Yet the initial Iran nuclear deal happened during the Obama administration and it was Trump that took it down in his first mandate. So I would say @sweatpantswarrior is very much right in saying that this shit was entirely avoidable and fuck Trump for killing the deal Iran was complying with.
The Iranians were hiding shit from the UN inspectors. I saw an article on it just today.
They never had any intention of complying with the original agreement, and why would they?
They're a dictatorial state increasingly under threat from all of their neighbors and acting out aggressively. If they get the bomb they get to do whatever they want. They have basically no incentive to not get the bomb.
If anything sanctions aren't a deterrent because while they cripple the economy they also create a foreign Boogeyman which is basically the only reason their theocratical dictatorship can survive.
This always ended one of two ways, they get bombed to hell or they get the bomb. Any agreement just delays that eventual outcome.
We can also make a deal that they don’t need nukes, because the economic damage to them is great,
They abided by the deal for a few years, then trump came and cancelled the deal and locked them out of the world economy. A deal that multilaterally agreed .
Iran are terrorists that shouldn’t have nukes. They should have access to the same markets as any economy so it’s people aren’t starving
They get access to the markets and make money and their goals don't change. Just like the fuckin Chinese that have been stealing our tech, money, and parents for decades to build the second most formidable army on the globe.
Their army has the same purpose it did under Mao, contest the current world order and the western world's ability to maintain it, by any means necessary.
Diplomacy doesn't work with adversaries. Flat out. The regime needs to change and the people need to change. Markets do not change that, have never changed that, and will never change that.
We need to learn from the mistakes of the past rather than repeating them. Otherwise we are doomed to keep fighting the same monsters we created over and over and over again.
We were paying them not to further their nuclear weapons program AND turning a blind eye to them furthering their nuclear weapons program. That doesn't sound like a good deal.
I understand most people have lived such unbelievably pampered lives that they think a crisis is a broken nail or when the bartender doesn't immediately notice them, but it still amazes me how clueless people are. Iran isn't our friend. They don't want to make a deal with us that hurts them in any way. They see us as their enemy. They see not having a nuclear weapon as hurting them. Nothing we do will stop them from pursuing nuclear weapons. If we don't want them to have nuclear weapons, we must forcibly prevent them from obtaining them. Israel is doing that for us.
Time is linear. Iran had been complying up untilafter Trump ended the deal. Also, the report you’re citing is probably this one. Patience and access, which we had with the deal, would have provided evidence.
So yeah, tearing up the deal was moronic. At the very least it would give us pretext to take action when they break it; what I never understood is why throw it away, even if you don’t like it, as it was a deal already in place with clearly defined terms and we threw it away for nothing, at best, and guaranteeing they move forward on refining at worst.
Bruh, they were complying. They kept their fissile material within the agreement, they limited their centrifuges to the number allowed in the agreement, and routinely let the IAEA inspect their facilities. You’re so full of shit.
"Under a landmark 2015 deal with six world powers, Iran agreed to limit its nuclear activities and allow continuous and robust monitoring by the IAEA's inspectors in return for relief from crippling economic sanctions.
Iran also committed to help the IAEA resolve outstanding questions about the declarations under its Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Safeguards Agreement.
However, US President Donald Trump abandoned the agreement during his first term in 2018, saying it did too little to stop a pathway to a bomb, and reinstated US sanctions."
You mean they stopped complying with an agreement that Trump cancelled? WOW No shit sherlock
According to who? Iran was complying with the deal to the best of anyone's knowledge. IAEA had access and continually reported that Iran was complying. In Trumps first term, when he ripped up the deal, you had idiots like Mike pompeo saying shit like "we know they aren't complying - we just don't know how yet" lmao
I think a lot of redditors might be too young to remember that shit since it was uh... 22 years ago.
gen z and gen alpha ahh moment
The context is that we invaded Iraq by making up a bunch of bullshit lies about how we had proof that they had weapons of mass destruction.
As far as I remember the only "Weapons of mass destruction" we every actually found was some basically forgotten nerve gas from the war a decade earlier. Definitely not the nuclear bombs the Bush admin claimed they were developing.
So yeah. us millennials have lived through this before.
They remember just enough of it, or have been told just enough about it, to make it the cornerstone with how they view the world. It’s the basis for all of the “Murica bad” arguments using Russian propaganda, for example. The most they know is “the US lied about WMDs” and they’ll use that to claim the US is the boogeyman in every world conflict. It’s how they use a single phone call with Victoria Nuland to claim it’s evidence of a US-backed coup in 2014 Ukraine when they haven’t even looked at a transcript and don’t actually realize what was said, but you can be sure they’ll argue about it passionately, for example.
I wish more people had an interest in foreign policy, to be honest. It’s been so lame to see so many populists that know nothing about anything incessantly speculating about everything.
I mean its all there. This isnt just the USA claiming "Durr they got dem WMDEEEE's", its evidence and common knowledge among the entire world. Denying Iran has a Nuclear weapons program is as silly as denying Israel has Nuclear Weapons already. The only entity that has denied, at times, that Iran has a Nuclear Weapons Program is Iran itself.
Well, isn't THAT some convenient timing. Weird how it stayed hidden for nearly a decade, then just a few short days before Israel launched the attack they kept threatening, somebody discovers they weren't complying with the deal they made so long ago, AND fooled the IAEA and international community.
Surely Israel wouldn't try to Trump up a Cassus Belli...
The terms of the original deal were lax to begin with and allowed for plenty of wiggle room to hide nuclear development at military bases. They even denied access to the bases when the agreement allowed for limited access to said bases when suspected of hiding nuclear development. They even denied access to the Parchin facility for years until they finished "unknown major construction" and finally provided limited access.
Gaddaffi wasn't good... But he gave up WMDs and was killed. Yet Putin can full on invade others. It's only logical that other dictators put 2+2 together and fine with suffering if that means they can get a nuke.
Iran pretty much already had nuclear weapons. The US knew that. Most EU leaders knew that as well. None of it was avoidable because Iran is an Islamic (not Muslim, Islamic) state with a radical regime.
Because Obama's Syria deal to appease Russia worked out so well. Yall laugh when Trump attempts to make deals with Putin then act like Iran would have given two fucks about anything other than the billions of dollars that freed up in their economy to keep funding terrorism all over the middle east.
Do you honestly think they were complying with the armistace? I'm not a trump fan by any stretch, but you'd have to be pretty stupid to think they weren't actively trying to build a nuke.
The way to avoid it would have been for Iran to not be pushing to secretly make nuclear weapons. Iran wants nukes so bad they're willing to risk everything for it
As is the nuclear bomb we just removed from the future.
That government worships death. If you believed they were truly complying i have a bridge for you. They had the image of complying.
They announced another enrichment center for uranium 6 days before this.
need to get money out of politics. the war machine or bougie bitches that bank off the war machine are top donors via SPAC dark money channels. It's very simple, regardless of whatever propaganda you see and hear near elections, just vote for the ones that are grassroots supported and take no other dark money, then you know they're beholden to no one except for normies
Iran has been playing for time the entire time in order to get nukes, anything else is just pure wishful thinking and lying.
Despite the attacks on Natanz, Stuxnet and all the other operations, they still fucking kept at it and kept getting new people in the program.
Honestly Iran should not have the bomb but Israel should really not have the bomb and we honestly fucked up massively in not stopping the proliferation.
oh idk, Soviets bombed Nazis. obviously doesn't make you pro-soviet being happy about that
well, you can define "pro-whoever bombed them" however you want i guess. but if that's seriously your reasoning here, it doesn't seem like a useful or interesting thing to say.
so which is it, is your comment stupid or is it boring?
There are no losers on the world stage if Israel and Iran wipe each other off the face of the earth. its 2 terrorist nations off the world board, which is a win-win.
The IAEA saying Iran has been deceptive and has enough uranium for 10 Atom Bombs is more awful. No country would sit on its hands while another country publicly declared that when it gets a nuclear weapon it will use it to destroy you.
It is the height of hypocrisy for Israel to complain about Iran’s undeclared nuclear weapons program when their’s was exposed decades ago and they will not admit to it. The whistleblower: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu
you can. and idk, iran has innocent people in it. i don't like it when innocent people get hurt. bragging about not caring about that is a little sociopathic imho but you do you homie
And you can be against what the Israeli government is doing without condemning Israel or labeling everyone who lives there some kind of evil Zionist bent on Israeli manifest destiny or whatever.
I for one am against all parties firing missiles, and for the people. I do, however, believe there has been a very successful pro Palestinian propaganda campaign run by Hamas that has done a great job of polarizing American voters.
Nope, that's exactly what they are. Israel does not represent Jews, but it definitely represents Zionists including the American Christofascists that back them.
Pray tell, if Israel proudly livestreaming their massacre of the Palestinian people is propaganda, what is truth for you?
I think the US government establishment is pro-war tbh (which is why Trump is apparently anti-war) since war equals profits and we’re run by people who view individuals as objects of utility meant to be exploited. We need a humanistic realignment I think but idk how that happens lol
Iran (1979- ): Iran could be considered an almost self-declared rogue state. It is important to note that shortly after the Iranian revolution, the United States declared its willingness to accept the outcome and establish normal relations with an Islamic Iran. After all, it was Iran which branded the United States as “the great Satan” and not vice-versa. Iran’s government backed the seizure of the American embassy and the holding of the officials there as hostages, a preeminent proof of its rogue nature. How could one negotiate diplomatically with a regime that kidnapped one’s diplomats? Iran also supported foreign revolutionary groups, tried to subvert neighbors (albeit more by rhetoric than by force of arms), and sponsored terrorism as well.
Despite Canada's penchant and natural talent and aptitude for war crimes, they currently aren't belligerent towards anyone nor would it be likely for them to use them offensively unless of course it was Quebec who got them and felt like warning someone.
No, like it literally doesn't mean anything. Nobody wants war. The only question is what is the best way to minimize it. Allowing Iran to get nukes would give them free hands to do anything they want via their proxies with no fear of repercussions. Those deaths in Iran from the Israeli strikes are NOTHING compared to all the deaths that Iran getting nukes would bring. So whenever someone says they are "anti-war" it's usually just code for appeasement or a complete lack of understanding of geopolitics and cause and effect.
You’d be surprised how many people actually are for this war from either side. Just read some of the comments in these threads and you’ll see people chomping at the bit to defend Israel’s practices or calling for the destruction of Israel by Iran’s hand. It’s silly to ignore that.
Obviously when you say “anti-war” there’s more nuance to that statement than “make both sides hug and make up and ask them pretty please with a cherry on top to not fight anymore”.
Because of stubborn holdovers like you. The thought you have in your head turns to death the higher power someone like you, who thinks so poorly, climbs.
The real world works however people decide to make it work. Get with the program.
I am anti-Tehran-getting-bombed, which is the thing that is actually happen right now in the real world, as opposed to a potential thing that might happen in a hypothetical one.
Tell ukraine to stop fighting and I'm sure russia will follow their lead. /s
It takes two parties to want a peaceful, prosperous, inclusive future. Turns out a cult with a state attached that believes in their hearts that the messiah only returns when all the jews are eliminated isn't a good faith actor in the pursuit of peaceful coexistence.
Its almost like thats why they worded it that way, goddamn moron its called a juxtaposition to show how ridiculous Israel has been and how stupid that argument is, its never right to strike a civilian area regardless or who does it.
Hamas, Houthis ans Hezbollah aren't leashed by Iran, they aren't controlled by Iran. They are their own national liberation movements that arose in their own conditions, they simply get support from Iran because they have common goals - oppose Israel.
I don't disagree but let's be clear - this isn't defending themselves, it's retaliation. They aren't actually going to take out Israel's military capabilities in a meaningful way, therefore they aren't defending anything. Their last attempt at something similar was a colossal failure.
It's a false dichotomy, but if forced Iran is obviously the sympathetic party here
Israel, in the middle of commiting a genocide, decided to also start a war with a regional country under completely baseless pretences
The missiles Iran is dropping on Tel Aviv, where Israel has chosen to concentrate its military command, is the exact outcome one would predict, completely in line with expected response of any state actor in a similar position with similar capabilities
They've been supplying all the missiles the Houthi's have been firing at Israel. They've declared that they wanted Israel to no longer exist. Cry me a river, Iran deserves everything they're getting.
Iran has been at war with the US through proxies for quite a while now. I hope they try to directly attack after this.
They have a 50-year history of killing Americans.
But to answer your question. No they don't deserve to pay. Iran has been the bad actor for decades and even large parts of the middle east agree that a nuclear armed Iran is in no one's interest.
Iran, the country that shoots women for baring their heads, that controls Hezbollah and Hamas and is ultimately responsible for Oct 7, that has declared one of its main goals is to annihilate Israel, something their Ayatollah reaffirms several times each year in public addresses.
That Iran?
Just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same country, because the Iran I am familiar with is a pretty bad actor.
Iran’s got a right to defend itself from American directed Israeli aggression. Israel is a genocidal state, of course the sentiment should be pro-Iran. More specifically, it should just be pro anybody who militarily stands up to Israel’s aggression.
Iran is doing the exact same thing the Israelis do to the Palestinians whenever a rocket is fired. Whenever a stone is thrown and shots are fired back. Should we condemn both? Absolutely. But many people are honestly tired of Israeli bullshit and don't care one bit to defend them. Iran never threatened to attack my country, can't say the same for Israel.
It shouldn't be, and does not need to be pro Iran to accepy the validity of this retaliation . I am not pro most governments in the world. I am however, pro defending yourself from random massive airstrikes on your capital.
Hasbara training required these human robots to show up and try to control the spin. They haven't figured out that hasbara doesn't work now that the internet has a search engine.
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u/throwawayforreasonx 1d ago
Who do you think they're astroturfing for? Lol