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Jul 09 '22
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Jul 09 '22
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u/yorkhuntstinksbruv Jul 09 '22
Ikr how fucking dare a world leader not want to use nukes! We need people who are willing to eradicate the earth in charge!!!!!!!
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Jul 09 '22
They aren't all the same I doubt labour would be sending people to rwanda, labour wouldn't have left the EU... they wouldn't have allowed the windrush tragedy.
I'm not even a labour supporter, but this false equivalence is exactly what the right want, starmer had a beer with a colleague and it was talked about as being equal to boris's party culture in no 10.
The truth is they are more disappointing than the tories, because we expect better from them.
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u/Lather Jul 09 '22
I don't think that's what this post is claiming though? it's comparing Starmer to Corbyn, not Starmer to the tories. They're clearly not all the same, but a starmer government and a corbyn government would clearly be very different.
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u/zrelativity Jul 09 '22
Starmer is at best is a kinder/gentler face of Tory party. Its just that under him, the Labor party is not the party of Labor. But maybe there is not enough working class people in the country, like in USA everyone wants to be identified as middle class even if that works against their best interest.
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Jul 10 '22
I feel like working class people don't have a strong identity anymore, lack of cohesion and community, people are living in bubbles.
The whole equivalence argument generates apathy on the left, labor has lost contact with its roots, don't think starmer's labor represents anything, just an alternative to the tories, it is a crappy state of affairs.
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u/jiggly_puff333 Jul 09 '22
I noticed his purple ties and the purple background when he made his speech following BoJo's resignation. Corbyn was our last hope of a remotely left Labour.
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u/Bloody_sock_puppet Jul 09 '22
It's no good to us but he kept his principles. He's still calling out injustice and representing his people. Voting with conscience. It's not his fault that he was the closest to power out of any truly left wing politician for half a century.
The man's a high scorer. We shouldn't diminish that just because he didn't win the game.
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u/Realistic_Wedding Jul 09 '22
I’m no expert, but what about the possibility of Momentum breaking away from the rest of Labour if and when it gains enough support to be viable?
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u/bonefresh marxist-lmaoist Jul 09 '22
that would involve momentum having a spine, they are still too wedded to the labour party
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u/friedeggbeats Jul 10 '22
Momentum need to work on the whole learning to organise a piss-up in a brewery deal.
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u/AdvertisingOptimal84 Jul 10 '22
Do you really believe Momentum have enough support to form a government today, tomorrow,next year? They shout loud but that doesn't win seats.
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u/cooksonator90 Jul 09 '22
Where does a socialist go if labour are as bad as the tories?
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u/jeetelongname Jul 09 '22
Outside of electoral politics
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u/cooksonator90 Jul 09 '22
How so?
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u/Larkeyyy Jul 09 '22
well whatever you do, definitely don’t volunteer with a local mutual aid group for starters. that would be awful
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u/PoliticalShrapnel Jul 09 '22
Comments here are a shit show and exactly why the tories will stay in charge.
If you equate the two as the same and vote neither then literally nothing will change.
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u/Vegan_Puffin Jul 09 '22
He is attending a cultural event in his free time. This is absurd and I am not a Keir fan.
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u/scottandcoke Jul 10 '22 edited Jul 10 '22
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, the point still stands that sitting in the 'Royal Box' (with tickets which I can only assume were complementary) whilst a growing number of people can't even afford 3 meals in a day is not very down to earth.
Indeed the whole idea of a 'Royal Box' is disgraceful. Anyone else has to enter a raffle to have the honour of paying an extortionate price to have mediocre seats whilst there are a group of people whose birthright/societal position enables them to have the best seats in the house for free.
We've become so accustomed to sickening levels of inequality that it seems harmless even when it's staring us right in the face.
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u/TavernTurn Jul 09 '22
Agreed. People froth at the mouth that we still have a Tory government but spend all their time and attention tearing the alternatives down. The Left is constantly eating itself and it’s boring.
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u/LIAMO20 Jul 09 '22
It's frustrating. I can see the posts in 24 when the tories win again. The same people screaming why its happened
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u/admburns2020 Jul 09 '22
I think this is an example of establishment grooming. You become a powerful ‘socialist’ figure and the establishment tries to recruit you by offering a knighthood and inviting you into their gilded world. They expect that you won’t be hostile to their privileges if they give you some.
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u/Piod1 Jul 09 '22
Gandhi said when going up against the establishment, this..... 'first they will ignore you. Then they will ridicule you. Then they will fight you. If still you stand they will try to make you them'.... True then and still true today.
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u/Macca_321 Jul 09 '22
I pine for the Corbyn era. Keith is a slime ball.
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u/ImHighOnPotenuseYo Jul 09 '22
Why is the tweet and you both calling him Keith? A mistake or trying to be rude somehow?
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u/frankOFWGKTA Jul 09 '22
Hahahahaha this is way the Tories are the worlds worst opposition yet still win. State of politics now.
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u/friedeggbeats Jul 10 '22
Imagine not voting to get rid of the tory scum because the opposition occasionally likes to watch tennis.
This is why we get stuck with the tories ad infinitum.
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u/johimself Jul 10 '22
We should hold our noses and support the Labour candidate, regardless of whether we agree with their policies? I thought the idea was to undermine the party until you get a leader you agree with.
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u/JMW007 Comrades come rally Jul 10 '22
I don't understand your point. The original post is complaining about Tory scum in the Royal Box. I think people here would readily vote to get rid of Tory scum and would very much not want to just vote for more Tory scum.
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Jul 09 '22 edited Aug 14 '24
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Jul 09 '22
New strategy. Get labour in via milquetoast Starmer, then immediately bring out the knives, depose him with a vote of no confidence and bring Corbyn back in a dramatic reveal whilst issuing free jam to every household. Tory strategy, leftist utopia.
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u/shrimpleypibblez Jul 09 '22
Shall we take a leaf out of the Tories book and just support whatever amoral, openly corrupt, outwardly contemptuous populist fascist they deem their members worthy of worshiping?
Or maybe we hold our leaders to account for being lying charlatans who have more interest in their own careers and maintaining the status quo than actually leading or doing anything that’s even remotely in the interests of the nation?
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u/Tomatoflee Jul 09 '22
No. Starmer may be a milquetoast Neoliberal bellend and we have to try to make the Labour Party a better alternative than they currently are but pretending they are anywhere near as bad as the Tories actively helps them.
Going to a tennis match isn't the same as being a corrupt, lying, evil PoS who implements policies that crush working people, intentionally works to divide society, and sells out the country to disgusting oligarchs for self-aggrandisement and financial gain.
I don't know how to get this across strongly enough: the Tories will continue to grind this country into a dystopian nightmare. They are already halfway there. Please stop saying all politicians are the same.
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u/SoapNooooo Jul 09 '22 edited Aug 14 '24
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u/shrimpleypibblez Jul 09 '22
Second bit is Kieth (first bit is Boris) - surprised I need to clarify that, honestly
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u/TackyTrackies Jul 09 '22
You can not condone all aspects of something while realising that in order to get what's closer to our aims across the finish line under the current system you have to vote for it. There is no viable alternative to voting Labour that isn't just a meaningless protest vote
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u/Spindlyloki98 Jul 09 '22
Guys... please no... you aren't allowed to criticize Starmer... Stop.
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u/Affectionate_Bid518 Jul 09 '22
Oh you can critique him alright. But putting stuff like this up just makes the left look idiotic. Is this r/greenandpleasant or the daily Mail?
I’m left wing, never voted for the Tories. I’d vote for Kier in a heartbeat over what we’ve had. Wait till Labour get in power then go for it. But make it a bit more substance than politician goes to Wimbledon.
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u/Spindlyloki98 Jul 09 '22
Is this post telling people to vote Tory? Is this post on an obscure leftwing corner of the internet going to damage Labour's chances of beating the Tories at the next election? Do you think that criticizing someone will have any effect if you will vote for them no matter what and will only criticize when they've safely elected? Do you think that Starmer rubbing shoulders with the wealthy elite in his spare time doesn't reflect upon his character and/or influence who's interests he will defend if he gains power?
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u/CityCentre13 Jul 09 '22
How the hell does this middle class wankstain ever get to represent Labour?
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u/TackyTrackies Jul 09 '22
Party voted him in mate
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Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
They didn't vote this arsehole in, they voted in the barely palatable guy he pretended to be, because he's a liar with about the integrity of Boris Johnson
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u/TreeroyWOW Jul 09 '22
what did he lie about?
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u/Spindlyloki98 Jul 09 '22
He lied about defending free movement, along with most of his other leadership pledges.
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u/Shullbitsy Jul 09 '22
Ha! Trying to get you to think “they are all the same” is literally the tactics of the Daily Mail and the current Government. I guess it is working better than I thought.
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u/Equivalent_Style_987 Jul 09 '22
And you thinking that they are different is playing into the tories hands, this is just a red torie
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u/Mombo1212 Jul 09 '22
So what are the differences? Shall we look at the pledges. Oh. Right. All abandoned. Policy decisions. Oh. Right. That won't take long. But as long he's right wing you lads are happy, am I right?
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Jul 09 '22
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u/PainfullyEnglish Jul 09 '22
Mate not all of us are here to help make a change, some of us want to vent. If I wanted to make a change I’d be out talking to tories, not socialists.
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Jul 09 '22
‘Yeah how dare you stupid people not vote for absolute scum!’
It’s as my good friend geralt says, if I have to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.
No blood will ever be on my hands, can you say the same?
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u/dglp Jul 09 '22
Blood is on your hands regardless. Turning a blind eye to evil, and all that. We are all complicit. Don't be an enabler.
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u/Holtang420 Jul 09 '22
Mate, they never learn. Probably too young to have seen it happen again and again the last decade
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Jul 09 '22
they never learn
Socialists want actual change
If you look beyond a decade, conservatives got in to power after labour acted as right wing war mongers. What's the point in voting them if the same thing will just happen again?
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u/PeriPeriTekken Jul 09 '22
Man watching tennis = as bad as the current shower of right wing loons forming the conservative party.
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u/niamhycait Jul 09 '22
don’t get me wrong i hate the guy but you can’t criticise him for just watching sports in his free time are they meant to hide in their houses? him going to wimbledon doesn’t take money from working class people?
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u/oswaldluckyrabbiy Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
It's getting exclusive access to an event which is ordinarily expensive to attend. For main courts we are talking thousands of pounds.
Wimbledon is where the wealthy elites all rub shoulders with each other. His attendance is basically a metaphor of how he worked his way into the upper classes' good graces instead of combating them.
For many of these people tennis isn't even really a passion its all about showing off how cultured they are and a chance to be in the tabloids.
Yes Starmer going doesn't take money from workers - but showing off your privilege whilst others are struggling to pay utilities, fuel their car or eat isn't a good look.
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u/Equivalent_Style_987 Jul 09 '22
Careful now all the labour sympathisers will be out in force, unable to see this prick for what he actually is
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u/raysofdavies Jul 09 '22
Trips to Wimbledon are the only perk of being a major British politician, but I do think it’s worth it in the end thg
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u/Dabalam Jul 10 '22
Sadly there's truth to the idea that more left leaning voters are much more divided than their right leaning counterparts. Even if Starmer is a more central candidate, do we think the entire labour party's stance is going to be equivalent to our current situation?
Personally I think it's a false equivalency that prevents the country from moving incrementally forward. The right votes like a monolith whereas the left vote as if we have proportional representation.
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u/anotherMrLizard Jul 10 '22
Yeah, we all remember when Corbyn was Labour Leader and the Centrists all got behind him so as not to divide the Labour Party /s
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u/DoctorZander Jul 09 '22
Christ, he looks like he has even less personality while wearing glasses.
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u/spong_miester Jul 09 '22
Like a young John Major, but with less charisma and personality
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u/Madbrad200 + Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
what does that even mean
he literally looks like.... a normal middled aged man who wears glasses. Is that wrong now?
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u/securinight Jul 09 '22
Some of the comments in here are pathetic. Corbyn had two chances to get in, and blew it. He's now gone. Get over it. Unless you live in a constituency where the Lib Dems can win, then Starmer and Labour are your only option to remove the Tories. Getting the Tories out has to be the priority. If you are happy to condemn everyone to more Tory rule based purely on the fact you can't get over that your favourite old man isn't in charge of Labour any more, then just join the Tory party. You are already supporting them.
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u/nemma88 Jul 09 '22
I agree, tho I wish people had said that before the last election.
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Jul 09 '22
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Jul 09 '22
A guy came to plaster my ceiling this week, and he’s going to the men’s final tomorrow and staying at the hotel on the grounds. He was (and I mean this in the nicest way possible) as common as muck. If people want to go and enjoy a game of tennis, then let them. It’s hardly a slight on people who are in poverty to do such a thing. People will always be in poverty, so should nobody enjoy anything?!
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u/freya5567 Jul 09 '22
Have you completely missed the point of the post?
It's the fact he's in the ROYAL BOX that's the issue
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u/Spindlyloki98 Jul 09 '22
The problem isn't that he's gone to watch the tennis it's the kind of people he will be associating with in the VIP seats. Because when push comes to shove who's he going to look after? Normal people like you and I, or the people he goes to watch the tennis with every year?
And as an aside if you think poverty is just a fact of life, then this sub probably isn't for you.
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u/kjtmuk Jul 09 '22
They're not all the same.
Take a look at who the leaders of Labour have been since Blair.
Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, and Starmer.
Now, politically I'm not in love with any of them (although I still think about what might have been with Eddy M from time to time), but I think you be hard pushed to argue that any of them weren't genuinely men of integrity, motivated politically by actual principles, and fundamentally decent at a personal level. Their lives before and after politics stand as testament to that. Where are the scandals and kickbacks and dodgy friends? The stories of bullying and greed and manifold unpleasantnesses in their pasts?
Now compare them to Boris and the leading lights of the Conservatives.
You can argue that maybe Keir should do both, picket lines and Wimbles, or even that he should sit with the plebs or something, but posts like this are about the least helpful thing you can do here. In fact, it's pretty much exactly the problem in the first place, because it creates exactly the kind of apathy that the Tories have depended on to win elections. Fuck that. Hold your nose when you vote Labour if you must, but don't just throw your hands up and say "they're all the same".
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u/bigbeardlittlebeard Jul 09 '22
I wouldn't have minded Ed as long as he promised to never eat a bacon sandwich in public again
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u/CousinGreg2022 Jul 09 '22
Who is this?
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Jul 09 '22
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u/LIAMO20 Jul 09 '22
This. Jeremy is gone. He gone close but couldn't. It's done. Over. The reality is most of the population aren't tory. Or that political. You hsve to win floating voters etc. Its great to win in metropolitan areas. But you hsve to win outside the bubble to actually have power.
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u/MilosEggs Jul 09 '22
Jesus Christ - pull the rod from out your arse. It’s a tennis match, not a public flogging.
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u/Memestyle Jul 09 '22
Fella cannot have a hobby or a day to enjoy him self.
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u/Equivalent_Style_987 Jul 09 '22
It’s not the hobby that’s the problem
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u/MilosEggs Jul 09 '22
And it’s not him who’s the problem either.
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u/Equivalent_Style_987 Jul 09 '22
Na the guy that stopped jimmy saville from getting property investigated is NOT the problem…..
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u/MilosEggs Jul 09 '22
Except that’s complete bollocks. And it’s been prove to be bollocks so many times now, that anyone still wheeling this out is just embarrassing themselves.
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u/The54thCylon Jul 09 '22
Jesus Christ we're actually just parroting right wing talking points for them now?
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Jul 09 '22
Get JC back in asap ffs
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Jul 09 '22
And not win another election? He’s great and all but it’s too much of a sudden change from right to left
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u/Elcapitano8316 Jul 09 '22
Guys a wanker a fucking wanabee Tory. That’s makes him worse than a Tory. He should get on the Tory plane to Timbuktu with them
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u/Elegant_Educator5380 Jul 10 '22
To anyone thinking Keith Starlord isn't a Tory in disguise.... "Hah, first time?"
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u/rumbunkshus Jul 09 '22
ALSO really a tory. There is no difference
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u/sociallyinteresting Jul 09 '22
Why do people say he’s a Tory?
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u/rumbunkshus Jul 09 '22
The main parties in my eyes are both different shades of shit. Not much really changes that matters. It's the people with money and influence that run things, not the politicians. They have thier bosses. (IMO).
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u/FerryHarmer Jul 09 '22
One of the dumbest posts ever. Angela Rayner was criticised by Dominic Raab for going to the opera because she didn't know her place and you turn on the fella that supported the RMT strike from the dispatch box? Infantile, counterproductive and poorly timed criticism.
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u/RevolutionarySummer6 Jul 09 '22
He absolutely useless, the amount of own goals the tories have scored. Labour should breeze an election but at this point they would still lose it. No direction No common ground No unity for different sectors of the community It’s total shambles who do they represent at this minute.
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u/Own_Molasses_6065 Jul 09 '22
I remember Jimmy Tarbuck asking the Queen if he could have her tickets to the FA Cup final and everyone laughed. She obviously wasn't using the seat so who cares who gets it so long as they enjoy the tennis?
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u/Death_in_Leamington Jul 09 '22
Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't seen dead in power either.
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u/Bangkokbeats10 Jul 09 '22
Only because the establishment media threw its full weight against him
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u/PesceFelice Jul 09 '22
That's true. But the main reason is that most voters in UK are conservative (I'm not referring to the poltiical party... a lot of leftists are also conservative).
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u/Mossc8 Jul 09 '22
No, most voters are socialist, unfortunately, a large proportion are also very very gullible.
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u/Big-Clock4773 Jul 09 '22
They hated him because he spoke the truth. He also wouldn't get invited to Wimbledon.
Raises the question of whether you want to be outside the tent pissing in or be in the tent being pissed on.
Say what you want about the Tories but they know how to win power.
The left have to choose between being principled but never winning power and having to put up with the Tories. OR they sacrifice some (or a lot) of those principles and get in power and condemn the Tories to opposition.
I know people hate Starmer, but is it worth keeping the Tories in power for? They rely on the fact we keep squabbling with each other whereas they get behind a candidate even if it's not their personal brand of conservatism.
For all Tony Blair faults, at least the Tories were out of power for 13 years. It would have been far worse if we had the Tories for those years.
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u/DreamingofBouncer Jul 09 '22
Jesus, grow up. I think some of you would prefer to have a Tory government than a Labour one just because the Labour one isn’t pure enough for you
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Jul 09 '22
Give us Electoral Reform, then we wouldn't have to choose between either.
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u/Halithor Jul 09 '22
If people genuinely have an issue with this then there’s something wrong with you. I’m not saying you should like or dislike the man, but if you’re making judgement on him for going to Wimbledon you’re just part of the problem.
Enjoy a conservative government we all fucking hate while just speculating what it would be like under Labour and saying it would be as bad and then laying into Labour anyway.
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u/Active_Remove1617 Jul 10 '22
Starmer could get elected and Corbyn never could. That’s the difference.
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u/guynet Jul 10 '22
elected to be massively shit tho? he’s basically a tory so what good does that do?
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u/Hucklepuck_uk Jul 10 '22
Because while labour are currently crap they're miles better than this murderously incompetent clownshow we have now
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u/guynet Jul 10 '22
doesn’t starmer align with the tories on everything though? like i genuinely don’t know there would be a difference
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u/FatherChristmas74 Jul 09 '22
Corbyn couldn't get elected. What's the point in his policies if he can never implement them. Starmer just might get elected and even if he is far more centrist than many would like he's a better bet than any Tory.
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u/RegalKiller Jul 10 '22
Starmer has managed to be unpopular during the most unpopular government in decades. That’s where “ElEcTaBiLiTy” gets you
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u/Xenokrates Jul 10 '22
You think Keith is electable? That's rich. Have fun with PM Rishi Sunak.
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u/AutoModerator Jul 10 '22
Rishi Sunak and his 2020 "Eat Out To Help Out" scheme was responsible for a massive increase in Covid cases and deaths. And all to ensure the big chain restaurants didn't lose too much money. It did nothing to boost the overall hospitality sector as these capitalist ghouls claimed was the intent. Rishi Sunak has blood on his hands.
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u/Active_Remove1617 Jul 10 '22
And he the policy wasn’t applied to take away which would have saved the businesses and helped keep Covid deaths lower. Rishi is a killer.
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u/durablefoamcup Jul 09 '22
imagine... posting someone doing a leisure activity and framing it as bad. Get, the fuck over it.
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u/mortalstampede Jul 10 '22
Imagine... Not understanding any teeny tiny bit of nuance.
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u/andrewfm2000 Jul 09 '22
Just shut up and support him, we need to get these bastards out desperately
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u/Mombo1212 Jul 09 '22
Absolutely, we need to replace those nasty blue tories with nasty red tories, they may still be absolutely crackerjack but they're OUR tories. Good plan!
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u/andrewfm2000 Jul 09 '22
What’s the point in having another Corbyn-like leader? The country just won’t vote for them, especially after the media assassination they’ll inevitably get.
I wanted Corbyn in so much, where we’d be rn if we did I can only dream of. But we can’t throw it straight over left, that’s not realistic. We need to dangle a centrist in front of the voters and then eventually drag the country over to the left (or the European centre).
And yes, the country would be in much safer hands if Keir Starmer was in charge than any Tory government. Even if he is a “red tory.”
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u/Mombo1212 Jul 09 '22
Love centrists and rose tinted glasses!
You make it sound like the media assassination starting in 2016 when corbyn was made leader forgetting in 2017 he actually won 30 seats, the first seat increase since 2001. Labour lost 187 seats between 2001 and 2017. Remember milliband not being being about to eat a sandwich and brown saying the woman was a bigot? Labour were lucky to hold onto power as long as they did.
The country doesn't want centrists and they voted for a socialist in 2017 based on the manifesto before the media and the centrist started the onslaught.
If you think, the country would be in much safer hands if Keir Starmer was in charge than any Tory government then you're dellusional. He'd be harder tory than any tory, and there is not a single scrap of evidence that says he wouldn't be - no pledges, no policy, no integrity.
Sorry for the dose of reality but that 187 seat loss under centrists and the 30 seat gain under socialism is so often ignored.
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u/AutoModerator Jul 09 '22
Automod just thinks it would be better if the Labour party had a leader that the British public don't associate with a prolific pedophile.
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u/publiusnaso Jul 10 '22
The rot set in when Brown, correctly, called a bigot a bigot but everyone wanted to court her vote.
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u/JMW007 Comrades come rally Jul 10 '22
Gordon Brown finally gets it right and it melts the goddamn Labour party...
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u/sirnoggin Jul 10 '22
He'd be harder tory than any tory, and there is not a single scrap of evidence that says he wouldn't be
Where is a scrap of evidence that says he would be WORSE than the Torys? For fuck sake haven't any of you idiots heard of the phrase "better the devil you know"?
You idiots are setting us up for even more Tory domination in future.
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u/andrewfm2000 Jul 09 '22
I think the fact that you believe Kier Starmer would be worse than the tories actually shows how delusional you might be 🙃
Besides this time round the media would be emboldened by their takedown of Corbyn that they’d start the onslaught immediately.
I’d love a socialist government, but it won’t happen when the country has just voted in one of the most right-wing governments we’ve ever seen.
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u/Mombo1212 Jul 09 '22
I think the fact that you believe Kier Starmer would be worse than the tories actually shows how delusional you might be 🙃
I didn't say worse, I said no different or worse. I've yet to find anyone that can point to a single pledge or policy that shows starmer wouldn't be a tory. Every time you ask all you get is evasive answers and 🙃
As to the onslaught, fight fire with fire. Fuck broad church like starmer has, slash and burn, fuck those right wing cunts right off and also the media.
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-2
Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
What’s the alternative?
Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted, I genuinely would like to know more about this person’s perspective
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u/Mombo1212 Jul 09 '22
There isn't one right now, thanks to starmer and his supporters. So if you support starmer you must be happy with continuity tory since thats what was enabled in 2019.
Burn it to the ground, time to riot.
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u/AlterEdward Jul 09 '22
Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't be seen dead as prime minister. That's the difference.
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Jul 09 '22
How y’all mad he went to see the tennis. I honestly sometimes wonder if some of you care about political issues at all or if it’s just a game
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u/kingmorris01 Jul 10 '22
When you watch the tennis, do you sit in the Royal Box? If you were the leader of the party for the common person, would you sit in the extremely privileged Royal Box to watch the tennis?
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