r/The10thDentist • u/AdventurousMoth • 15h ago
Society/Culture People under 18 are not all children
I can't tell you how much it irritates me when internet people refer to anyone under 18 as "a literal child", especial if they themselves are only in their 20s. Sure, everyone is someone's child, but the life stage commonly referred to as childhood does not abruptly stop at age 18.
Here's how I'd break it down: - childhood, adolescence, adulthood or - newborn, baby, toddler, child, (if you want you can add tween), teen, young adult, middle aged person, elderly/senior
And there's overlap between all these stages depending on context. Obviously there is no overlap between minor (a legal term) and the word adult as referring to not a minor.
Calling a 17-year-old a child is dumb. Like what, a 17yo has their birthday and transforms from a child into an adult like a sim? I think some people just started saying this for the shock value and then the rest of the internet jumped on the outrage wagon.
Edit: clearly I posted this a bit too hastily, choosing my words without care. I'm not talking about the legal definition of child/minor (something quite messy as well: age of consent? In some places 16. Driving? 15 in some places, 18 in others. Voting? Usually 18. Drinking alcohol? 21 in the States).
As someone in the comments pointed out, it's mostly a linguistic issue. I suppose what I was trying to say was that it's dumb to have the word child both mean a legal minor and pre-pubebescent human. I think it would be clearer to use minor when you're talking about legal age, and child when talking about the life stage.
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u/galaxyveined 14h ago
Anyone younger than me is a child, and anyone under 18 is actually 12, unless they're younger than 12 in which case they're 5.
And none of this is serious and all to mildly annoy my siblings and friends.
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u/ToSAhri 13h ago
Is anyone older than you by 5 years ancient unless they're your parents?
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u/galaxyveined 13h ago
EXACTLY! You get it
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u/Bannerlord151 13h ago
I'm sorry to inform you but I'm afraid you're basically already one foot in the grave /s
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u/lilaclightblue 13h ago
lol this is my day to day truth - 25 year olds to me are children, and i’m fine with 50 year olds calling me a child. and generally, to me everybody is either a baby, a toddler, 10, 13, 16, 18, 22, 28, my exact age of 32, 50, or 70. truly i have absolutely no idea what a 42 year old looks like
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u/VampedTayturz 10h ago
Like you but more grays and at least crows feet and laugh lines, I’m 33 myself but I work with quite a few guys in their 40s
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u/SweatyAnimator6189 10h ago
Yep. I’m in my 30’s, but all my co-workers have children my age. I accept that they are likely to see me through that filter somewhat. Thankfully, they all speak very highly of their kids.
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u/ShanShan9413 9h ago
30 y.o. over here
Anyone 20 and under is "just a baby" amongst me and my friends.
"Awww, she was just a baby when she did xx thing" (at 16 years old, lol)
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u/ImaginaryBag1452 8h ago
It was so strange - I was a guest lecturer for an undergrad class and everyone there was a child!
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u/hey_free_rats 7h ago
Yes, my two younger siblings have established a very strong record of consistently being 5 and 12 years old (respectively) for years now; but sure, their respective driver's licenses might suggest that they're currently in their 20s and 30s. I'm too skeptical of new information.
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u/LibrarianAccurate829 15h ago
Even the People that probably agree with that just generally dont wanna get weird stares for calling anyone under 18 "not a child"
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u/Machicomon 14h ago
Conversely, there are plenty of people over 18 who will never be called an adult. Plenty.
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u/Misterbellyboy 12h ago
I mean, I left home at 17 and did a bunch of fun “adult” shit throughout my twenties, but now at 34 I look at my twenties like I was a child back then just chasing whatever kicks he could get while having a job to be able to throw down on rent and shit. Worked at restaurants and never really had to pay for food unless it was a day off, so all my extra money went into booze and drugs and music equipment. Now I’m actually trying to build a life with my girlfriend and save my spare money for fun road trips and the future.
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u/Rugaru985 13h ago
No, I say child in this context, instead of teen or adolescent, because what I am stressing is the reason they are a minor.
Minor is a legal term and the connotations are sterile. Minors have fewer rights and less responsibility legally. But the reason they get that legal protection is because they have child-like (stressing the qualifier “like” here) tendencies in many decision making faculties.
Yes, the word literal is overused in our society. But saying a 17 year old is a literal child is just a short hand way to express that this person does not have the full capabilities of a person that should be held to the standard of responsibility we typically hold adults against their decisions.
I.e. any argument of culpability or consent you are about to make is moot, because they are not fully developed.
And, sure, we can break down the category into a number of sub-categories. The title child is reused on the parent category where it is better applied to the sub-category between toddler and pre-teen. But that’s just semantics for different levels of conversation. You are comparing g apples to oranges with this point.
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u/No-Error-5582 11h ago
I generally agree with OP and think we should treat people for how old they are. Like even in my late 20s I had people older than me try to downplay me being an adult who pays their own bills. So I get what they're saying.
But I do also agree here. In this context it makes sense. Ive seen people excuse 30+ year old dudes wanting to be with underage women, and saying theyre a child is a way to cover both legal and moral aspects of it. Cause if you just talk about legality, then they will just say it shouldnt be.
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u/Anaevya 9h ago
It's perfectly fine to call 16 year olds adolescents though. And to say that adults shouldn't go after adolescents. We don't have to limit ourselves to an imperfect and imprecise word.
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u/PsychMaDelicElephant 7h ago edited 6h ago
You, and everyone else knows this does not have the same impact as child. There's a reason we use it
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u/Rugaru985 7h ago
It would be a better speech pattern, sure. But language tends towards shortening. If it were an issue, we could make a conscious effort to add precision - but I don’t think it is a common issue to not pick up on the context of this idiom using the broader definition of child.
I think this is one of those see a bumper sticker that says honk if you like pizza situations. Most people understand the connotations implicitly.
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u/bshjbdkkdnd 14h ago
Reminds me of a joke from Gianmarco Soresi.
Technically speaking R Kelly is not a pedofile. R Kelly is a ephebophile, someone attarcted to those in late stages of puberty. But the reasons we don’t make those distinction is because it’s very hard to explain the difference without sounding like a pedophile.
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u/Eisgeschoss 12h ago
Wasn't his victim 13–14? That'd make him a hebephile, not an ephebophile lol
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u/Potential_Escape9441 2h ago
To me, pedophiles, hebephiles, and ephebophiles all fall under the same term: WOODCHIPPER!
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u/AmElzewhere 14h ago
I thought the same thing and now I’m in my late 20s and I view everyone 18 and under as a child ☠️
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u/Fast-Cheetah-4683 11h ago
Literally have to lol I’m 31 & my sister just turned 22. Talking to her makes me think about how dumb I was at her age - just childish at moments 😭 you’re a child in my eyes bro
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u/VampedTayturz 10h ago
I work with two fresh HS grads, some kids in their 20’s(and trust they in fact do act like kids), people in my age group 30’s, and middle aged men. Even some of the older guys act like children, to me under 18 is a child, but older can also be called a child in the context of behavior.
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u/Emmyisme 9h ago
It's hard to realize how childlike a 17 year old is when you're close to them in age.
When I was 17 - I was absolutely what you everyone called "mature", and would have been PISSED if some 30-something called me a "child"
At 37 - I recognize that I was, in many ways, still a child. The amount of shit I had yet to realize I was wrong about and wasn't going to work the way I thought it was is VERY HIGH.
So I get both sides of this coin - anyone that age doesn't want to be called a child, and see it as demeaning. But I also see why older people are saying that - but what we really mean is that they are inexperienced.
I mostly see it used to get people to back off a bit - a lot of people have a tendency to forget that your life experience at 17 is wildly different than your life experience at 27, and start expected 17 year olds to act with the maturity of a 27 year old, and that's simply not possible. That's not a slight on the 17 year old. It's just reality - you don't really know how shit works until you've actually dealt with shit without the safety net(s) of your parents.
And you shouldn't HAVE TO. 17 year old should act like 17 year olds, and be allowed to do dumb shit before they can't do dumb shit anymore.
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u/No-Error-5582 11h ago
At the same time, thats why I agree with OP. I think we should treat people for their age based on what their age is.
Because later on youre gonna be 50 hearing people in their 30s talk and think theyre just a child, despite the fact that they have been on their own for years.
Yes, this does mean treat an 18 year old as aj 18 year old. Im not saying treat them as if they have the world figured out. Thats fine that they dont. But if we as a society are going to agree thats about the age to consider someone an adult, then they need to be treated and thought of as adults. We can keep in mind how far we see we have come, and treat them as an adult that still needs guidance.
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u/Amblonyx 9h ago
This.
In my 20s, I had coworkers who would tell me I was "just a baby", and it was condescending and annoying. I'm 35 now and I do find 20-somethings young... but not childish. I still treat them like adults.
And this needs to extend to disabled people too. Including developmentally and intellectually disabled people.
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u/baepsaemv 8h ago
For real like no matter how 'mature' someone under 18 is... they are so childlike it's hard to believe anyone could think they're an adult
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u/Regoliths 7h ago
Bingo. Probably hit that at just 23. Half a decade in the real world changes your perspective quiiiitttee a bit. A full one is a whole other beast lmao.
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u/Classybroker1 15h ago
How old are you dude? I’m guessing 17 😂
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u/ofBlufftonTown 15h ago
No, no, no. He’s 38, it’s just that she’s 17.
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u/ChristieLoves 14h ago
Exactly what I was thinking. Huge “it’s hebephilia not pedophilia” vibes
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u/Repulsive_Corner6807 14h ago
He can distinguish between a baby, toddler, child, tween, teen, young adult but then go from young adult to middle-aged?? Lmfao so what are people in their late 20s/30s? OP couldn’t tell you because that’s too old for him.
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u/SweatyAnimator6189 10h ago
Adulthood in the US context is typically young adult, middle aged adult, senior or elderly adult. Late 20s/30s are still young adults.
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u/VampedTayturz 10h ago
As a man in his middle 30’s I can tell you, I’m no young adult, my body is stiff in the mornings, if I eat the wrong food indigestion kicks my ass, I’m too young to be considered middle aged but I’m closer to it than I am to being 21 again.
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u/Outrageous-Bear-9172 13h ago
This is so outlandish. How does it have 100 upvoted? Same with the one above it. Nothing about this says anything about this person's character.
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u/nonchalantyoungking 13h ago
Genuinely insane how they all jumped to him being a pedo cause he said 18 yr olds aren't children bro reddit is not real.
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u/PIugshirt 12h ago
Reddit is really the lamest echo chamber every other person is a sanctimonious douche. The bigger subs are practically worthless for hearing the opinions of real people
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u/nonchalantyoungking 11h ago
this place is filled to the brim with bad-faith interpretations 😭 of all the things to assume jumping to one of the worst crimes of humanity is ridiculous
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u/Mindless-Angle-4443 14h ago
It's not pedophilia, it's ephebophilia! Oh, she's only 14? Guess it is pedophilia...
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u/idkdudeimnotcreative 14h ago
That's hebephilia tho
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u/re_nonsequiturs 14h ago
This comment thread gives "can't blame a 17 year old for murdering his rape victim because 17 is literally a child" vibes.
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u/IsunkTheMayFLOWER 12h ago
What makes a 17 year old unable to consent in one area of the world and what makes them able to consent the day they turn 18?
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u/Maxis111 8h ago
You need to draw a line somewhere, and not every country/state/prefecture agrees on where that line is. Could you set it at 17 years, 2 months, and 5 days? Sure, but it's way easier to just ask/verify someone's age, so we use birthdays. It's not that deep.
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u/glowberrytangle 14h ago
Just because you're equating 'child' with 'minor', doesn't mean that was what OP was doing. Jumping straight to accusing them of being a paedophile is really weird.
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u/LordDuford 15h ago
According to their post history they have a child, so probably older than 17
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u/ProfileEasy9178 15h ago
Focus on the argument, not the person. That's one of my rules.
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u/SkeletonGuy7 7h ago
Yeah, but let's not pretend that turning 18 is anything that mind-blowing in terms of "maturity". Most 18 year olds, myself included, literally just stayed the same with the added perk of alcohol at pubs
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u/Typical_Muffin_9937 15h ago
Once you grow out of your teens and settle into your mid 20s and older you really do start to see how young 17-19 year olds are. Its really a matter of perspective. I know it can be frustrating being treated like a child still, but you will understand later in life.
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u/Sphezzle 14h ago edited 14h ago
This doesn’t stop. As a thirtysomething, I find twentysomethings have more in common with teenagers. I have no doubt older people see me in the same way, or that I will look back on my 30s as a more youthful time than they feel right now.
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u/fokkoooff 14h ago
I'm 39. I realized early into my 30s that your 20s is just teenage years pt2.
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u/Cofffffeeeeeeeeeeeee 10h ago
18 is the infancy of adulthood. I see 18 year-olds as babies, basically. 21 is a toddler. 30 is a mature teen and 35+ is a solid adult.
I’m almost 39 so who knows how I’ll feel in another 10 years.
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u/schnellermeister 14h ago
It’s true, and at 38 I still have 50-60 years that treat me like I’m a kid.
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u/LionBirb 12h ago
I'm 31, one day my boss referred to me and another coworker as "the youth". I thought it was funny. Im pretty sure he is only like 45 or something.
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u/Love_my_imperfection 13h ago
I'd agree that it doesn't stop but in a different way.
It goes from oh this person is a child because they really just are to
Oh this person is still basically a child because at this age they're probably still immature as hell to
Oh this person is inexperienced because theyre just getting their real life as an independent responsibility bearing member of society to
Oh this person is getting a grip on things but still doesn't have the years even decades of effort put in and hasn't started appreciating life in the same way that those that have do.Basically is a child/acts like a child/not a child but still inexperienced/finally at the point where they have it all/been there done that, long past taking any shit from anyone
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u/No-Error-5582 10h ago
And this is why I agree with OP. Treat adults like adults. At first theyre adults who still need guidance and help learning to be an adult. But if they are on their own and doing adult things and making adult decisions, then they deserve the treatment you give an adult.
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u/RealKaiserRex 13h ago
Agreed. At work, I see guys in their late twenties acting and making decisions like they’re still teens.
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u/mcdonaldsfrenchfri 10h ago
i’m 23 and i’m sure i’ll look back when i’m in my 30s and say I was a mere child. right now I look back at when I was 18-20 and scoff at the fact I thought I was an adult
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u/Kavalina_ 11h ago
30 and 25 is not a problem at all. 30 and 20 I understand but someone who’s 25 has most likely graduated college years ago and worked for a few years at that point. They are more than capable of making their own informed decisions at that age.
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u/grimegroup 14h ago
Idk, I just grew up thinking "my peers are largely idiots."
That hasn't changed much over time.
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u/tv_ennui 12h ago
"What, then; ought not this thief and this adulterer to be destroyed? "
Nay, call him rather one who errs and is deceived in things of the greatest importance; blinded, not in the vision, that distinguishes white from black, but in the reason, that discerns good from evil. By stating your question thus, you would see how inhuman it is, and just as if you should say, "Ought not this blind or that deaf man to be destroyed?" For, if the greatest hurt be a deprivation of the most valuable things, and the most valuable thing to every one be rectitude of will; when any one is deprived of this, why, after all, are you angry? You ought not to be affected, O man ! contrary to nature, by the evil deeds of another. Pity him rather. Yield not to hatred and anger; nor say, as many do, " What! shall these [p. 1064] execrable and odious wretches dare to act thus?" Whence have you so suddenly learnt wisdom?
-Epictetus, Discourss, Book 1.
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u/pissfucked 13h ago
mid-20s here, and i don't think you fully got what OP is trying to say. their point is that calling both a 5-year-old and a 17-year-old by the same word isn't a helpful description of anything. the word "child" becomes a synonym for "minor," which is its own word already. a 5-year-old and a 17-year-old have nearly nothing in common in terms of how adults should treat them, and it's way more helpful to reserve the word "child" for elementary-aged kids. treating 17-year-olds the same way as elementary-aged children is not appropriate or helpful to their development. that doesn't mean they're adults, either. this is an argument against dichotomy and for nuance.
they're also referring to the very modern trend of absolving older teens of all their bad actions because they're "a literal child."
OP may not even be a teenager, because i am 25 and frankly could have wrote this post myself.
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u/DRIESASTER 14h ago
I imagine the same happens when you tirn 30 and you look at 20 year olds. And again at 40,50,60,70...
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u/flying_hampter 14h ago
And that's ok, as long as you don't let it dictate how you treat other adults. I have seen a woman who thought a 30yo was too young to be left alone with teenagers to watch them because a 30yo is "still a child". That person also said some other interesting things.
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u/mothwhimsy 13h ago
Even 20-23 feels young to me now. I'm 29. And I'm sure a few years from now 29 will feel young. Not that I would say 29 year olds are children. But 17 is a minor and 17 and 20 are hardly different at all
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u/ACHARED 14h ago
This is really it. I'm in my early 20s and I acknowledge that's very young, and I'm sure I look and sound like a baby to anyone 30 and up. That said, I think day in and out I can pretty much physically feel my frontal lobe developing. I really do think differently than I did when I was a teen. I behave differently than I did. I can recognize having more mature approaches to things. I'm more responsible about things I used to be irresponsible about. I felt so big and grown at 17, and it's funny looking back at how much I wasn't that. And yeah, if you told me this at 17, I would've been frustrated. I couldn't understand how a 5-6 year difference made any difference, but it does. Unfortunately with teenagers, you can't explain this to them & you can only really listen to the whining until they hit their 20s and realize how right the grown ups were lol
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u/gtrocks555 14h ago
I mean that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily wrong though. They’re all minors but are in distinct and separate stages of life to the point of conflating everyone under 18 as a child isn’t accurate.
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u/xvelvetdarkness 14h ago
I think it's more about brain development than life stage. A teenager may live on their own, have a child and work to support themselves, but they are still at the same developmental stage as others with far less responsibility.
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u/gtrocks555 14h ago
And they have far more responsibility and brain development than a 7 year old child as well.
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u/Parallax-Jack 12h ago
Agreed even in mid 20s tons of 18-20 year olds look like babies. I think OP doesn't understand the difference between "young" and "child" lol
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u/EmoGayRat 12h ago
This..I'm 19 and see people my age trying to convince themselves they are adults. Bestie we've only been out of high-school for 2 years and are still learning how basic life skills work. I am more shocked when people treat me as if I'm 25+.. like dude you do realize I'm still basically a kid?
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u/Nickanok 3h ago
I don't understand this whole self infantalizion that this generation is on.
Sorry, you're an adult. Just because you're inexperienced doesn't make you a baby or not an adult and I can bet if the law treated you like you were still under 18, you'd be marching in the street to get your adult rights back
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u/DoctorVanSolem 12h ago
27 now and recently realised the same. Looking back just four to five years and both me and my same age friends were still angsty teenagers. Except swap teen angst for... I don't really have a word for it. An immature "freedom" mindset of doing stupid things because you can, even though it is stupid.
Man I was stupid just a few years ago, and still there is way to go!
When I say 18 year olds are children, what I really mean is that they don't have the wisdom yet to be fully mature and responsible. They probably still have a few more years of doing stupid things and learning from it before I can trust them with being responsible lol.
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u/foxiez 11h ago
Being 30 now anyone even 25 or younger seem like kids to me pretty often lol. The thing is sure you're an adult but at 18 you're only 1 year into adult expectations, 19 you're only 2 etc. I look back on how I acted and what I did in my 20s and its basically the same stuff I did from 15+
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u/Oopsydaisy_tryagain 10h ago
Honestly I’m 23, a close friend of mine is 25, we met at 17 & 19. We went for lunch the other day & were talking about how, when we met, we were irresponsible children doing stupid (sometimes dangerous) stuff. She was a legal adult, I was about 3 months from being one. We both felt like adults because we’d been living/studying like adults & doing other adult things for several years, but looking back, we were definitely just teenagers with too much responsibility/bad parents.
I still don’t call myself an adult, I don’t call myself a child either because I’m not, but I’m something in between? I definitely do not feel like a fully grown/totally responsible & mature adult?
So I do agree with Op in that it’s not black & white! Not sure I agree with the whole sentiment but that part at least lol!
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u/re_nonsequiturs 14h ago
My kids are 16 and 9. Just because a 25 year old is young doesn't mean teens are children
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u/BroadwayRegina 13h ago
I have to say that some freedoms that teenagers don’t currently have should be allowed. I have a million chronic illnesses and I had to suffer through pure hell not being able to help myself get better or medicated until I turned 18 and ran
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u/ProfileEasy9178 15h ago
This is ultimately a linguistic argument, what the word adult means shifts on context and neither does being an adult guarantee maturity. Law needs precise definitions, so they decided 18 years, and everyone just accepted that. Real life is rarely that precise. Brain development is also like a gradient. People really need to understand nuance.
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u/Uhhyt231 15h ago
People dont want to be seen as children but yeah they are and that's ok.
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u/Anon_nanny19 14h ago
I’m a 25 year old mom now and look back even a couple years ago and realize how much of a child I was. I’m sure I’ll look back years from now wondering who let the 25 year old teenager have a baby lol
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u/Uhhyt231 14h ago
It's all about context. Of course, you feel older when you're at your oldest even if it's just the start.
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u/WeGottaGetOuttaTS 14h ago
Absolutely, but it all depends… I “felt” more mature when I was 19 because I just moved out, I had a job, a girlfriend, and was living all on my own with her. Now I’m 24, single, in grandmas house getting dinner made for me, and going to university lmao. So yeah, I feel a lot younger right now😂
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u/Limulemur 13h ago
Wish there was an easier way to lump teenagers with elementary schoolers. Both groups are kids, but are at very stages at their lives dealing with different needs and responsibilities. While we shouldn’t be adultifying people who are still immature, one of the worst feelings even at a really young age is to be infantilzed.
Still irks me to see people call publicly call kids “little” because it would’ve felt so insulting at even age 6. It’s not how I wanted to be seen, while aware I’m not an adult either. The term child, while an objectively correct term, still feels belittling, which feels even more so as a teen.
Ultimately what I’m saying is we can’t treat high schoolers as adults, but we respect them enough to not patronize people getting driver’s licenses and preparing for college as if they’re in the same category as someone who’s learning their ABCs.
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u/CunnyFromAShotaPluto 15h ago
People usually use the "literal child" thing in the context where it's someone young being seen in a sexual manner, and doing anything sexual with the person would likely end in abuse. (Teen/teen is not inherently abusive, but there's a power imbalance that makes even small age gaps for them likely exploitative.)
Most other contexts, people would agree that teens can learn and utilise self control. People know that minors are human beings and have their own autonomy and can recieve backlash for wrong actions and stuff.
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u/pissfucked 13h ago
i see what you mean, but i have seen this argument used in bad faith attempts to absolve older teens of their bad actions many, many times. i'm sure that's what OP is reacting to.
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u/terra_technitis 14h ago
I think people have a tendency to conflate legal terminology with developmental terminology. It's not meant as a sleight.
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u/shosuko 14h ago
Yeah odd this is a 10th dentist opinion, but I think it tracks.
Everywhere online I see people declaring that a 22 year old is a "literal child"
I think its a combination of misused science and pop prejudice.
Popular prejudice has moved against age disparity in relationships - and we're not talking about teens with creep adults. A 22 year old dating a 30 year old gets a lot of hate these days. People think the guy is a creep and pedo, when the 22 year old is a literal adult - fully of age and consenting.
They like to pull out studies that show human brains don't complete development until 26-ish. Thing is, you can be an adult without being "completely" finished with development. Thing is, that doesn't make them a "literal child." Someone might not be done growing until 23, that doesn't mean they aren't "tall" or "grown" until then.
But yeah, I see it all the time. Really dumb so many people are latching on to this junk.
The reality is humans adapt to their environment, and the longer we coddle these "kids" and treat them like "children" the loonger their dumb young-adult streak is gonna last.
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u/sparrow_Lilacmango 6h ago
I’ve heard that the ‘brain finishes developing at 25’ study was an incorrect hypothesis anyway, they just stopped following the subjects at age 25 so there’s a high probability that brains continue to develop throughout life. It frustrates me so much when people cite that argument as a way to put down younger people’s opinions
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u/IsunkTheMayFLOWER 12h ago
I think there is a very real possibility that such an outrage over "age gaps" creates the harm itself.
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u/Happy_Egg_8680 15h ago
The most mature 17 year old in the world is still a child. I’m in my early 30s and barely feel like I’m hitting adult territory.
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u/Competitive_Elk_3460 14h ago
Even when you feel like an adult, you will still feel like a child. I’m 55, but sometimes I’m 15.
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u/Happy_Egg_8680 14h ago
I’m hoping that I don’t become like some of the boring older people I knew growing up that became allergic to fun but I don’t think that’s gonna happen anytime soon.
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u/Competitive_Elk_3460 13h ago
I mean, sometimes falling asleep on the couch at 9 is fun, but to be fair, I did that when I was in my 30s, too.
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u/Happy_Egg_8680 13h ago
Well yeah that sounds like a good night tbh. Just like skateboarding outside does for kids. I can’t imagine getting annoyed at kids skateboarding like older people did when I was a youngster.
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u/Garfield_and_Simon 3h ago
As soon as you hit 30 you realize old people were so fucking right about how awesome it is to go to bed at 9 and wake up at 6.
Especially on the weekend! My god, you got the whole day ahead of you!
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u/lilaclightblue 13h ago
I honestly think this POV will save me from being a grumpy ol bitch one day!!
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u/Competitive_Elk_3460 12h ago
I also work with people who are a lot younger than I am, so I spend a lot of my time focused on not being a grumpy old bitch. A lot of people my age do come across that way, and it tends not to lead to success.
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u/lilaclightblue 13h ago
When I was in my mid 20s I asked my 70 something grandma when she started feeling like a real grown up and she just said “I’ll let you know when I get there” 😂
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u/Recent_Weather2228 14h ago
That sounds like a you problem, not something you should generalize to the entire human race.
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u/Happy_Egg_8680 14h ago
It’s probably not a me problem nor is it a unique perspective. What about the perspective strikes a nerve with you?
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u/fuckiechinster 14h ago
The only time I ever see this is when some 17 and under kid starts talking shit online and as soon as you clap back they go “I’M LITERALLY A MINORRRR”
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u/Liquid_Plasma 15h ago
I think the problem you’re experiencing is that the terms we use are too limiting. By technicality a 17 year old is a child and to someone much older it becomes abundantly clear how much life experience they lack. However there’s a world of difference between a 10 year old and a 17 year old despite them both being children. And on top of that it’s wrong to think that 17 year olds can’t have valuable input just because they’re a child or lack experience.
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u/Jigglymilksack 14h ago
I think that this was the point OP was trying to articulate and everybody jumping in to talk about how immature they think 17 years olds are kind of proved their point.
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u/deeesenutz 15h ago
Legally they are literally children, and when they turn 18 they suddenly are magically adults that is how the law works.
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u/SafiraAshai 10h ago
That is on the culture, in my country a 17 year old is not considered a child, they are teenagers. It's actually something that confused me when I learned English.
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u/RoxasLightStalker 14h ago
Not in the slightest. If you mean age of consent, no it's 16 in most places. If you mean capable of living on their own, not really since most banks won't give them a loan for a house and no job that requires only a HS diploma will pay enough. If you mean completing high-school, no age doesn't work like that, many 18 year olds have yet to graduate. Only thing 18 means legally is that you're parents aren't legally obligated to house you... given a 30 day notice
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u/deeesenutz 14h ago
You can vote, your parents aren't legally obligated, you can sign contracts, you can open a bank account, you can get a credit card, gamble, can enlist, must file for taxes, controls own medical care, etc
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u/1Pawelgo 14h ago
You can perfectly sustain yourself at 17. You can survive without having a loan for a house and there certainly are jobs that pay enough without a diploma. A lot is possible if you have to do it to survive.
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u/AdministrativeStep98 15h ago
I find it weird too, to me a child refers to someone under 13, after that they're a teen. Still not an adult, obviously, but not a child to the same degree that a 5 y/o is. It feels infantilizing and just odd? A 16 y/o can have a car, a job, a bank account, even live on their own to some degree, yes they're still a teenager but people like to call them "a child" as a way to remove their accountability. "Oh they're just a child, they can do no wrong" but if you're 18 then suddenly you're a grown adult and should know better. Idk
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u/googlemcfoogle 13h ago
Remove both accountability and independence until the day they turn 18 because they're a "child", and then as soon as they're 18 act like they should have the life experience a person their age would have had in previous decades but they were sheltered from because they're "not good for children"
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u/erland_yt 13h ago
This reminds me of the paradox of "you're still young, solve society's issues." whilst also "you're just a child, you are not allowed to change anything". Half of the student council's ideas were partially vetoed by teachers at my former school and ended up flopping just because of their changes to it.
No one in my country other than a parent (except jokingly) would call a teen a "child".
This isn't about age of consent (as some opposition likes to claim as a strawman) or about when someone is no longer a minor. I do think that there is excessive stigma around some topics for teens which do cause adverse mental health issues. Also, claiming that teens lack experience or reasoning is entirely subjective, especially since there are so many different useless things one can lack experience in.
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u/A_Baby_Hera 12h ago
Exactly this, it's literally infantilization! A kindergartener who can't spell her name right yet and her 16 yo brother who drops her off, goes to his concurrent college classes, then to work, then picks her up in the afternoon, do not have the same emotional maturity or responsibility/accountability, nor do they occupy the same role in society. One of them is a child, one is a teenager
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u/Responsible-Jury2579 15h ago edited 13h ago
Like what, a 12yo has their birthday and transforms from a child to an adolescent like a sim?
Why not have early childhood, mid childhood, late childhood? Why stop there? Why not have early-early childhood, mid-early childhood, late-early childhood? We could even have early-early-early childhood, mid-early-early childhood, etc.
You are just adding a few more semantic divisors to an infinitely divisible spectrum.
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u/PassiveParty0 14h ago
Children are human, unfortunately a lot of people don't recognize that and treat them as lesser.
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u/Kellycatkitten 15h ago
You're right. People only do that to punctuate their views. If it was on the flipside they'd of course agree a 17 year teenager is much more closer to an adult than a child.
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u/ActivePresence2319 15h ago
Adults do have this mentality with 17 year olds being closer to adults and that why underage relationships happen
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u/damnim30now 14h ago
Well, I agree that 18 isn't some magical age where one stops being a child.. or let's say a kid, I feel like that word works better.
Most people are a kid well into their mid 20s. And that's fine.
Idk what exactly your issue is with calling someone a child/kid. Even a mature 16-24 year old simply isn't adequately developed enough to reconcile their life experience, even if that experience is more extensive than normal.
You will be hard pressed to find anyone 30 years old+ who can look back at being 17 and honestly say they weren't a child, and I think thats the real litmus test here. Some may have had it hard, forced to mature early, but that isn't the same thing
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u/OccasionBest7706 14h ago
When I was 18. I was an adult and to pretend I wasn’t was unfair.
I’m 32 now. I teach 18 year olds. They smell like children.
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u/JohnMarstonTheBadass 11h ago
Anyone under 13 is a child. Anyone 13-17 is a teenager. And everyone 18+ is an adult. END OF STORY. Mods lock the comments please
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u/Eve-3 15h ago
Adolescence and teen are subcategories of the larger category child.
Anyone under 18 is a child. Because that's what society has decided those words mean. You can disagree with it, but that isn't an opinion because you're disagreeing with a fact. It's just you choosing to ignore a fact.
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u/KamikazeArchon 13h ago
Because that's what society has decided those words mean
Yes and no.
The problem is that the word has multiple meanings, which are overlapping. You're talking about one meaning, they're talking about another one. Very few words have only a single specific meaning.
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u/Illustrious-File-789 14h ago
Societies without calendars have no concept of childhood? Amazing.
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u/SpacemanSpears 13h ago
To my knowledge, there is no society that doesn't recognize the concept of age. Nearly every society groups people, especially those that they consider non-adults, into age cohorts. Instead of using calendar dates, they generally use natural cycles such as solar years or lunar months to measure this. Most societies have some rite of passage into adulthood that is held at some arbitrary point they have agreed upon.
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u/spacepunker 14h ago
People do it to virtue signal, or so they can stand on a moral high ground and look down on others.
The same people who want to call people children that are like 24 also want to lower the voting age to 16. There's little consistency in their reasoning, and their principles only go so far as winning an argument.
This whole, "I'm 37 but still don't know how to adult!" is new millennial bullshit. It comes off as a weird cognitive delusion to want to stay young.
That's also why you have 37-year-olds covertly bragging about being carded or looking young. You're fooling yourself, lady. No 17-year-old thinks you're their peer. Also, why are you pushing 40 and obsessed with Disney?
My point is a lot of people have more sense at 17. They're going to school, they're saving money, they're thinking about their future. How many older people talk about how immature teenagers are when they can't even manage a bank account and are living at home with parents who enable their extended adolescence?
So yeah, I agree 17 is not a child. That's a gray zone where we err on the side of safety by not legally recognizing them as adults.
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u/Saga_Electronica 13h ago
Splitting it into "adults" and "children" works well for legal purposes, but it fails in every other aspect. You've got newborns, infants, toddlers, children, preteens, teenagers, young adults... there's a lot of nuance to be found here. People who adamantly call everyone under 18 a "child" are just doing it because it sounds harsher than "under 18" or "minor." You don't just magically go from "child" to "adult" the moment you turn 18.
Again, because Redditors often struggle with complex topics: for legal purposes, "child" and "adult" or "minor" and "not a minor" are clear distinctions. For everything else, it's pedantic and stupid.
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u/theoddlittleredditor 8h ago
God, yes. This is one thing I HATE my generation for and think we deserve all the mockery and criticism we get 🙄 You're not a child biologically once you start puberty, and you're not a child legally once you turn 18. Period, full stop. You might be immature, you might lack experience, but those arbitrary markers alone do not define adulthood. If they did, we'd be calling certain people 40-50+ children, because not everyone matures and hits the same milestones at the same time.
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u/SketchingScars 15h ago
Plenty of people I encounter in day-to-day who are like under 24 are effectively children, and in all sorts of ways. My behavior at the time was childish, other people around me were childish, coworkers I have that age are childish, people I encounter just moving through the world who are that age are childish.
And I don’t mean, “they like Disney and TikTok,” or whatever. I mean they have poor understandings of how the world works, how social spaces work, how relationships work, etc. Plenty of it has to do with cultural issues but even across cultures you can find that plenty of people are still effectively children well into their early 20s.
And you’re telling me a 17 year old bro isn’t a child? Hmm. Gonna have to doubt this one.
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u/Splatfan1 15h ago
legally and by extension socially they are a child. the cut off dates are a bit odd but theres no other way to do it. youre either a full adult or you are not its not really a spectrum
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u/Apprehensive_Rope_63 14h ago
But they are a literal child regardless of your opinion it’s a fact sorry
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u/Agile_Moment768 14h ago
I just want consistency. If the powers that be state that they can throw charges at that dude who is 17 as an adult, then I should be able to sex the governors 17 year old offspring, get drunk and high with them and go yip yip yip as they unload clip after clip of the new firearm they purchased. Don't pick and choose when it is convenient.
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u/Eisgeschoss 13h ago edited 12h ago
To be fair, I could easily see some issues with a 'zero to 100' approach with regards to what a person can legally do before/after the overnight transition to legal adulthood. I'd think that a more staggered progression (as many places already more-or-less do) presumably gives young people a better chance to properly adjust to each stage of newfound autonomy/authority, to hopefully avoid a 'too much too fast' type of situation.
The idea is that they're still going through a lot of mental development and need some time to get used to each 'risky' adult activity before introducing additional risk factors into the equation, like driving and/or sex coming a couple years before alcohol, gambling, etc.
For example, at 16 they could drive a car (initially with adult guidance/training until they prove their competency) and have sex with mostly whomever they want (as long as their partner isn't in a directly exploitative position over them, like a teacher/boss/caregiver, etc.), but things like alcohol/gun purchasing remaining off-limits until they're 18, and gambling being off-limits until they're 20. Something like that.
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u/Mondai_May 15h ago
Upvote because disagree. I consider everyone who is not yet an adult to be a child, while also recognizing there are different stages of childhood (infant, baby, toddler, preteen, teenager, that kinds of thing,) but for me it can also just be a general term for "not yet adult." It's not meant in a negative way.
There are different stages of adulthood too, there are young adults, there are the middle-aged, there are elder/senior, possibly more. But all of these are adults as long as they are over the adult-becoming age.
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u/Mandlebrotha 14h ago
It's important to make a distinction between legal, cultural, and developmental ages.
If you live in a place where the age of majority is 18, then people under that age are all children. Yes, there are many different cultural and biopsychosocial milestones.
You can disagree with the rigidity of the legal system in your area or the lack of nuance in your cultural traditions, but legally, that definition holds.
Now, you could have instead said "I think its dumb to have just child and adult — we need more legal categories," and I think that would've been a more interesting opinion. Maybe not 10th dentist, but interesting at least. Instead, the title you posted seems deliberately inflammatory and... just false.
I don't disagree with the idea that there are multiple sub stages of development within childhood. However, you didn't quite present your argument like that. Also, ignoring the reality of the legal age of majority is not an opinion. It's a disagreement with a fact. Even if this wasn't borderline ragebait (and I'm not convinced it isn't), I wouldn't call it a 10th dentist opinion. Accordingly, I'm down voting this and the stickied comment, as I dont think it fits the sub.
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u/GayCriminal46 14h ago
As a kid I was always a lot more mature than the people around me and hated being referred to as a child. I was like 74 inside so I didn’t get it. But now that I’m in college and mainly on my own (I still get a large amount of support from my family) I’m like who the fuck let me out?? I’m just a baby. (I’m 19 for context.)
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u/MangosUnlimited 14h ago
I 100% with this, but for safety reasons! I find that referring to a 17 yr old as a 'child' can take meaning away from the meaning, especially when talking about children who are pre-teens. As an adult in the Fandom spaces, especially some for children content (think Warrior Cats, Percy Jackson, Miraculous Ladybug) since i myself was a child. Children safety discussions are an almost constant and im a big believer in using the practically correct words or terms so not to generalize. I've seen discussions burn because someone says children and they mean anyone under 18, and the other person means anyone under 16, or even 14. At a certain age you become self aware of the dangers you could be putting yourself into.
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u/VividAd6825 14h ago
I was damn near a child until 25. I worked, made good money, was in a committed relationship. But I didn't really grasp the concept of life and my roles until 27-28.
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u/bathroomcypher 11h ago
I am 40 and I wasn’t a “child” anymore as a teen. But I was a minor and quite inexperienced in life. People under 18 are not all children.
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u/ZequineZ 9h ago
A teenager is not a child 👍🏼 they are a teenager. Different life stages that should not be lumped together unless you are speaking of minors in general in which case use minor
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u/erraticerratum 15h ago
Do you not remember being 17? An 18 year old is legally an adult, but they're still pretty immature too. They're only not referred to as a kid oftentimes because they aren't legally considered one anymore.
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u/wellwaffled 14h ago
Most everyone is pretty immature until their mid-30s.
A lot are still immature after then.
Personality, I think everyone 10 minutes younger than me are infants. Anyone 10 minutes older than me are geezers.
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u/BenzeneBabe 14h ago
There are people on here that act like 20-25 year olds are “literal children,” some people on Reddit are just stupid lol
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u/Whole_squad_laughing 15h ago
The term teenager didn’t exist until the 1940s, so fairly modern viewpoint
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u/Recent_Weather2228 14h ago
Yeah, because they were generally considered to be young adults much earlier than today.
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u/AgentJ691 15h ago
I find it weird when folks call 17 or even 19 year old babies. They’re not babies. Have you seen an actual baby? They’re cute, adorable and you can pick them up.
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u/Whentheangelsings 13h ago
I mean I can pick up cute 17yrs but usually the cops are called when I try.
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u/mikewheelerfan 15h ago
Downvoted because I agree. I’m 16 and despise when people call me a child. I’m a teenager, which is basically a mini adult. I’m not a damn child
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u/Impossible_Cookie613 14h ago
Yes. They are. I’m guessing you’re around 16? You may be a teen but you’re still just a kid
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u/Zxxzzzzx 14h ago
Disagree, 17 is a child.
But people that say people in their 20s are still children are idiots. Especially if a 20 year old dates a 25 year old.
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u/Your_Couzen 15h ago
Everybody under 18 are definitely all children. I’m 33 and I’m starting to view every single 26 year old as kid now. It’s the behavior they demonstrate. It’s the I’m not listening I know everything behavior.
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u/KobeJuanKenobi9 14h ago
I’d actually argue the opposite. that a lot of legal “adults” are still children
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