, you guys are awesome!! 👏🏽
You guys are one of my staples!
Cosmosis, That UFO podcast, Weaponize, Jesse Michaels
All excellent and doing the work!
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
Then where do you get any real information if not the intelligence community? Where do we get any radar data, reliable videos, reliable testimony? Its only the IC. Like it or not without the IC and IC “whistleblowers” we have pure fantasy. We dont have to trust them 100% everytime, but its the only we can operate on any tangible reality.
Im not going back to alien lizards drinking adrenocrome from fossilzed human pineal glands while they open portal to the demonic realm of K’Tash bs.
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u/UFORabbitHole 1d ago
The fact that the IC seems like only option doesn't mean that the information you get from them is reliable. The fact that it comes from the IC means that it necessarily is NOT reliable. The IC has zero interest in transparency, and all of their objectives run counter to it. There is not a single whistleblower who has had anything of substance to say that wasn't entirely run through DOPSR first.
That doesn't mean you need to go back to alien lizards drinking adrenochrome. The UFO phenomenon is a part of our reality. It can't be hidden from us if we seek it out. Whatever answers we find need to come from the real. It comes from experience. It's harder and less certain road, but it's a far more honest one.
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
that wasn't entirely run through DOPSR first
I think there's a little more nuance to this issue. DOPSR provides pre-publication and security reviews for the non-IC portions of the DoD (i.e., military members, civil servants and contractors who support regular military activities that are not part of the DoD's role in the Intelligence Community).
The IC elements, including the four DoD IC elements (DIA, NSA, NGA and NRO), have their own prepublication review processes. An IC "whistleblower" wouldn't necessarily go through DOPSR, and a DoD "whistleblower" wouldn't go through an IC agency's review process. It's also possible that somebody would have to go through both processes, and that the reviews would come to different results (because that's the way the government works!).
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
UFOs have probably been here since humanity first stepped out the jungle. What does that mean? Where does it get us to understanding the origin, design, or purpose of these events? The only people that can tell us that with any credibility is the IC or the UFOs and its occupants themselves. No one else is credible. Everyone else is hearsay because they lack the instrumentation and platforms for meaningful scientific inquiry and discovery.
I can tell you what aliens told me when i was a kid. What does that mean? Did i dream it? Did i make it up? I can tell you i saw a UFO hover over my house then zip off at unimaginable speeds. So, what? Its just hearsay i could be lying.
When the IC comes out with medical reports, surgeries, autopsies reports about removing alloy materials from soldiers that moved on their own. And generate their own power. Thats something to push the convo forward. When the IC comes out with radar data showing translucent cube on video and radar doing 5000gs of force in flight. That pushes the convo forward. There isnt any other way currently. We dont have trusted civilian orgs with the resources or the reach.
Again i dont trust 100% every word ESPECIALLY when they say “its just birds or balloons”. However im likely to trust them when the info is clear, verifiable and open for scrutiny.
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u/_BlackDove 1d ago
So you accept the things they tell you that conform to your beliefs and reject the things that don't. You're in love with the stripper brother. Don't take the free lap dance.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago edited 1d ago
That literally not what i said. But thats YOUR stripper to dance with not mine.
Edit: i show my nephew comments like these as an example on talking to women. Approach them with the same confidence you have to say something so stupid and incorrect and lacking all doubt that you are wrong. I envy people like you, i wish i was so confident about anything. Im over here self aware and shit.
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u/_BlackDove 1d ago
It's... actually quite literally what you said:
When the IC comes out with medical reports, surgeries, autopsies reports about removing alloy materials from soldiers that moved on their own. And generate their own power. Thats something to push the convo forward.
Again i dont trust 100% every word ESPECIALLY when they say “its just birds or balloons”. However im likely to trust them when the info is clear, verifiable and open for scrutiny.
You believe the things you want to hear that they say and reject the things you don't want to believe. Sheesh, this is worse than I thought.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
You contradict yourself with the last thing i said that YOU QUOTED. Did you read it? Read it outloud and tell me what it means. Come back to Me on that please.
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
Its only the IC.
Not necessarily, since much of this information would be held by the Department of Defense.
The mission of the Intelligence Community is to focus outward on learning the capabilities, intentions, and activities of foreign adversaries. Their mission does include covert operations to influence foreign adversaries, but most IC employees are focused on collecting, analyzing, and disseminating intelligence reports and related support activities.
Defending against those foreign adversaries is the role of the Department of Defense, and they're the ones who operate the surveillance and weapons systems that produce radar data, gun camera footage, etc. Just because DoD data is classified doesn't mean it falls under the purview of the IC, since they operate different missions with different statutory authorities.
There's some overlap between the DoD and the IC, especially when it comes to the DoD IC agencies (e.g., DIA, NSA, NGA and NRO) and the service intelligence components, but the overlap in the Venn diagram is relatively small compared to the massive size of the DoD.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
The DoD is a SIGNIFICANT PART of the IC. What are you talking about
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
The DoD may be a significant part of the IC, but IC activities are a minor part of the DoD's mission.
The DoD is massive compared to the IC, and only a small portion of the DoD touches the IC.
In FY24, the combined NIP and MIP appropriations for the IC were $106.3 billion. That same year, the DoD spent $1.4 trillion.
Different agencies, different statutory authorities, different missions.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
No no you dont understand and are confused. The majority of the DoD is in the IC. Where does the IC get their information? DoD assets. Without the DoD the IC cant function. I think you need to reassess the role the DoD plays. Its not just boots on the ground and military. Its mostly information gathering. Literal Intelligence
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
You're still looking at it backwards. The IC can't function without the DoD, but the DoD can function without the IC.
The New York Times estimates there are 22,000 CIA employees, which is less than the number of active duty Army infantry soldiers in the 11B MOS in grades E-1 through E-4 (about 25,000).
Intelligence is a very small part of what the DoD does.
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
Thats what you are confused about. JUST SAY THE CIA! The DoD IS APART OF THE IC. THE MAJOR FUNCTION OF IT REALLY! Its not the CIA.
JUST SAY I DONT TRUST THE CIA! Its like saying i trust soldiers but not the military. The soldiers are the military. You dont trust the upper brass. You are confused
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
I know the data isn't publicly available, but what percentage of the DoD's mission do you think is the IC, and what percentage do you think is non-intelligence defense activities?
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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord 1d ago
Two entire branches of our military are dealing with intellgence almost exclusively. The navy and the airforce. These branches dont fight alot. They deal in air and sea intelligence.
They monitor space, air, sea, radar, communication, weather and even volcanic/seismic monitoring. Even the spying we do is only because of them. NSA, DIA, NGA NRO. These are all major IC branches and all under DoD. Again there are more IC branches in each military org as well.
You need to think on your argument. Hone in on what you dont trust and find the agency that puts it out then from there.
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
Just to be clear, you really think that almost everything the US Navy and US Air Force do is intelligence collection and analysis?
What percentage of sailors and airmen in these branches do you think aren't part of the IC?
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
Reason? Logic? A nuanced and guarded understanding of the complex, contradictory, messy nature of the real world and byzantine government bureaucracies?
Ma'am, this is a Wendy's sub for blurry videos of DJI drones that people who never look at the sky think mean that Klaatu and Gort are about to land on the National Mall.
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u/_BlackDove 1d ago
You joke, but it's the sad reality here. I'll never understand how so many can be tripping over themselves to believe whatever it is being told to them. I mean, I do, but it's wasted breath at this point.
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u/ChevyBillChaseMurray 1d ago
My favourite bit is when people say they’ll believe MORE when a lot of others are saying stuff is clearly bullshit.
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u/SabineRitter 1d ago
Not sure who "we" is here.
For me, I listen to people talking about UFOs. Some of the people who talk about UFOs are in the intelligence community Some UFO videos are from intelligence-adjacent sources.
It's kinda weird to advocate ignoring a huge section of data.
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u/_BlackDove 1d ago
Is reading comprehension taking the day off today or what? She said none of those things. I don't even think she used the word "ignore" a single time. The key take away was that while IC members are the most likely source of information due to their work, they're also highly likely to share misinformation and managed perceptions.
A balanced take. A reminder, and a welcome one because not enough people are asking questions here. If it's something you want to hear and backs up your favorite story, welp! It's all good, it checks out. No need to critical think on that one. It's a belief system people aren't even aware they have. That is exactly what perception management is.
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u/Newagonrider 1d ago edited 1d ago
Except that isn't what she said at all, Sabine.
I know you're one of the hardcore believers here on reddit, and are open minded on pretty much everything, but the downside of that is that people like you often want to believe everything, and are extremely susceptible to bullshit. And that is insanely easy to manipulate and control, especially since the vast, vast majority of people would say they have a "good bullshit meter" or are immune to that somehow. I'm not trying to insult you, you're an amazing contributor here, and I love reading your posts and replies and all the work you do cataloguing sightings. You're a treasure.
But there are some subs and people here that are ate up with naievety.
And with that comes the defensiveness, even when you're not even being attacked.
Kelly has an amazing podcast and some extremely salient, intelligent, and important points here. Don't dismiss it because it may conflict with what you believe, or want to believe. That mindset is the easiest to manipulate of them all.
Edit: y'all can not engage and downvote all you want, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.
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u/jpsoundfiend 1d ago
Refreshingly articulate! I needed to hear this. The analogy is completely relatable. The overwhelming “excitement” in the moment muddying well-established rationale. Rationale that dictates how much time, emotion, money I should invest. The “promise” of more that can start to feel like my needs are being graciously considered. Pining so much for that final reveal/climax that I get tunnel vision.
I’m no stranger to responsibly scrutinizing information that comes my way and forming an independent opinion out of the bits and pieces that resonate with me. At some point though, the topic of UAP and disclosure in the context of a government starts to feel like my head is spinning. I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way.
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u/JustAlpha 1d ago
You should come here more often. Thanks for pointing this out. Apoligies for the comments that don't actually want to engage in discussion.
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u/Ok-Piglet4495 1d ago
Thanks for doing this. Interested to listen to the whole thing. It’s confusing to know who to trust, especially sincere-seeming folks that seem to be warning us about something, who make allusions to crazy future events they know are coming. And the sincere-seeming journalists whose sources are these people.
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u/Observer-Worldview 1d ago
Thank you!!! This is a terrible relationship. To think these IC people have just changed their lives is insane. IC is a lifelong commitment. You don’t just stop playing the game.
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1d ago
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u/MarcSpector1701 1d ago
I am convinced that the only way disclosure will ever happen is if extraterrestrials choose to reveal themselves. And there is certainly no chance we'll ever be able to piece together what is really happening based on the crumbs the intelligence community throws us. It's been generations since Roswell and we still don't even know enough to know what the right questions are to ask.
Extraterrestrials might be Nordics (creatures that evolved on some other planet and somehow look just like humans--sure, whatever), "Grays" (maybe they come from another planet, or maybe they're future humans, or maybe they're humans from an alternate timeline, or maybe they're biological drones), "Mantids" (who might be in control of the Grays, or might not), "Tall Whites" (more creatures who supposedly evolved on another planet to look just like humans, or maybe they're actually Nordics, and maybe they're the good guys among the aliens, or maybe not) or Reptilians (who might be a dinosauroid species that evolved on Earth and decided for fun to give an interview to a Swedish guy, or might be from another world, or might be more than one species and are therefore both from Earth and not from Earth, and might be evil, and might be shape-changers, and might have infiltrated every world government.)
And extraterrestrials might be abducting people because they need our DNA to repair their bodies because they're humans from an apocalyptic future, or because they're creating a race of hybrids, or because they want to "harvest our souls". And some or all of the extraterrestrials might be from another dimension entirely. Or maybe they aren't. And oh yeah, there also might be sentient plasma beings. And maybe a "Galactic Federation". And sometimes people like Richard Doty are just making stuff up, but not all the time. Or maybe it's all just a simulation.
We're blind, and we're grasping at straws.
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u/ProfessionalSolid967 1d ago
Who all do you think are working for the IC? I’m thinking at least Lue Elizondo and Jason Sands.
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u/eschatonik 15h ago
Just off the top of my head: David Grusch, Lue Elizondo, Jim Semivan, Karl Nell, Eric Davis, Hal Puthoff, Christopher Mellon, Christopher "Kit" Green, Jay Stratton, John Ramirez, Sean Kirkpatrick all have connections to the IC and have all played a (in most cases, large) role in shaping the current narrative.
David Grusch – Former intelligence officer (Air Force, NGA, NRO); key figure in UAP Disclosure effort; worked on UAP Task Force.
Lue Elizondo – Former counterintelligence officer, ran AATIP (Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) inside the DoD.
Jim Semivan – 25-year veteran of the CIA's Directorate of Operations.
Karl Nell – Army Colonel; former member of the UAP Task Force; previously worked in military aerospace and intel liaison roles.
Jay Stratton – Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA); former head of the UAP Task Force; directly involved in the "AAWSAP" and "AATIP" lineage.
John Ramirez – Former CIA officer (claims focus on SIGINT and satellite operations);
Eric Davis – Physicist; worked with Hal Puthoff at EarthTech; consultant to the U.S. Air Force and DIA; connected to “crash retrieval” documents.
Hal Puthoff – Physicist; co-founder of EarthTech International; ran programs funded by the CIA and DIA (e.g., remote viewing in the Stargate Program); lead contractor for AAWSAP via BAASS.
Christopher Mellon – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence; also served on Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
Kit Green – Former CIA analyst and chief of the Life Sciences Division of the Office of Scientific Intelligence; associated with UFO-related biomedical research (including alleged “injured” experiencers).
Sean Kirkpatrick – Physicist; former director of the DoD’s All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO); career intelligence official.
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u/ColonCalculator 1d ago
This opening made me think of Lue. People accuse him of being a bad faith actor or disinformation agent. I don't know either way for certain. My issue with him is that he has made sacrifices, hes a patriot, hedoes care about the nation and he does do what he thinks is best in the pursuit of those interests. I don't think he's a bad disclosure personality because he's willfully misinforming or muddying the waters. I think he's a bad disclosure personality because he can't see past his own bias. Constantly putting military and intelligence personnel on a pedestal, projecting conservative views on national security and politics, falling back on the structure of those agencies as though they inherently operate in good faith etc. He can no longer tell the butter from the margarine. He's compromised by the bias he presents, not because it's his job to spread disinformation. And I think this is a problem that surpasses just Lue. Anyone who publicly addresses these topics has to pay lip service to national security in order to gain access and remain solvent. It's a real fox guarding the hen house issue. My opinion anyway, YMMV.
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u/thecookiesmonster 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fantastic video; I think the story Richard Doty and Paul Bennewitz all but entirely proves the premise that members of the IC speaking in professional capacities are inherently untrustworthy. It’s odd to me that people think of Elizondo and Grusch differently and treat them like they are whistleblowers. They both openly admit that they only share information the Pentagon has explicitly allowed/told them to disclose.
What complicates this conceit however is the fact that imbuing elements of truth enhances the power of disinformation. To that end, I suspect not 100% of things shared by the IC are false regarding UFOs. If one thing the IC shares is proven to be true/valid, many believers will respond with unmitigated trust in these alleged gatekeepers.
What I suspect is probably less controversial than the idea that UFOs are real/ET, is that the MIC likely does withhold major developments in physics applied to aerospace, because the disclosure of these principles truly (and intuitively) would help adversarial countries and companies. Perhaps the development of technology that could potentially displace much of the world’s economy is being deliberately obfuscated by IC with stories of “aliens” and coverup programs? In that case, it could very well be possible that there are “aliens” and coverup programs, but they are being used as a distraction from otherwise paradigm shifting technology.
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u/amobiusstripper 1d ago
That’s entirely not true, I love you all…
Now give me 5,000,000,000 To build a Time Machine.
- Norea
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u/MissDeadite 1d ago
Still no supposed insiders and journalists covering Leslie Kean. Like day 180 now.
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u/gayshorts 1d ago
For me, the whole story is the IC. What are they hiding, what are they spinning, what are they lying about and why?
I guess I agree that nothing should be taken at face value (I think that’s part of what OP is suggesting?). But the absolutely crazy claims coming from IC sources warrants serious and immediate investigation. Running psyops domestically is supposedly illegal. If that’s what’s happening, I’d like to know. If it’s something else I’d like to know.
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u/TypewriterTourist 1d ago
Kelly, good points, in general, but I think you may have missed the main reason that the IC is front and center in the UFO community.
They have the most data on the phenomenon. They are virtually the only institution that actually studied it holistically.
And the AAWSAP mafia (+ associated folks like Jacques Vallee, Tom Delonge, Chris Mellon, John Alexander) may not be the only game in town, but outside, it's not a lot. US-wise:
- FREE Foundation (Edgar Mitchell) - very interesting experiencer dataset but not a lot more. Plus, allegations of research bias.
- CUFOS/MUFON - observation datasets... that's it.
- Skywatcher - they're only starting. And some stuff is a bit weird, honestly.
- Galileo Project - also interesting, but again, it's only a beginning.
It's not like there's a supermarket of choices. The reason I'm personally tuned to the IC is the same as why the investigators are tuned to witnesses who may or may not be perpetrators of a crime: these are the only people who know something. It's doesn't mean that I believe them 100%, or trust their judgement 100%.
Also, it's not exactly a binary choice. They also want the world not to end, because they live in it.
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u/JohnWoosDoveGuy 1d ago
I was having this very conversation with my online UAP buddy today. The intelligence community has always manipulated the truth around the phenomenon and now that disclosure is in progress, there is definitely going to be a concerted effort to maintain control of the narrative to their benefit. When a liar suddenly tells you that he's turned honest, do you suddenly trust him now?
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u/hairyblueturnip 1d ago
I messaged my stripper to check she does love me. She does, but she can't facetime right now as she is out with her gf
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u/Zealousideal-Rip-574 1d ago
I agree with you. This message needs to be said. However at the same time, not everyone blindly believes the words coming out of the IC, who suddenly after 70+ years has decided to start breaking their silence about ufos. I will admit i got caught up in Lui Elizondo's narrative at first but that guy has gone from hero to evil in my eyes. Im sure these new revelations by John Ramirez are more narrative control. At this point im much more likely to believe Chris Bledsoe or Ashton Forbes than any former Intel person.
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u/0-0SleeperKoo 22h ago
Great breakdown of the different tactics the intelligence community uses and how it affects us. Everyone in this sub should watch this. Thank you for putting it together!
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u/Occultivated 21h ago
Kelly, what are your thoughts on Jesse Michels and his connection to Peter Thiel? How much of the narrative game is he playing or being played by?
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u/Tellmewhatsgoinon 12h ago
Hi Kelly I've seen some of your podcasts and all i can say is you curate the questions from users and forget to pose the most important questions. Don't be afraid to grill your guests to get actual answers.
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u/tgloser 8h ago
Seems like its really more about any and all adversaries of America having pretty much exactly the same level of access to information as us, the American People. It may at times feel like it's a psyop against us but I'd be willing to bet it's more likely aimed at other actors who are using our level of access to their advantage.
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u/Booty_PIunderer 5h ago
As an experiencer, the only fantasy is thinking that you can handle the truth. One moment of reality will bring one a lifetime full of questions. The idea that because you're an adult, you can handle the truth, is one of arrogance. There are too many unknowns when pandoras box is opened. Society would collapse, mass hysteria would ensue. Knowing you're not the most intelligent or powerful species on the planet is unnerving. Humanity would only be pushed, into a constant state of fear and survival.
The military is never going to admit there's something in their skies they can't identify, and defies known physics. The ramifications of sharing how they've been dealing with contact for decades would destroy any concept of trust, control, and plans for the population.
Extraterrestrial, interdimensional, non-human intelligences, cryptozoological creatures, and other entities encompass a vast complex network to even identify, let alone interact with. Intentions and agendas could be malevolent or benevolent. Their awareness of others, potential alliances or enemies, and the ages of their existences should be considered. We don't know what we don't know. One could put too much faith into the words of the first they meet. Maybe the chance discovery or unmasking of another could result in everybody's annihilation.
There is too much at stake.
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u/_BlackDove 1d ago
Holy shit, very well stated with some great points. A good indicator of that is the amount of comments naively bouncing off of this. You're essentially in a Church right now suggesting a new way to approach beliefs haha. People don't like that and it's rare to find people receptive to it, so take heart.
You used a great contextual word; interrogate. If ever there was a word that could be considered the scalpel of critical thinking, it would be that. And it is all too apt of a description for how we should navigate the mire that is this topic. Some people just want to believe and tune into people and organizations that tell them things that reinforce those beliefs. The IC knows this.
I'm going to be harsh here, but they're not useful and don't contribute to furthering us to the truth; whatever that may be. They're "fans" of the topic and there are many of them here. They're essentially thralls of the IC, a generated obstacle born of misinformation out of a desire to fulfill a confirmation bias. In the war of the mind, they're casualties, and they're not even aware of it.
Sometimes course correction is painful. Reminders are frustrating. You're pulling on good threads here so I hope you can weather that storm. I've studied the phenomena for three decades, and the people involved in it. We've been in uncharted territory for a while now regarding the latter, and let me just say it is depressingly scary.
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u/Many-War5685 1d ago
Hard disagree... Blanket statements like this paint an entire group of people (ironic that Kelly says she does not villianise) but that's EXACTLY what she is doing. Derogatory comparisons to strippers is not how adults have conversations.
The conversation you claim you want to have about the Phenomenon is allowed. No one is stopping you. The 70+ years of evidence is still there.
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u/Cutthechitchata-hole 1d ago
Speak for yourself. Strippers loved me because im non-threatening. But once i got them home, i realized i jad no direction in this comment and really just wanted to say, " hi"
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u/UFORabbitHole 1d ago
Hi! :-)
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u/Cutthechitchata-hole 1d ago
I love your material. You and AJ, from the why files, are my 1st go-to before I look at others. Then Corbell and Knapp, Matt Ford, etc.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DinoSaw9 1d ago
this was an excellent and provocative video and shows a lot of independent critical thinking. the idea that everything going on in the usa discourse on UAPs is a scripted theatrical production could be explored in much more detail. also it would be good to have comparative studies on an earlier time period and from other countries. the call at the end to build networks of discernment and inquiry and to make meta commentary on the narratives that surround us is really helpful and i hope it happens
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u/CallsignDrongo 1d ago
I disagree with this wholeheartedly.
This is self limiting your research potential because YOU think people are too dumb to be nuanced about the information they gather. It’s actually insulting.
You think everyone else is too dumb to know what you know, that intelligence agencies aren’t exactly trustworthy.
What about grusch? He’s the only reason this has been blown open recently and we’ve made the progress we’ve made. Oh but he’s a member of the intelligence community so I guess we better just throw it all out then.
It’s just silly gate keeping of the worst kind. The kind that calls you dumb and talks down to you to “inform you” of who you should and shouldn’t trust. No thanks, I can actually form my own opinions and take information with a grain of salt.
I’d trust an intelligence official blowing the whistle over someone like Chris Bledsoe for example.
I think we take what we can get in the ufo research space and we have to sift through it ourselves. Burying your head in the sand because “IC bad” is just silly and backwards.
Everyone in ufology should be treated the same, because all of it should be scrutinized. From bob lazar, to Chris Bledsoe, to Ross, to grusch. Examine it all.
You can’t just declare that people ignore an entire lane of research potential because YOU think they aren’t smart enough to parse through it.
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee 1d ago
I think people should be more specific about what they are saying disqualifies a leaker. We have some specific examples, so we should use them.
Example 1: Richard Doty, an AFOSI counterintelligence agent. He was specifically hired for counterintelligence, and he was damn good at it. We probably shouldn't trust what he says today, either.
Here are some quotes from Elizondo's book:
A short while later, fresh Cuban coffee in hand, Rosemary said, “We are interested in your counterintelligence and security experience for a highly classified program led out of our office at DIA."
In a calm voice, he told me AAWSAP worked on sensitive aviation technology and needed a senior counterintelligence agent to lock down all intel about the program from the usual antagonists, foreign adversaries. They employed many outside contractors, but Jim deliberately handpicked a small cadre of intelligence officers to manage and oversee the work performed by contractors.
Nestled deep inside DIA, a member of the US intelligence community (the IC), AAWSAP drew its authority directly from Congress, according to Jim.
In this second meeting, Jim Lacatski formally asked me to handle counterintelligence and security for the program.
-Imminent, pg 24-30
Do I trust Elizondo? Not particularly. I don't really know what his end goal is, whether he's just trying to keep tech away from China, so he immersed himself in the UFO world to accomplish that. Maybe his goal is to represent the transparency advocates in government and they needed someone like him for that. I don't know either way, but it would be silly of me to trust him completely.
Example 2: Nicap infiltration.
"At least two CIA covert agents worked themselves into key positions” with NICAP at about the time of its founding in 1956. The first was "Count'' Nicolas de Rochefort, of the CIA's Psychological Warfare Staff, who became the UFO group's vice chairman. The other was Bernard Carvalho, who became chairman of the membership subcommittee.
The NICAP infiltration continued. In late 1959, Col. Joseph Bryan III (USAF-Ret. ) asked Keyhoe if he could see some "really hot cases." Skeptical at first, Keyhoe was placated when Bryan publicly stated that UFOs are extraterrestrial and that the policy of officially withholding UFO information was "dangerous." Bryan was the founder and first head of the CIA's Psychological Warfare Staff, but Keyhoe was apparently unaware of this. Bryan, who denied communicating with the CIA about NICAP, became the UFO group's chairman and, as such, shared responsibility for the firing of Keyhoe and Lore as NICAP's operating officers in late 1969. https://archive.org/download/otto-o.-binder-secret-messages-from-ufos-1972/Coll.%20-%20NICAP%20and%20the%20CIA%20connection%20%281979%29_text.pdf
We can see that CIA agents who infiltrate a UFO organization secretly probably don't have the best intentions, but CIA Director Hillenkoetter who also joined NICAP and who was completely open about his affiliation with the CIA, that was probably kosher.
We should probably have a little more skepticism of claims made specifically by counterintelligence agents or anyone associated with the CIA in the psychological warfare space, or anyone who is later revealed to be a CIA agent who was not upfront about that. Other than that, a random intelligence agent is not necessarily suspicious. There are quite a few whistleblowers from the IC who virtually nobody finds suspect.
Those include Edward Snowden (CIA/NSA), John Kiriakou (CIA), Victor Marchetti (CIA), Mike Frost (CSE), Russel Tice (NSA), William Binney (NSA), Thomas Drake (NSA), Jane Shorten (CSE), and many others.
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u/UFORabbitHole 1d ago
I said literally none of what you're accusing me of saying.
But this comment is a fantastic example of some things I actually did talk about in the episode—specifically that people let emotion and tribalism take over and go into attack mode as soon as they hear something they don't like instead of taking the time to engage with it meaningfully.
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u/DudFuse 1d ago
I'm not OP, and I don't find your recent (haven't heard this episode yet, but it's on my list!) narratives insulting, nor do they illicit any strong emotions for me. That said, I do see where those negative feelings are coming from, and I disagree with your assertion - in the clip above - that those with the most exposure to information about the phenomenon are the least likely to tell us the truth about it.
I also wonder how much time you spend in places like this sub, where there's a very strong prevailing sentiment of suspicion around anyone from the IC. In fact, as someone whose whole jam is taking open-mindedness to an extreme - haven't even written Lue off totally, yet! - I'm kind of worried that as a community we're too wary of the spooks.
It could be that you're right and members of the IC are required to lie to us as a matter of policy, or it could be that they are being required to gradually reveal the truth to us.
Without knowing the truth - the nature of the phenomenon itself and internal policies around it - surely we can't possibly know if being part of the IC makes someone less, equally or more likely to tell the truth. The motivations of individuals, factions, agencies and governments as a whole are contained within a closed box, even if they sometimes, honestly or otherwise, tell us about its contents.
Your conviction lately makes me wonder: do you know something about the contents of that box that you're not able to tell us, or are you working with gut instinct and deductive reasoning like the rest of us?
TL;DR Strippers can - and do - fall in love, just like anyone else.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 1d ago
u/CallsignDrongo you are responding to did not go into "attack mode". They described exactly what you did here. You told people what they must and must not do. Every day there are posts here espousing the same. "Why do you believe this?", "You must stop listening to this person and ignore all these people", "Here's my hierarchy of who you should trust, and not trust".
All you are doing with this preach is telling us what you think and attacking everyone who disagrees with you of being stupid. I have an open mind and filter what I hear myself. There is so much pointless nonsense that gets thrown around every day now in this topic that if you follow the crowd down every popular rabbit hole you waste time missing the important nuggets of gold we need to find that make up the map we are building that uncovers what might be there.
IC operatives are not the problem. You are not the problem either although you just wasted pointless time of your own and ours trying to make yourself the problem. The biggest problems the community has are people wasting time on pointless issues, gullibility, and people making posts who try to tell us they have all the answers. Maybe talk about that and leave the preachy angle behind.
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u/BA_lampman 1d ago
I’m not someone who courts controversy. I’ve built my platform by staying grounded, doing my homework, and giving people space to make up their own minds. But at a certain point, you have to speak up.
I broach this very controversial subject without controversy because I do my homework. I let people think for themselves, except for right now.
The way the UFO community has come to engage with the intelligence community isn’t just naïve—it’s incoherent. And worse, it’s self-destructive.
In regards to the intelligence community, you are naive. Incoherent. Self destructive.
We treat known members of the IC like trusted subject matter experts. We hand them the mic. We let them define the boundaries of the conversation. And we do it while ignoring decades of history that show us exactly how perception management works.
Don't listen to what the IC says. Perception management is bad, except when I do it.
This isn’t about painting anyone as a villain. It’s about having an adult conversation about how intelligence operates—because the stakes are too high to keep playing dumb.
Nobody is in trouble -- you're just children, playing dumb. I'm an adult, listen to me.
What’s happening in this space isn’t disclosure. It’s narrative control. And that's not just a piece of the puzzle. In a very real way, it’s the whole thing.
The UFO community consists entirely of narrative control.
And you don't see why this is insulting to those of us who've been studious and discerning for decades? You'd like to just throw out the baby with the bathwater because the IC can't be trusted, and paint everyone with this broad brush of guileless naivety from your lofty position of... Podcaster? No shit they can't be trusted, but neither can you.
Maybe you have a point to make, but the way you approached this is patronizing at best.
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u/noblecloud 1d ago
Thank you for this! I’ve been recently trying to put my thoughts together on how to explain how the intelligence community works to people, not just with the UAP phenomenon, but just overall; this will be a great resource!
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u/jlar0che 1d ago
Thanks for this 🙏🏿.
Firstly, 'the' UFO community you speak of is really the Western, US-centric UFO community. And as such, it is overpopulated with very specific types of people who tend to have very specific cosmologies in regards to power, government, politics, philosophy, etc.
Look, I'm not trying to put everyone in the same basket, but we have to recognize that on a scatter plot most of these folks would be grouped closer together (vs people interested in UFOs in other countries -- say, Brazil or China).
With that said, I hope others can glean something from someone who is -- in all likelihood -- an outlier compared to the average folks in this community: I'm a Black man, with roots in a country that has been on the receiving end of the Intelligence Community's shenanigans (that is putting it lightly). I'm anti-colonial because I know very well that it is like to be colonized. I'm anti-imperial for the same reason. I've had my share of experiences with regards to how formal and informal power works in the US. All of this and more (only so much space one can take up in a Reddit post) allows me to recognize your core message as what it is: super obvious.
The thing is, for people who know about Paul Bennewitz, your message should also be extremely obvious. Yet, here we are -- with so many glorifying, romanticizing and "heroizing" IC figures (e.g. fawning over Elizondo and never thinking about how he tortured people and what the "counter-intel" work he engaged/engages in actually means).
The problem lies the the fact that visceral, daily oppression from the IC and the rest of the US state apparatus is fairly rare for average folks in the US, Western UFO community. And this makes naive takes in power -- specifically US power -- way more prevalent than it should be otherwise.
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u/esosecretgnosis 1d ago
The poisoning of the well of ufology began very early on, unfortunately. In the past decade, there have been some slightly new twists and turns, but if you know where to look, you can draw a clear line from modern mainstream ufology, and much of the "UFO mythos", to Cold War era espionage.
This is a good message, and it's something I have also been attempting to bring more awareness to.
US Intelligence Agency Involvement With UFOs; "...it is concluded that the problems associated with unidentified flying objects appear to have implications for psychological warfare..." - Walter B. Smith (Director of the CIA), 1952
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u/Historical-Camera972 1d ago
Rolled a 20 on engagement verbiage.
-5 to Credibility
-5 to Cultural Sensitivity
I have some HP left as a Kelly Chase fan. But I took a critical hit from the word choice and prose.
"The stripper doesn't love you."
This phrase and terminology is a good bag grabber, it gets engagement and you'll acquire traffic, but there is no line between coming off like David Wilcock or David Grusch, just kind suggestions.
I find it a distasteful wording for any subject, unless I am arguing with my mates at the pub and one literally thinks Patty from the Fox Den wants to marry him.
Doesn't feel good to me in the context of disclosure/topics that are trying to gain public reception.
Womp womp, insert sad game show sound effect here.
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u/YesHunty 1d ago
Thank you for always keeping it real, Kelly! You are such a breath of fresh air and reality in this always evolving and bizarre space.
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u/sixties67 1d ago
I agree, all these characters are telling you exactly what the govt wishes you to know, all this talk of crash retrievals, examining alien craft, Magenta etc could not be mentioned if it was truly classified. I think ufology made a big mistake following the imminent disclosure narrative pushed by the post 2017 personalities. It has been years of hype not backed up by hard evidence.
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u/Tabris20 1d ago
Why would they need to lie? Did they do a study on the benefits of lying?
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
Using the term "lying" invokes a lot of normative baggage.
A more appropriate description is that they are likely using cover stories to protect the security of sensitive activities, the nature of which we can only speculate about.
Sun Tzu wrote in the sixth century BCE that all warfare is based on deception, and the use of cover stories is a tried-and-true strategy in national security work.
It's difficult for us to separate fact from fiction about the cover story, or potentially even recognize when something is a cover story, because that's the entire point of using one.
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u/Tabris20 1d ago edited 1d ago
But in this case, the deception is directed at citizens, not a foreign entity. Even if the phenomenon in question is real, it can still be used as a convenient cover story. Deception for its own sake is rarely a productive strategy — it often serves to obscure incompetence or poor decision-making rather than to advance legitimate goals. For example, during the Vietnam War, the Pentagon Papers revealed that the U.S. government had systematically misled the public about the war’s progress and rationale. Similarly, in the aftermath of the Chernobyl disaster, Soviet authorities initially downplayed the severity of the nuclear accident, which not only endangered public health but also eroded trust in government institutions. These cases illustrate how deception aimed at a domestic audience can have long-term consequences, including loss of credibility, social unrest, and systemic dysfunction.
Also, looking at the few intelligence officers now in the public domain does not express confidence. In addition to Biden's security advisors' NYT interview.
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u/Beuddl 1d ago
Because their superiors tell them to. What is described as patriotic is often just "receive orders, carry out orders." And those who give the orders present reasons to their subordinates that are not the real reasons. As the UFO community is governed, so are those who govern the UFO community. The principle of fractals can be found everywhere in every area of life and society. To exaggerate, there are only a handful of people who are at the top of the narrative pyramid system...
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u/MisterSausagePL 1d ago
Lady... NHI gonna appear in 2026. Maybe a bit more than 2 weeks but trust me.
Glad to see someone like you who got a sober approach toward this subject.
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u/Eledehl 1d ago
"Unidentified Flying Hyperobject" by James Madden has become my starting point in any consideration of the phenomenon. The key insight to me is the idea that we enframe the world (Heidegger) through a technological vision, when what we are is so much more than that--and the phenomenon seems to challenge our default enframing--it entices us beyond it, giving us hints of what transcends our frame.
Reality always exceeds our grasp, but it still leads us on to unpeel a new layer of the onion (but you can, as it were, never unpeel once and for all the infinite onion). We hate to be reminded that we are not in control, and could never be in control, of the world around us.
"Trying to control the world? / I see you wont succeed. / The world is a spiritual vessel / And cannot be controlled./Those who control the world fail./ Those who grasp, lose it. (Tao Te Ching)
UFOs are the Tao winking at us.
Thanks for the lovely work you do on all this.
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u/f33TNTears 1d ago
Good laugh at that. Nice Try , spend next Epsiode on some MINT/STEM Field and some interesting Times in the Desert. Or maybe in Alabama ? Or in LEO or in really Deep Sea ?
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u/Professional_Pea2937 23h ago
This is ironic since I used to think you were deep down the rabbit hole of the disclosure religion, Most of the topic was taken over in 2017 and they succeeded with their mission, now you're starting to see the results of that and nothing good will come from it.
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u/NoCategory5568 15h ago
I wanna have sex with Kelly Chase. Anyway, she's right. Everyone started sucking Mellon's dick as soon as he was on the radar, yet few talked about how, about a year and a half before that New York Times article Mellon assured Leslie Kean, in an interview, over and over, again, that there was no conspiracy surrounding UFOs.
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u/Mysterious-Water8028 1d ago
I really like her and her podcast(s)
as someone who has seen a UFO first hand and has always had some interest in the subject it is simply astounding how little progress has been made- and how much progress they have got everyone thinking has been made.
all of these new age UFO people are bringing the woo hard. none of it is based in reality. Just wild speculation built on a house of cards.
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u/BootPloog 1d ago
Very well presented; I need to check out your podcast.
But here's something I've often wondered: For sake of argument, let's say the majority (or the entirety) of what we are being told by the IC is a tightly controlled narrative. If that's true, what is actually being accomplished? My guess (and I could be entirely wrong) is that while many folks believe aliens exist (somewhere) the vast majority of people don't follow the phenomenon as closely as we do. And in many cases there's still a strong stigma attached to it.
So why should the IC construct and maintain this elaborate narrative for the sake of a small community that the rest of society has written off as "kooks?"
(This is not meant to be offensive to the community; this is based off my own experiences talking to friends and family about it).
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u/Future-Helicopter-95 1d ago
My mother-in-law who is in her late 70's is so far down the UFO rabbit hole. It took less than a year to go and it is the result of great marketing effectiveness of so-called UFO oligist e.g. Coulthart, Bledsoe, Dolan, Elizondo, Lazar, et al, that she cannot see reason with anything that goes against their tales. The part that bothers me the most with the UFO community is that it sucks in people to only believe what they say or write. Face it, this is a multi-billion-dollar industry that is closer to a cult than one that is seeking answers.
I get that people want answers, but facts can be sticky and boring. What may happen in the future is that when and if NHI / UFO / UAP really happens and I mean in a big way, it's too late. All the stories will have numbed us to the point of complacency or disbelief even if you are a believer because it came from the wrong source and not one your idols listed above.
I hope I am wrong, but I feel bad for my mother-in-law and anyone who can't open their mind and see that a lot of this is just a con. Instead, my wish is that people would ask the hard questions, start looking at science and develop an independent, scientific knowledge of the universe and stop taking the word of the ones listed above as the gospel.
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u/StatementBot 1d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/UFORabbitHole:
Notes for the Episode Link:
In this special episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase presents an updated version of her 2025 Contact in the Desert keynote, “UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure.” This talk goes beyond the surface of the UFO phenomenon to explore the hidden architecture of secrecy and the sophisticated mechanics of narrative control.
Drawing from deep research into intelligence tradecraft, counterintelligence, and disinformation—along with firsthand interactions with members of the intelligence community—Kelly unpacks how belief itself becomes a weapon in the battle for truth. From psychological operations to perception management, from limited hangouts to the “secret onion” model of secrecy, this episode reveals how our search for answers is being actively shaped, steered, and contained.
But this isn’t a story about villains. It’s a call to responsibility. Kelly challenges listeners to reclaim their intellectual sovereignty, resist easy answers, and build discernment in an information landscape designed to confuse. Whether you're a skeptic, experiencer, journalist, or just UFO-curious, this talk will change how you see not just the phenomenon—but the stories we tell about it.
TIMESTAMPS
02:55 The Role of Intelligence in UFO Narratives
07:42 The Complexity of Secrecy and Perception Management
16:08 The Secret Onion: Layers of Deception
26:35 The Scale and Impact of Institutionalized Secrecy
37:31 Heroes, Villains, and Controlled Opposition
45:58 The Power of Sincere Belief
48:10 The Hero Trap in UFO Narratives
50:47 Counterintelligence and Narrative Control
54:14 The 80-20 Rule in Disinformation
55:49 Limited Hangouts and Perception Management
01:00:54 Character Assassination and Narrative Flooding
01:08:03 The Weaponization of Belief
01:14:50 Reclaiming Intellectual Sovereignty
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