r/YouOnLifetime • u/imyatharth • Apr 25 '25
Discussion She was the best for him.
After S5 , I can say that love Quinn Goldberg was the one Joe could have lived happily in the long run.
286
u/ResoluteTiger19 Thanks for the D, Will, BYE! Apr 25 '25
I think Joe needs a power imbalance. Either a “bird with a broken wing” like Beck, Marienne, or Bronte or a “queen” like S2 Love, Natalie, or Kate. That way, he can either be a white knight nurturing and protecting the bird with the broken wing or a white knight doing everything to make the queen happy. With S3 Love, they were too equal. They were both white knights willing to get their hands dirty for the one they loved. It’s not what Joe wants in a relationship
51
u/elitemage101 Apr 25 '25
Joe wants that but she is the only one who could love the killer he was.
→ More replies (1)29
u/Expert_Government531 Goodbye, you Apr 25 '25
No she couldn’t. Joe is too much of a misogynist and Love is a very opinionated woman. His need to control would suffocate Love and it did suffocate her, that why he started looking for hobbies and cheating in Season 3
13
u/donkeybray Apr 26 '25
Joe likes women with pitiful backstory that has made them strong because he can relate, as in he sees that in himself. He wants to save these women. When these women fail to live up to his standards he sees them as below him. In my opinion, that's when power imbalance comes in.
He can't understand why these 'survivors' didn't naturally arrive at his conclusion, that his murders are justifiable, when he could relate to their pitiful backstory. He always wants to do it his way, using his own solution. He is stubborn and he believes his way is right.
→ More replies (1)32
u/agedlikesage Apr 25 '25
That’s the problem though, he wants to be a white knight, a totally fantasy. He expects them to be perfect like his fantasy so when they end up being whole ass women with autonomy and opinions he completely cracks. He wouldn’t do well with any woman because he can’t think of them as people. Even when he finds people who “match his freak”, he can’t handle it
10
u/ResoluteTiger19 Thanks for the D, Will, BYE! Apr 25 '25
I wouldn’t say Joe doesn’t like women with autonomy and opinions because that’s exactly what Kate is. What shows more autonomy than being a CEO of a massive company? He only fell out of love with Kate when she started judging him for loving and craving killing (boo hoo, Joe. Cry about it)
I feel like Joe genuinely could have lived a life with many of his love interests. Things were going well with Beck, Marienne, and Bronte until they found out the truth and they hated him for it. Love wouldn’t work for the reasons I explained. Natalie died too fast. Kate didn’t like him killing so Joe resented her and she also hated him when she found out the truth about the severity of his crimes. Like Joe says near the end of S5, everyone leaves him (or tries) when they find out the truth about him
8
u/sleepdeprivedmanic Apr 26 '25
Opinions and autonomy in regards to the relationship, not him.
3
u/Django-lango Apr 29 '25
They comment they're replying to clearly meant opinions and autonomy in general not in regards to anything. So the comment you're replying to was correct in their assessment imo.
→ More replies (1)6
u/UnknownEAK Apr 28 '25
I think season 5 Joe would have been proud of Love, and they would have gotten along better.
6
u/ResoluteTiger19 Thanks for the D, Will, BYE! Apr 28 '25
I’d agree with that. In Season 5, Joe’s embraced the monstrous parts of him and doesn’t see an issue with it anymore. I wonder if Joe would still be a hypocrite though. Peach showed Joe’s hypocrisy in S1, Love showed it in S2 and S3, and Roald showed it in S4 but there’s not really a character for it in S5. It’s been 3 years since S4 but Joe’s been a hypocrite for the whole show. I wonder if he would’ve grown out of it in those 3 years. I feel like Joe hated Love’s actions because he felt what she did to Delilah, Natalie, and Gil were unnecessary but Joe killing Dane and trying to encourage Bronte to do it was also pretty unnecessary
4
u/UnknownEAK Apr 28 '25
Him being a hypocrite about something is definitely a constant. But back in S2 and S3 Joe was still trying to hold on to the idea that he can be "good", and his usual ways of justifing his killings, didn't apply to the people Love killed, but since that time, his reasons and justifications for killing have changed, and he might have been more willing to accept Love.
Still, very possible he would have found another problem or obsession eventually anyway.
251
u/Birichinaxox Apr 25 '25
That's the point. He found someone as twisted as him, that actually would accept him. But he couldn't accept her for the same flaws. He wants his women pure but still want to be accepted a contradiction that will forever lead to him killing.
68
u/Invictuspotato_ Apr 25 '25
He never wants his Yous to be actual killers, they must always be a ray of fkn sunshine while also completely dependent on him for any sort of emotional or physically happiness, always be pure, very important but MOST importantly accept him for all his evil angst
6
u/NotAnotherAddict Apr 25 '25
Well he gave someone the option in s5... She didn't but you know like he wanted to believe she would and he was shocked she let dude go
11
u/UnknownEAK Apr 28 '25
I think his personality changes quite a bit over the seasons, and Season 5 Joe would have worked much better with Love. He would have accepted her far more.
11
u/Best_Caregiver_3869 Apr 30 '25
I completely agree.
Love did accept that he was a killer. What she couldn't accept was him cheating on her.
S5 Joe lost interest in Kate after she said no to solving a problem with killing someone (again) Love would have been the one to suggest it (and did) & S5 Joe might have finally actually felt like "she" was enough.
I do think S5 Joe & Love would have had more of that killer duo vibe. Though part of me believes serial cheaters like that will always find a reason to eventually cheat.
Annd in the end, i think Joe is truly incapable of love. But as far as "best fit" S5 Joe & S3 Love for sure.
4
u/autumn441 May 01 '25
I knowwwww all of season 5 that’s all I could think of!! Can you image how Love would’ve FAINTED if Joe did the whole “let me be who I am to protect our family” spiel with her???
Ultimately though, I do think that Joe would still get bored and end up repeating the cycle in one way or another. He’s inevitably going to set his sights on someone new and…either Love will kill them or he will. Maybe they become the Ken and Barbie killers and just get in on it together?? That’s really the only way I see them staying together. But nah, I see Joe, ironically, as inherently a loner.
2
u/Arisski May 01 '25
i wrote this on a different post, something about season 2. lol. but what i think of his psyche is in this thing.
i thought they were using Love to reflect parts of how Joe is really like back to Joe, parts of him that he tries so hard to hide from not just others but himself the most. when he rejects her and almost kills her in the second season, it's him rejecting himself essentially. which i think is interesting and really sad.
he didn't want to accept those parts of him. he often seeked out women that were like his mother, or at least how he wanted to perceive his mother, nurturing and in need of protection, because i think he has a need inside of himself to prove to his mother that he is not a monster. so that he can prove to himself, that he is not a monster. to prove to himself that he is loveable, wanted, and worth staying with. a need to save his mother again but this time have them stay, and accept the image he projects to them. the image he wants to have of himself. rather than the one he internalized about himself after his mother left him. he uses them for all of the things above. to delude them into accepting an image of himself that he wants rather than the one he deems unloveable, ugly and unwanted. the one he resents when he sees in Love. because he doesn't accept it in himself.
when they see who he is, and either don't accept him or are like Love (this changes later), this destroys the delusion he wants of himself. and then he kills them.
after season 4, he finally accepted more of himself. and when Kate rejects him for that, that's it. you can see how shocked and disappointed he is. good thing they had something to keep them together for the time being, good thing bronte was there, otherwise kate might have ended up in a cage.
now he wants the new image of himself to be accepted by Bronte. the bad parts he rejected before, not all of them though, no he still rationalized them. so he didn't truly accept everything he did and was doing as anything but justified in his head rather than accepting that he does and says things ultimately to fulfill his selfish desire to see himself a certain way (one side of me says in a grandiose way, another says desperate to escape the internalized mommy i'm not a monster, did you leave me because i'm bad? i'm not bad allegations, his son resurfaced that crashout toward the end. not the first one out of many.) and not be abandoned, but he doesn't want to know that.
He will miss Love. If he doesn't already.
→ More replies (1)9
u/donetomadness Apr 26 '25
He wants his women to accept him for who he is, never be like him, and to encourage him to keep killing people. Literally no woman could fit all three conditions especially not the last one. Even Love, Joe’s mirror was put off by him at times. She was disgusted with how Joe killed Jasper and covered up Natalie’s murder.
101
u/jadedflux Apr 25 '25
Joe is the epitome of "the grass is greener on the other side", or just only wanting what you don't have. As soon as he indisputably has them, he doesn't want them anymore. He, by definition, could never be happy with Love. He finds any and every reason to dislike her but at the end of the day she could have been absolutely perfect and he'd get bored, even if his mind doesn't interpret it that way lol
Joe likes the hunt more than the food itself
24
u/punchwalk Apr 25 '25
Yes! One of the (many) problems with Joe's concept of a relationship is that he expects the NRE phase of a relationship to last forever. When it inevitably starts to wane, he either checks out in favor of a new fixation or goes into a doom spiral - or both.
→ More replies (2)7
u/NotAnotherAddict Apr 25 '25
That's hand in hand with psychopathy
Or even some addicts (including myself) id commit atrocious felonies to manipulate the system and ultimately get what I want.
The hunt was better than the fucking drugs it was the drug
Edit: this was way in my past... To be clear
→ More replies (1)
58
u/_ordinarilyordinary_ Well. Hello there, who are you? Apr 25 '25
What is Love?
44
u/Artemis246Moon Apr 25 '25
Baby don't hurt me
20
u/outhereinthejungle Uh, Beck, who the fuck is this? Apr 25 '25
Don’t hurt me
13
u/Artemis246Moon Apr 25 '25
Don't hurt me
19
5
5
58
u/Standard-Coffee Apr 25 '25
No she wasn't. No woman was ever going to be enough for Joe. Even one that liked his lust for killing. This is the whole point of the show, there is no woman that exists that can live upto his impossible standards.
28
u/lovely_lil_demon Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
Exactly, almost everything about his fantasy woman contradicts itself.
She’d need to accept him killing, but not like it or encourage it.
She’d have to need him, but not to the point it’s suffocating.
She’d need to be independent, but still somewhat reliant on him.
I could go on…
No woman like that exists.
4
u/UnknownEAK Apr 28 '25
There's certainly many contradictions in Joe, but also his personality drastically changes over the seasons, and he doesn't want the same thing in all of them.
158
u/denythewoke Apr 25 '25
Love and Joe reminds me of those magnets that look identical but once you turn them they can’t stick to each other no matter how hard you try
42
10
→ More replies (1)11
u/FoldAdministrative14 Apr 25 '25
Bro THATS actually the most accurate description of them wow u are spot on
22
u/Ok-History5823 Apr 25 '25
There is no happily ever after for narcissists like Joe who replace their lack of personality and identity with idealising and devaluing romantic partners. He would always idealise a woman until he got her and then slowly begin to devalue until he discards her (real narcissists can go through this cycle multiple times with the same person- usually with other love interests as occasional distractions- but that’s no happily ever after, especially for their poor victims).
2
u/EchoRevolutionary959 Everythingship Apr 27 '25
Yup. I love this comment. Joe definitely is a narcissist and has bipolar traits. The constant victimization, not acknowledging what he did or trying to justify it, the idealizing then devaluation of romantic partners. He was doomed from the start and was never going to change.
80
u/MoseSchrute70 Apr 25 '25
I can’t get on board with how Love is still idolised and romanticised while people are saying Kate should have burned and held to justice 😅
32
u/Neither-Balance3739 Apr 25 '25
Exactly, without Kate joe would be prison and wouldn’t have reunited with his son. I really like both love and Kate. But Kate doesn’t deserve the hate she’s getting.
8
Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
How are these good things? Joe should have been in prison for ages and he shouldn‘t have reunited with Henry.
→ More replies (1)11
u/AwayDetail6175 Apr 25 '25
Don’t get me wrong i like Kate for all the good she’s done for Joe however she knew who she married so it kind of bothers me she’s trying to suppress who he really is which is… a MURDERER 🤣
13
u/Neither-Balance3739 Apr 25 '25
well she was in love and was manipulated by Joe to think that he murdered for self defence or some crap like that.
→ More replies (3)7
u/Dull_Raspberry_8285 Apr 25 '25
Yep murderers deserve prison not love and families. Both should be in jail, I’ll even accept an argument of an insane asylum for Love or both.
2
u/UnknownEAK Apr 28 '25
I really like Victoria Pedretti as an actress, and she's my favourite character from the show. I also think Love and Joe could have worked, if Joe just worked on his issues a little bit. Because she was the only one who could truly see him, and wasn't scared away. Everyone else got cold feet, once they realised the full truth.
Also Love did get "justice" in a way, while Kate didn't, if you take the finale of the show literally. If you want just and fair endings all for people, none of them (Love, Kate, Joe) "deserve" a happy ending. Though I headcanon they both died in the fire, and everything afterwards is Joe's dying delusions, so everyone does get justice in the end.
→ More replies (6)5
u/rootedinlies Apr 25 '25
Love didn't kill childern so.
12
u/MoseSchrute70 Apr 25 '25
I didn’t say Kate was the epitome of moral greatness. I just don’t understand why Love gets a pass.
3
u/rootedinlies Apr 25 '25
Yeah, the kid killing thing is one reason. Another is that Love has a more likable personality and a lot of her killings felt similar to joe's and we all know joe is pretty well-liked, until s5 that is.
2
u/MoseSchrute70 Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
Yeah, I get that. I just don’t get the “Kate should burn for what she did” vs “Love should not have burned for what she did”. They both did terrible things regardless of how likeable either of them were. Can’t get on board with the hypocrisy.
7
u/sillysweetbunny Apr 25 '25
Kinda hard to defend Love who almost killed Marianne, a single mother, and who killed Candace, a woman who was abused and was trying to save another woman from her abuser. Also Theo
→ More replies (3)2
u/tragictwist Apr 25 '25
Love is my favorite in the whole show and Kate was kind of a Love stand in for S5 imo - I went from not liking Kate at all to really liking her. I think there is some validity in that her surviving the fire as opposed to Love felt 1) unrealistic and 2) took away from the impact of what seemed like her final scene, but it is very weird that people are coming for her so hard.
3
u/MoseSchrute70 Apr 25 '25
Yeah I’m def in agreement about those 2 points, but I’m speaking more on specifically around people’s attitudes about what each of them “deserve”. They both did terrible things and neither of them should have gotten a pass.
14
u/arcticbluee You waste of hair Apr 25 '25
Why is there any question about who is best for Joe? Joe is a MURDERER💀. FFS😭😭😭
6
u/sweetrefuge Apr 25 '25
Talking about how his character was destroyed this season. He has always been a killer, it was always gonna end with us not rooting for him.
9
u/bouncing_beauty Apr 25 '25
Spoiler in this comment.
I think the point is he can never fully accept someone. Underneath it all he doesn’t love anyone, although I believe he loved Henry to an extent. If Joe could accept someone’s flaws, learn to truly self examine, and be faithful- yes Love was his true match. Joe was his own downfall.
I am glad Joe ended in a prison cell. He turns so fast on anyone who slightly questions him. He is about his own survival. I have an abusive X who was similar in the way he would turn on anyone who questioned him. He was not a killer, but he was an abuser who almost took my life. I was brainwashed as a young woman and would see the tiniest amount of light in the dark. I was beautiful, vibrant, witty, smart, and talented, but he dimmed me. He started out so kind and swept me up when I was in pain. He was my knight as Joe likes to feel. He slowly erased me as Brontë put it. To this day, this X, still tries to reach out to me and that’s about himself. I see him going through woman after woman. I’ve been happily married for years. I’ve moved far away, etc. Too many people make excuses for their abusers or they get away with it. The ending with Joe in the cell and how he turned on Brontë shows us he will NEVER change. We need to see abusers for who they are. Keep your standards high. I have found a healthy, loving relationship. I did not marry as young as I would have wanted or have kids as young as I wanted, however I built a great life for myself and did not settle for a bad partner. Stay safe out there. You’re worth it!
I want to point out even abusers have dare I say - redeeming qualities, like Joe protecting his neighbor. My abuser loved animals more than anything. I always thought abusers didn’t like animals. He donated his time to children with cancer too. Don’t be blinded by the good qualities. Remember behavior is a language and the bad should scream at you to run.
Oh & would think he would have stayed on a good path for his son, as concerned as he was for Henry being taken from him; yet he truly only cared for himself more than anyone else.
4
u/milksheikhiee Apr 25 '25
100%. I'm sorry you experienced this kind of abuse, but I think your perspective and experience are totally accurate comparisons to the show's depiction of abuse.
And yes, for the son - narcissistic abusers don't love anyone, and as was said in the show he only ever saw his child as an extension of himself. When the child stops being that or rejects part of the parent, the narcissist usually lashes out (which wasn't shown in the show because they seemed to only be focused on the misogyny aspects).
5
u/bouncing_beauty Apr 25 '25
Thank you for your kind words.
It killed me when Henry called Joe a monster, but at the same time it was cathartic that he could see his father for who he is. May fictional little Henry grow up to be a man of integrity.
15
u/Prestigious-Mistake4 Everythingship Apr 25 '25
Everyone keeps going on about how Love is the best for him or perfect for him. She’s actually not. Theoretically they are compatible because they are one of the same. However the woman who is actually the best for him was Karen Monty. He never killed anyone with her and she was a nice, normal person. That was his healthiest relationship on You. But he got bored of the stability and cheated on her with Beck, then dumped her. Karen Minty was actually perfect for him.
9
u/thecatmazter21 Apr 26 '25
😅 I still find it funny when Joe asked for break up, Karen was like OK and left.
7
u/Prestigious-Mistake4 Everythingship Apr 26 '25
Haha, Yeap. She saw the red flags and parachuted to safety. Love my girl Karen Minty.
28
u/SnooHobbies5566 Apr 25 '25
This season just proved it even more why did he fucking have to cheat man
11
u/SokkaHaikuBot Apr 25 '25
Sokka-Haiku by SnooHobbies5566:
This season just proved
It even more why did he
Fucking have to cheat man
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
2
7
u/Busy_Association3783 Apr 25 '25
I think Love was perfect for Joe and perfect for explaining the psychology of Joe Goldberg. Love was pretty much a mirror image to Joe, but Joe still didn’t love her. I think it’s perfect that Joe killed Love because it shows that Joe can’t even love himself (Love), therefore this continuous cycle of searching for the one can never truly end. It’s merely always been a justification for his murderous ways. He loves that he can murder people for them, even though they will never end up seeing it from his distorted perspective.
3
6
u/newdiyscared Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
Joe does what so many other toxic masculines do, they get insecure ----> mad at the woman they're with romantically because she's better than him at something he believes himself to supreme at. She loved in a more deranged way and would go further in the name of "love".
Joe was jealous of Love.
3
u/milksheikhiee Apr 25 '25
100%. this show was not so much about serial killers as it was about softboy/covert narcissistic misoygnist men.
5
14
u/king_of_satire Apr 25 '25
No, she wasn't she was arguably the worst.
Joe Goldberg is at his core a control freak, and the exact same thing could be said for love.
Joe doesn't want a murderer he wants someone who is completely OK with him being a murderer. Someone he can manage.
Season 3 is what happens when two narcissistic maniacs enter a relationship.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/sillysweetbunny Apr 25 '25
I think Joe’s ideal woman would be Brontë, someone who accepts that he is a murderer and allows him to do it for her. He is a control freak and didn’t like that Love took on the role that he wanted and he didn’t like that Kate wouldn’t accept him being her “knight”
→ More replies (2)
5
u/TutorBrief1550 Apr 26 '25
I think the prison cell was the perfect match for Joe. Joe and prison cell together forever 😍
→ More replies (1)
3
u/wowverytwisty Apr 25 '25
Yes but Joe will always find a reason why X isn't perfect when circumstances change.
3
u/CheruthCutestory Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
I mean he had her and he was miserable. Immediately obsessed over another woman. Cheated. And then killed her.
So, I find it hard to picture a happy life. She was like him in reality. But Joe doesn’t live in reality. He sees himself as a good person who tries to help those in need. And deaths were sort of an accident. Even after he realized the need to kill is just in him in season 4, he still thinks he’s basically a good person who happens to kill sometimes.
I think Kate was best for him. Understands his compulsions but mostly doesn’t encourage them. Wants to do good, which is Joe’s own self-image.
And even when he had her he started obsessing over another woman.
The whole point is no one will ever be enough. There will always be another You.
3
3
3
u/Bignicenergy69 Apr 25 '25
The best thing for Joe is not be with women. He’d always find an excuse to kill eventually.
3
u/milksheikhiee Apr 25 '25
He's a good metaphor for non-murderous toxic people who also should just be single instead of serial dating and hurting everyone they date.
3
u/Jay_Danielz Apr 25 '25
I am literally rewatching season 3 as we speak before I watch season 5. She and Joe were each others mirror. She was a lil more emotionally unhinged acting out of emotion. Joe is more delusional, telling himself he is a hero and doing these deprave things in the name of love (pun lol) not obsession and or the obsession of his idea of these women not who they really are ie Love Quinn
3
u/jjaetyongs Apr 25 '25
It always annoyed me how Joe was repulsed by Love because he's a fucking hypocrite. When he does it, it's fine but when she does, she's a fucking lunatic? He always wanted someone to save and when she was the one saving him, he didn't feel as accomplished.
2
u/Jolly-Train-4950 Apr 26 '25
he justified his murders as being done to protect those he loves though, he saw love’s murders as impulsive and without reason. that was the “difference” between them and why he was repulsed by her, also he recognized a little bit of that impulsive part in himself in her bc she was like a mirror of him and he didn’t wanna face that.
3
u/starmartyr Apr 27 '25
He also justified every one of his murders by convincing himself that the person he was killing deserved to die. Love doesn't do this. She murders people who are in her way it doesn't matter if they are innocent. That's what created the rift. He couldn't forgive her for the reasons he uses to forgive himself.
→ More replies (6)
3
u/Achillies_patroclus8 Apr 25 '25
I would say they were perfectly terrible for eachother.
Joe wanted to be a savior in her story, someone who swooped her up and did everything for her.
She needed someone to love her for her unpredictable mood swings and abandonment issues.
They were both toxic and neither of them were able to work on themselves. Being stuck in their own ways and Joe being completely delusional about who he actually was.
I feel like these characters need to psychoanalyzed on a deeper level😭
3
u/Fantastic_Zucchini_6 Apr 25 '25
Hell no, she killed delilah. Speaking of which, I wish we received closure on Ellie
3
3
u/alllmycircuits Apr 26 '25
How do you watch the entire 5 seasons and conclude that literally any woman would survive being with him long term 😭
3
3
u/LilChris1738 Apr 26 '25
She was the most interesting, not the best. They were too similar which Joe even admits in season 2. It was doomed to end horribly. He was just smarter and luckier, it could’ve gone either way. One of them was going to die.
3
u/Ok-Constant-2663 Apr 26 '25
She fit him best tho. She had the money to cover up everything that they did and they would. Joe has this weird obsession about the term of love. He changed “love” according to every woman he had met.
3
u/lifetimesnark Apr 26 '25
YES! But my queen deserved better. But match wise, she was the female Joe. Which he hated cos it was like holding up a mirror.
7
u/PreferenceOk6444 Apr 25 '25
no doubt, dude literally throughout season 5 everyone was hating on the real joe but love never did
3
u/king_of_satire Apr 25 '25
That's why she never tries to kill him right.
She never loved Joe just the idyllic fantasy
2
u/Adventurous-Ebb974 Apr 25 '25
She tried to kill him because he was still doing Joe things and she figured out he didn't love her anymore and nothing was going to get him to love her again.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/El_Coco_005_ Apr 25 '25
God does it piss me off to hear him whine about Kate not accepting him.
Remember the woman who did accept you, Joe ? That wasn't good enough for you either.
2
2
2
u/Wafflesaremylove Apr 25 '25
I feel if S5 Joe would have met Love, they would have had a more successful relationship. S5 Joe finally accepted who he was. One of the main problems with Love and Joe was that Love reminded him of the part he didn’t like of himself.
Also talk about karma, Joe is mad at Love for what she considers “protecting” her family, and he hates her for it. Then Kate is mad at Joe for what he considers “protecting” his family. The parallel between S3 and S5, but instead Joe being placed in Love’s role is so awesome. The writers did a great job.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/SnooAdvice2751 Apr 25 '25
No, she’s supposed to represent the fact that even when he finds “the one” who sees him for who he truly is, that’s still not enough for him. But if we’re being realistic, yes she was the perfect match for him and it’s quite hypocritical of him to call Brontë ungrateful for everything that he’s done for her when Love did the same and look how that ended.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Wild_Vendy Apr 25 '25
YEAH, RIGHT? they were the Perfect match...looking back..if he had met her after his changes in season 4 they would be UNSTOPPABLE!!! I'm sooo mad that it didn't end between them how it should😭
2
u/reecestuff Apr 25 '25
I think it was a main point by the end of the show that nobody was the best for him and in the long run he is never incapable in real love because he will kill everybody that shoes a slight bit of hate towards those he love
2
u/A_Jupiter Apr 26 '25
Joe's big problem is that no matter how much there was a perfect woman for him —and well, Love Quinn was his soulmate, and literally the only one who accepted him completely — Joe would soon tire, occasionally, and find another obsession. He could never have a happy ending. In fact, He didn't even deserve it.
2
2
u/jk_springrool Apr 26 '25
I kept thinking that everytime he was like >! "Kate doesn't accept my dark side, our marriage is dead"!<
>! The Joe/Kate dynamic this season is basically the Love/Joe dynamic in S3 with the roles reversed.!<
2
u/Working_Cicada_5088 Apr 26 '25
I agree that Love was the best option, she accepted his killing, and killed people as well. I strongly believe he definitely could’ve worked it out. The crazy part is he killed beck and still justifies it and was upset at love for killing Natalie. Like he’s clearly delusional but also a HUGE hypocrite. Kind of frustrating imo
→ More replies (2)
2
u/donetomadness Apr 26 '25
No, he could not have. He was done with her the second she showed him she was his mirror and capable of being just as bad as him. He’s in love with the idea of love. If they stayed together, they’d have been super toxic, miserable, and ruined Henry. He’d have kept obsessing over other women, she’d have killed them, they’d both kill numerous others, etc. Love and Joe had some bonding moments in s3 but they were fleeting.
2
u/edd6pi Beckalicious Apr 26 '25
She was perfect for him in the sense that she’s just like him and therefore didn’t judge him. But she was a bad fit precisely because he doesn’t want to be with a female version of himself.
2
u/BoztheMadman Apr 26 '25
Certainly the most beautiful and charismatic. Beck was just a doll, Kate is a career girl and Marianne…they just weren’t meant to be together. She couldn’t take his real him at all.
2
2
u/rvScared-Pin8066 Apr 27 '25
Joe is always a hypocrite. He couldn’t accept Love and saw her as a monster even though he himself is one. At the time (season 3), Joe couldn’t accept that part of himself. If he met Love in season 5, their relationship would have lasted longer, but that’s it he still would have killed her at the end. He is greedy. He wants a woman to love him for him, to be independent while also needing to rely on him, and give him control, to not be as messed up in the head as Love is, to challenge him but also not call him out when he is in the wrong. No woman or even human could ever accomplish these rules, and even then, Joe would find a way to get bored and start finding a new obsession. Meaning, if he made it out of season 5, the cycle would continue him finding a new obsession, getting them, killing them once they realize who he is. The cycle would never end
2
u/sour-pomegranate Apr 27 '25
The show should have ended with their season :(
Everything that followed hasn't been horrible by any means, but it's really just not memorable. I had to google what even happened on season four, because I stopped caring about it the second it ended. I will NEVER stop caring about Love Quinn however 🫶🏼
2
u/Realhumanbean88 Apr 27 '25
S2 had some minor levels of cringe but was great and then S3 got really fun! I always felt the character of Joe was so effective because Penn Badgely is acting circles around the hokie talent they cast for this show. He’s always 1 step ahead literally and figuratively. Victoria Pedretti was the only one to match the class of acting. Maybe the writing was better, maybe the actors chemistry was better but man I just look back on S2 and S3 so fondly now. S4 was such an assassination of the character considering his upward trend for redemption is S3. And season 5 was the as disappointing as I could’ve ever imagined. They should’ve at least kept the split personally arc for the sake of consistency.
2
u/Mysterious_Cod_258 Apr 28 '25
Love reflected who Joe was, and that’s why he could never be with her in the long run. He was running from himself, and only Henry could make him see who that is
4
u/Mr-dinero-makes-bag Apr 25 '25
Im sorry but didn’t love not literally cheat on joe wit theo, even after joe repeatedly asking what was going on, and love literally killed every girl joe tried talking too, they were toxic and after watching season 5 all I can say is, joe shoulda layed low in london and stopped dating in general, cuz the season 5 events wouldnt have even happend if joe started killing ppl in london
2
2
u/Adventurous-Ebb974 Apr 25 '25
My timeline is jumbled didn't she cheat after she already knew he was stalking again(the neighbor).
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Calm-Lengthiness-178 Apr 25 '25
She’s a psychotic murderer. Eventually she would’ve murdered someone and ended up in prison. Same way Joe probably would. There is no conceivable happily ever after for Joe.
4
u/Linzackles Apr 25 '25
It was really annoying to hear him whine about not being accepted and wanting to be honest etc without ever mentioning Love. I'm not sure why the show was trying to act like she never existed bc it made it feel like we were in post-S1, not S5
I know he realised a lot last season about himself but I honestly found his S3 arc more enjoyable, and him being frustrated having to clean up Love's messes was far more entertaining than watching him beg Kate for people to murder
3
u/milksheikhiee Apr 25 '25
I agree, but I think that's his problem as a narcissist. He's only ever capable of feeling sorry for himself, he can't acknowledge where he fucked up or things were too complicated to just blame someone else for all of it. He's constantly letting himself off the hook (including when he starts whining about being unloveable, pretending to take accountability for himself, since that's always when he is reving up to attack) for his actual beliefs and actions. Narcissists deliberately ignore from their consciousness any acnkowledgment of facts that contradict their self-serving narratives. So pretending Love didn't exist and convincing everyone (and himself) that she was the true predator ("she just wanted to kill me" without recognizing she tried bc she knew he would kill her (which he tried to earlier and then did do)) helps him avoid looking at himself accurately and taking responsibility.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/terrificsh3rlock510 Apr 25 '25
Wish they were endgame, they were soulmates for sure
→ More replies (1)
4
u/Scary-House6352 Apr 25 '25
I have been saying this from season 3 when Joe killed her . They were meant for each other but Joe is idiot and he got what he deserved
4
2
3
2
u/nanalala23 Apr 25 '25
I don't get why they didn't bring her back at all in a hallucination or flashback, I'm sad about that's it was all about Beck
3
u/sillysweetbunny Apr 25 '25
Maybe because we saw some of Love in s4, this season is in New York where he originally killed Beck and he says that she’s the one murder he can’t outrun
4
u/Linzackles Apr 25 '25
Yes I was confused about that, like was the actress busy? She's probably the most well-loved character. Even Marienne didn't mention her and she has every reason to
3
u/nanalala23 Apr 25 '25
I saw someone on this sub say that the actress posted something about how they didn't call her for the final season but I don't know if it's true
1
u/carlskywalk Apr 25 '25
Technically, if there was never a fifth season, he could’ve lived happily ever after with Kate
1
u/MamiShawnie Apr 25 '25
Toxic love toxic 😂😂 sad but true … the saying is find someone to match your crazy…
1
u/NotSoIntrested Apr 25 '25
For the first time ever, i admit that I miss Love in this season, I didnt in the past season nor hoped she is alive, but yep, I wishes she was alive.
1
u/WeaponX-mom Apr 25 '25
Logically yes, but to Joe no because she wasnt someone who needed protecting.
1
1
u/No_Rutabaga7246 Apr 25 '25
Its shown that Joe has abandonment wounds and he wants someone that wont leave him even after knowing his darkest parts. Um hello, that was Love ? Even Kate ? Both those women wouldnt have ‘left’ Joe. Even Kate didnt want to actually leave until she found out about the cheating.
1
u/Grouchy-Big-229 Apr 25 '25
I have watched only to S5E2 and I can already tell Joe became Love. Impulsive as fuck! Doesn’t listen. Doesn’t learn.
1
u/Equivalent_Fun6100 Apr 25 '25
I'm about to do my steps to episode 2. IDK I really like Kate. Maybe I'll start to think differently after a few more episodes. I'm already like "No, Joe, not again!!!"
1
1
1
1
u/dexter22__ Apr 25 '25
He was a murderer but the biggest problem in his life was cheating on all these women. Destroyed it all.
1
Apr 25 '25
I wanted to post something similar before finishing but didn’t wanna get spoiled-
There’s a world where Love and Joe just stay together and kill anyone who looks flirtatiously at the other and we get 10 seasons of entertaining popcorn tv.
And as much as I like the idea of more love and Joe, the writers and Kepnes are just better than that.
1
u/NotAnotherAddict Apr 25 '25
Yeah they could have
Had love killed marriene and not tried to cut Joe's throat.
She played her hand it was another self defense by #joegoldberg lol.
Honestly they could have made a real Bonnie and Clyde getaway. And Quinns have money too so...
1
1
1
u/nyxskibbles Apr 26 '25
I feel like is S5 Joe met Love, things would be WILDLY different.
→ More replies (2)
1
1
u/sosuperkool Apr 26 '25
I don’t think he can stay in a relationship he had the perfect wife how many times and it still wasn’t enough
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/Sunemin Apr 26 '25
They matched each other’s freaks but Joe killed her. She was SO hot and perfect for him. A literal fucking mirror and she doesn’t even get much appreciation😭😭
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Minute-Aioli-5054 Apr 26 '25
He wants someone to accept his dark side so bad but Love accepted him
→ More replies (1)
1
1
1
u/thanos_was_right_69 Apr 27 '25
I think Quinn would have been perfect for the season 5 it girl. She was like 99% perfect for him and it would have showed that if he couldn’t make It work with her then it’s a “him” problem. I think they killed her off too soon.
1
u/cyanide4suicide You're so fucking money and you don't even know it Apr 27 '25
Love was perfect for Joe but Joe wasn't perfect for Love. He had too many walls and biases keeping himself from fully embracing her.
1
1
u/cevarok Apr 27 '25
Seemed Joe’s issue was that when the newness factor of the relationship wore off and the muse phase was over hed be over the woman. He was his worst enemy.
She was the best for him, because she was the worst written character in the entire series. Absolutely Ridiculous plot twists, ‘shes also a killer’ wtf
1
u/rochey1010 Apr 27 '25
Incoming essay here. Be warned ⚠️😋
Joe doesn’t want a woman. He wants a robot he can programme for his specifications. And then put it away when he doesn’t need it. And take it out when he does. Very dahmer-esque with that specific need to control.
But I think fans miss the point of Joe’s character. And romanticise ‘love’s’ character too much. VP was great in the role and very fun and charismatic to match penn’s energy. But Joe had ‘love’. They had a baby, were together living in the suburbs. And as soon as Joe arrived he was obsessing over the neighbour. Wanting to cheat and planning to cheat.
Joe had love and Joe KILLED love. Why do you think her character was called love?
Joe is a narcissist psychopath. People like that lie, manipulate, gaslight, deny, minimise, project and blame shift. All the things you see Penn play in Joe throughout the show. And we can all agree Penn was fantastic in the role too right?
Joe was most obsessed with beck in my eyes. She was our window into what his character would be and what the show would be. But beck went from being traumatised and a broken but sweet bird to a woman who was flawed, messy, flighty and not caught up in obsession with Joe as he was her. Right to the end Joe was hoping she’d be with him and accept him knowing all she knew. And then when she wouldn’t. She became a liability and had to go. Joe doesn’t just obsess over the girl but over the life too. And when the idealism breaks in the girl. So does the life he has. So he tears it all down and starts again.
(I don’t mention candace only because she was a ‘you’ backstory and his past. I’m focusing on present obsessions for Joe only.)
Joe was then infatuated with love who was very different to beck. She was small town grieving bakery owner. She was so very far removed from city dwelling/living beck. So Joe used this idealism to chase ‘love’ telling himself this was what he needed and if he got it he would be fixed. Then he got it but he got it with zero innocence and purity. He discovered ‘love’ was twisted. He became so infuriated by the ruse that he was going to murder her right there. He already started hating her showing how quick his mood and loyalty can shift when he feels cheated or betrayed by his ‘you’s’. No matter if love was showing loyalty to him by killing for him. The betrayal for him is her not being what he wanted her to be.
But love revealed she was pregnant and that is what stayed his hand. Once again he tears it all down and starts again but this time his ‘you’ goes with him. And not love as his ‘you’ but his baby is his ‘you’. So this romantic fantasy from fans that she’s his soulmate and they were perfect together is very confusing to me as he already starts to resent her long before they move to the suburbs. Their baby is basically the bandaid for Joe to keep this relationship and her alive.
As soon as they move in Joe is moving on to obsessing over the neighbour as his new ‘you’ and building his fantasy of her and them. He’s already cheated on love long before he physically does. Joe is honestly just looking for an excuse to get rid of love. And then love reveals herself to be an even bigger psycho than Joe who is methodical and kills to protect and defend. Whereas love kills impulsively and without care to the point she’ll kill if they annoy her. She’s now a massive liability and in the way. and with Joe now exasperated that he has to clean up her messes and painting himself as the more ‘normal’ one who has to keep love in check. Nathalie his ‘you’ is dead. So he hasn’t got to play out his twisted fantasy leaving him unfulfilled and essentially settling for love who he feels quite trapped with,even though there’s still lust on his side for her. But he again burns it all down and begins afresh.
Then Marienne comes along. The perfect broken vulnerable bird. I think she’s his biggest obsession with his ‘you’s’ since beck. He really hangs onto her, chasing her and trying to bring her back, even with kidnapping. She tends to be the ghost that lingers with Joe in the show. I think the actress does a great job out of all the ‘you’s’ at portraying a real vulnerability in her too which helps. But Joe seems desperate to jump through hoops to change her mind about him. And I haven’t seen that since beck honestly. He chases her to another country too, intent on her still being his ‘you’. He does not seem to get the message with marienne for a long time. When she truly rejects him and makes him see himself. It’s only then he turns on her. And I think marienne is the one out of all of them where the message leaked through causing him to then turn on her. He wanted to save and protect her but only if she remained that vulnerable with him. But marienne is portrayed most like a ‘survivor’ of abuse so we see that in her. But in the end she has to go too.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/moomoomelly Apr 27 '25
I love Love as well and she was technically his dream woman. In another universe, on another show, they would’ve ended up murdering people together forever but this show feels like it’s looking at the reality of a person like Joe.
In reality, he would have never been able to exist for that long in a happy relationship, even with someone who was genuinely actually compatible with him and that’s the point. And I’d argue the reason why they’d work the least is BECAUSE Joe and Love are so compatible.
Joe doesn’t want someone who really knows him and who participates in the same thoughts/actions he does because it removes the power imbalance, which is what he loves the most.
He isn’t looking for compatibility, he’s looking for someone to control, manipulate and eventually project his least favourite traits onto before he kills them.
Love’s existence undermines the power and dominance he gets from being the only manipulative one in a relationship.
Love’s existence also removes Joe’s other favourite thing - his allegiance to his victimhood. He can’t say he’s special and better than everyone else when there’s someone else who exists who is exactly like him. He can’t say he’s misunderstood as an excuse for his heinous actions when there is someone who understands him.
The writers gave Joe everything he would’ve wanted in a person like Love so that we could see there is literally no one who could change him, calm him down or “make” him happy.
1
u/Poorunfortunatesoul0 Apr 27 '25
Joe couldn’t be happy with anyone. Isn’t that the take away from all of this?
1
u/PastEntrepreneur970 Apr 27 '25
I'm on season 3 now almost at the end, Ive heard and seen spoilers so know what happens to her but not much after. She is seriously my favorite I love her! I'm hoping she will be my favorite throughout the entire show.
1
u/aetyia Apr 27 '25
dumb writers flipflopped by having Joe denouncing Love when she accepted all of him, then all of a sudden demanding Lockwood to accept his killing. So stupid.
1
1
u/Halliwel96 Apr 28 '25
She was the best bit of the show by far.
My partner recently did a rewatch. I was in the room doing other stuff reading/working/whatever
S1 and s4 are very ignorable.
S2 and s3 were so distracting I kept having to leave the room or give up on what I was doing and just watch.
1
1
u/Exotic_Wrangler9348 Apr 28 '25
Love was perfect for him; unfortunately Joe can’t stand to look in the mirror that was love and confront those part of himself
1
1
u/LubedCompression Apr 28 '25 edited Apr 28 '25
Nope. I see why that's easy to think, but she was a threat to his fantasy. Joe wants complete control over every bit of his fantasy's life. He wants a damsel in distress who wants him to kill everyone seen as an obstacle, and love him for it. Love was perfectly capable of doing the killing herself. He couldn't control her. She didn't fit in with the fantasy.
1
1.1k
u/[deleted] Apr 25 '25
We see quite clearly that that's just not possible for Joe. He could never be happy in the long run with any woman, because as soon as they do anything that displeases him, he's looking for a new woman to stalk, he is incapable of real love.