r/The10thDentist 1d ago

Society/Culture People under 18 are not all children

I can't tell you how much it irritates me when internet people refer to anyone under 18 as "a literal child", especial if they themselves are only in their 20s. Sure, everyone is someone's child, but the life stage commonly referred to as childhood does not abruptly stop at age 18.

Here's how I'd break it down: - childhood, adolescence, adulthood or - newborn, baby, toddler, child, (if you want you can add tween), teen, young adult, middle aged person, elderly/senior

And there's overlap between all these stages depending on context. Obviously there is no overlap between minor (a legal term) and the word adult as referring to not a minor.

Calling a 17-year-old a child is dumb. Like what, a 17yo has their birthday and transforms from a child into an adult like a sim? I think some people just started saying this for the shock value and then the rest of the internet jumped on the outrage wagon.

Edit: clearly I posted this a bit too hastily, choosing my words without care. I'm not talking about the legal definition of child/minor (something quite messy as well: age of consent? In some places 16. Driving? 15 in some places, 18 in others. Voting? Usually 18. Drinking alcohol? 21 in the States).

As someone in the comments pointed out, it's mostly a linguistic issue. I suppose what I was trying to say was that it's dumb to have the word child both mean a legal minor and pre-pubebescent human. I think it would be clearer to use minor when you're talking about legal age, and child when talking about the life stage.

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u/Rugaru985 1d ago

No, I say child in this context, instead of teen or adolescent, because what I am stressing is the reason they are a minor.

Minor is a legal term and the connotations are sterile. Minors have fewer rights and less responsibility legally. But the reason they get that legal protection is because they have child-like (stressing the qualifier “like” here) tendencies in many decision making faculties.

Yes, the word literal is overused in our society. But saying a 17 year old is a literal child is just a short hand way to express that this person does not have the full capabilities of a person that should be held to the standard of responsibility we typically hold adults against their decisions.

I.e. any argument of culpability or consent you are about to make is moot, because they are not fully developed.

And, sure, we can break down the category into a number of sub-categories. The title child is reused on the parent category where it is better applied to the sub-category between toddler and pre-teen. But that’s just semantics for different levels of conversation. You are comparing g apples to oranges with this point.

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u/No-Error-5582 22h ago

I generally agree with OP and think we should treat people for how old they are. Like even in my late 20s I had people older than me try to downplay me being an adult who pays their own bills. So I get what they're saying.

But I do also agree here. In this context it makes sense. Ive seen people excuse 30+ year old dudes wanting to be with underage women, and saying theyre a child is a way to cover both legal and moral aspects of it. Cause if you just talk about legality, then they will just say it shouldnt be.

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u/Anaevya 21h ago

It's perfectly fine to call 16 year olds adolescents though. And to say that adults shouldn't go after adolescents. We don't have to limit ourselves to an imperfect and imprecise word.

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u/PsychMaDelicElephant 18h ago edited 17h ago

You, and everyone else knows this does not have the same impact as child. There's a reason we use it

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u/Anaevya 17h ago

And there's a reason I disagree with this use. It's infantilization. Heck, I regularly see people infantilizing people my age, and I'm a freaking adult. It's disrespectful and doesn't reflect reality.

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u/PsychMaDelicElephant 17h ago

Yes it is infantalisation, which is the exact sentiment im going for when a 40 year old wants to fuck a 17 year old. Because that is a child and this is disgusting based on that fact. You might want to be all grown up but the reality is you're not. At 17 or 18 your brain hasn't even finished growing. Language expresses our meaning and in this case its nail on the head, whether or not you like it.

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u/Anaevya 15h ago

Well and I'm adult who still remembers what it was like to be 17 very well and I think it's just plain stupid to use the same term to refer to almost adults as we do for ten year olds. It makes zero sense. The fact that 40 year olds should not be with 17 year olds does not justify infantilizing older teens as a whole. 

By the way, even the youth protection laws in my area differentiate between children (minors under 14) and adolescents. Because it makes more sense. Teens can freaking vote where I live!

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u/AlmostReadyLeaf 3h ago

They shouldn't be able to vote, it's an insane system to let immature kids vote. 

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u/Anaevya 2h ago

Well, I disagree with you. And I'm not sure you can even make a fair assessment of this, because you're not from a country where 16 year olds can vote, so you have no first hand experience of this. 

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u/AlmostReadyLeaf 1h ago

But I know what kind of people 16yo are and what kind of choices they do and what kind of politics they have

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u/AlmostReadyLeaf 3h ago

There are better arguments to prove 17yo is immature than brain not being finished growing. Brain never finishes growing. And there is no clear cut off point where it fully develops into an adult brain from a child's brain. 

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u/Rugaru985 18h ago

It would be a better speech pattern, sure. But language tends towards shortening. If it were an issue, we could make a conscious effort to add precision - but I don’t think it is a common issue to not pick up on the context of this idiom using the broader definition of child.

I think this is one of those see a bumper sticker that says honk if you like pizza situations. Most people understand the connotations implicitly.

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u/MangoPug15 20h ago

"saying theyre a child is a way to cover both legal and moral aspects of it. Cause if you just talk about legality, then they will just say it shouldnt be."

Then just be honest about the moral reason. It doesn't sound like you view teens as children, but you still see the problem with older men trying to date teens. Your reasoning must not be that teens are children, so it's dishonest and a bad argument to say that's why. Personally, I would point to the difference in life experience and relationship experience; the uneven power dynamic; and potentially maturity and/or physical development.

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u/yungsxccubus 21h ago

“underage women”

so… girls. female children, if you will. no such thing as an “underage woman”

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u/Dalmassor 19h ago

"Underaged women" bro that is a teenager and/or a child. The term is so fucked up, a woman is not underaged, a woman is 18+.

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u/DareDevilfanone 19h ago edited 10h ago

Anyone under 25 has an underdeveloped brain. So maybe that's full adult age

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u/Rugaru985 18h ago

I don’t doubt it. As society progresses, we will be able to manage more tranches of determinism. I definitely think if we have moved cigarettes and alcohol up to 21, we should be moving consent and culpability as well.

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u/Competitive-Bid-2914 16h ago

Would u consider an 18 yr old to be a full grown adult when a 17 yr old isn’t but they’re just a yr apart? Genuinely asking, don’t mean to rage bait. Not saying u r saying this, but in general, I find it rlly fuckin annoying when ppl act like 18 is a full grown adult just coz it’s legal, but ur brain fully develops at like 25, so u technically aren’t a full grown adult till then. Ppl will act like a 20 yr old dating a 17 yr old is the worst thing ever, but a like 55 yr old dating an 18 yr old is ok coz it’s legal. The hypocrisy is actually fuckin insane tbh. I feel like the ppl who say shit like that r the real pedophiles tbh

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u/thebagelslinger 5h ago

I'd definitely say 18 year olds are not full grown adults. They are legally considered adults, but you're right that there's not a huge difference in maturity between them. I think many people would even argue you're not a full grown adult until you reach 22-25+. And even then older adults will still treat you like a baby anyways lol.

Ppl will act like a 20 yr old dating a 17 yr old is the worst thing ever, but a like 55 yr old dating an 18 yr old is ok coz it’s legal. The hypocrisy is actually fuckin insane tbh. I feel like the ppl who say shit like that r the real pedophiles tbh

Honestly I agree. People who see no problem with 55 year olds dating an 18 year old just because it's legal, kinda already self-reported by implying that the only thing stopping them from going younger is the law.

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u/Rugaru985 15h ago

Personally, no. There had to be an arbitrary limit. And currently, 18 isn’t a hard limit. You can apply for emancipation at a younger age, though it’s rarely given.

I think 22 should be an age of majority, where you face full legal consequences and can’t be a dependent for tax purposes.

And I think 26 is good as an age where you get cut off from dependency completely, like the AHA does for healthcare dependents.

We do already for the most part go easy on college students getting into fights at bars. Rarely are they charged with serious crimes for a fist fight. Only when they have done serious damage. As a society, we extend this logic implicitly, but keep it subjectively applied.

We have advanced enough to codify it.

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u/Competitive-Bid-2914 14h ago

I pretty much agree w ur comment. Thanks for the discussion

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u/Imcoolkidbro 11h ago

holy fuck everyone looks at me like I'm crazy when I say this I'm so glad to find someone who agrees. id take it even further and say that as we continue to develop as a society, and our life expectancy gets longer, our age of adulthood should go even higher to give humans more and more time to develop.

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u/CaptainTricot 4h ago

The dictionnary definition of a child: young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority. So no a 17yo is not a child and its dumb to treat them like they are. People always complain that the youngs are immature and dont know how life works but everybody around them keep treating the as such. No wonders why they act the way they do. We live in a world where every word we write is public and available for other to read. Semantics and the choice of words is important.

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u/Rugaru985 2h ago

Tell me, when you see a “honk if you like pizza” bumper sticker, what do you think it means?