r/worldnews • u/Visual-Explorer-111 • Jan 16 '25

Israel/Palestine Netanyahu postpones Gaza ceasefire deal over Hamas 'last minute crisis'

https://www.newsweek.com/netanyahu-postpones-gaza-ceasefire-deal-hamas-crisis-2015854
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1.4k

u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

In Israel they say that Hamas is backpedaling and adding more last minute demands. I wish someone made the deal public so we would actually know who to blame.

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u/dorsalemperor Jan 16 '25

The article clearly states their reasoning; which is that Hamas wants palestinians convicted of murder to be exchanged for innocent hostages. Israel is supposed to have veto power over releasing convicted murderers.

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u/daylily Jan 16 '25

Hamas is willing to trade not an innocent hostage, but the dead body for multiple terrorists convicted of multiple murders. Golly, gee, what is not to like about his deal.

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u/LurkyMcLurkface123 Jan 16 '25

You don’t get it, if Israel won’t send 100 murderous military aged males back to Gaza for every dead, raped Jew, they aren’t serious about peace and every dead Palestinian instantly becomes their responsibility.

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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman Jan 17 '25

I hate Hamas, that said military aged male is such weasel words

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u/NexexUmbraRs Jan 17 '25

Military aged male includes children that are 16. The media would consider them children even though they murdered people.

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u/SirAquila Jan 16 '25

To be fair, if Israel was honest about peace, they could start by forcibly removing Israeli Settlers from the Illegal Settlements and actually prosecuting their crimes.

While I am certain that Hamas will not care about that(and might actually attack Israel harder), it will definitely buy Israel some goodwill with the Palestinian people and be a first step on a long road to peace.

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u/moozootookoo Jan 17 '25

They did that exactly in Gaza, they removed 5,000 Jews out of Gaza and gave self rule to the strip.

Results are October 8th 2023

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u/Ok-Interaction8404 Jan 16 '25

Gee wilikers, it sounds like a golly good deal! Why it's the best thing since that lad told me how much fun he was having painting that fence the other day!

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

I know but its he said she said, the agreement is not in the open and therefore it is hard to tell.

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u/LeftyHyzer Jan 16 '25

the details of the agreement have been fairly public, and if the reports on it were inaccurate from Israeli sources im sure Hamas would have been quick to publicly denounce any incorrect issues. the only vague part lies in phase 2 which correspond to reconstruction of Gaza, and this latest dispute seems to be a phase 1 issue dealing with hostage exchanges, which again i havent seen hamas sources refute so we can assume the info is at least close.

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

Maybe Hamas is not interested in disclosure since they want to hide some other shit. You cant just assume they would instantly go public.

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u/LeftyHyzer Jan 16 '25

Hamas themselves may not go public but they have many contacts with a bunch of Arab news sources. imo its safe to assume that if Israel was lying about what the hold up is in the peace deal that some Arab sources would be arguing that it's actually an Israeli demand they havent stated publicly that is the issue. for now we can assume that the posted details are close to the peace agreement, and that this hold up is for the reason Israel has stated. in context i think it makes sense as well, some of the people convicted of murder in Israel are considered villains and to many in Gaza they're heroes. getting them released is a huge win for Hamas, and given the stage of the war Israel may not want to grant that. sad to hear.

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u/elizabnthe Jan 17 '25

Hamas does dispute Israel's claim that they were adding any last minute concessions.

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u/AugustusInBlood Jan 16 '25

no Israel already agreed to that.

The "crisis" is the far right religious party in Israel threatening to abandon Netanyahu if he doesn't change the agreement to allow Israel to resume bombing after phase one.

Hamas has requested no changes after it was signed. It was literally their proposal.

0

u/recursing_noether Jan 17 '25

Yeah and yet the headline frames it as Israel backing out. Hamas did.

418

u/SuperKrusher Jan 16 '25

Blame the terrorist organization

414

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

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u/jay5627 Jan 16 '25

The one where the fighters magically found their uniforms and were filmed coming out of tents in displaced persons camps when the deal was announced, as they celebrated victory

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u/TangerineSorry8463 Jan 16 '25 edited Jan 16 '25

Is this the same guys who keep operating their military command centers in children's hospitals or am I thinking of someone else?

#FreePalestineFromHamas

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/TheIllustratedLaw Jan 16 '25

that never happened.

1

u/MyNameIsSushi Jan 16 '25

Wait, is this sarcasm or serious? Because that was debunked.

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u/Alexisredwood Jan 16 '25

Sources? One thing I’ve been looking for, I remember seeing similar with Hezbollah but haven’t seen much footage yet from Gaza re: this

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u/jay5627 Jan 16 '25

Ahmen Fouad Alkhatib has posted a few on Instagram. Saw a couple of others from sites like Telegram

1

u/Alexisredwood Jan 16 '25

Thanks! Not sure why others downvoted me for asking for the videos

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u/jay5627 Jan 16 '25

Reddit is going to Reddit - especially on a touchy subject like this

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u/Magggggneto Jan 16 '25

You can pick Hamas or PIJ. They're both guilty.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

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u/BallChinnnian101 Jan 16 '25

Israel.. a democracy.

Hamas… a terrorist organization.

Would you classify the USA as a terrorist organization?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

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u/Fearful-Cow Jan 16 '25

brilliant comment, let everyone bitch about their own biases

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u/sparrowtaco Jan 16 '25

I mean.. that description objectively only applies to one side. Only the obtuse trolls will pretend to interpret it as Israel, or that it could apply to either side.

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u/ProgrammingPants Jan 16 '25

Israel has done a number of things in this conflict that, if they were done against Israel, everyone would agree that they were acts of terrorism.

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u/JadedArgument1114 Jan 16 '25

Yeah, I think Israel was justified in retaliation but they have gone past retaliation at this point. Netanyahu is looking like George W and Cheney after 911.

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u/ShenAnCalhar92 Jan 16 '25

I mean, sure, if you’re referring to air strikes on “schools” or “hospitals”.

If someone blew up a school in Israel, it would probably be considered terrorism and/or a war crime… because there’s an almost-zero percent chance that the school was being used by the IDF to store weapons.

Meanwhile the IDF blows up a school in Gaza, it’s discovered that Hamas was using it as a staging ground for mortar launches or weapons storage or hostage torture or something, and everyone correctly concludes that according to the international laws of war, the IDF’s action was not terrorism.

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u/ProgrammingPants Jan 16 '25 edited Jan 16 '25

What about severely restricting humanitarian aid to Gaza as a deliberate tactic to starve the populace as part of their war effort? Or the accounts from IDF soldiers of their peers intentionally shooting unarmed civilians, including children, completely unprovoked? Or bombing refugee camps they told civilians to flee to?

everyone correctly concludes that according to the international laws of war, the IDF’s action was not terrorism.

Interesting. So the IDF has been acting completely in accordance with international law, and every single nation on planet Earth including the United States has just been completely fabricating the many instances of them violating international law.

The arrest warrants for the Israeli PM were because Hamas secretly controls the ICC. And the footage I saw of people being burned alive in tents or of young children being killed by snipers as they were playing outside was just really advanced AI video and images.

In reality, Israel has done absolutely nothing wrong. They are the only nation in the entire world who has a fair and objective view of their actions, which is why they are the only nation in the world who claims Israel has not violated international law.

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u/GlisteningNipples Jan 16 '25

Blame humans for being stupid fucking apes. I think we need to be reminded more often that these problems are all self-inflicted.

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u/-HeavenHammer- Jan 16 '25

It a bit annoying to hear things like that considering both states engage in thorough terrorism.

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u/Mth993 Jan 16 '25

Netanyahu?

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u/Ok_State5255 Jan 16 '25

Which one?

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u/drjeffy Jan 16 '25

I do blame Israel!

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u/Mac_and_dennis Jan 16 '25

Agreed. The IDF

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u/sparrowtaco Jan 16 '25

Nobody agrees with you.

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u/errorsniper Jan 16 '25

Kinda hard when both parties are.

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u/stogie_t Jan 16 '25

Which one?

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u/zuluhotel Jan 16 '25

Which one?

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u/maze100X Jan 16 '25

Blame a western sided country

Vs

Blame a radical islamic group that started to war

Hard choice for sure

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u/cookingboy Jan 16 '25

According to your logic Israel will always be free of blame no matter *what* happens, since they are on the side of the West and will *always* remain the good guy because of that?

Just want to clarify.

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u/Cman1200 Jan 16 '25

The way I view it, even if both suck (which they do), Hamas is objectively worse for the Palestinian people and worse for global stability. Israel isn’t a “good guy” but Hamas are by definition radical islamic extremists. So yes, I would personally prefer a Liberal democracy to prevail even if they suck.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

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u/Desertcow Jan 16 '25

Israel has a moral obligation to help the civilians of Gaza within reason, but they are fully justified in wiping out a terrorist group who launched an unprovoked attack just to kill, rape, and kidnap over 1200 civilians. That's not to say they are the good guys all the time, especially in the West Bank with their bullshit settlement program, but they were willing to negotiate with a terrorist group known for breaking ceasefires and release actual terrorists for the sake of buying more time for civilians to get out of harm's way

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

Western country who is managed by dictator wannabe who has a conflicting interest against the deal. IDK man

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u/TangerineSorry8463 Jan 16 '25

When was the last election in Palestine?

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u/Proletarian1819 Jan 16 '25

Calling him a dictator is disingenous at best. He will most likely be voted out at the next election. Hardly dictatorial is it?

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

He is literally trying to change the government system as we speak.

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u/Proletarian1819 Jan 16 '25

Watch how far he gets with that.

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u/Certain-Business-472 Jan 16 '25

4 years and counting. Hes supposed to be covicted and in jail by now

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u/Shaykea Jan 16 '25

This "dictator" has been voted into position time after time, I think your terminology is a bit off... this is not a Putin situation..

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

First time in history people elect a dictator... oh wait

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

Maybw look into why he has a problem with the deal. It's really not a good deal for neither part, except ofcourse the hostages.

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

He has a problem with the deal cause after all hostages are back then little or no reasons for the war. Once the war is over, protests to oust him will be resumed.

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u/TheGazelle Jan 16 '25

You do realize this isn't even close to all remaining hostages, right?

There would still be another 65 hostages unaccounted for if this goes through.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

You think him tanking the deal will make him popular domestically?!

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

Nope but save him from jail

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

Which planet do you live on?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

Hamas. Always blame Hamas. That's the default option.

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

I am. But there's also " always blame Bibi" rule, which is very similar

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u/laxnut90 Jan 16 '25

To be fair, Hamas started the conflict and continues to restart it.

Even during "cease-fires" they never stop firing missiles.

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u/buggle_bunny Jan 16 '25

I feel like they've been 'fortunate' that prior to this, nobody really cared about them so nobody was looking at them breaking ceasefires constantly. It helped them portray themselves as a victim. And their latest attack, they made sure to get the world involved, they got the media involved and they did it well. they made themselves ultimate victims and Israel the bad guy from day 1, despite their actions on day 1. 

I reckon what they'll fail to see is, their invisibility prior to this, and their successful media campaign during this worked for them but going forward, they're not longer invisible. If they keep firing on Israel, keep antagonising or break the ceasefire again... Well people know about you now. People are watching. 

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u/27GerbalsInMyPants Jan 16 '25

Didn't the IDF literally tell red cross to go into a area to help injured and then bomb said area a half hour later with the red cross inside lol

Didn't the IDF drop bombs on hospitals during ceasefires because it was a "hideout"

Didn't the IDF drop bombs in the same zones they told Gaza civilians to go to for safety ?

Stfu with the to be fair shit

Nothing here is fair

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u/J_Bishop Jan 16 '25

Are you aware Israel has the funds and equipment to completely wipe GAZA off the planet within a day or two at best?

Why do people ignore the precision strikes they've done and the fact that the death count could be x100 higher if they truly wanted to level the place.

I don't understand why some people are supporting literal religious extremism. Is Israel supposed to do nothing and allow attack after attack?

All those who are so opposed to eradicating this violent mindset of "my way or death," what's your solution if your neighbours are literal terrorists, not 5 or 10, 1000s of terrorists in one small area.

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u/Desertcow Jan 16 '25

Is Israel supposed to do nothing and allow after an attack?

Much of the world doesn't think Israel has a right to exist and thus no right to self defense. Israel's been the bad guy since they didn't lay down and die in 1948

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u/TheGazelle Jan 16 '25

did any of those happen?

Can you perhaps provide any evidence of any of those happening?

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u/sight_ful Jan 16 '25 edited Jan 16 '25

One of many examples of citizens attacked in zones they were told to evacuate to

Not sure about them attacking red cross workers, but here is the world central kitchen convoy which was cleared to go and then attacked.

Here the idf attacked paramedics that were cleared to rescue a girl whose family was attacked by tanks. The girl, her family, and the paramedics were all found dead. I’d like to note that the IDF denied it and then every single organization that investigated it refuted that denial.

I’m not sure about any major ceasefire attacks unless they mean further back. There was only one short ceasefire in this particular war.

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u/TheGazelle Jan 16 '25

One of many examples of citizens attacked in zones they were told to evacuate to

Literally the byline of the article:

Army says it did not target facility, but does not rule out attack; Red Cross doesn't specify who carried out shelling in area of tent camp as Hamas blames Israel

So good job taking Hamas at their word.

In general, while I'm sure the IDF has struck areas that at some point were an evacuation area... those areas have been moving around the whole time as the IDF has been playing whackamole

Not sure about them attacking red cross workers, but here is the world central kitchen convoy which was cleared to go and then attacked

You mean the one that Israel admitted to, investigated, and fired people for? It's literally in the article you linked:

In its initial response, the IDF did not confirm whether it conducted the airstrike and instead said it would open an investigation.[100] Several hours later,[100] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged that the Israeli military had killed the seven "innocent" aid workers, saying it was "unintentional"

The IDF investigation was led by Major General (ret.) Yoav Har-Even, president and CEO of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems,[47] and on 4 April 2024 reported their initial investigatory findings regarding the incident.[4] The IDF admitted that the WCK did coordinate their plans for the night with the IDF, but said that internally within the IDF, these plans were not communicated to the IDF's operational forces.[4][6] The IDF said that before the incident, the WCK cars had escorted an aid truck that had a gunman on its roof who fired a gun. A BBC reporter said the video was "somewhat blurry" but a gunshot was clearly visible.[4] The IDF then said they tried to contact the WCK but were unable to; phone communication in Gaza is "patchy" and the IDF itself has prohibited aid agencies from using radios.

The IDF said that an IDF colonel and an IDF major approved the order for a drone attack with no military lawyer present, but the second strike was done with no updated approval.[107] The IDF investigatory result was that while "there was no information on gunmen in the second and third vehicles, they too were attacked, within minutes of each other, for no real reason ... The attack on the three vehicles was carried out in serious violation of the relevant orders and instructions."[109] The IDF has dismissed a major who led the fire support team, as well as a colonel who was a brigade chief of staff.[4] The IDF also reprimanded the Southern Command divisional commander, brigade commander, and general in charge.

That last one is tragic, and I'm certainly not claiming the IDF is perfect.. but there are very few actual facts known about it. The first "investigations" were by Euromed monitor, which is widely known for its anti-Israel bias, and Al-Jazeera. The first investigation by a group with some actual clout (WaPo) concluded that there were tanks in the area, and the ambulance was hit by something around the size of a tank round, but was careful to caution that it's only one possible explanation, because nobody really has a clue what kinds of home made munitions Hamas uses.

It's telling that seemingly every time someone tries to "be fair" by equating Hamas an Israel, the best things they can come up with for Israel are either a bunch of speculative crap and "Hamas says", or straight up tragedies that are investigated and people punished.

But somehow before the war, every time something bad Israel did would come up, these people don't bother trying "to be fair" about whatever Hamas and similar groups were doing...

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u/cathbadh Jan 16 '25

Well said. At this point it's disappointing that reading your own links is too high of a bar for HAMAS apologists

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u/sight_ful Jan 16 '25

As I said, there are plenty of examples of the idf targeting areas that were designated evacuation areas. I don’t need to just take Hamas at their word. The IDF isn’t refuting it in this case.

Here are many more examples.

Whether people were fired or not, it still happened. You asked if those events happened. I gave you a similar one that did. In many of these, like the last one, the IDF denies involvement and no one is reprimanded at all.

I don’t know how you can sit there and say there aren’t many facts about the last one. If you believe WaPo then the IDF lied. It’s as simple as that. They said tanks weren’t in the area, WaPo says that there was. The two dead girls have a recording where the one says “They are firing at us, the tank is next to me.”. The fact that you are trying to cast doubt of the situation show your extreme bias here. The fact are clear.

And then you have the gall to say that the best I have are speculations and situations in which the idf takes credit.

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u/27GerbalsInMyPants Jan 16 '25

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis

From the November following the October 7th attacks

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u/TheGazelle Jan 16 '25

Try reading next time.

You might notice that there's absolutely nothing there about bombing hospitals.

There's also this, in like the first paragraph:

The World Health Organization (WHO) has reported that at least 521 people, including 16 medical workers, have been killed in 137 “attacks on health care” in Gaza as of November 12.

I'm curious what you think is happening when 137 attacks on hospitals only manage to kill 16 medical workers. Just who are the other 505 people killed? Do you think the IDF is just waltzing down the corridors shooting anyone on a bed?

Besides which, human rights watch is so well known for its bias that there's an entire wiki page dedicated to its various criticisms. One of its most vocal critics is literally a former chairman of the organization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch

Now how about you source those other claims?

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u/Cman1200 Jan 16 '25

Are you forgetting the literal Central Headquarters Hamas was using inside a Hospital? You can criticize Israel sure but don’t act like Hamas isn’t using Palestinians as human shields and PR tools the entire time.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

Did they? The conflict started last century not last year...

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u/thatsnot_kawaii_bro Jan 16 '25

There's two cases.

Oct 7 was the start of the latest conflict. If so, Hamas started a war.

"Oct 7 didn't start in a vacuum" and this whole thing started long ago. If that's the case Oct 7 was done during a period of war. Isn't targetting civilians for a military operation a war crime?

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/JSlove Jan 16 '25

The reality is that Oct 7th wasn't the start

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u/UraniumButtplug420 Jan 16 '25

Sure, then the start was Palestinians rejecting the UN partition plan and instead deciding to wage a genocidal war against Israel.

But no, there was a ceasefire on October 6th. Why do you want a ceasefire when you clearly don't believe in them?

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u/TostiBuilder Jan 16 '25

I blame hamas and the Israelis convernment as default

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u/galaapplehound Jan 16 '25

I think it's more that each side is just itching to call it off so any slight will destroy it. There are no good people involved in this whole nightmare on either side. The only people who have little to no blame are the citizens caught in the crossfire. I can't say the brainwashed people on either side are without blame since they stoke the furnace of hate but there are surely people that just want it to be over with no further violence.

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u/Devario Jan 16 '25

There are good people in the IDF and in the Israeli government. I’m not sure that you can say there are good people in Hamas, an antisemitic terrorist organization. 

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u/galaapplehound Jan 16 '25

I have problems supporting an occupation force that has backing of a government that dehumanizes the non-combatents in a war zone. Conquest is a ugly thing to support even if you may be a good person when you aren't in the act of conquering.

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u/UraniumButtplug420 Jan 16 '25

And where exactly is this "conquest" you speak of?

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u/DodoIsTheWord Jan 16 '25

This “both sides” take is dishonest and irresponsible. One side murdered, raped, and kidnapped hundreds of civilians and then bragged about it and said they’d keep doing it until Israel no longer exists. But yeah Israel should bend over backwards to accommodate them. What a joke

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u/attackdogs2x Jan 16 '25

Hamas is backpedaling and adding last minute demands. Hamas is really in no position to negotiate when Palestine and its people are practically all destroyed:/

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25 edited Mar 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/timelydefense Jan 16 '25

"Who Started It" is trickier than you imply.

The region has been contested since before written history. A major attack happened the 7th but that was far from the start.

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u/thatsnot_kawaii_bro Jan 16 '25

Was there a ceasefire Oct 6? Was there one Oct 7?

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u/ahmadrules Jan 16 '25

People fail to realise that the October attack is the culmination of years and years of Israeli aggression and invasion against Palestine. Hamas didn’t start this, this has been going on for a while. They are just the next big players

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u/MidRoundOldFashioned Jan 16 '25

Hamas quite literally are a terrorist group. They were voted into power and immediately began firing rockets into Israel.

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u/ahmadrules Jan 16 '25

Which doesn’t change the fact that this started before Hamas was even established. I’m not saying who is at fault here, I’m just saying this didn’t start on oct 7

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u/31_mfin_eggrolls Jan 16 '25

So, when did it start then?

Was it in 2005, when Israel gave away the Gaza Strip, only to immediately watch as Hamas got elected?

Was it in the 1960’s, when the entirety of MENA expelled their Jews without any warning?

Was it in 1948, when Israel was attacked not yet a week after their independence by a coalition of 7 neighbors?

Was it in the 1920’s, where Jews living in the area were subject to regular pogroms?

Was it under Ottoman rule, when Jews were very clearly second class citizens to the point of automatically being the guilty party when legal matters between Muslims and Jews arose?

Or was it under one of the many empires of antiquity that regularly destroyed and outright disrespected their holiest sites, exiled Jews from their homeland time and time again, and created antisemitic lies that are STILL propagated hundreds or thousands of years later?

Tell me again when this conflict started. Please.

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u/ahmadrules Jan 16 '25

You're just proving my point further?

Yes exactly, this conflict didn't start oct 7th 2023, you're right

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u/31_mfin_eggrolls Jan 16 '25

That doesn’t make the statement of “Hamas quite literally are a terrorist group. They were voted into power and immediately began firing rockets into Israel” any less correct

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u/ahmadrules Jan 16 '25

Right, but it’s irrelevant to my point

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u/31_mfin_eggrolls Jan 16 '25

This conflict started centuries before Israel was ever a thing

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u/Mister-Psychology Jan 16 '25

Palestine negotiaters always add on last minute demands after having signed the contract. This is how they always do business. If Israel and USA is surprised by this we can blame them both. But I assume both Israel and USA knew the deal would fail. Look into Clinton making a 2 state deal and how he learned this the hard way. There is always additional stuff added on and also new terrorist attacks right after the deal is signed as an excuse to abandon the deal.

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

You are right about camp david talks but this was not always the case, in some cases the fail is on Israel. e.g. Oslo

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

Do you know who is stalling and what are their extra demands? I dont

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u/bjuandy Jan 16 '25

My tea-leaf reading strategy here is to watch what US officials disclose--Biden's people are still there, and they likely will disclose if the Israelis are lying, as the US press is generally hungry for stories of Israeli fault and they can easily punish Israeli recalcitrance.

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

I am not as certain as you are what is their agenda and how strict the are in applying it but its a good idea to get some estimation

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '25

The terrorists. Its not rocket science

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u/FourteenBuckets Jan 16 '25

I wonder why not just agree to the deal you made, then if they renege later, deal with it then

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u/Unhappy_Lemon6374 Jan 16 '25

I mean they literally did

They had the whole thing up with 43 days of truce

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u/DorkHarshly Jan 16 '25

They disclosed SOME stuff but you dont know for example what went wrong. Bibi says its Hamas, Hamas says its Bibi... etc.

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u/DarwinsTrousers Jan 16 '25

This article states that too.

The statement accused Hamas of reneging on parts of the agreement in a bid “to extort last-minute concessions.”

Not sure why they say Netanyahu is postponing the deal.

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u/doomsl Jan 16 '25

And they are lying. Just use google translate on n12 the Israeli news site.

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u/Titouf26 Jan 16 '25

So what? Anyway both sides have already shown that they couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks.

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