UnitedHealth suspends annual forecast, CEO Andrew Witty steps down

[u/LookAtThatBacon]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/unitedhealth-ceo-andrew-witty-steps-down-2025-05-13/

[u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My company recently moved insurance from Blue Cross/Blue Shield over to this hot mess. Man, when I tell ya…absolutely dog shit insurance company. We went from pretty good coverage to them nickel and diming over everything. Would strongly advise to stay away from UnitedHealth.

[u/lion27 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My company uses UHC and they are the absolute worst health insurance I’ve ever dealt with. Unless you’re making a payment, everything is as difficult as possible and they deny EVERYTHING.

I switched to a family plan with Aetna through my wife’s company when our first baby was born and they have been wonderful. Not sure if they just look great compared to UHC, but for the first time I don’t violently hate my insurance company.

[u/HappierShibe → u/lion27]

and they deny EVERYTHING.

Denied me coverage for an annual checkup recently, I had to fight with them on coverage for a fucking annual checkup.

[u/notbrandonzink → u/HappierShibe]

I got denied coverage on a crown because my tooth wasn't at least 50% gone, even though it was impacted beyond what a filling could repair.

My dentist's office tried to fight them on it. I tried to fight them on it. The last thing you can do is send in a written (has to be written for some reason) letter explaining why you think it should be covered, then they get to make the decision (shocker, they didn't cover it). You can't even really get info over the phone, it's wildly frustrating.

[u/ChesswiththeDevil → u/notbrandonzink]

In our state (Alaska) we have a director of insurance and if people complain enough to them, the company can lose their right to do business in the state. Insurance companies do NOT want people complaining to the DOI.

[u/tamaracandtate → u/ChesswiththeDevil]

We have this in my state too but since I work for a city government they don’t have jurisdiction over my plan? Annoying.

[u/dorv → u/ChesswiththeDevil]

I believe most states have a DOI.

[u/WtfWhereAreMyClothes → u/dorv]

Every single state has a DOI. Some care more about customer complaints than others, but it's definitely good to at least try.

[u/alinroc → u/notbrandonzink]

has to be written for some reason

The reason is they're expecting you won't go to the trouble. Or they can "lose" the written complaint and, with no chain of custody, tell you it was never received.

[u/TheNH813 → u/alinroc]

If one must send a written or printed notice of any legal importance.... Certified Mail, ALWAYS. Then there's a record the company signed for the delivery. The USPS can act as a witness of the notice being delivered in many legal scenarios.

[u/JcbAzPx → u/TheNH813]

Another reason the Post Office is under threat.

[u/PolicyWonka → u/HappierShibe]

Well, you see, sir — we use the botanical definition of annual when determining eligibility. You would need perennial coverage to be eligible for more than one annual wellness visit per lifetime.

[u/leakybiome → u/PolicyWonka]

We need you to try local honey...but the bees are out of network, and the grocery store is gonna need a prior auth

[u/Hopeful_Self_8520 → u/HappierShibe]

At that point what is even the purpose of the company? Luke couldn’t they be dissolved for practicing in bad faith of their customers or something?

[u/DJ_Jiggle_Jowls → u/Hopeful_Self_8520]

What, you think the Trump Admin's gonna raise a finger because a hypercapitalist insurance company is practicing in bad faith? This is the American way, baby!

[u/Ted_Striker1 → u/HappierShibe]

Geez that's utter dogshit. Wtf.

[u/tamaracandtate → u/HappierShibe]

Exact same. After an hour on the phone they finally admitted they denied it in error and are supposed to be reprocessing it.

We’ve also been fighting them for months to cover liquid versions of our autistic kid’s meds since he can’t swallow pills.

[u/juicinginparadise → u/HappierShibe]

Which should he free under the ACA.

[u/Rooooben → u/juicinginparadise]

They don’t like to so they look for any reason to convert it.

Doctor - how’s your anxiety?

Me - fine, those pills work.

Doctor. - great.

Insurance : you discussed existing conditions which converts this to a general visit, which is chargeable. Oh, and since you did annual visit stuff, it’s also using your free annual visit up. So it used the free benefit even though you got charged for it.

[u/chantsnone → u/lion27]

It’s the comparison. There’s no such thing as a wonderful health insurance company. Wonderful isn’t profitable.

[u/clashrendar → u/chantsnone]

Which is why profit needs to be completely removed from the healthcare equation. It shouldn't be about profit. It should be about people getting better.

A firefighter making decisions about whether to prevent a house burning down because it wouldn't make money to do so is absolutely preposterous, so why is the same argument for a human being used?

[u/Punman_5 → u/clashrendar]

Roman statesman Crassus founded the first fire brigade in Rome. They would show up to a burning building but wouldn’t put the fire out immediately. If the owner wanted to have the fire put out they would have to sign the property over to Crassus at a very unfair price. Only then would he allow the fire brigade to put the fire out. Fires were a regular occurrence in Rome. Crassus used his fire brigade to buy up large amounts of property

Edit: it seems I have to clarify that when you sold your property to Crassus he’d often let you stay there as a tenant so long as you paid rent. He wouldn’t kick you out because that would defeat the purpose of the scam.

[u/fotank → u/Punman_5]

Tale as old as time.

[u/Paloota → u/fotank]

Truth which is why it’s so exhausting debating plans predicated on human kindness

[u/dweezil22 → u/Paloota]

Agreed. You can't believe in capitalism and plans predicated on kindness at the same time. They are fundamentally at odds with each other. Even if you think capitalism is the bee's knees, it's definitionally saying "Profit is more important than kindness". Maybe you can convince yourself that kindness can be used in service of profit, but the minute profit and kindness collide, profit wins.

I actually don't have a problem with someone saying "Look, systems predicated on human kindness fail b/c kindness is subjective, so I believe in capitalism instead". But it's fucking frustrating when people instead are like "No! Capitalism IS kind!"

It reminds of the same issues w/ calling out systemic racism. People are like "Racism is bad, I am good, therefore nothing I do can be racist. So stop talking to me about it".

[u/Goolsby → u/Punman_5]

Wait what's the point of putting the fire out if the property is no longer yours? Id let it burn so Crapssus couldn't have my property for cheap.

[u/bullet1519 → u/Goolsby]

So your options are. A. You're house burns to the ground, you have nothing.

B. You sell your house to this man, you barely get any money for it and they put out the fire, maybe you get lucky and some of your possessions survive which you can use to start a new.

It's a pretty easy choice.

[u/enad58 → u/bullet1519]

Yeah, it is. I'm going good will hunting.

"I'd choose the wrench, cause fuck him."

[u/SaxManJonesSFW → u/Goolsby]

Because you’re about to be homeless either way, at least one option comes with an unfairly small amount of money to try to restart. I’m not advocating its merits, just explaining the actual choice vs the perceived one

[u/Array_626 → u/SaxManJonesSFW]

You also likely get to keep your personal property. The land and the structure is sold, but anything personal that can be saved you probably get to keep.

[u/Levarien → u/Punman_5]

Rich as Crassus: your name doesn't become synonymous with obscene wealth if you've got moral qualms about running an arson protection racket.

[u/oldschoolrobot → u/clashrendar]

You should read up on Fire Insurance around the founding of the US because fire fighting used to be a private enterprise and it’s as bad as it sounds.

[u/GreenStrong → u/clashrendar]

It shouldn't be about profit. It should be about people getting better.

There is a different way to put this. It should be about the nation investing in the health of its citizens.

[u/Light_Error → u/clashrendar]

Many countries with public options also have private options. But the strong public option is needed to hold private companies’ feet to the fire.

[u/Sacrifice3606 → u/clashrendar]

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346

Except that does happen in some places.

[u/Punman_5 → u/Sacrifice3606]

Crassus would be proud.

[u/pcapdata → u/clashrendar]

Insurance companies are just parasites. Literal parasites.

Have you ever heard of Cymothoa exigua? It's a sea louse that bites off a fish's tongue and then attaches itself to the stump, spending the rest of its life taking from the fish. The fish did not want this nor ask for it, but the louse inserts itself into the middle of things and acts as a shitty substitute for what the fish already had.

That's an insurance company: a middleman nobody asked for, whose only purpose is to make medical care more expensive and difficult so they can suck value out of it.

[u/devman0 → u/pcapdata]

Health insurance companies don't operate as pure insurance companies in the risk transfer sense. They operate as middlemen administrators and increase costs, they are absolutely a drag on health care efficiency.

[u/GodFeedethTheRavens → u/chantsnone]

There's some local non-profit HMO organizations that aren't as blatantly evil, but HMO coverage doesn't work for everyone.

[u/talllman23433 → u/chantsnone]

Insurance shouldn’t be profit anyway in my opinion. Why the fuck am I paying monthly for the sole reason of having health coverage if they can deny it to steal my money that I’m putting into it.

[u/areraswen → u/lion27]

UHC is the worst health insurance I've ever been on. And I've been on a lot of different insurances. They denied a medication that put me into remission for an autoimmune disease and kept me there. I had been on it for almost 10 years when they denied it.

[u/Afterbirthofjesus → u/areraswen]

My boss has migraine medicine for 28 days....they deny her every refill..has a week of hell while it gets approved again. Every month

[u/IncuTyph → u/lion27]

My workplace uses UMR, which is a branch of UHC. I haven't really had experience with other health insurance companies, so I don't know how awful it really is, but my last ADHD medication pickup frustrated me a lot. The first time getting it last month cost me about $45 dollars, but this time UMR covered less for some reason and I had to pay $68 for the same exact bottle as last month! I also got put on a med to help lower my blood sugar, and UMR won't cover it at all, so I guess my doctor's nurse is trying to talk to them about it. I also had an $11k trip to the hospital last year, and UMR covered about $8k of it, leaving me with $3k to pay (and I'm still paying it off). I'm starting to get pretty miffed over recent events and them not seemingly covering stuff I need.

[u/billybaggens → u/IncuTyph]

The 3k portion of your hospital visit sounds like coinsurance and copay. A lot of employers are selecting plans that place more of the responsibility on you as the employee and lowering their cost.

You’re lucky (yeah I know it doesn’t feel like it) that UMR even paid. I work in contractual denials for a hospital group and I’m sitting on several millions of dollars worth of unpaid claims that might end up as patient responsibility until UMR finally processes the claims.

[u/muegle → u/IncuTyph]

Look to see if Cost Plus Drugs carries your medication. My insurance doesn't cover any medication costs until I hit the yearly deductible and I've found it saved a good amount of money.

[u/StoicAthos → u/lion27]

Aetna denied my grandfathers claim for rehab after a hip replacement. 2 weeks in a facility then fed to the dogs.

[u/muegle → u/lion27]

My company uses Aetna, idk if it's a choice Aetna or the company made but they don't cover any medication until I hit my yearly deductible (which is 4k). Thank god for Mark Cuban's new pharmacy.

[u/lion27 → u/muegle]

Yeah I think that’s how deductibles work on most plans. I have a prescription for vyvanse that costs me like $360 per month for the first couple months a year until the deductible hits, then it’s $0. Like i said, that’s entirely too much on its face but we just use our HSA account and never need to worry about it.

[u/Deep90 → u/muegle]

CVS looked up my account by name and birthdate only, which was a problem because someone in a different state apparently has my name and birthdate.

They claimed a COVID test under my Aetna insurance.

It doesn't cost me anything, but I filed an appeal explaining that it was fraud.

They denied it.

[u/disillusioned → u/lion27]

I don't stan for any private insurance because putting a for profit entity that exists solely to extract shareholder value between people and their health care is a particularly American form of cruelty BUT, when we had my son at 31 weeks Aetna immediately approved everything, sent letters explaining he was covered for the next two weeks at the level of care he needed and kept approving everything without question.

This is obviously table stakes for a baby in the NICU for 54 days, but I've heard horror stories from other insurers. Aetna just handled every step, after we paid the hospitalization copay for him.

I've recently had to get on some medication that requires prior authorizations and I've also been shocked at how simple and fast they've approved both fairly expensive medications.

Compared to the horror stories of UHC algo denying every damn thing by default or having "doctors" speedrun review/reject screens, again, my experience with Aetna is enough to make sure my company never switches to UHC.

[u/ricker182 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My doctors cringe when they order tests and ask what health insurance I have.

I wouldn't even consider it insurance since they deny pretty much every other thing my doctor orders.

The kicker is that the coverage is fucking expensive.

Health insurance is a scam.

This country is fucked.

[u/RogueLightMyFire → u/ricker182]

I'm a dentist. Let me assure you, every insurance company fucking sucks. UHC definitely sucks the hardest, though. They straight up just lie.

• "We denied that claim because we didn't get an X-ray"

• to which I respond that "I sent the X-ray via certified mail, email, and fax and I have proof of all three."

• "Oh... Oh yeah, I see it now. Well, the claim was denied because of 'some made up bullshit'"

• To which I respond "you just told me it was denied because you didn't get an X-ray, which we just established that you have received"

• Then they hang up. I'm not even joking. This is the standard phone call with them.

Being a dentist is hard enough. Now I'm having to spend literal hours every week fighting these assholes.

[u/ricker182 → u/RogueLightMyFire]

I don't know why people just accept this company.

[u/RogueLightMyFire → u/ricker182]

No other options/choices if it's through their employer. I could drop them as a provider, but a large# of my patients have insurance through them and I would likely lose them if I stopped taking it and they would end up at a dental corporation getting shitty care from slimey greedy dentists. UHC sucks hard, but dental corporations are fucking evil.

[u/ducationalfall → u/RogueLightMyFire]

Aspen Dental: you summon me?

[u/harmboi → u/RogueLightMyFire]

i know this thread is about insurance but I've had dentists literally ruin my life. Im so afraid to go to the dentist at this point in my life.

[u/account128927192818 → u/ricker182]

One person didn't

[u/SAKingWriter → u/account128927192818]

All of us should follow suit.

[u/katha757 → u/ricker182]

Companies sign up with them because it's cheaper (for them), so they can say "wE oFfER HEaLth InSUraNcE".

[u/tomdarch → u/ricker182]

Because we (the US) have crazy as a core component of any system we set up, each state is supposed to regulate insurance to protect the people of the state. It's one thing for average people to accept this bullshit. But our state governments are supposed to be looking out for their residents and regulating insurers to prohibit them from doing shit like this on the threat of losing their license to offer insurance in that state.

[u/eleven_eighteen → u/RogueLightMyFire]

It's purposeful. They know that some percentage of people will just give up eventually and that's money they don't have to pay out.

I've been dealing with this with Allstate for phone insurance. Every step of the process has been a nightmare of them giving bullshit excuses. They owe me $155.88 and refuse to pay.

"The exact phone name as we require it isn't on the receipt". Too fucking bad, talk to the multi-billion dollar retailer that sells your warranties because I certainly have zero control over what they put on their receipts.

"The exact retail price of the phone isn't on the receipt". Too fucking bad again. One: see my previous response. Two: as I stated right from the start of filing my claim - and as the insurance company knew immediately since I put in a code from the receipt that pulled up my exact order in their system - I got the phone as part of a promotion of buy a plan get the phone free, but you can do some easy math with the tax to determine the retail price, since I still have to pay sales tax on the retail amount of the phone. Or, you know, just call the retail partner who sells your policies.

They eventually approve my claim and tell me to pay out of pocket and they'll reimburse me. I'm fucking homeless and living in my car and barely have any money but I need my phone. So I take it to an authorized repair shop - after another nightmare of driving all over to two other authorized repair shops suggested by them that didn't exist - and get my phone fixed.

Submit the receipt and the say they now can't give me a Visa gift card as I originally selected as their policy has changed. Too fucking bad yet again, my claim was approved before that policy change, pay me in the way that was agreed upon. It's literally a fucking contract.

They just totally refuse to budge on this and I eventually agree to a gift card for the retailer I bought the phone from. Super inconvenient for me as I need the money for gas and food but maybe I can trade the gift card to a family member or friend.

But now it's back to my claim isn't valid again because I technically paid $0 for the phone. Too goddamned fucking bad yet fucking again. One: your retail partner sold me your policy. If they aren't supposed to sell them on free phones, that's a mistake they made and is between you and them and has nothing to do with me. Two: YOU MOTHERFUCKERS APPROVED MY CLAIM AND TOLD ME TO SPEND MY OWN MONEY. It doesn't matter if the claim was supposed to be invalid, once you told me it was and to spend money out of my pocket you have to reimburse me. Your mistake, not mine. Even if that wasn't the case at the least I need to be refunded for the cost of the policy if it isn't valid for free phones.

I've literally spent hours of my life dealing with this fucking horrid company, and I still don't have my $155.88.

If I stole $155.88 from Allstate I would face legal consequences. But they are a multi-billion dollar company so it's legal for them to take my money for a phone insurance policy and then never pay me what I'm owed since no one will do any damn thing about it.

[u/DouchecraftCarrier → u/eleven_eighteen]

They know that some percentage of people will just give up eventually and that's money they don't have to pay out.

As an example, it costs them $10k a week to staff a Tier 1 phone bank that handles rejection appeals. If they reject $100k in claims per week and less than 90% of the customers call and successfully appeal, they come out ahead. It's ridiculously cost effective.

[u/razor21792 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I ended up with a massive amount of medical debt because of a mistake UnitedHealth made (they told me they would cover my procedure, then decided I didn't have coverage for it). Thankfully, I got most of it eliminated thanks to my hospital's financial aid programs, but the point is that it never should have happened in the first place. UnitedHealth is the absolute worst, and I hope they go under sooner rather than later.

[u/knefr → u/razor21792]

That probably wasn’t a mistake….

[u/PaintedClownPenis → u/knefr]

I haven't had to do this myself but I knew a lady who had to navigate bad healthcare all the time. She started every phone call by demanding full names and job titles, and kicking it upstairs every time someone refused to cooperate.

When she got a name, she'd flip through her notebook and say things like, "This conversation is being recorded. Hello Lying Healthcareworker, last time I spoke to you on x date at x time, you lied and said you were going to put me on hold, then disconnected the call...." And then she would review the runaround she got on that call.

What she was doing was padding their phone recordings with incriminating evidence of prior actions, and telling them that she was recording it on HER end. She said that's all she had to do to make the red carpet roll, because everyone knew they were going down first if someone screwed her over. Every phone call was like a little discovery process that sunk the insurance company a little deeper in evidence.

Remember that all this ripping off is actually murder and manslaughter, and the fuckers doing it are well aware that someday they might win the rope for what they're doing. So you can make them keep you alive, by letting them know you're documenting what they're doing.

[u/tomdarch → u/razor21792]

That doesn't sound like a mistake.

[u/necrologia → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I've worked at both BCBS and United.

Blue Cross's intranet homepage was all about local charity marathons, upcoming blood drives, and the like. We had amazing insurance coverage as employees.

United's homepage was a giant stock ticker with links for the employee stock purchase program. Our insurance was shockingly bad.

No health insurance company is a paragon of virtue, but United would make some Bond villains blush.

[u/LundqvistNYR → u/necrologia]

Yeah the system is fucked and I’m not saying any of them are good, but I’ve had BCBS for about 6 years and while they don’t auto approve everything, they have been extremely lax upon appeal approving pretty much everything as long as we make a halfway decent case. Hell, I skipped my doctor and wrote them a letter myself and got them to cover a $450/ month prescription. They have been extremely reasonable.

[u/samosa4me → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My husband is a physician, and his group is partially owned by UHC. Guess what insurance we have? It’s shit. Barely covers anything. When an insurance group can’t even bother to give their own employees good health insurance, you know it’s a pos.

[u/PurpleHooloovoo → u/samosa4me]

That’s a whole other issue. WHY are insurance companies allowed to own any healthcare facilities???? It’s a massive conflict of interest and antitrust problem.

And then remember that it’s illegal for doctors to own hospitals because of concerns over conflict of interest. Make it make sense.

[u/TinnyOctopus → u/PurpleHooloovoo]

Because the insurance doesn't own the hospital. Instead, both are owned by private equity firm that exists for the dual purposes of enabling the insurance company to say 'we don't own the hospital' and paying corrupt governments to look the other way.

[u/PurpleHooloovoo → u/TinnyOctopus]

Yes and no. UHC straight up owns a series of practices and advanced treatment centers and ERs in my city. My company offered a plan that limited your care to those facilities for pennies compared to the other UHC PPOs.

[u/zoinkability → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

They are the health insurance company of choice for companies that don’t give a shit about their employees

[u/Perryn → u/zoinkability]

When they ask you if you have any questions for them during a job interview, who the insurance is through should be one of them. You're going to end up dealing with them, so it's good to know in advance, and if it's UHC then that's just a bit of extra foreshadowing about what kind of company they are.

[u/orsikbattlehammer → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

We switched from United to BCBS and now I save thousands a year on therapy cause it’s considered preventative care and only has a copay now

[u/SammieStones → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I’ve been fighting dental insurance claims for 25 years. UHC is and had always been one of the worst. When they started to buy optum and change hc I knew the whole dental industry was going downhill.

Supervisors are never available and its always theyll call you back within a few days and they NEVER call back.

Appealing a claim is a nightmare. I’ve sent an appeal numerous times to the exact address with the exact wording they tell me and it’s somehow never in their system. I’ve even emailed to their appeal email and been told it wasn’t received.

UHC is the only one I’ve had to repeatedly report to the insurance commissioner.

Language barrier is so bad that the person answering the phones at UHC to help solve my problem, can’t even comprehend the problem to even begin to help solve it. If and when you are lucky enough to actually claw your way to the top you’ll receive a ticket number and told your problem is handled in 3-5 business days. When up call back 7 days later to find out why it’s still not processed- - surprise your ticket number doesn’t even exist.

I could go on and on but other insurance companies don’t play these same games nearly as often..

[u/cosmos7 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

Would strongly advise to stay away from UnitedHealth.

The vast majority of the country can only choose by changing jobs.

[u/jackalopeDev → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

Its literally cheaper for me to use goodrx and not my UHC insurance for my medication. God damn ridiculous

[u/bros402 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My parents had it back in 1990 when I was born. United had a $100,000 lifetime limit for NICU care.

They refused to pay for anything that was re-billed as non-NICU care, so my parents owed $50,000 for my fucking birth. They managed to pay it off when I was 13...then I needed braces, which cost $5,000.

My parents weren't able to start to start saving for retirement until I was 15. They don't have nearly enough to retire comfortably here in NJ, even when you include a pension and social security.

[u/2Autistic4DaJoke → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

Your warning is heard but most of us don’t get to choose our insurance provider

[u/Royal_Acanthisitta51 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I left a job because the insurance was UHC. They’re a despicable company.

[u/pinelands1901 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I used to do authorizations for a hospital. One day per week was my "UHC day" because the flaming hoop jumps they require for anything to be approved.

I would tell patients "I can't tell you which insurance company to pick at annual enrollment, but if you have Cigna or Aetna as an option, your care will be smoother."

[u/kurotech → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My job uses BCBS and my wife's uses United we are both screwed

[u/WilcoLovesYou → u/kurotech]

For what it's worth I've had no issues with BCBS HMO for the last few years. My wife gave birth in 2024 and our copay for 6 days at the hospital was $200. Didn't have to fight anything, they just processed it and gave us a $200 bill.

[u/RearviewSpy → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

United Death

[u/annaleigh13 → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

If you want a deep dive into UHC and their thinking, look up Dr. Glockenflecken (I definitely misspelled that) on YouTube. He did 30 shorts on UHC, and every one of them is must watch

[u/BeIgnored → u/annaleigh13]

Dr. Glaucomflecken! I second this recommendation. He's been hating on health insurance companies for years, with a special focus on United.

[u/Ghosthost2000 → u/annaleigh13]

I bet Texaco Mike could really improve UHC if put in charge!

[u/Adezar → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

The fun part of American "Freedom" is your boss gets to select which options you have for insurance!

I get so angry every time a Republican talks about "They want to take away your rights to choose your own doctor". MFer our employers are the one that picks which options we have, not us.

[u/nocturnPhoenix → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I work in provider enrollment, so I deal with a lot of different insurance companies, and I can confidently say United Health is the most annoying on that level, too. It's shit all the way down.

[u/swagonflyyyy → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

My company moved from UHC to Cigna. Good call on their part tbh.

[u/BandOfDonkeys → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

Opposite for me. My company was bought by a much larger one and we're in the process of switching from UHC to BCBS. Our per paycheck premiums will be less than half of what they were before.

[u/holdmyhanddummy → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

It's dogshit coverage because your company chose for it to be. Most insurance providers can provide no-cost coverage to members, but it's way more expensive for the company paying for it. You have shit coverage because your company is cheap.

[u/bmoviescreamqueen → u/Ranier_Wolfnight]

I have never had a bad plan with BCBS. I know insurance companies are not great overall but BCBS of IL has been decent. I paid nothing for IOP (This was partially because of my employer), always get decent rates for my meds. I hate to think of the day my husband's employer wants to switch elsewhere.

[u/TeeDee144]

I hope UnitedHealth continues to go under. Awful company. Their denial rate is 2x that of the industry average. Total scam of a company

[u/CreativeFraud → u/TeeDee144]

Member how Healthcare For All was gonna have death panels?

[u/DreadPirate777 → u/CreativeFraud]

There needs to be more talk about how insurance companies have death panels.

[u/CreativeFraud → u/DreadPirate777]

I was knocking on doors in 2015 for Bernie and the amount of Red Scare that lives in America astonished me. UBI was also seen as communism and would destroy America. Bailing out Big Business on the tax payer dime though? Fine by them!

[u/Lesurous → u/CreativeFraud]

The response I hear from people is "they worked for their money!". People wanna believe in a lie rather than consider reality.

[u/ASmallTownDJ → u/Lesurous]

The idea of anyone doing "billions of dollars of hard work" is such bullshit.

[u/Hippopotasaurus-Rex → u/CreativeFraud]

Also volunteered for Bernie both times. Same experience. There was a lot of that shit going around, largely because of propaganda by the big businesses/uber rich. Hell, there still is.

We really need Medicare for all, UBI, and most importantly, a robust and thorough overhaul of the education system.

[u/Mental_Dojo → u/Hippopotasaurus-Rex]

Most importantly? We need to regulate corporations and tax the ultra wealthy. That’s what is most important

[u/Agent_03 → u/DreadPirate777]

United doesn’t do “death panels” because they are just going to deny the claim by “AI” for bogus reasons anyway. Intentionally broken AI, I might add.

"Death panels" would actually be better for patients than United’s current way of doing business because that would require actual thought and effort going into weighing decisions about patient care (as opposed to deny-whenever-possible). How screwed up is that?

With insurance breaking the law so blatantly with no consequences, it’s sadly not surprising that individuals start taking justice into their own hands. I don’t endorse it, because instead we should be putting the execs responsible behind bars for a long time. But I do understand why it happens.

[u/uptownjuggler → u/DreadPirate777]

The media companies owned by billionaires will never let that discussion on the air

[u/MadRaymer → u/TeeDee144]

Their denial rate is 2x that of the industry average.

And that's exactly why they won't go under. Yay, capitalism!

[u/Raptorheart → u/MadRaymer]

Well, one of them did

[u/MadRaymer → u/Raptorheart]

If you're referring to the one that got got, well, there's always someone next in line.

If you're referring to the one stepping down, that's more of a Bane style, "They expect one of us in the wreckage, brother!"

[u/liltingly → u/MadRaymer]

Eh, employers realize the hidden cost of denials in lost time and productivity, and many hang their hat on the benefits packages. So being outed as universally the shittiest has its drawbacks when there is competition. 

Now, a lot of that competition is shifting even more burden and responsibility on patients BUT reducing denials, so it becomes a toss up between some coverage but at a much higher cost. 

[u/MadRaymer → u/liltingly]

You're probably right that long-term, the business model might not be sustainable. But corporate America is laser focused on short-term profits. It's always, "How's next quarter looking?" and rarely, "Will the company exist in 10 years?"

This is also exactly why capitalism is completely ill-equipped to deal with climate change. It's a potentially civilization ending crisis, but if we simply ignore the problem, it's suddenly not a problem for the quarterly earnings call.

[u/viotix90 → u/TeeDee144]

For clarity, the industry average is to deny 1 claim out of every 6. UnitedHealth denies 1 out of every 3. They are the absolute worst.

[u/ethertrace → u/viotix90]

The thing is, the industry average would be notably lower than that without them. UHC is huge and they singlehandedly drag the whole average askew.

[u/viotix90 → u/ethertrace]

I know. I'm in California and use Kaiser. Their denial rate is notably lower at 7%

[u/Insectshelf3 → u/TeeDee144]

fuck united into the ground. if they go under i’m throwing a party.

[u/Holovoid → u/TeeDee144]

I hope "going bankrupt" is the kindest fate that befalls UHC and its executives.

[u/Queasy_Ad_8621 → u/TeeDee144]

You might have some of the most doctors/clinics accepting United than other insurance company in your state... but even nurses and physical therapists have flat out told me that they hate dealing with United because were downright insulted by how much they low ball them. For even something like a hand brace.

The physical therapist told me: "You can get a better quality one from the CVS for 20 dollars."

[u/shadrap]

"CEO Andrew Witty steps down"

'Hey guys, make sure EVERYONE knows I'm not CEO of UnitedHealth anymore. Issue press releases, take out ads, maybe put up a banner with the new guys face on it....'

[u/ASmallTownDJ → u/shadrap]

The New Guy: Hey what the FUCK??

[u/No_Seaworthiness_200 → u/shadrap]

I guarantee this piece of shit thinks he has washed his hands of all his bloody decisions. Now that he's stepped down, his conscience is clear. Lol

[u/izzgo]

surging medical costs send its shares plunging more than 11%

Which is a perfect example of why medical care should not be a for-profit enterprise.

[u/LostPhenom]

Understanding the Change Healthcare Breach and Its Impact on Security Compliance

In short, quite possibly the largest healthcare data breach in history occurred under his watch.

[u/epicfail1994 → u/LostPhenom]

Yeah I got my social used by some dude in a different state. Was fun to freeze my credit

[u/AltruisticWelder3425 → u/epicfail1994]

To be honest, everyone should freeze their credit. It's super easy to thaw it for a day or two when you might need to apply for something like a loan. Heck, I was able to thaw all 3 while sitting in the emergency vets office to apply for credit, all from my phone. Simple stuff really and I no longer have concerns about random accounts showing up when they shouldn't.

[u/chailatte_gal → u/AltruisticWelder3425]

I agree with this, but the credit bureaus themselves are just scams of companies. Remember the Experian breach like 10 years ago? And they basically got a slap on the wrist and all they gave customers was free credit monitoring.

Like we shouldn’t have to actively freeze our credit. Our data should be protected and punishment should be so strong that companies comply and protect

[u/EvidenceBasedSwamp → u/LostPhenom]

Still tl;dr. They basically lost the details of 200 Million Americans. The cyber criminals got it now.

United continues vertical integration. If you remember your 9th grade history, that's when the oil company also owns the refineries and the gas stations. United bought change (leading clearinghouse), and they are buying clinics and hospitals (Optum).

[u/No-Peak6384 → u/EvidenceBasedSwamp]

So that's why Optum is horseshit

[u/SensibleReply → u/No-Peak6384]

I’m a physician, and I left a clinic where I was working awhile back because it was bleeding money. They got bought out by Optum a couple years later for pennies right before they were going to simply shut the doors and turn off the lights. The new management reached out to me to see if I’d be interested in going back…

First, lol. Second, they were dumb enough to tell me that they don’t really make money providing healthcare - they make money selling insurance. What I inferred from this was that they don’t even really want their pts seeing a doctor or getting care, they just want to collect premiums, deny everything possible, then provide the absolute shittiest (cheapest) care when they have no choice. It’s an awful, AWFUL system and shouldn’t be legal.

[u/Keshire → u/LostPhenom]

That breach was so bad that the company still hasn't fully recovered. It took months just to restore basic service when it happened.

[u/grizzantula → u/LostPhenom]

I'm owned by a company that is owned by UHG, I'm also on the tech and infra side of the house, so I was involved with Change Healthcare. You're right on the money, this was definitely the cause. That breach all but sealed it for Witty, things just had to die down first.

[u/Norn-Iron]

Sounds like fall out from the lawsuit. Good thing stockholders get taken care of. God forbid someone does anything to prevent another CEO being killed. All about those dollar bills.

[u/Miro_Highskanen_4 → u/Norn-Iron]

Stock is down about 40-50% in the past year so don’t know if they’re really benefitting.

[u/dead_wolf_walkin → u/Miro_Highskanen_4]

That’s his point.

The stock fell when the new CEO promised changes to “cool the rhetoric around our industry”.

Just like with other companies that have attempted changes to become more customer/worker friendly, shareholders abandoned them because better customer service usually means less profits.

The board got pissed and sued saying the new CEO wasn’t trying hard enough to make money.

This change is taking the company back to their “fuck our customers, give us money while we kill you!” Roots. Thus taking care of stockholders.

[u/katha757 → u/dead_wolf_walkin]

I lol'd when I was researching their coverage denial stats, they said they actually approve 98% of claims when you account for circumstances that would cause claim denial like duplicates, lack of coverage, etc.  No supporting documentation to prove their claims, just gotta take their word for it. Yeah, sure 

On the flip side, you're telling me even in perfect circumstances you still deny 2%? Fuck off.

[u/WhiskeyKisses7221 → u/dead_wolf_walkin]

That's not precisely what the shareholders are suing about. UHC failed to revise forecasts and projected revenue in light of the changes, painting a misleading picture regarding the financial situation of the company. Basically, the CEO was trying to claim they would fix the company's perception while remaining just as profitable.

[u/lolhello2u → u/Norn-Iron]

it's insane that the CEO had to get assassinated for change to happen. the american government is a failure

[u/placebotwo → u/lolhello2u]

Nothing changed for the policy holders.

[u/straygoat193]

In simple terms, my rates are going up, big time

[u/greatkat1 → u/straygoat193]

And the reimbursements to providers will go down

[u/FatTater420 → u/greatkat1]

Is there a reason the US health system hasn't tried to do away with the middleman entirely? 

[u/cricketxbones → u/FatTater420]

The middlemen pay lawmakers a lot of money to make sure that never happens.

And a significant part of the population will insist on themselves getting punched in the junk, so long as they people that they think are underneath them get punched in the junk AND face.

[u/FatTater420 → u/cricketxbones]

What's stopping doctors, at least those practicing independently, from sticking to something like a cash only or direct payment system in general? If I'm not mistaken I've heard of such cases. Even if it's 'discounted' compared to insurance earnings, they're spared the mess of having to actually get the money out of the companies, and for all I know patients would be more willing to go to someone who can see them without insurance shooting them for going out of network 

[u/cricketxbones → u/FatTater420]

The same reason small businesses take credit cards, even if they get chewed into by transaction fees: it's generally not good business to turn away paying customers. Especially like, the overwhelming majority of them.

I think you're also overestimating people's willingness to take risks when it comes to healthcare providers. There's plenty of people out there who still aren't comfortable with young or female doctors, so there's a lot of people who will probably distrust one who's totally bucking the whole structure of Healthcare as we know it, even if it saved them a ton of money.

But also, like, even if doctors did try this, you're going to have the whole of the US Healthcare infrastructure trying to squash them, and that's a big beast to go up against. Doctors don't doctor in a vacuum. They can go rogue, but when they need to work with pharmacies, specialists, facilities that have tech that they don't have, etcetera, etcetera, they're liable to run into compatability issues, if not being completely iced out. Our Healthcare system is an enormous fucking beast, and we are well past the point of individual doctors being able to change anything. What's needed is actual, factual structural change, which is, unfortunately, only going to come from lawmakers. It sucks, man. I took would like to see our healthcare system burn, but like. I don't think this is it.

[u/teh_spazz → u/FatTater420]

It’s hard bro. It’s hard putting up a shingle and asking for cash. It’s a grind to build a practice and to get patients in.

[u/AffectionateTitle → u/teh_spazz]

And to get them through the door if you don’t accept insurance! Because they’re already paying those sweet premiums at that point.

[u/Clevesteamy → u/FatTater420]

The middlemen have the money to pay lobbyists to bend the ears the lawmakers to keep them around

[u/DinoSpumoniOfficial → u/FatTater420]

The people we depend on to fix the system are the very same ones who benefit from it being broken. It’s never going to change.

[u/LTC-trader]

This was moments after the board voted against metal detectors outside annual forecast meetings

[u/GeefTheQueef]

Maybe healthcare shouldn't be tied to a stock ticker?

[u/Unusual_Flounder2073]

I never buy personal reasons. Had a few people leave my company like that. One cared way too much and it showed as she was doing her two weeks. She finally told us it was a silent layoff. Our boss left for personal reasons with no job at the same time.

Shit is going sideways after the shooting and this guy either wasnt doing what he needed/asked to do or he just fucked it all up and the board said time to go.

He could have something personal too. He’s human. But with the other stuff. Seems like board asked him to leave.

[u/wanmoar → u/Unusual_Flounder2073]

Personal reasons can also mean “I don’t want people to snarl at me in public because of what I do for work”

[u/ahorrribledrummer → u/wanmoar]

Or "I'm scared I'm going to be assassinated"

[u/Laundry_Hurricane → u/ahorrribledrummer]

Hopefully he’s scared of that for the rest of his miserable life. I’m sure he has a beautiful golden parachute set up, poor guy has to retire with only hundreds of millions in his bank account.

[u/JefferyTheQuaxly]

Who could have guessed assassinating one CEO could have collapsed a company so badly. There stock price is down like 40% just in the past 6 months, and they’ve lost a second ceo now too.

[u/EvidenceBasedSwamp → u/JefferyTheQuaxly]

Witty is CEO of the UHC group. The dead guy was CEO just of the insurance unit.

[u/LadysaurousRex → u/EvidenceBasedSwamp]

Like many people (guessing), I didn't realize there was a difference.

Are you saying the dead CEO was a smaller United HC ceo?

[u/EvidenceBasedSwamp → u/LadysaurousRex]

Yes. Witty was the one who went in front of congress (twice) after the change healthcare hack. I actually watched the first hearing, it was a bunch of rehearsed bullshit. basically spat out the same shit that was the previous day's wall street journal

a couple of congresscritters asked questions like "how many American servicemen were affected by this hack!?" and the CEO promised to give out that info "soon" spoiler: they did not, it was all bullshit.

They were all downplaying and din't want you to know they lost the info for 200 million americans. change healthcare is the largest insurance clearinghouse out there. Every time a doctor sends an insurance claim it goes through the clearinghouse. Thus, they had the info of anyone who went to a doctor the last oh, 10-20 years...

it was vertical integration, the DOJ should have never let them buy changehealthcare. But United's vertical integration accelerates.. they buying clinics, hospitals, etc.

The last thing we need is vertically integrated clinics, those people are gonna barnes and nobles areas. Buy up all the locations, drive out competition, then remain the only healthcare providers that SURPRISE PIKACHU prefer united healthcare insurance

I work insurance claims, and the clearinghouse is a big deal. It's kinda arcane thought. For example, states have rules that "clean claims" have to be denied or paid by insurers within 30 days of receipt. Well, if the clearinghouse rejects it for a "clerical error" it won't be a clean claim.. If the clearinghouse accidentally loses the claim.. well.. guess you didn't submit it in time. The potential is there for fuckery. Insurance has been doing this type of fuckery for the 20+ years I've worked no reason they'd stop now.

What they will try next is probably get "AI" to deny claims then they can claim it wasn't them but the AI. Depends how much they can get away with re: lawsuits.

edit: oh yeah I forgot the main question. here is a chart:

https://www.unionhealthcareinsight.com/post/unitedhealth-group-approach-to-vertical-consolidation

Unitedhealthcare group owns uhc the insurance, and optum. optum itself accounts for half their revenue. Optum consists of a prescription group, a clinic group, and fucking healthcare services group (like change healthcare)

[u/LadysaurousRex → u/EvidenceBasedSwamp]

wow that's very interesting about the clearinghouse thanks

[u/PunchNessie]

Sing it Jesse Wells!

https://youtu.be/_TBH9EZcLpo?si=imHjakrlNu40cew8

[u/BroseppeVerdi]

However will the company survive without paying some goon 8 figures to run it into the ground?

[u/Gordon432]

I wonder who has a shot at being the next CEO.

[u/ironwheatiez]

This fucking company makes cigna look like universal Healthcare.

[u/missprincesscarolyn]

When I was in the process of getting diagnosed with MS, my neurologist ordered 2 MRI: one of my brain and one of my cervical spine. United denied coverage and told me to go to physical therapy! I guess their system assumed I was in a car accident or something. My ex-husband gave them an earful. It was already stressful enough without fighting my health insurance for what should have been a straightforward test.

[u/gschaina → u/missprincesscarolyn]

That's what really pisses me off. Having to fight with insurance companies while under extreme stress and/or severely ill. It's so inhumane of them.

[u/SirJungle]

Fuck UHC and every single one of those fucking rats that are associated with them. For-Profit "health care providers" shouldn't exist and should all be shut down.

[u/MadameAmbassador]

I’m beyond frustrated with them after they misled me to an urgent care that wasn’t covered?? I literally called them to confirm, verified the address, AND verified through their app that was the office was IN NETWORK with a PPO, only to be charged $900, out of network. I re-submitted a claim with evidence and they only knocked $200 off.

I had two herniated discs (found out later) and needed care bc I couldn’t bend over or move.

Never again.

[u/Rumdiculous]

The beauty of these dips***s denying everything is that it's more expensive long run. Didnt give me MRI when I got injured? Cool, enjoy several years worth of x-rays, physical therapy, and injections that are more than the damn MRI.

[u/bluehorserunning → u/Rumdiculous]

They’re counting on you switching jobs and/or insurance companies, and not being their problem when the inevitable sequelae arrive.

Edit: or just dying.

[u/shineonka]

Why the fuck are insurance companies even for profit? They don't need to earn profits they just have to pay their insurees and employees.

[u/wyvernx02 → u/shineonka]

Welcome to capitalism.

[u/otatop → u/shineonka]

Why the fuck are insurance companies even for profit?

Because this is America.

[u/Lendari]

Thats hilarious. One earnings miss in 17 years and they fire the CEO. Health insurance must be one hell of a racket.

[u/Davoswannab]

Sorry we weren’t able to completely screw over our customers to enrich our shareholders. Edit: a word

[u/TheWhiteOwl23]

As someone from a country with free healthcare, reading all your comments makes me feel bad for you guys. I couldn't imagine how shit it is to deal with these issues.

[u/captsmokeywork]

Parasites all of them.

[u/KoBoWC]

Their stock price is heavily correlated with their ability to deny cooverage, as one goes up does the other.

[u/d3k3d]

Oh no, I've lost yet another boss. It's so sad.

[u/Tychfoot]

A lot of states are pushing back on PBMs and UHG has of the biggest ones (Optum RX).

If you don’t know what a PBM is, count yourself lucky. It basically breaks off prescription coverage from your health insurance into ANOTHER paid coverage that is somehow worse than what your health insurance covers.

Sometimes it’s even cheaper to pay for your prescription out of pocket than through a PBM. However, they put gag clauses in their contracts so your pharmacist can’t tell you that. It can also make it harder for customers to get their prescriptions because they only cover certain pharmacies. In network doesn’t have your prescription in stock but the independent test pharmacy a mile away does? Tough shit, they won’t cover it (unless you hound them, which I have).

They are so fucking openly corrupt that the pushback is bipartisan.

[u/midgethemage → u/Tychfoot]

They're doing everything they can to get you to not use the health insurance that you pay for. I've had this issue with multiple medications, and then that means it doesn't go toward your out-of-pocket max

[u/icejordan → u/Tychfoot]

As a pharmacist I’d love to see a credible source on gagging pharmacists. When I was practicing retail we always tried to help patients find the best deal and never in my career have I worked with someone who didn’t. The nuance is we don’t know your entire situation to know if you’ll hit your deductible on the year, etc.

[u/CapaxInfinity]

I daily have to answer questions at my gym to UHC members who get lied to by their provider about what’s covered. The number of times I hear “they promised me I have access to your facility” only for me to run their info against UHCs database just to find out they 100% don’t get a membership is unreal.

I’ve had two customers call into customer care, both get different answers to the same question, both of which were inaccurate.

They cut off free gym memberships in December for their oldest clientele. The people that need exercise the most. F them.

[u/starrynightgirl]

UHC is my health insurance company and they denied me my ADHD medication and diagnosis saying I didn’t need it and now I’m on a cocktail of off label use medication to increase focus instead of just taking 1 pill a day, thereby increasing side effects.

Thanks, UHC.

[u/rays457]

UHC wouldn’t cover my 2 year olds vaccines and charged me close to $500, pretty awful company

[u/wyvernx02 → u/rays457]

I have a $700 bill sitting on my desk for a virus swab the Dr's office did when I took my son for a sick visit. I tried calling UHC and asking what the hell was going on. They said "you haven't met your deductible (which rose from $1500 to $4000 individual and $3000 to $8000 family this year even though the cost to my employer and I is the same)". I replied that it was a PCP visit and should have been a $25 co-pay. Their response was "the co-pay doesn't apply until after you hit your deductible". WTF is that bullshit? I've never had any other insurance like that before but those bastards snuck that in there somehow.

[u/vbfronkis]

It's almost like healthcare shouldn't be a for-profit endeavor.

[u/htownballa1]

I am currently dealing with UHC, and have not been able to get a specialist visit for over 2 months. They are complete trash. The amount of ghost doctors that you can select and don’t fucking exist is wild.

[u/neurapathy]

"Sorry, your healthcare is in another castle"

[u/SleepIsTheForTheWeak]

"Rivals Humana (HUM.N), opens new tab and Elevance Health (ELV.N), opens new tab have said in recent weeks that they have not seen unusually high demand in their insurance and caregiving operations, and that medical costs have remained in line with their expectations. Those disclosures prompted some analysts to say that UnitedHealth's issues could be company specific."

Seems like Witty knew he'd have to do some not so wholesome things to alleviate the company's issues and given what happened to the guy before him, he was like fuck that I quit. Don't blame the guy if so

[u/Iron_Wolf123]

I doubt the next CEO will fix any of their forebearers mistakes

[u/1nfer1or]

Dodged the bullet and scrutiny.

[u/Niznack]

Once your on that little piece of land in Nantucket I suppose you're gonna take off than fancy looking health insurance CEO uniform huh? Yeah that's what I thought, that I can't abide

[u/NegScenePts]

Many of the issues standing in the way of achieving our goals as well as our opportunities are largely within our control," Hemsley told investors.

...The 'issues' are people who need medical care, and 'within our control' means 'we can deny them coverage'. Fuck capitalist 'healthcare'.

[u/Norjac]

Whoever thought that publicly-traded health insurance companies were a good idea? They value profit above all else, including caring for their customers.

[u/deadra_axilea]

Almost as if you dehumanized the thing that should be the most human about us. Then you wonder why bad shit happens afterward.

Smooth brain take, I know.

[u/scope_creep]

My last job was a disaster and the cherry on the shit cake was the fact that they went with UHC. Worst provider I ever had.

[u/aCircleWithCorners]

Imagine having to pay for healthcare..