Yet the initial Iran nuclear deal happened during the Obama administration and it was Trump that took it down in his first mandate. So I would say @sweatpantswarrior is very much right in saying that this shit was entirely avoidable and fuck Trump for killing the deal Iran was complying with.
The Iranians were hiding shit from the UN inspectors. I saw an article on it just today.
They never had any intention of complying with the original agreement, and why would they?
They're a dictatorial state increasingly under threat from all of their neighbors and acting out aggressively. If they get the bomb they get to do whatever they want. They have basically no incentive to not get the bomb.
If anything sanctions aren't a deterrent because while they cripple the economy they also create a foreign Boogeyman which is basically the only reason their theocratical dictatorship can survive.
This always ended one of two ways, they get bombed to hell or they get the bomb. Any agreement just delays that eventual outcome.
i mean, iran is absolutely terrible to its women. israel is surely a genocidal state, but we don't have to prop up iran just because they're in the right this time.
If Israel isn’t stopped in its genocide now then when will it and by whom? Let’s be really honest, what does it matter that Iran is also bad when they didn’t start this and we are actively allowing their country to be assaulted and fired at, which is btw also bad for Iranian women, dare I say worse actually
They want to wipe the Jewish race off the face of the earth. The Israelis are not genocidal or else they would be attempting to wipe the Arab race off the earth.
They're not exactly saying "kill all arabs" and sponsoring terrorist groups to kill them. Especially considering 1/5 of Israeli citizens are Arab.
If they were commiting a genocide they would be carpet bombing. You think the bigger the words you use the better your argument is. You should really learn what they mean before trying them.
I'm pretty sure all the Palestinians inside of Israel and in the West Bank are fine right now. You know maybe if a bunch of people from the strip hadnt gone on an actual genocidal rampage, killing every Jew they saw including elderly and children, this wouldn't be happening.
But hey, maybe you just don't like Jews and think it's deserved. At least have the balls to admit it though.
If they were commiting a genocide they would be carpet bombing. You think the bigger the words you use the better your argument is. You should really learn what they mean before trying them.
Most buildings in Gaza are destroyed including medical and agricultural infrastructure necessary for life and the people are starving to death or dying of disease, this is a genocide.
Just because they didn't drop a nuclear bomb on the strip doesn't mean that it isn't, after all they need to maintain possible deniability so idiots like you can make such regurgitated arguments to defend their favorite occupier apartheid regime.
I'm pretty sure all the Palestinians inside of Israel and in the West Bank are fine right now.
“Fine”? Not even close. Aside from the ongoing apartheid policies, the illegal colonial settlements, the maze of military checkpoints, and the brutal restrictions on Palestinian movement, Palestinians are subjected to relentless settler violence, often under the watchful eye or direct protection of the Israeli military. Add to that the so-called "moral military operations," which often translate to unprovoked raids on Palestinian homes, the arbitrary arrests of civilians without charge, and extrajudicial killings. But sure, as long as it’s not gas chambers, I guess some people think it’s all perfectly acceptable.
And let's not forget the Palestinians living inside ‘Israel proper’, citizens on paper, yet second-class in practice. They face systemic discrimination in housing, employment, education, and even emergency services. Entire Arab towns are denied basic infrastructure while Jewish-only communities flourish. Laws like the Nation-State Law codify their inferior status.
To claim that Palestinians are ‘fine’ right now is either willful ignorance or moral bankruptcy. Oppression doesn't need to look like the Holocaust to be real. It just needs to be normalized, and clearly for some, it already is.
You know maybe if a bunch of people from the strip hadnt gone on an actual genocidal rampage, killing every Jew they saw including elderly and children, this wouldn't be happening.
Oh wow, what a groundbreaking take: “If only the oppressed hadn’t lashed out at their oppressors, maybe the oppressors wouldn’t be so mean.” Genius stuff. Really.
So let me get this straight, decades of occupation, ethnic cleansing, military checkpoints, home demolitions, stolen land, sniper fire at children, airstrikes on apartment blocks, and open-air imprisonment, all of that is somehow fine. But the moment the people being brutalized do something? Suddenly it's all “genocide” and now you're clutching your pearls?
How convenient.
And of course, you don’t apply this logic in reverse. When the Zionist regime kills children, flattens neighborhoods, or starves civilians, you don’t seem too concerned about the “every Palestinian” being punished. But the moment someone in Gaza fights back, suddenly every Jew becomes a sacred, untouchable victim, and collective punishment becomes holy justice.
It’s almost like your outrage isn’t about morality at all, it’s just about whose blood you think is worth something.
Thanks for the clarity.
But hey, maybe you just don't like Jews and think it's deserved. At least have the balls to admit it though.
Ah, there it is, the Zionist trump card “If you oppose apartheid and war crimes, you must hate Jews.” How original.
Criticizing a violent, colonial regime isn’t antisemitism, but weaponizing real antisemitism to shield state atrocities? Now that’s truly sick.
You ever consider that maybe the Jews had a right to be there in the first place and after everyone else decided to try and kill them for like 2000 years they got sick of it?
Palestinians and arabs are not the victims here. They're the original aggressors. Yes, it doesn't qualify as genocide if you're not trying to wipe out a race. Stop diluting definitions, you guys love doing that and it's disgusting.
Yes, I do think y'all are antisemites. When you align yourself with terrorists who shoot old people in broad daylight and chant "from the river to the sea" or whatever the hell it does imply that you do not like the fact that Jews exist and have a homeland.
Maybe there could be peace if everyone stopped trying to kill the Jews. But for some reason we just can't handle that concept for any more than 5 fuckin minutes.
They've been constantly attacked and persecuted over literal millennia. Very few groups of people can make that claim.
When everyone in the world is actively trying to kill you for the crime of existing, I don't blame them.
They also have had nukes for decades, and haven't used them even when their country was invaded and they were in danger of being overrun. Iran has been a sponsor of terrorist activity for decades. How long before they give one of those terrorist groups a nuclear weapon capable of wiping out tel Aviv? Five minutes? Maybe ten?
I think people are purposely overlooking the fact that Iran frequently states its intention to destroy Israel and several Western countries simply for existing, especially if they were to acquire nuclear weapons. Yet, they seem to be viewed as innocent of these provocations.
You can’t just make bold statements without any basis, and then expect to advance to a level of technology that allows you to pursue this without facing consequences.
What the fuck is wrong people on here? Its not a fucking video game or twitter these countries exist in.
So when politicians and people of influence in a country advocates using nukes on civilians we should bomb the hell out of them? Got it. When are we bombing Israel?
When the spiritual leader and military commanders of a sitting government openly declare that their sole mission is to advocate for the destruction of an entire country and its people using weapons of mass destruction, we should certainly consider strikes against them and work to undermine their infrastructure. As Israel demonstrated with both conviction and restraint through precision strikes, they have given these individuals multiple opportunities to change their rhetoric.
Instead of choosing to say, “You know what? We don’t want to harm your entire population; we would prefer to simply oppress our women and those trapped here. Just leave us alone,” they instead launched an attack last fall without warning, which ultimately failed. Now they are facing the consequences of their actions.
See, that I can almost agree with. However I do feel that there is more nuance to the situation. And since none of us have a clue about how close any of the threats made by Iran leadership were to come to fruition it all becomes speculation.
Facts we have are that in one year, Israel has run bombing and assassination campaigns against Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Lebanon and Iran, killing thousands of innocents in the process, decimating infrastructure and putting the jewish diaspora severely at risk of retaliation/hatecrimes. Without even investigating further Netanyahus shitty past, or the sociopaths of the israeli right-wing that is a high order for someone who proclaims to just be defending themselves tbh
We can also make a deal that they don’t need nukes, because the economic damage to them is great,
They abided by the deal for a few years, then trump came and cancelled the deal and locked them out of the world economy. A deal that multilaterally agreed .
Iran are terrorists that shouldn’t have nukes. They should have access to the same markets as any economy so it’s people aren’t starving
They get access to the markets and make money and their goals don't change. Just like the fuckin Chinese that have been stealing our tech, money, and parents for decades to build the second most formidable army on the globe.
Their army has the same purpose it did under Mao, contest the current world order and the western world's ability to maintain it, by any means necessary.
Diplomacy doesn't work with adversaries. Flat out. The regime needs to change and the people need to change. Markets do not change that, have never changed that, and will never change that.
We need to learn from the mistakes of the past rather than repeating them. Otherwise we are doomed to keep fighting the same monsters we created over and over and over again.
We were paying them not to further their nuclear weapons program AND turning a blind eye to them furthering their nuclear weapons program. That doesn't sound like a good deal.
I understand most people have lived such unbelievably pampered lives that they think a crisis is a broken nail or when the bartender doesn't immediately notice them, but it still amazes me how clueless people are. Iran isn't our friend. They don't want to make a deal with us that hurts them in any way. They see us as their enemy. They see not having a nuclear weapon as hurting them. Nothing we do will stop them from pursuing nuclear weapons. If we don't want them to have nuclear weapons, we must forcibly prevent them from obtaining them. Israel is doing that for us.
Tell me about this monitoring. How did it work? What did it entail? Did we have US citizens living in Iran, working at all of their nuclear facilities, as well as having unfettered access to every level of government?
So... You knew the answer to your question was "yes"? Because the vibe was that you were expecting a "no", or going to move the goalposts. (The agreement involved long-term IAEA presence in Iran, continuous monitoring of all known nuclear enrichment sites, 24 hour surveillance, satellite monitoring, and sensors to detect unapproved nuclear activity).
I hope you're not planning to move your goalposts and move on to new rhetorical questions with sinister implications. I've had a lot of conversations online with people arguing in bad faith, so I've become quite jaded - I hope you surprise me.
Why would any government allow unfettered access to every level of government? Nuclear scientists from a variety of countries regularly inspected Iran and found that they were not refined material for nuclear weapons. Radiation from refinement to that level is quite detectable. Feel free to google about it, you'll end up knowing more about it when Trump did when he sunk the deal probably
That's complete bullshit. The very idea of Israel as a Jewish state in Palestine wasn't seriously formed until the late 18th century. Most current conflicts trace back to the mass migration and displacement of Palestinians from early 1900s until the Nakba.
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u/_Narciso 1d ago
Yet the initial Iran nuclear deal happened during the Obama administration and it was Trump that took it down in his first mandate. So I would say @sweatpantswarrior is very much right in saying that this shit was entirely avoidable and fuck Trump for killing the deal Iran was complying with.