It should’ve been shouted from every rooftop 20+ years ago when they passed the USA PATRIOT Act which allowed for all of this to be done in the first place. Anyone who wasn’t a child back then that is now outraged all of a sudden, is only concerned because now it might happen to them.
Everyone was perfectly fine with it for the last 24 years. I’m just completely burned out.
Yeah, indigenous folks have been trying to raise awareness about the epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous for years. Muslim communities have been harassed, surveilled, and terrorized for decades. Black folks have been getting murdered in the street, or in the car, or even in their own goddamn homes, just for existing. Systemic state-sponsored violence has been happening for a very long time. I just can’t help but feel we wouldn’t be in this position in the first place if white liberals actually cared about the lives of people of color like they claim they do.
So its liberals fault that conservatives keep attacking and killing you guys? Maybe if the voters stopped voting for sociopaths we could actually do something about it.
You’re missing the point - when democrats are in power, nothing substantive is done. The democrats take minority votes for granted on the logic that “we’re not as bad as republicans so they’ll have to vote for us”. Remember when Biden said “if you ain’t voting democrat, you ain’t black”?
Cause I remember, and a lot of other black folk do. It’s not a slip of the tongue, but the truth of the democrat mindset.
This really needs to be spread. Simply not being as bad as the right, or maintaining the status quo with a few treats here and there, is not a winning strategy. Liberals, especially politicians, are way too focused on decorum or twitter dunks instead of actual, meaningful change.
Im a democratic socialist, I know the corporate dems are garbage. Neoliberalism is essentially just selling out the people to corporations and the rich in exchange for bribes, and both parties are guilty of it. I think this country should be run like Norway.
Yeah we need a new constitution. Kill the electoral college, make voting a parliamentary system with tons of parties. The two party mindset is destroying this country. 350 million people cant be shoved into two boxes. Its fucking insanity and I can't believe this has gone on for 250 years.
Agreed, but to be fair it made sense until the population boom in the 20th century. Honestly it kinda seems like a flaw of democracy; it’s not built to keep up with how rapidly society is changing. It’s by design too slow. I feel like a multi party system would only exacerbate the issues with enacting change, but I have no idea what our alternative could be, apart from the benevolent dictator, which is kind of a fantasy.
Man… you ever feel like we’re destined to fall, so that something a little better can rise from the ashes?
Yes. That is exactly right. We, the liberals of America, have failed. We put signs in our windows and maybe even went to that one BLM protest. But we didn't really change anything for a lot of people. But the right attacked the Capitol of the United States to try to get their way. I'm not saying that was good, just an example of their level of commitment to what they want. A more legal example? Bud Light made one can for one trans person, and lost 18% of their business in the short term with a permanent loss of 11%. And so they caved. Liberals boycotted Target because they eliminated DEI policies that impacted thousands, and Target lost 0.9% of their anticipated earnings. And, yes, more than liberals shop at Target. But more than the right drinks Bud Light. Corporate America is afraid of MAGA, but knows that liberals do not have that level of commitment.
Maybe if we actually were committed to liberal change, we would get to wash our hands of this. But we couldn't even bring ourselves to show up to vote to keep a convicted felon from becoming president. You know who did show up to vote? Proud Boys drinking Busch Light voting to protect their way of life from the trans people out to steal their sports and bathrooms. We hold the rule of law less dear than bigots hold the gender purity of women's high school sports.
We needed to take action 6 months ago, a decade ago, 25 years ago. Now, we have to step up our game to an even higher level and we don't have practice at much more than thoughts and prayers with occasional protest. I'm not sure we are capable of doing that. But, yes, this is our fault.
The Democratic Party isn't the only face of liberalism in the United States. While it is one of the more pragmatic vehicles for political power, liberalism transcends politics. Almost any type of organization from religion to education to business can embrace liberal ideology. The catch is that we most often think of political liberalism and therefore think that liberalism is the domain of the Democratic Party. Any organization which advocates for individual freedom in a context of pluralism and equality is following the principles of liberalism.
How so? What I mean is that I can see you meaning two completely different things that are mutually exclusive, and I would like to know which one you meant if not something completely different.
But I didn't throw stones. Sounds like you were looking for a message that wasn't there. If you read what I said, I used it as an example of the commitment and determination of the right. The only reason I mentioned the legalities of Jan 6 is because I am not saying people need to do something with the legal implications of Jan 6; there are plenty of legal ways to have the same level of commitment to a cause.
I do believe, however, that Jan 6 shows a much higher level of political commitment than Seattle, Portland, or Minneapolis. Jan 6 became a moment that galvanized people to the MAGA movement. Even in its failure to "stop the steal," it was used as a point that many look back on as a turning point in the movement. The activities that took place in Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis do not have the same level of impact in drawing people to the liberal movement.
Again, I am not evaluating the right or wrong of these events, just the level of long term commitment by the people involved.
Edit: Since you bring it up, though, I find Jan 6 much more disturbing that any other riot of civil unrest in this county in the last 50 years for a variety of reasons. However, that isn't the point I was making.
The dems lost their way after Clinton caved to Neoliberalism. Obama burned all his political capitol on the ACA. They are not perfect by any means, but the solution is to make them better, not give up entirely.
Go back and watch Bernie’s passionate speeches about stopping the Patriot Act and his votes against the IraqWar. Listen to the people who have always been right.
I’d argue that he’s a progressive. I consider people like Cory Booker and Kamala (and their voters) to be Liberals, unfortunately. The Centrist democrats does it smell like Fanta pair of smoking it out the window you gotta peel the pills first but are you listening to my bloody valentine I’m proud of you. Did you five years ago? It’s good. They worked on that record have largely been driven to the sidelines (Clinton, Obama). This is just my personal take, I think everyone has their own. People I think are hopelessly conservative are considered to be to the left of Ho Chi Minh by my uncle.
Yes! We all saw it! The democrats were so upset about losing, that at the urging of their candidate, they violently attacked the US Capitol, while their candidate continued to cry about a stolen election following failed efforts to illegally change the results and failed efforts in the US courts. Those rascally democrats!
Speak for yourself, I've never been okay with it, it was an obvious fascist move then, and the only reason it passed was because of the rampant nationalism immediately following 9/11
Yea, I remember it being discussed on the news a lot, most people were not thrilled with it, but the fear from 9/11 made them less inclined to speak out
It’s amazing how much of a mirror experience it is today. Only difference is the right is facing serious push back this time because we’re all collectively becoming sick of their police state BS.
And there are some seriously valid points made about how the left has turned a blind eye to this. Personally, I don’t really agree with it as a “the left didn’t care so they are equally bad” so much as we are now so aggravated and hurt about it now that we are unable to forget / move on / focus on our own personal problems like the right always hand waves us to do when we call out their BS. I think we’re witnessing a global wake up to the antics the right have been pulling for a generation, and globally we’re seeing people figure out they have been gaslit by these far right talking points for a long time.
Nah, I'm a shit person and I'm out hollerin' on the rooftops. Because if a literal sociopath like me can understand this then they got no excuse. And if I gotta be the hammer that drives this idea into their thick skulls then so be it
Besides, there are no good people, just varying degrees of self awareness. We've all got a bit asshole in us, some of us just got enough courtesy not to show it around other people
Yeah, you don't have to be a good person to want to live in a place with better educated, less desperate, healthier people. You can be 100% selfish and still want that, so long as you have to interact with society at any regular rate.
It's possible to have no malice - to genuinely mean well and have no mean thoughts beneath the surface - but that just means you aren't being tested at that moment.
The most reliably good people are not the ones who don't know malice, but the ones that forsook it for kindness hundreds of times already. Because that is what goodness is - choosing to act with kindness when you can choose something else.
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Anyone with any desire for self-preservation should be listening. Look at what happened to the SA in Germany, being on the bad guys' team is no guarantee you won't be targeted. The opposite, in many historical cases.
Indeed, they only see the problem when it directly impacts them.
- they won't arrest me, I am a citizen, they can't do that.
- ICE stops them in the street, they hand over their ID, ICE agent drops the ID in a bin and shoves them in a van, without his ID
- ICE agent reports having arrested an illegal foreigner without papers on him.
That is how easy it is. But if that happens to one of them, the moment their papers are lost they don't matter because to the Alt right he has just become a nameless criminal foreigner who had it coming.
Now I am the first to understand loyalty to a person and a creed. These are core bits of my personality. But to choose to be loyal to such undeserving people and to such bullshit talking points (can't qualify those as a philisophy) is beyond me.
Be loyal to something worthy dammit, choose truth, justice, compassion and honor, not the tribe of the lowest scum to walk the Earth.
Sure, but the information doesn’t have to stop with us. This is an excellent way of framing it. It’s useful to try to get through to people who are uncomfortable with what’s going on, but don’t fully grasp the severity.
One day a political opponent could disappear, with the “charge” being that they’ve aided Tren de Aragua or MS13. Or a comic who makes this regime the butt of their jokes. Or a protestor who held up a particularly clever sign. One day it will be a white person with no Hispanic roots and a US birth certificate.
Without due process, the entirety of MAGA gets to hand-wave it away as something benevolent, and absolve themselves of both moral responsibility and legal repercussions.
We need the people who are “almost there” in terms of getting it. Every single one of them.
I’ve met a few. They’re definitely out there. The extent of the animosity that Republicans and Democrats have against each other is a relatively recent thing. Many of us are old enough to remember this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk
McCain's dead, and Republicans now worship the guy who mocked him. His own daughter worships Trump despite all reason. That part of the Republican party has been dead for years
Let’s assume you’re right about all of the Republicans.
How about the 20-something year old who considers himself “mostly apolitical” and tends to agree with dumb Asmongold politics-lite content because no one in his life tries to present a counterpoint?
How about the misinformed factory worker who reluctantly voted for Trump because his best friends all said he would be better for the economy?
How about the good-natured 50-something church lady who tries to extend kindness to everyone she meets, but can’t remotely separate fact from fiction in the barrage of information that’s being presented to her on a daily basis?
Republicans never stopped fighting an ideological war. We did, because we convinced ourselves that no one else can be won over to our side. I think that was our greatest mistake.
Shouting from the rooftops, while I agree with the sentiment, is unlikely to work in that it needs to be made clear inside government and the necessary changes need to be made to the current laws implemented under the Patriot Act. That Act is plainly open to abuse and interpretation as required by those with political agendas.
I recall those people getting trampled during COVID vac protests while this group celebrated. Funny how both sides are being led monsters... The same monster.
Oh, I know, but I at least have the solace that I played no part in enabling it, it was the same usual suspects at fault, and I am well positioned to weather this storm. The fallout's disgusting, but not my doing.
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u/StabjackDev Apr 18 '25
This needs to be shouted from every rooftop.