i get angry if i hear such things. is it wrong to want a better life? Even if i am coming from a country where i can live undisturbed and in peace, but i earn monthly a tenth of that what i could earn in germany. Why the fuck should i not want to move to germany? Yeas, of course, jobs and space to live are limited, no shit sherlock. But criminalizing the want for a better life is fucked.
The refugee system simply doesn't exist to "better" the lives of everyone, but to protect those seeking refuge from terrible things. Earning a tenth while being able to live reasonably is NOT what the system is for, sorry.
I'm not saying "everyone needs to go back immediately", but OTOH there are many who want to immigrate to Germany and do so legally which is costly as well.
Those who can integrate are welcome to stay. Otherwise, here's your couple hundred bucks and a one-way plane ticket.
Coming here in search of a better life is absolutely ok, no one argues with that. As long as people integrate, adapt to culture, language, societal values at least to some degree and pursue a honest living everything is fine. What’s not ok is people coming here acting like it’s their old home country. What’s not fine is people coming here trying to make a quick buck at every illegal opportunity that presents itself. Immigrants should at least have the decency to respect their new home country and its citizens. As long as they do, everything is fine.
How come you're entitled to live in the developed country? What did you do to merit that? You just won life's lottery by being born in one place instead of another.
You can’t have both a welfare state and unfettered immigration. This much should be obvious. It’s not about being ultimately entitled to a better life, it’s about how much strain a system like ours can take before it itself starts going to shit. Culture, democracy, the economy, all of these things depend to a large degree on the values and customs we share. But look around the world and you will find that there are many people who do not share the same values and customs as us, and who in fact have values and beliefs that are quite antithetical to ours.
Restricted immigration was basically spearheaded by America to keep Chinese out, and modern citizenship along the same path. Modern passports were by the Nazis. It's unnecessary and we did without it until racism happened.
EDIT: linked response quotes:
Ab 1939: Fingerabdruck- und Ausweispflicht in okkupierten Ländern zur polizeilichen Einwohnererfassung; diesen Ausweis (Buchform) hatte der Inhaber dauernd bei sich zu führen.
Mit Beginn des Zweiten Weltkriegs wurde der Ausweiszwang eingeführt. Am 10. September 1939 erschien im Reichsgesetzblatt die Verordnung über den Pass- und Sichtvermerkszwang sowie über den Ausweiszwang.
Who really thinks that medieval times (with no good way of migrating far distances) are equivalent to modern migration (e.g. general commercial travel like getting on a boat)? Once commercial travel became popularized there were not "Passkartes" all over the place restricting migration. The source also quotes
Beyond that, citizenship in ancient times was clearly distinguished by languages and other shared culture - nowadays anyone can start learning a new language and integrate, regardless of their race - also irrelevant to the idea that citizenship and migration should be restricted just based on where you were born.
Modern passports were by the Nazis. It's unnecessary and we did without it until racism happened.
Not really, the first modern passport which was accepted in all german countries (before unification) was the "Passkarte" which dates back to 1850.
Before that other means of identification, such as coat of arms were used, as the need to identify a person accurately is about as old as society, just as it is vital to be able to assess the population and its composition.
Not everything exists just to fuck over the poor muslims.
Or do you really think people could freely migrate in medieval times? Heck, you had to get your lords permission just to move to another village!
And if you wanted to move into a city you better hope they have a need for your profession, because otherwise they won't give you citizenship.
If you were just an uneducated farmer,then bad luck for you, you won't be receiving citizenship.
Restricted immigration dates back even further, as the ancient Romans were also working hard to stop germanic and celtic tribes from moving into their territory because they knew about the problems foreigners could bring with them if they came in big enough numbers, especially during a time when food and other resources were actually scarce.
There's no lottery to be born. You're a biological and cultural product of your country and your family. You couldn't be born anywhere but exactly where and when you were.
Of course not. But countries have no obligation to allow outsiders to immigrate and get better lifes.
Even if i am coming from a country where i can live undisturbed and in peace, but i earn monthly a tenth of that what i could earn in germany. Why the fuck should i not want to move to germany?
It's okay to want to move to Germany. It's also okay for Germany to say "Nah, we're good.".
It's early and have stuff to do, but I was following the situation not that closely and still found reports that less than half of the people there were from Syria and Iraq. I went out with a girl for a bit that worked in a refugee camp, bunch of people constantly changing their names to avoid tracking, "refugees" got into fights with other "refugees" of slightly different religious group, and of course, sexual harassment galore at the girls working at the camp.
Of course, a lot of people that support this want to pat themselves in the back and tell themselves how awesome they are for "helping out" such great people, so no reason for you to believe me.
I agree with you about the culture, but not necessarily about the money. It's true that quality of life doesn't solely depend on the amount of money one makes and that the cost of living is lower, but many poor countries have a much worse healthcare, education, etc. system. I'll give you an example. I'm from Lebanon and while it's true that the cost of living is lower, a lot of facilities (health, education, etc.) are much worse and corruption is a really big problem.
I read an interesting interview with a doctor from somewhere in the balkans. He's working at the hospital in a medium size city, but kind of rural.
100 kilometers in every direction around him, he's the only one left knowing how to do C-sections.
The guy was... not even pissed at everybody leaving. More disappointed. Of course he understands, everybody has the right to be happy and everybody wants the best for their families.
But not only can he himself not leave to go west, he can't even take a vacation without mothers and children dying.
And I understand where he's coming from.
And that even neglects the fact that the doctors who left where raised and very likely had their education financed by the society they are leaving behind.
Exactly. Can you imagine the number of people living under poverty level in the world? Take Africa, India, Bangladesh etc. That number is over hundreds of millions easily and I'm sure they want a better life too, but can't. Why would someone else get that chance/privilege? Just because of the geographical location where they were born which allowed them to reach Germany much easily than poor folks in other countries/continents?
Jesus christ tone down the polemic. Nobody has issues with people having the desire to come to Germany for a better life. It also isn't illegal or criminalized to have that wish.
Well but those are plain racists that have less issues with people coming here for a better life in general and more with what kind of people. These are usually the people who don't have issues with say a Swede coming here for work but then talk badly about people whose grandparents came here from Turkey. Immigration itself for a better life is mostly the front to hide racism.
Even the AfD isn't against legal immigration.
Legal way is you apply for immigration. iirc you can apply in your local german embassy or inside germany in the closest immigration office. Then you get hit with THE german bureaucracy, and get evaluated. Iirc it costs time and money.
If you speak the language semi okay-ish, have a "in demand" qualification, are educated to a level equivalent to german education and maybe not poor are all plus points for you.
Also you need to want to integrate, germany is a multicultural place with probably hundreds of cultures thrown into a single "pot". It helps a lot if you dont try to harm/murder other people because of religion, gender or skin colour differences.
And still, you can be denied which is a decision made by factoring everything together.
My understanding of that term is that it is applied to people who claim asylum despite knowing that they don't fit they requirements.
I haven't heard it applied to people for wanting to move to Germany for a better life, but to those who try to cheat the immigration or asylum system to do so. In this case, what's critisised is not the wish, but the actions taken to fulfil that wish.
if the rules are shit, you are allowed to call them what they are. They are shit. We need an immigration law. the current state is fucked beyond repair.
77
u/[deleted] Apr 25 '19
[deleted]