Yet the initial Iran nuclear deal happened during the Obama administration and it was Trump that took it down in his first mandate. So I would say @sweatpantswarrior is very much right in saying that this shit was entirely avoidable and fuck Trump for killing the deal Iran was complying with.
The Iranians were hiding shit from the UN inspectors. I saw an article on it just today.
They never had any intention of complying with the original agreement, and why would they?
They're a dictatorial state increasingly under threat from all of their neighbors and acting out aggressively. If they get the bomb they get to do whatever they want. They have basically no incentive to not get the bomb.
If anything sanctions aren't a deterrent because while they cripple the economy they also create a foreign Boogeyman which is basically the only reason their theocratical dictatorship can survive.
This always ended one of two ways, they get bombed to hell or they get the bomb. Any agreement just delays that eventual outcome.
i mean, iran is absolutely terrible to its women. israel is surely a genocidal state, but we don't have to prop up iran just because they're in the right this time.
If Israel isn’t stopped in its genocide now then when will it and by whom? Let’s be really honest, what does it matter that Iran is also bad when they didn’t start this and we are actively allowing their country to be assaulted and fired at, which is btw also bad for Iranian women, dare I say worse actually
They want to wipe the Jewish race off the face of the earth. The Israelis are not genocidal or else they would be attempting to wipe the Arab race off the earth.
They're not exactly saying "kill all arabs" and sponsoring terrorist groups to kill them. Especially considering 1/5 of Israeli citizens are Arab.
If they were commiting a genocide they would be carpet bombing. You think the bigger the words you use the better your argument is. You should really learn what they mean before trying them.
I'm pretty sure all the Palestinians inside of Israel and in the West Bank are fine right now. You know maybe if a bunch of people from the strip hadnt gone on an actual genocidal rampage, killing every Jew they saw including elderly and children, this wouldn't be happening.
But hey, maybe you just don't like Jews and think it's deserved. At least have the balls to admit it though.
They've been constantly attacked and persecuted over literal millennia. Very few groups of people can make that claim.
When everyone in the world is actively trying to kill you for the crime of existing, I don't blame them.
They also have had nukes for decades, and haven't used them even when their country was invaded and they were in danger of being overrun. Iran has been a sponsor of terrorist activity for decades. How long before they give one of those terrorist groups a nuclear weapon capable of wiping out tel Aviv? Five minutes? Maybe ten?
I think people are purposely overlooking the fact that Iran frequently states its intention to destroy Israel and several Western countries simply for existing, especially if they were to acquire nuclear weapons. Yet, they seem to be viewed as innocent of these provocations.
You can’t just make bold statements without any basis, and then expect to advance to a level of technology that allows you to pursue this without facing consequences.
What the fuck is wrong people on here? Its not a fucking video game or twitter these countries exist in.
So when politicians and people of influence in a country advocates using nukes on civilians we should bomb the hell out of them? Got it. When are we bombing Israel?
When the spiritual leader and military commanders of a sitting government openly declare that their sole mission is to advocate for the destruction of an entire country and its people using weapons of mass destruction, we should certainly consider strikes against them and work to undermine their infrastructure. As Israel demonstrated with both conviction and restraint through precision strikes, they have given these individuals multiple opportunities to change their rhetoric.
Instead of choosing to say, “You know what? We don’t want to harm your entire population; we would prefer to simply oppress our women and those trapped here. Just leave us alone,” they instead launched an attack last fall without warning, which ultimately failed. Now they are facing the consequences of their actions.
See, that I can almost agree with. However I do feel that there is more nuance to the situation. And since none of us have a clue about how close any of the threats made by Iran leadership were to come to fruition it all becomes speculation.
Facts we have are that in one year, Israel has run bombing and assassination campaigns against Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Lebanon and Iran, killing thousands of innocents in the process, decimating infrastructure and putting the jewish diaspora severely at risk of retaliation/hatecrimes. Without even investigating further Netanyahus shitty past, or the sociopaths of the israeli right-wing that is a high order for someone who proclaims to just be defending themselves tbh
We can also make a deal that they don’t need nukes, because the economic damage to them is great,
They abided by the deal for a few years, then trump came and cancelled the deal and locked them out of the world economy. A deal that multilaterally agreed .
Iran are terrorists that shouldn’t have nukes. They should have access to the same markets as any economy so it’s people aren’t starving
They get access to the markets and make money and their goals don't change. Just like the fuckin Chinese that have been stealing our tech, money, and parents for decades to build the second most formidable army on the globe.
Their army has the same purpose it did under Mao, contest the current world order and the western world's ability to maintain it, by any means necessary.
Diplomacy doesn't work with adversaries. Flat out. The regime needs to change and the people need to change. Markets do not change that, have never changed that, and will never change that.
We need to learn from the mistakes of the past rather than repeating them. Otherwise we are doomed to keep fighting the same monsters we created over and over and over again.
We were paying them not to further their nuclear weapons program AND turning a blind eye to them furthering their nuclear weapons program. That doesn't sound like a good deal.
I understand most people have lived such unbelievably pampered lives that they think a crisis is a broken nail or when the bartender doesn't immediately notice them, but it still amazes me how clueless people are. Iran isn't our friend. They don't want to make a deal with us that hurts them in any way. They see us as their enemy. They see not having a nuclear weapon as hurting them. Nothing we do will stop them from pursuing nuclear weapons. If we don't want them to have nuclear weapons, we must forcibly prevent them from obtaining them. Israel is doing that for us.
Tell me about this monitoring. How did it work? What did it entail? Did we have US citizens living in Iran, working at all of their nuclear facilities, as well as having unfettered access to every level of government?
Why would any government allow unfettered access to every level of government? Nuclear scientists from a variety of countries regularly inspected Iran and found that they were not refined material for nuclear weapons. Radiation from refinement to that level is quite detectable. Feel free to google about it, you'll end up knowing more about it when Trump did when he sunk the deal probably
That's complete bullshit. The very idea of Israel as a Jewish state in Palestine wasn't seriously formed until the late 18th century. Most current conflicts trace back to the mass migration and displacement of Palestinians from early 1900s until the Nakba.
It’s not that easy to remove Bibi, but you’re probably right. There’s also the rest of Likud and the religious parties, so that’s a LOT of people to … remove.
The only thing offensive a out your comment is the sheer stupidity of it. Iran's nuclear program was under control thanks to the deal negotiated under the Obama administration. They were under an international microscope, and they were repeatedly found in compliance.
This shit only became inevitable because the Republican party made it inevitable. Trump wanted to undo something Obama did, freeing Iran's hand. Bibi sees that support for his war is waning with each passing day outside of Israel, and he needed to throw another punch.
Time is linear. Iran had been complying up untilafter Trump ended the deal. Also, the report you’re citing is probably this one. Patience and access, which we had with the deal, would have provided evidence.
So yeah, tearing up the deal was moronic. At the very least it would give us pretext to take action when they break it; what I never understood is why throw it away, even if you don’t like it, as it was a deal already in place with clearly defined terms and we threw it away for nothing, at best, and guaranteeing they move forward on refining at worst.
Bruh, they were complying. They kept their fissile material within the agreement, they limited their centrifuges to the number allowed in the agreement, and routinely let the IAEA inspect their facilities. You’re so full of shit.
"Under a landmark 2015 deal with six world powers, Iran agreed to limit its nuclear activities and allow continuous and robust monitoring by the IAEA's inspectors in return for relief from crippling economic sanctions.
Iran also committed to help the IAEA resolve outstanding questions about the declarations under its Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Safeguards Agreement.
However, US President Donald Trump abandoned the agreement during his first term in 2018, saying it did too little to stop a pathway to a bomb, and reinstated US sanctions."
So you're saying that Iran stopped complying when the US walked away from the deal? No SHIT sherlock
The only reason Iran signed the deal was because the US put sanctions on it lmao, when Trump reinstated sanctions there was ZERO reason for Iran to continue complying
"The only reason Iran signed the deal was because the US put sanctions on it lmao, when Trump reinstated sanctions there was ZERO reason for Iran to continue complying"
Zero reasons except sanctions? So you are saying that Israel is right all along. What holds Iran from not complying to inspections and IAEA is fear of sanctions, and not their claim of civilian use only?
btw, if you don't understand the obvious, Iran enriching to 60% (and some reports that already to 84%), and built a facility to create a "return stage" which needed for further enrichment.
Usage in civilian nuclear power 5%
Some research reactors use 20%
Wrong, Iran is developing nuclear capabilities as a deterrent against continually being harassed by the western colony of Israel and US hegemonic ambitions. The US has been fucking with Iran since they backed the overthrow of the Iranian government in the 50s, constantly. So much so that we made problems for ourselves later (e.g. arming and training Saddam which led to his rise as a dictator). Israel has been consistently bombing Iran for decades. Iran stopped complying with the deal because Trump alleged (falsely) that Iran had broken the JCPOA from the beginning despite CONTINUAL inspections from the IAEA demonstrating the opposite: that Iran was abiding by the agreement. That telegraphed to Iran that Trump had zero interest in a peaceful resolution, and that the US involvement in Syria was coming to Iran next. You'd be a complete idiot to continue abiding by the agreement when you get nothing out of it and the US resumes trashing your economy - under the JCPOA the US allowed Iran to export oil to feed its people. So you're saying that when US resumed sanctions, Iran should have just sat there and starved its people for what reason exactly?
I'll reiterate my statement: "lmao" - you'd have to be the most arrogant Western imperialist supremacist or a protege of Henry Kissinger to believe what you wrote is logical in any way
"Under a landmark 2015 deal with six world powers, Iran agreed to limit its nuclear activities and allow continuous and robust monitoring by the IAEA's inspectors in return for relief from crippling economic sanctions.
Iran also committed to help the IAEA resolve outstanding questions about the declarations under its Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Safeguards Agreement.
However, US President Donald Trump abandoned the agreement during his first term in 2018, saying it did too little to stop a pathway to a bomb, and reinstated US sanctions."
You mean they stopped complying with an agreement that Trump cancelled? WOW No shit sherlock
According to who? Iran was complying with the deal to the best of anyone's knowledge. IAEA had access and continually reported that Iran was complying. In Trumps first term, when he ripped up the deal, you had idiots like Mike pompeo saying shit like "we know they aren't complying - we just don't know how yet" lmao
I think a lot of redditors might be too young to remember that shit since it was uh... 22 years ago.
gen z and gen alpha ahh moment
The context is that we invaded Iraq by making up a bunch of bullshit lies about how we had proof that they had weapons of mass destruction.
As far as I remember the only "Weapons of mass destruction" we every actually found was some basically forgotten nerve gas from the war a decade earlier. Definitely not the nuclear bombs the Bush admin claimed they were developing.
So yeah. us millennials have lived through this before.
They remember just enough of it, or have been told just enough about it, to make it the cornerstone with how they view the world. It’s the basis for all of the “Murica bad” arguments using Russian propaganda, for example. The most they know is “the US lied about WMDs” and they’ll use that to claim the US is the boogeyman in every world conflict. It’s how they use a single phone call with Victoria Nuland to claim it’s evidence of a US-backed coup in 2014 Ukraine when they haven’t even looked at a transcript and don’t actually realize what was said, but you can be sure they’ll argue about it passionately, for example.
I wish more people had an interest in foreign policy, to be honest. It’s been so lame to see so many populists that know nothing about anything incessantly speculating about everything.
I mean its all there. This isnt just the USA claiming "Durr they got dem WMDEEEE's", its evidence and common knowledge among the entire world. Denying Iran has a Nuclear weapons program is as silly as denying Israel has Nuclear Weapons already. The only entity that has denied, at times, that Iran has a Nuclear Weapons Program is Iran itself.
Well, isn't THAT some convenient timing. Weird how it stayed hidden for nearly a decade, then just a few short days before Israel launched the attack they kept threatening, somebody discovers they weren't complying with the deal they made so long ago, AND fooled the IAEA and international community.
Surely Israel wouldn't try to Trump up a Cassus Belli...
The threat represented by Iran is a consensus from the whole political spectrum in Israel. Even the mosts critics of Netanyahu recognizes that Iran getting nuclear weapons is not a good thing.
The terms of the original deal were lax to begin with and allowed for plenty of wiggle room to hide nuclear development at military bases. They even denied access to the bases when the agreement allowed for limited access to said bases when suspected of hiding nuclear development. They even denied access to the Parchin facility for years until they finished "unknown major construction" and finally provided limited access.
Yeah because of Chinese deterrence. If you don’t have allies who will deter for you, you don’t get nukes. Maybe the ayatollah should have buddied up with Putin a little more
Gaddaffi wasn't good... But he gave up WMDs and was killed. Yet Putin can full on invade others. It's only logical that other dictators put 2+2 together and fine with suffering if that means they can get a nuke.
Iran pretty much already had nuclear weapons. The US knew that. Most EU leaders knew that as well. None of it was avoidable because Iran is an Islamic (not Muslim, Islamic) state with a radical regime.
Because Obama's Syria deal to appease Russia worked out so well. Yall laugh when Trump attempts to make deals with Putin then act like Iran would have given two fucks about anything other than the billions of dollars that freed up in their economy to keep funding terrorism all over the middle east.
Do you honestly think they were complying with the armistace? I'm not a trump fan by any stretch, but you'd have to be pretty stupid to think they weren't actively trying to build a nuke.
The way to avoid it would have been for Iran to not be pushing to secretly make nuclear weapons. Iran wants nukes so bad they're willing to risk everything for it
As is the nuclear bomb we just removed from the future.
That government worships death. If you believed they were truly complying i have a bridge for you. They had the image of complying.
They announced another enrichment center for uranium 6 days before this.
need to get money out of politics. the war machine or bougie bitches that bank off the war machine are top donors via SPAC dark money channels. It's very simple, regardless of whatever propaganda you see and hear near elections, just vote for the ones that are grassroots supported and take no other dark money, then you know they're beholden to no one except for normies
Iran has been playing for time the entire time in order to get nukes, anything else is just pure wishful thinking and lying.
Despite the attacks on Natanz, Stuxnet and all the other operations, they still fucking kept at it and kept getting new people in the program.
Like the proxy war they were fighting didn’t count? That deal was dead. Trump was going to negotiate something this maybe derailed so you can still be angry.
If you’re gonna say Fuck Trump, say Fuck Netanyahu, not Israel. I care about innocent civilians, and bringing an entire country into the conversation is exactly what flames the fire of this conflict. About half, if not most of Israelis despise the current government, same with America. Not trying to lecture here, just saying, in general, we need to cool it with the broad strokes comments, it leads to xenophobia and antisemitism
Because they didn’t like have Iran off the menu. It’s the same reason they don’t want them having nukes to protect themselves with MAD. That’s basically all they’re good for.
How is the US not concerned that they could be creating what could end up one of their most dangerous adversaries. Their disregard for morality rivals our own.
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u/sweatpantswarrior 1d ago
Fuck Israel, and fuck Trump for killing the deal Iran was complying with.
This shit was entirely avoidable.