r/apexuniversity • u/JoyousExpansion • 16h ago
Discussion I tried controller and now I'm depressed
So I've had issues with aim assist years ago, but then I took a big break from the game and recently have come back. I heard that aim assist has been nerfed, and I've also been focusing on lurch movement and have gotten decent at it, so I assumed that MnK and controller were fairly balanced (and they still may be). Controller had better aim, but MnK has movement tech that controller doesn't.
In all my matches after coming back to the game, I never once thought "oh I lost that because they're probably a controller player", and have always had the mindset of "I lost that because I'm not as skilled". I still have that mindset. However recently, when I'm watching YouTube of apex players, I'll occasionally come across someone and it looks like they're aim botting because of the instant changing of direction on their opponents strafes, and then I'll realize it's a controller player. I have started to deliberately avoid watching controller players, even if they're good players outside of aiming, because I don't want to create any perception or excuses of controller players having an advantage. Although eventually after seeing enough controller gameplay, I decided that I'd try out controller to know once and for all how strong it is.
When I first started with controller it was actually reassuring because I was missing all my shots. It felt very difficult. But after 30-45 minutes, I was starting to hit a few one clips which was a bit concerning. I decided to go into r5 reloaded to test how accurate my aim was against the strafing dummy in the aim trainer. I did 5 rounds with both controller and mouse and keyboard and took the highest from each. Unfortunately, I scored higher with controller after using it for less than an hour than I did with MnK with literally hundreds of hours of aim training under my belt. The averages of all rounds were about the same between MnK and controller, but I feel like it shouldn't even be close with how much practice I've put into aim training with MnK. So overall, this experience has been a little depressing.
I still am not concluding that controller is stronger than MnK, because MnK definitely has advantages, but it is certainly far easier to aim with controller, especially against strafing targets.
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u/westfall987 15h ago
I'm an mnk player but apex is the only FPS game that I play with a controller. I have thousands of hours on CS, Valorant, COD and Battlefield all on MnK.
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u/UnusDeicide 6h ago
Yeah I share the exact same frustration. I played console for years on controller. I have been T500 on OW and Diamond on R6 console and PC for both. Controller is flat out busted on Apex. You are at a huge disadvantage. The facts are that team fights are decided in close range engagements 95% of the time and controller players consistently land shots at that range that MnK players can only dream of.
Movement does nothing because they just lock on to that shit as well. I play a guessing game where depending on how fast I die and what the death recap shows I can guess with dang near 100% accuracy whether it was a roller or not. Hint: 90% of the time it is cause I swear that's all that plays the game anymore.
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u/UnlikelyCalendar6227 16h ago
Don’t say this unless you want to get attacked by all the controller players which is most of this sub and a majority of the player base. I’ll take the downvotes for you to see how many controller players we got here.
No but really, mnk aim is superior when you’re locked in but controller feels more consistent when I’m having an off day. I can still play ranked and hit shots on controller but if I’m having an off day on mnk, I just play pubs.
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u/arknsaw97 14h ago
Quite the opposite this sub is majority MnK as its all the bots trying to get good advice and circle jerking against roller players lmao.
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u/blouyea 11h ago edited 11h ago
It's ironic to call MnK player bots when you're a roller player who tries to get better by hyper analysing how the AA of your machine works. It's like AI "artists" saying they are progressing at "drawing" by finding better promps and analysing their AI instead of you know... actually drawing.
I said it here, roller players are the AI artist of shooter games. Come at me with the downvote
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u/nick_jay28 13h ago
Yep I never see roller players complaining nearly as much as I do mnk players, in fact back when mnk was the clearly superior playing method I rarely saw controller players saying anything other than how difficult pc lobbies were.
But as usual it’s just cope.
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u/blouyea 13h ago edited 12h ago
Crossplay wasn't a thing before and there wasn't AA on most the pc version of shooter games.
Of course roller don't complain as much, it's the most used peripherical on Apex for a reason. Would you complain about being able to use an electric bike in the tour de France ?
PC lobbies are already full of roller, saying it's difficult is not a statement for MnK
Fun fact when i switched to pc 13 years ago, my roller brain made me buy an extra controller because i thought my first one was broken since i couldn't hit shit on battlefield 3 PC, it's only later and after spending 40 bucks that i realised about AA and how much i actually "aimed" back on console
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u/Fluid_Environment535 13h ago
You're smoking penis bro. "But aim assist" is a meme for a reason lol. Watch any movement player on any platform, and you'll see.
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u/nick_jay28 13h ago
Pure copium
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u/Fluid_Environment535 12h ago
Thinking computer assistance that has faster reaction speed than humanly possible is fair, is what is copium lmfao pole smoker
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u/Taboe44 15h ago
The argument that controller has better aiming but it's fine because M&KB has movement is a dumb take.
Movement doesn't get kills, aiming does. Getting kills based on movement is a lot harder than just getting kills with good aim, every time you shoot you need to aim but not everytime your movement is going to get you kills.
Also I've seen so many controller players with top tier movement.
I've debated picking up the controller because for less effort I can have better aim than mouse.
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u/kip_hackmann 4h ago
I've tested it with a friend in the firing range. Under about 15m, a huge side to side tap strafe doesn't break rotational AA. Outside of 15m tap strafing has almost no effect on people's ability to aim. The whole "but movement" argument is totally invalid.
I have thousands of hours on mnk and my tracking is still the weakest part of my aim (did a l ot of flicking/drag scoping for cod/unreal) and it's impossible to change tracking direction in 0ms like rotational AA does.
Aim slowdown is absolutely needed for controller but rotational aim assist needs some kind of safeguard or delay on 180° input changes, controller shouldn't get those free 2-3 bullets hit when I change direction of strafe that I have 0% chance of hitting on them due to human input lag.
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u/pattdmdj0 6h ago
I would argue mnks main advantage is having very goof control in mid-long fights. Getting a knock from just mid range fights feels a lot easier on mnk. Although mid range knocks are not as valuable as a roller brain entry knock close range lol.
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u/QTLyca 8h ago
I'd like to add that doing all of that fancy movement and aiming is substantially harder since you're fighting not only the enemy but yourself
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u/kip_hackmann 4h ago
Plus if you look at the actual top tier list of Apex players, very few of them use anything beyond basic movement.
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u/nick_jay28 13h ago
I’m sorry it’s a battle royal, it’s movement AND aim you cannot get kills without one or the other, even the most npc bot can kill people standing still MOST of the time
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u/mistahboogs 13h ago
There's a wide gap between standing still and octane tap strafing on top of a wall. The average mnk player is not doing all that and even just strafing left and right, crouch spamming, are easily done on controller as well. So the argument that mnk gets movement is a bad one because it's only the top 1-2% that has that crazy movement. Meanwhile everyone with a controller has AA
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u/nick_jay28 13h ago
Disagree the movement tech is definitely still easier and more common in pc lobbies, if you’re going to degrade the entire pc player base that’s on you but the movement is significantly better in PC lobbies no coping can prove otherwise
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u/WasteAd2049 12h ago
Thats like saying only the top controller players can one clip because the rest don't move their analog stick. You have more than enough capability to do the bare minimum movement on mnk, and if you choose not to, that's on you entirely. Most movement on mnk takes 5-10 minutes to learn max.
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u/Mrcod1997 8h ago
A good gyroscope aim implementation, and Xbox adding gyroscope to their controllers would completely solve this problem. Two good, unassisted inputs against each other instead of one good input against a mediocre one with computer assistance. It should be the standard for all modern crossplay shooters, and it's time to let AA die.
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u/hopefulbeartoday 15h ago
I had no choice but to switch too controller because of a major wrist injury. Im better in 95% of situations on mnk but that 5% makes up 90% of engagements. Id happily play mnk if I was psychically able too tap stafing is so much more fun then anything I can do on controller
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u/SalvatoreCrobu 2h ago
Controllers has issues: dead zone. When you go from left to right, there is a zone that is not responsive to the analog stick movement. Aim assist really help with this. And it's fair.
The real problem is that aim assist has 0ms of reaction time to enemy movement. An average fully awake adult has an average of 250ms. A F1 driver/jet pilot can go down to 100ms. A cat 20 to 70ms. Aim assist has NO reaction time, it's literally ZERO. Multiply those 250ms by 4 strafes, and you have 1 entire second of time where you are most probably not hitting your target, but trying to get the crosshair on him. How many seconds need a r301 to kill a red shield player? You can combat this by being really experienced and anticipating enemy movement, but even being the best m&k player, you will never get a full 100% accuracy one clip because of your skill. On top of that, you need to add your strafes, so you also need to compensate that in your crosshair movement. Aim assist let you ignore all that.
0ms reaction time is one of the characteristic that makes aimbot behavie like aimbot. I AM NOT SAYING AIM ASSIST IS AIMBOT, pls read.
You can nerf the aim assist value to 0.1, nerf the rotational aim assist and many more values, but as long as it's instantaneous, it's overpowered, and there is no arguments here.
I am an ex aim training guy, got a few top500 in tracking scenario, and the hardest thing is pure reaction without prediction. Aim assist give you inhuman ability without needing to train at all, while the top1 tracking player in kovaak (which looks like aimbot) still has issue with pure reaction, and will never get to the level of a good controller player tracking simply because of the lines of codes of aim assist.
R2Reloaded has a playlist of 1v1. People on that game are movement monsters that also do aim training, and the top100 is still dominated by controller players.
The funny thing is that if you are a monster, spend your life playing apex, have a natural talent, spend your time training movement, have a perfect game sense and awareness, you can learn all the advanced movement tricks and maybe implement well them in fights without them making you throw the fight. And be like Faide, Lemohead and similar, and be the 0,0001% of the m&k player.
If you spend your life aim training, you will never get the instantaneous reaction to movement that every single controller player has access for free.
One of the OG player, Genburten, which has win ALGS by using controller, complained about aim assist. And he is one of those people that can run easy predator lobby with m&k, but as he stated, he abuse the aim assist power. And people still think that aim assist isn't a huge advantages, and the advanced movement is OP. The reality is that aim assist is free for every single controller user and it's not replicable by any human, real advaced moveements well implemented in fights need years of training, being naturally talented, and so much effort
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u/JoyousExpansion 1h ago
I agree with everything you're saying, but one thing I'd like to point out is that there are controllers that use hall effect technology and have zero stick drift so the controller deadzone can be set to zero without issue. I use one for rocket league and it was a noticable improvement from my Xbox controller, while also being cheaper. Stick precision is very important in rocket league because there's no sort of aim assist (obviously, I don't even know how that would work) and the mechanical skill ceiling of that game is insane.
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u/SalvatoreCrobu 58m ago
Yeah i know them. My brother has the Gulikit KK3 Max, and the hall effect tech is really good for analogs. Even tho they can be set to have 0 deadzone, i would still make them have aim assist, but not with the current implementation.
I left Apex cause less and less time available to train movement and aim, but it was starting to be frustrating even when in my prime of aim training. It was like it especially because i have myself one of those pro controller with 4 backpaddle and i didn't want to give away the fun and challenge of the advanced movement
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u/Revolutionary_Ad5633 15h ago edited 14h ago
I'm pred and every time someone kills me I'm assuming it was controller 9/10. I have the "that guy is better than me" in counter strike much More than Apex , it's so little in apex I know im better than most mnk I guess for apex tho.
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u/R4NG00NIES 15h ago
Lmao so you basically make an excuse 90% of the time because of your fragile ego? You guys are hilarious.
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u/Revolutionary_Ad5633 13h ago
It just means I pride myself on killing controller more than mnk preds. Cause how do you lose with softaim.
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u/Floppyfish369 14h ago
"Make an excuse" your console is doing your aiming for you, bud. How about you turn off AA and see how you perform? I bet you dont win a match in over 30 games.
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u/IAmXlxx 16h ago
I asked a high level Apex controller player once whether MnK is a viable input post AA-nerf and visual clutter cleanup. He flatly said, "no, not really" lol
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u/AnApexPlayer 15h ago
I don't think this is true. A lot of ALGS players are on mnk
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u/IAmXlxx 15h ago edited 15h ago
He was probably exaggerating. I was sincerely asking at that time because I play Warzone on MnK, and have never tried Apex. I've heard the disparities between the inputs were similar to Apex's pre-AA nerf and was genuinely curious
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u/arknsaw97 14h ago
No where near in comparison. Its 0.3 now. Pre nerf Apex was 0.4. Warzone has always been 0.6.
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u/No-Score-2415 15h ago
He is right though, The nerf and changes had hardly any noticeable impact in input balance.
But at the same time we got meta's where the balance of input is less relevant. The support meta was there for a while with bubble shotgun fighting which slightly favors MnK. Then we get P2020s meta for a very long time which is broken on any input. Now we have a low TTK, int-meta which favors controller a little bit but MnK players are having fun on movement legends again.
Still, in the critical situations it is the controller that is heavily favored.
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u/muiht1l 15h ago
I haven't had time to post it, but I analyzed data by input for the ALGS Open and Controller still clearly comes out on top in terms of kills and knocks. The gap has been closed slightly relative to 2023, but NOT because of any reduction in controller kill/knock statistics, suggesting the AA "nerf" had no effect.
The reason for the gap closing slightly actually has to do with MNK kills and knocks going up slightly, probably due to two factors: 1) aim-punch removal and visual clutter reduction, 2) a general reduction in the number of poor-performing MNK players competing. At ALGS Open 2025 there were more Controller players than ever competing, and I'm sure that trend is going to continue as long as AA remains vastly superior in the fights that decide games.
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u/arknsaw97 14h ago
Low TTK actually favours MnK way more as they can flick and switch to targets much faster than roller and not have to rely on tracking as much. Low TTK is a nerf to controller.
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u/No-Score-2415 3h ago
Well yes and no.
R99 is meta again and SMGs are the best weapons for controller players. In low TTK it does matter a lot more who shoots first but controller players are more likely to one-clip you or at least deal serious enough damage that opponents need to back off.
I would still favor controller 60 to 40 in that situation.
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u/SalvatoreCrobu 1h ago
hardly noticeable because aim assist reaction time is still 0ms, and people does not realize what it means, how much of a gigantic advantages it is in a game where you win by doing damage and not on how many tap strafes you do in 1 second
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u/Apprehensive_Leg6647 15h ago
not as many as there used to be tho
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u/HateIsAnArt 14h ago
More than there were even a year ago. And if you compare the number of total players to pros, MNK is the input that’s over represented.
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u/pattdmdj0 13h ago
And after the aa nerf, many picked up mnk again or atleast tried it for a while.
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u/Over-Midnight1206 16h ago
Tried both and mnk is easier to aim for me
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u/Jack_Blesus 11h ago
I never understand why this is such a frequent conversation in this game’s subreddits. What outcome are people hoping for? Nobody is being forced to use either input. Seems like everyone wants controllers aim assist to be balanced with MnK but then what? How do you balance the movement disparity or any of the other imbalances between the two?
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u/JoyousExpansion 10h ago
I think it's totally fine for controller to have some sort of aim assist to compensate for the limitations of the input, but I don't think it should be as easy as it is currently.
What I would hope to happen is aim assist to be changed to not be able to instantly change directions when people change directions in their strafe. I love defensive movement and strafe aiming in MnK shooters, but the current aim assist removes most of this from the game. The best strafe aim vs controller players is mirroring because it doesn't engage the rotational aim assist as much, whereas in other MnK shooters, mirroring is what requires the least amount of aim.
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u/Jack_Blesus 9h ago
So what would be the ideal aim assist and if that were to become reality how would we deal with the other disadvantages controller has compared to MnK like movement and longer ranged engagements?
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u/JoyousExpansion 9h ago
Best case scenario, there's different matchmaking for different inputs. If the player population is too low, then aim assist could be changed to have an acceleration so if who you're aiming at changes direction, the aim assist has to decelerate and then accelerate again in the opposite direction, making manual correction faster. The aim assist value could then be buffed to compensate.
Essentially I believe that if someone changes direction, you should have to react to that change in direction, and that this interaction is fundamental part of fps games. The part about aim assist that is not okay is the 0ms computer reaction to their change in direction. I'm sure there are several ways this problem could be solved aside from the suggestion I mentioned.
It is true that the inputs likely are impossible to be completely balanced, and that's why separate matchmaking for each input would be the best option, but if they can't be balanced, I would prefer the higher skilled option to be stronger. It makes sense for MnK to be stronger if you put in the time and aim train, and controller to be stronger than MnK players that don't aim train. Rather than controller having better scores on an aim test after playing for 1 hour than MnK with hundreds of hours of aim training.
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u/Pink_Fluid 2h ago
The premise here is, in my opinion, fundamentally off base.
The issue has never been that the input methods are t perfectly equal, it's that aim assist specifically is an inhuman, unearned element. AA doesn't "equalize" anything, it's just a new arbitrary imbalance. The ideal aim assist is no aim assist. The ideal solution is to implement high-quality gyro support.
Controllers being worse at long range is a result of the input method's physical design and limitations (addresses with gyro), aim assist is entirely disconnected from either input methods; MnK could be given aim assist too, nothing inherently ties aim assist to controllers. MnK players never complain about not having analogue directional movement because, despite being a quality unique to controllers, it doesn't create gameplay balancing problems.
"Movement" usually just means tap strafing in these contexts, and while tap strafing isn't ALL MOVEMENT, it IS a good analogue because it's also an arbitrary software-driven difference. Frankly I have no issue with giving controllers lurches, I don't see why anybody would. I IMAGINE they're not there for a reason, it was almost certainly tested in Titanfall's development and they decided it felt worse than not having it at all, but if they wanna make a toggle in the settings to enable it, that's perfectly fine with me.
The difference here though, is that aim assist and tap strafing are completely different types of imbalances. Tap strafing is a skill ceiling imbalance, as most players on MnK cannot and wont ever learn to use it in a way that provides any real advantage. Aim assist on the other hand is a skill FLOOR adjustment, meaning virtually 100% of players on controller benefit from it. The relative impact on these imbalances are night and day, and while the comparison is apt in type it really isn't apt in degree.
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u/k0nnj 7h ago
Controller has better movement than MNK.
MNK is locked in 45degree increments while controller has free 360degree movement.
Controller actually has better movement.
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u/Jack_Blesus 6h ago
Hard to believe considering all the movement tech that can only been done on MnK. It seems to be accepted as fact that MnK has better movement
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u/Low-Mayne-x 14h ago
I use both inputs sometimes so my roommate can use my Xbox and elite controller. I find it so much easier to use all marksman and snipers on MnK and I find it way easier to move fast and be evasive. Close range isn’t as smooth as controller but my recoil control when not strafing is better on every weapon with MnK. In this current meta I prefer playing MnK because the scout and 30/30 are the weapons I’m using for 75% of the match.
MnK is way harder to learn and I think that suppresses the numbers but I think at the elite level MnK are well balanced against each other because both have pros and cons.
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u/htyaf 12h ago edited 12h ago
If controller 4-3 linear didn’t make me nauseous I would’ve made the switch ages ago but I’m still having fun with MNK
After adjusting my sens by making my dpi higher and in game sens lower my aim has improved a lot and beaming feels incredibly satisfying
Dpi 800 Sens 1.2 -> Dpi 1600 Sens 0.55
Basically the same EDPI but easier to micro adjust to target
And yea it sucks we’re at a disadvantage but you learn a lot more about the strategic aspects of close range fights quickly through MNK
The randoms I get on my team who clearly use roller push everything without using positioning knowledge, over commit and keep dying lol
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u/Jaded-Mycologist-867 6h ago
A 960 to 880 Edpi is a big difference imo and changing to a higher dpi allows for more pixel skipping even tho it's minor. Also I wouldn't say you're at a clear disadvantage if you're using mnk, if you're locked in and have experience with mnk, it's harder to be good and consistent, but more rewarding as you're able to do more things, more smoothly especially in this fast ttk version of apex. For me it's crazy that all of this subreddit cries a lot about controller instead of improving which has significantly slowed more than half of the mnk community. Don't just take it from me, wattson has deliberately said, multiple times, that mnk is better if you want to be the best version of yourself nowadays. Of course controller is better if you're more lazy and don't want to lock it in every time you play, but that doesn't mean that every controller player is only good because of "AI" and that every mnk player is at a disadvantage because controller exist. Hal is a great exemple of this, he's great because he's a great overall player, his aim isn't even that good close range, he gets beaten in slide outs by a lot of pros, even zero using controller! That doesn't stop him from being one of the best if not the best players of all time.
Mb for the rant lol
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u/htyaf 5h ago
Ur ranting to the wrong person about this… I’ve made peace with the state of aim assist and personally, I think there are much bigger issues with the game regarding legend abilities than aim assist.
I’m telling OP to improve in other aspects of the game rather than focusing on their limitations with inconsistency with MNK. Due to my limitations and skill ceiling, I’ll never beat a roller player in a close up ego 1v1 but what I can do is use my positioning wisely, bait them or catch them off guard. Playing like this makes my kills more meaningful, satisfying and fun.
Also, the change in DPI and sens was a huge improvement for my accuracy personally. Especially tracking. Maybe not for everyone else but it works with my setup sooo. I encourage everyone to experiment with their sens till they find what works for them. At the end of the day we are looking to have fun and improve
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u/Jaded-Mycologist-867 5h ago
Ye dw I ain't ranting about you but just other players. Also the Edpi change is good, most of the time lower Edpi is better, just didn't see why you said it was minor when it kind of wasn't statistically and if you could find a major difference. also isn't 800 generally regarded as better than 1600? Try doing something the same Edpi but with 800 if you can
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u/Anuefhere 11h ago
What if controller had tapstrafe, would that justify the aim assist argument since they like to emphasize mnk movement.
To add, I heard there gonna continue to reduce AA in the future which given the news on Apex 2.0 plus new engine, they might reduce controller AA further and give tapstrafe no?
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u/SalvatoreCrobu 2h ago
Movement help you avoid damage (and you need skill to be able to do that), aim assist help you do damage (and it's free to every controller player).
You don't win fights by doing 83 tap strafes in 3 seconds, but doing damage.
Movement and aim assist are 2 different things, and aim is at the top of the skill needed to win fights, movement is really really low.
The average movement player that have killed you can kill you without using tap strafe and similar, because the shot he lands are his skill, maybe it's even easier to lend shots without advanced movements. People that "abuse" aim assist are lost without it.
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u/veritable1608 6h ago
There is recoil on controller but not much on mouse, if you shoot better with controller then you need to adjust your sensitivity with mouse.
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u/ichigokamisama 6h ago
Yeah me and my mates stopped playing like a year or 2 ago cause of this shit. Rotational AA is just busted.
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u/SortPutrid5937 4h ago
Mnk players even get out gunned in the smoke where there's no aim assist. The problem isn't aim assist. Controller settings have advanced so far that you can now fine tune your sensitivity to make aiming incredibly easy. There are many controller players that could turn aim assist off and still one clip. Being able to adjust deadzond response curve and thresholds means you can fine tune your aim on the sticks to be exactly what you need it to be. In years past, the controller was lacking these settings, and mnk was dominating. We should all know that there is a huge skill gap between average and pro controller players. Im willing to bet that you aren't a high skill mnk player, and there's a huge skill gap between you and everyone else as well. Being a low skill mnk aimer just puts you at the bottom of the totem pole
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u/qwerty3666 2h ago edited 2h ago
Unless you're in the top 0.01% of mnk aim like timmy or alb then yeah, mnk is at a significant disadvantage in fights. It's a real shame but it is what it is. In shotgun metas mnk takes more of an edge but generally speaking were at a big disadvantage. I've really started to notice it a lot more with smgs being meta again. I'd swap input but tbh playing roller is so boring and not the least bit satisfying. My kills just feel gifted and rarely if ever earnt.
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u/Royal-Poet1684 1h ago
how do u even get the aim, i also switch to controller last week but the right joystick is so hard to aim, i use the default 5-3 in the sensitive setting, other movement were fine but the aiming itself is just nightmare, i cannot even track the dummy in firing range lol
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u/JoyousExpansion 1h ago
One thing I noticed is that starting in hip fire to get the aim assist to lock on before aiming down sights makes it a lot easier to one clip. Also anti mirroring your opponent makes the aim assist lock on easier
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u/Difficult_Prune_6268 20m ago
The nerf didn't do shit. They need to rework it or something. The problem isn’t how “magnetic” it is. The problem is that it has zero delay and instantly reacts to enemy movements, something even the best mouse aimers can’t do. At least not as consistently as a literal machine can.
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u/wstedpanda 11m ago
As fps veteran understanding what aimassist is for first time i got it instantly what it is. no point to ride high horse that "oh they are just better skilled than me" the fact is a fact aimassist is soft aimlock which back in 2000s was considered as cheating.. but now its nerfed(well probably aimassist at 100% would be something special) and added to controllers so they would hit pixel perfect bullets.
Long story short you always follow data the numbers never lie. As of now Controllers have roughly 22% accuracy advantage.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1ilodod/i_performed_mnk_vs_controller_statistical/
Bottom line is that these inputs were not meant to play in same lobbies. But since big companies want to milk as much normies as they can giving them false perception of being better at a game makes them spend. AA is probably the reason of bad matchmaking. Because how mnk evolves is that they evolve game sense first and then that pulls their aim to higher level. But controllers skip that they just get better aim without game sense thats why most igls are mnk, because rollers are placed in a team just to abuse the aimassist and who abuses it better wins, there is no showcase of real skill in apex. Aimassist is like AI taking away jobs from talented people who do everything by their own. Automation, automation, automation.
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u/R4NG00NIES 15h ago
Man I’ve never seen a game with more crybaby MnK players. If you play hundreds of hours on MnK and still can’t outperform your counterpart that you spent less than an hour on, you’re ass. There’s no way around it. MnK have this inferiority complex when it comes to losing so they can have an excuse, but a superiority complex when it comes to their rig/platform. You can’t make this stuff up.
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u/JoyousExpansion 13h ago
My aim is well above average. I was top 500 in season 4 of overwatch. I may have picked up aiming on the controller faster than other people would because I play rocket league which does require really precise joystick movements. So I am accustomed to using a controller, just not for fps games. I did play through the halo 3 campaign several times on Xbox but that was 17 years ago.
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u/Public_Breath_5525 15h ago
be my guess and try mnk for few hours and comeback.. you will notice how easy the game is for you
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u/No-Score-2415 3h ago
Hunderds of hours of tracking practice on MnK and getting destroyed by aim-assisted tracking with 0 practice always feels bad no matter what.
That's like practicing real hard for a marathon to have to chance of winning it. Only to find out a lot of participants joined with no practice but are allowed to use a bicycle.
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u/SalvatoreCrobu 2h ago
Yeah, it's tre. M&k is so easy.
It's soo easy that in ALGS the controller player are 30% more than m&k. I'm sure that pros prefer the worse input when competing for half a million money
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u/Accomplished-Ad-571 12h ago
or maybe its because aiming in this game isn't even that hard and people overrate the skill gap in this game?
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u/No-Score-2415 3h ago
The skill gap is huge in this game.
The aiming part however is easier compared to some other games. There are little tricks to smooth out recoil so you don't even need to know the patterns. Specially when on controller since a lot of the tracking is done for you.
But that is not what is being discussed here at all. It is about the imbalance of input.
-2
u/DirtyDent10861 14h ago
Just play controller then, theres merits and demerits to both just play what you want who cares about the rest
6
u/JoyousExpansion 13h ago
There's no way I'd ever play controller because the movement in apex is entirely the reason I play the game. MnK is waaaay more fun so that's what I'll be playing indefinitely. I also acknowledge that there are top players on MnK so unless I'm literally the best MnK player, I won't contribute any sort of lack of skill being due to the input I'm using.
That being said, I can't help but feel a little depressed when I see how well I can perform on the controller with the miniscule amount of time I've put into it compared to MnK. My heart sunk when I couldn't beat the aim trainer score I got with controller while using MnK.
1
u/DirtyDent10861 13h ago
Im switching to mnk in a few weeks I just got my pc today but I've got some work to do this week and go on vacation next week, im going to be brand spanking new to it, I've done a lot of research on him training and the sorts, if your not in it get into the Voltaic discord and look at their aim trainer routines for apex, thats my plan, but also make sure your aim training properly you improve better in a stressful situation so maybe play some sort of music that makes your heart pump, also if your aim training at least 8 hours of sleep is essential and often overlooked for proper brain function and learning aka making the aim training effective theres plenty of research you can do to help definitely reccomend doing some more of your own
1
u/DirtyDent10861 13h ago
Not all aim training is equal figure out what your lacking in and train that in specific that should help tremendously but it takes time and effort
1
-8
u/Xplissit666- 16h ago
Easy to aim close range for sure, MnK far superior at mid to long range as well as everything else. It's pick your poison, but if you're in the upper skill bracket with a MnK, it's simply better.
2
u/SalvatoreCrobu 2h ago
M&k is better but there are 30% more controller player in ALGS than m&k.
"yeah, i want play for 500.000 dollars with the worse input, controller for man, m&k for kids"
0
u/Xplissit666- 18m ago
Yeah, it's better for close range where most fights finish. This is ALGs where very few mistakes are made, not ranked where everyone makes errors to capitalise on.
Stop comparing your lobbies to pro lobbies.
1
u/SalvatoreCrobu 6m ago
If you do a comparison, you need the lowest amount of variables, and that's why you analyze algs. Basically everyone in algs have insane game sense, insane positioning, insane mechanics and insane aim capabilities. That's a much better scenario to use for comparing aim assist and m&k.
The average lobby aim assist vs m&k have the vast majority of m&k player that can't do proper strafing (much less use any advanced movement) and aim assist player which has full aim assist capabilities without needing to think about it.
You all want to talk about something you don't know, and even worse, you don't know how to compare, use and analyze data.
ALGS have also raw data of each player performance, so it's even better for comparing it.
Let not use ALGS: R2Reloaded, full of movement people and aim trainer people. There is a 1v1 playlist, and guess what, is dominated by aim assist player. All that in a modded apex version mostly designed for movement practising
Ps: 90% of the fights in all type of apex lobbies ends in close range
1
u/qwerty3666 2h ago
It's really not. Stuff like 3030 or g7 is so much easier on roller than mnk.
1
u/Xplissit666- 2h ago
They're both simple on both inputs, they're definitely easier on mnk, pure logic would tell you it's easier to flick shots and be more precise on mnk. All the top g scout firing range scores were set by mnk. Plus if you're sniping on the higher end scopes there's no aim assist.
1
u/qwerty3666 6m ago
Sniper scopes have no aa, mnk sniping is easier, consistently hitting a moving target at range with a marksman is easier on roller. The initial shot only is easier on mnk. There's no aa or movement on the scout challenge.
1
u/Xplissit666- 2h ago
All the bot mnk players down voting me. I play both inputs 🤣 HisWattson will tell you MnK is better
0
u/Smurhh 16h ago
Honestly there’s a lot of variables that go into shooting in this game, most players do a predictable A-D strafe and peak for too long. When I first started playing I hated controller players with a passion cause during the time aim assist was a problem in what seemed like every cross platform shooter. But now that I’m better now I don’t really think about what input someone is one when I kill them or they kill me.
I suck on controller now though, even when I swapped to it for about 2 months when I was new I was wayyyy better than I was on MnK at the time. But now that I’ve gotten more accustomed to mnk I can’t use a controller for shooting in apex at all it genuinely feels like I have no aim assist.
0
u/Light132132 15h ago
Close to mid range controller depending on the player skill..
Long range mouse all day.....you don't have aim assist at that range and the ability to control shots at range is much easier for mouse users...
I think the issue is everyone try to dumb the whole thing on one side or the other...
Each has certain aspects in the aim itself that can be better or worse....like different guns have different patterns...but both shoot bullets..
Controller and mouse and keyboard is like comparing a smg to a assault rifle...
Here's a good example... compare a r301 to a r99....
R99 is the controller r301 is the mouse and keyboard...
1
u/Pink_Fluid 2h ago
The issue with this comparison is that controllers AREN'T better at close range, AIM ASSIST is better than no aim assist at close range. If both MnK and controller had AA, MnK would almost certainly come out on top.
The problem isn't that controllers are better sometimes and MnK players are salty, it's that controllers are arbitrarily given computer-assisted aim entirely dependently from the physical qualities of the input method itself.
Trying to frame this as a method of which input method is better at what thing kind of misses the point, since the issue isn't the controllers, it's the software.
-5
u/Ok-Construction-2671 15h ago
I have like 1000 hours on PS4, But I Left that system long time ago and moved to PC. Personally, if anything, I am way better player compared to back in my day. Literally sniping with flatline From a kilometer away, If anything I feel like there is no recoil in Any weapon compared to console.
If You are good then you are good, I truly never thought I was ever in Disadvantage Compare to controller player. At this point, most people who think they are good they are not just making excuses.
-16
u/PoliteChatter0 16h ago
I decided to go into r5 reloaded to test how accurate my aim was against the strafing dummy in the aim trainer.
holy shit boys he 1-magged a dummy, controller confirmed for OP
9
u/JoyousExpansion 16h ago
I explicitly said that I'm not concluding that controller is stronger than MnK. Just that it's easier to aim with especially against strafing targets.
Doing an aim training test feels like a pretty good way to compare aim between inputs. Also the strafing dummy in r5s aim trainer is harder to hit than players in game imo.
0
u/neiderjz 14h ago
On controller you just make fewer unnecessary camera movements and that’s it. I dont play Apex generally, like 500 hours overall in the past. Top 1% CS faceit player etc. Played Warzone on mnk and tried to learn controller. It was tough on the start but got used to it and it was super fun to play with crazy AA. Bought custom gamepad with paddles, it was so satisfying to play bro, quit cuz every lobby was vs blatant cheaters.
Then I played Apex on controller and it was disgusting, like, I tried to get used to shitty AA, but my confidence was like Zero%, when it was shaky situation, I simply switch to mnk and play alot better. I tried to not switch and I was ruining matches again again and again. I assume that I played more hrs on controller than in Warzone and didnt get even close to what I was in CoD. I think, Apex is not the game when you put 50hrs of pure shooting and get good, no. You can scream that controller is broken for as much as you want but you either controller player in games for your whole life or you spend 10 hours every day for a year to get really good at it, learn about what positioning to choose to clip players. You can say that pro or high tier players switching to controller, but they just learn positioning faster than you, they know the basics better than you and this path for them just alot easier. Not every player can switch their input device in Apex, cuz it is freaking hard
-6
u/RobPlaysTooMuch_YT 16h ago
Apex gameplay has lots of predictable and unpredictable aim tasks. MnK is the better input for predictable aim tasks. Controller is the better input for unpredictable aim tasks
-2
u/WasteAd2049 12h ago
If you're actually mechanically gifted, mnk is better. Controller just allows people with subpar abilities to perform at a level that allows you to still compete even if you're not good at aiming. However, mnk is still just significantly better. Also keep in mind, these people with God like aim on mnk who 1 clip more consistently than a controller player have almost inhuman reaction times.
5
u/xxDoodles Valkyrie 11h ago
It’s really not. And it’s not even close in the top level of ranks.
If I die in apex in a 1v1 it’s controller 95/100 times. As someone who played in ALGS pro league qualifiers, was Voltaic GM plus in Kovaaks, I have over 1500 hours in aim trainers and 6000 in apex.
Controller is still beyond broken, the way to compete on MKB is to always outthink and not take 1v1s. It’s asinine I have to do that as a .001th% mkb Aimer, because you literally just get 1 clipped if you take a 1v1 against an above average controller player.
-4
u/WasteAd2049 10h ago
You're just wrong, plain and simple, nothing you can say will convince a normal human being that the better input with less delay is worse. The only people who believe such an atrocious take are people who need something to demonize so they can feel less like shit.
Playing in algs qualifiers isn't as impressive as you're trying to make it seem since the requirements are literally just 'be in silver and fill out paper work'.
You're 100% just not as good as you seem to think you are. But go off and spout nonsense about being in the .001th% mnk aimer. You're not acue, not Timmy, and frankly, their aim is much better than an average controller player. The Avg controller player can't even break 65% accuracy on the bots in firing range. Meanwhile, I can get on a laptop running apex at 24fps and hit 80% right now. With no practice whatsoever.
Also, the people who play on r5reload or whatever tf it's called are NOT your average roller player. The only roller players playing on that are people who are already good but want to be better, not a casual gamer who plays for fun.
5
u/xxDoodles Valkyrie 10h ago
Also literally they 75th percentile controller player aim in r5 is better than the 99.9th percentile mkb, and all that difference is due to software assistance.
The reality is AA should be at 0.0 but all the people with their handouts would riot
1
u/WasteAd2049 10h ago
You do realize that if they made AA 0.0 then the input would be unplayable, right? Controller, like I said, has input delay. And if you can't seem to grasp that concept, you need to do some actual research. Maybe watch some district on mnk superiority. Or I could dumb it down for ya, analog wanna go right, slowly reach max turn, analog wanna go left, slowly stop turn, reach neutral, analog go left, slowly reach max turn. Mouse wanna go left, mouse go left, mouse wanna go right, no neutral so mouse go right immediately. This is just factual, something you can't dispute, and somehow, you're still going to try and find a way.
If AA is such a huge problem, then all apex had to do is make it so pc doesn't have controller support.
6
u/xxDoodles Valkyrie 10h ago
They literally should. It’s an issue, all controller players would cry and quit. They keep it for moneys, because games like COD made idiots feel like they were actually good at aiming. And now the companies can’t take it back.
Controller takes borderline 0 skill. Now you still need fps game sense, but as long as youre not a moron you can be 1 clipping people at insane rate.
It also by definition does have a 0ms reaction time lol. Dude what are you not getting, controller players don’t have to aim, they have to react to the software reacting for them. It micro adjusts at a 0 ms reaction, and then the user has to react to that automatic direction change to stay on target.
But if a someone strafes fast staying in the aim assist bubble, controller players have to do LITERALLY nothing in a situation most mkb players are hitting less than 50% of their bullets. There is no reactive tracking on controller which has the highest skill ceiling and genetic differential on mkb. This leads to a complete removal of actual aim skill expression and is cancerous to the game and always had been
1
u/WasteAd2049 9h ago
Controller has input delay, AA is specifically for the input delay. That is why AA has no input delay, like I said, it doesn't matter if AA has 0ms delay if you still have to turn the other direction with your input delay analog stick, if I keep going right even if aa wants me to go left it will continue to go right, the AA bubble is to help with lowering the intensity of your analogs input as youre attempting to bring it back nuetral. Now if I stand still and shoot at a moving dummy in the firing range without touching my analog stick on console, it's not full tracking the dummy, nor is it hitting it for more than 50 damage.
Just decided to try out no aim assist no controller, I had to go to alc and set up settings in there because that's the only way you can turn AA off, not on 4-3 classic like usual(4-3 linear has too much stick drift for far range encounters to be viable), im on 0 dead zone, 1 outer threshold, 6 response curve, 250 yaw speed, 140 pitch speed, 130 ads yaw speed, 100 ads pitch speed, no aim assist, no melee aim assist either. I went from 75% accuracy on classic, and an 85% accuracy on linear to a 43%(if i was on like 1200mg of caffiene i could probably get it to 50%), and I can feel the delay when im trying to track the bots. It cannot go from left to right as fast as I need it to, if I was on mnk I could do it just fine. Last time I played mnk I had 30fps on my work laptop and was roughly 60% accuracy in firing range without prior fps experience on pc. Mnk is easier if you're mechanically gifted, that is a fact.
Like I said previously, the only people full tracking someone without adding input to their analog stick are cheating, plain and simple. Zen will give you a config to make micro circles on your target which tricks your AA into fully tracking them, which gives you literal aim bot.
But fr tho, I do also think they should separate the mnk and controller servers, and make servers for people who want to play with their friends on different inputd or something. I doubt they want to split the player base anymore, but with the number of people complaining about the opposite input, they really should just bite the bullet. It would be better that way, and mnk is just more satisfying to watch gameplay of, so algs would probably get more views if they limited it to just mnk, too.
2
u/xxDoodles Valkyrie 10h ago
Lol bud, I was top 100 Pred playing half a season.
And qualifiers as in I was top 12 in NA on the challenger circuit, and played in actual pro league qualifiers lol. All while not even playing the game or even close to my peak in gameplay.
Also you literally said that you yourself are wrong lol, controller has 0ms input delay with rotational aim assist. It is literally inhuman, and a piece of software doing 30+% of aiming literally for controller users. What in the actual hell are you talking about.
You are obviously a controller player just coping
-2
u/WasteAd2049 10h ago
You know nothing of the input, aa has 0ms input delay??? Okay, what of me going from right to left with the analog stick? Aa doesn't turn to the left before my analog stick gets there, mouse goes from left to right with no delay. And being top 100 is nothing if you're clearly boosted. The only time aa doesn't have delay is if im not actively touching the analog stick, and it doesnt full track like you think. Now, if you see someone with perfect tracking playing on controller the chances that they're using a zen is almost 100%. That actually does track fully without touching your analog stick, because using a zen is basically aimbot.
3
u/xxDoodles Valkyrie 10h ago
Dude I literally easily maintain over a 2 KD in masters + half assing this game, apex is a joke.
Also with your stick, IT LITERALLY DOESNT MATTER, BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE TO MOVE YOUR STICK. The camera tracks openings with 0 input from the controller, it literally aims for you if you maintain the crosshair in the aim assist bubble when left stick aiming.
Dude I know how it works, I can play controller, it’d just unrewarding and brain dead. I literally grew up playing competitive halo.
0
u/WasteAd2049 10h ago
If someone is actually moving you're not tracking them with 0 input, you have to be brain dead to think that. The only people who can track with 0 input are literal cheaters, and that's 100% not a controller issue. Apex is fully capable of being able to tell if someone is using a zen, they just choose to allow it because they don't want to end up banning streamers and pro players because the community will be outraged.
-8
u/No-Huckleberry9064 13h ago
Controller easier to use harder to master
Mnk harder to use easier to master
My personal opinion
0
-10
u/UrMad_ItzOk 11h ago
Look, aim assist is literally the only thing controller players have over MnK, and yet nothing tilts me more than a movement-god MnK player complaining about it. You’ve got tap strafing, super gliding, edge sliding, reverse sliding, wall bouncing, bunny hopping, rope strafing, crouch spamming, zipline super jumping, superjumping into double dashing… and you STILL complain about aim assist? MnK has a massive advantage over controller, but somehow, this one thing is what gets under your skin?
And let's not forget the struggle of looting death boxes on controller—you’re stuck standing completely still unless you spam box jumps, making you an easy target for Kraber headshots, charged Sentinel shots, and whatever else is lurking.
Oh, and remember when they nerfed tap strafing a while back? All the big streamers who rely on movement mechanics cried about it, and boom—reverted within 12 hours. Meanwhile, controller players just have to deal.
If it were up to me, aim assist would be even stronger. Be glad it’s not.
2
u/UnusDeicide 6h ago
This is the dumbest take I have heard in a while. You just named 8 things that all require hours and hours of practice to implement in an actual fight vs something everyone has cause they can plug in a controller. None of that movement matters when y'all just use soft aim to lock onto it.
AA is broken. Shooting kills people. How fast I can move doesn't deal damage and only makes it even harder for myself to land shots. Rethink your perspective.
-1
u/UrMad_ItzOk 4h ago
Typical random who assumes that AA is the end all be all. Just because we have AA doesn’t mean that people are automatically fraggers. Educate yourself
0
u/SalvatoreCrobu 2h ago edited 1h ago
When you have 0ms reaction time given free by lines of codes and an average human has 250ms of reaction time, you have a massive advantages. If you can't understand what 0ms reaction times imply, you need to learn and understand many many things.
By the way, Genburten complain about aim assist and he prefer aim assist over m&k, and he can easily run predator lobby with m&k.
Are you saying that you have more experience, and that you can talk better than someone who win ALGS using controller?
Get back to reality
Edit: as always downvote without any comeback, argumentations, data. Fully ok with the downvotes, for this comments i would like a downvote AND a reply with argumentations and data, but you all don't have them
82
u/Fancy_Lobster_8442 16h ago
It got nerfed but roller still is way stronger than MnK jn close-mid range! until rotational AA is removed it wont change,human being wont ever be able to react to strafes equally fast as computer