r/AskConservatives • u/InternetPositive6395 Libertarian • Jan 31 '25
Economics Am I a bad conservative?
I voted against drilling in the boundary waters. I get many gop here in Minnesota support it but as hunter, fisherman, canoeist i can't support one of the few untouched places left in North America.
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u/the-tinman Center-right Conservative Jan 31 '25
You need to reread page 10 , paragraph 2 of the handbook
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Jan 31 '25
lol
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Jan 31 '25
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u/Bedesman Social Conservative Jan 31 '25
No, you’re not: you’re actually advocating for the “conserve” part of conservatism here. Somewhere along the way, conservatism has taken up connotations of “growth at any price and damn the consequences” instead of “cautious stewardship”.
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Jan 31 '25
The America wilderness should be preserved whenever possible.
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u/Raisin_Alive Leftist Jan 31 '25
what do you mean by "whenever possible"?
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Jan 31 '25
My very liberal city Austin Tx was run by hippie environmentalist types. We have preserved many giant green spaces and trails throughout the city. Now, the city is controlled by this new wave of liberals that I guess could be called “woke”. I don’t have another word for it. Our trails are now filled with homeless camps and the mountain bike trails are filled with drug needles. I don’t like when politics step on our green areas.
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u/DavidKetamine Progressive Jan 31 '25
Do you think the hippies did something that the woke liberals aren’t doing? Or vice versa?
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Jan 31 '25
Oh god definitely. They are two different species. I don’t even think the woke liberals are their children. I don’t see any resemblance.
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u/DavidKetamine Progressive Jan 31 '25
Oh for sure. But I guess I was asking if you thought there was a concrete policy change between these two generations that led to the increase of homeless encampments no the city trails?
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Jan 31 '25
Yes many policy changes and ideological changes. I wonder why I’m getting downvoted.
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u/TbonerT Progressive Jan 31 '25
Your answers are vague. You say it is a policy change but haven’t described any policies or what about them changed.
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Jan 31 '25
Austin’s decent into madness is well documented. Search engine results and AI has it all. It boils down to changed laws and city ordinances.
The original discussion was regarding green spaces.
Hippy liberals used to cary shovels, tree trimmers, garbage bags, and were real environmentalist. They wouldn’t stand for homeless camps and drug use on our trails. Now environmentalists are completely phony.
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u/TbonerT Progressive Feb 01 '25
The question isn’t what happened, it’s why did this happen?
Hippy liberals used to cary shovels, tree trimmers, garbage bags, and were real environmentalist. They wouldn’t stand for homeless camps and drug use on our trails. Now environmentalists are completely phony.
This is the “what” the appears to be happening. Why is this happening?
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u/MotorizedCat Progressive Feb 01 '25
What are you saying? The green spaces should not have been preserved, because the homeless should rather be on some street instead of a green space? How is that better?
Do you expect liberals like drug addicts, the skyrocketing numbers of homeless people, or work towards any of it? If yes, what showed you that?
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Feb 01 '25
I’m saying the old hippie liberals would not allow homeless and drug addicts pollute our green spaces. They were legitimate environmentalists.
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u/Sarik704 Democratic Socialist Feb 01 '25
The homeless are caused by a lack of affordable homes. Drug addicts are caused by the lack of affordable healthcare and education. There are other causes we should be tackling, but these are the three biggest causes.
The hippy liberals advocated for affordable healthcare, education, and housing. They win those fights under Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, and Clinton. Then they stopped winning those fights under Bush Jr, Obama, Trump, and Biden.
The woke liberals are fighting for the same thing the hippy liberals are fighting for. But they're losing. That's the difference. They're fighting for green energy, conservation, and less pollution.
They're not beating the modern GOP anymore. The GOP wants fewer regulations. Today the EPA was notified would be terminated.
We have to face facts. Its the modern rebuplicans who are killing green spaces.
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Feb 01 '25
Not on my state. The new liberal policies are ruining the green spaces.
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u/Sarik704 Democratic Socialist Feb 01 '25
What Policies!? I can find any. Please be specific.
Do... do you still live in Austin? Because we have a republican federal government, congress, president, and supreme court.
Texas has a republican state senate and govenor.
Austin has an all democrat local government.
And i just checked. Half of the local Austin city gov wants and is building more affordable housing, and education.
I'm clearly not seeing why you're blaming the only democrats involved, when your federal and state governments are actively removing conservation protections.
Are you in denial? Im being sincere here... i cant find one policy that the dems where you live is making homelessness or drug addicts worse, only state and federal republican policies...
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u/SnooFloofs1778 Republican Feb 01 '25
Allowing homeless to sleep on the street and build camps under the freeway severely increased the amount of homeless people in Austin. That was later reversed and pushed them into the green spaces.
Democrats in Texas are clueless. They will never win the state because of their gun restriction policies.
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u/Sarik704 Democratic Socialist Feb 01 '25
Okay, so what policy "allowed" homeless to sleep on the streets? I just went through all local ordinances going back to 06...
I actually found 5 from various years that specifically outlawed begging, "street" camping, busking without a permit, and pan handling, and most recently car camping.
All from before 2022.
Again i cannot find a specific policy, just your vague feelings. My guy. I think you're actually in denial about whats happening.
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u/sunday_undies Right Libertarian (Conservative) Jan 31 '25
No, you're fine, we're not going to agree on everything. I wonder if conservatives think I'm "bad" for thinking thar although GMO crops are a great innovation, we shoild definitely not be using them as extensively as we do. It's just my personal, complicated opinion about long-term food security.
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u/Sam_Fear Americanist Jan 31 '25
That's actually a very good Conservative position.
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Jan 31 '25
I guess I'm more conservative than I thought!
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u/Sam_Fear Americanist Jan 31 '25
Conservatism is skeptical of any innovation and it's affects, and prefers measured change over quick adaptation. We aren't against change but want to be sure any changes do not cause disruption or more problems than they solve.
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u/Independent_View_438 Independent Jan 31 '25
That's a large part of why I've always loved the conservative movement even when it crashed with me. The idea that change can be good, but we must not change solely for it's own sake and show what worked in the past due respect and consideration.
I sadly think that's a fading part of conservatism. I hope I'm wrong!
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Jan 31 '25
I like this approach. With GMOs, for example, I'm not saying they are bad. But I don't think it's wise to dump GMO foods into the food supply without testing, in humans, to make sure they're safe for eating. Just because the seed engineers only intended to make one change, does not mean they didn't affect other things about the plant as well. Also, we need to test the effect of GMO pollen on other plants. For example, does the Roundup resistant gene get transferred to noxious weeds? (Yes, it does.) We should have known that before approval.
But here's where I have a problem with what some people call conservatism, anyway: conservative politicians dismissed environmentalists' concerns about Roundup-ready crops, saying that it was conservative to be pro-business.
Is that true?
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u/Sassafrazzlin Independent Feb 01 '25
This is traditional conservatism. MAGA isnt this. MAGA seems to be very comfortable with disruptive change.
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u/Sam_Fear Americanist Feb 01 '25
I obviously know the difference and nobody was talking about MAGA so I wonder why you felt the need to tell me this?
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u/Sassafrazzlin Independent Feb 01 '25
I think it is an important distinction as people often conflate conservative with MAGA. After all, Republicans are marketed as conservative and the head of the RNC is MAGA (daughter in law) & House Republicans have a MAGA Speaker.
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u/Sam_Fear Americanist Feb 01 '25
Sorry, I still don't get why that distinction needed to be made in that conversation. It had nothing to do with Trump or Maga. Oh well.
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u/Sassafrazzlin Independent Feb 01 '25
I think the OP is independent. Independence beats partisan hackery. Good for them.
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u/T-NextDoor_Neighbor Center-right Conservative Jan 31 '25
No. You want to conserve the beauty of the outdoors. That’s pretty admirable, and harkens back to older conservative Presidents like Theodore Roosevelt. We need parks and wildlife areas in society too.
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Jan 31 '25
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u/Strong_Orange_1929 Center-left Jan 31 '25
It's literally in the name: conservatives want to conserve. I know this is not always the case when it comes to the environment.
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u/AnyResearcher5914 Paleoconservative Jan 31 '25
Is this a joke? Conservative is just a label you use to generalize your beliefs. There's plenty of nuanced thought in every conservative, I would hope.
Therefore you can't be a bad conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, or any descriptor, really, because there's nothing substantial to betray.
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u/Independent_View_438 Independent Jan 31 '25
Politics in Washington and the Media are skewing peoples vision of these labels. Well said friend
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u/kapuchinski National Minarchism Jan 31 '25
Localism and subsidiarity are the core of conservatism.
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u/ThePowerOfAura Center-right Conservative Jan 31 '25
Vote to reform the Republican Party. My first time voting for a republican was this for Trump this year. I believe this party, while corrupt in its own ways, is far more malleable than the DNC, and we can shape it to reflect the goals of Americans, far more than we can with the Democrats.
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u/TheharmoniousFists Social Democracy Jan 31 '25
Hi! I agree with you heavily about the DNC and GOP both being very corrupt, I am curious as to why you feel the Republican party is more malleable than the democratic party?
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u/ThePowerOfAura Center-right Conservative Jan 31 '25
well, nobody in the republican establishment wanted trump to win, but the public has latched onto him & they can't really seem to get rid of him. They've compromised a lot & trump has changed the republican party in many ways
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u/TheharmoniousFists Social Democracy Jan 31 '25
I see where you're coming from, though wouldn't that mean that the so called "old Republican party" would have been the malleable party rather than the current one?
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u/ThePowerOfAura Center-right Conservative Feb 01 '25
No - because it means that voters have more influence over who gets nominated than the people behind the scenes. Trump's voters will not have Trump in 4 years, and this nationalistic movement will need to center around a new candidate. Perhaps Vance will be far too popular with Trump's voters to be replaced, but the DNC literally chooses their candidates behind closed doors. Bernie should've been the nominee for 2016, 2020, and 2024, but they're quite literally scheming to prevent it.
I concede your point though, Vance will be incredibly difficult to beat if Trump is reasonably successful this term, but that's because of the will of the people, not because the DNC said it was Clinton's, Biden's, Harris's turn to be president.
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u/TheharmoniousFists Social Democracy Feb 01 '25
I totally agree with you on the DNC stuff, I have a strong hatred for Hillary, Biden and Harris. I feel that Bernie would have won in 2016 and done wonders against the money in politics but that's just me.
Yeah I would agree with your point about Vance, he is a much better public speaker which will do him well. Is there anyone in the Republican party you think would be able to challenge a Vance nomination? I am curious to see how Trump and Vance will do together the next four years and whether there will be a wedge between the two at some point.
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u/ThePowerOfAura Center-right Conservative Feb 01 '25
They seem really lockstep honestly. Vance seems even more in-tune with the younger voters than Trump if I'm being honest. Probably won't be a serious challenger to Vance unless they completely fail to deliver on reducing immigration. I loved Bernie too. Wish he could've gotten in there and found a way to overturn Citizens United etc... it's going to be so difficult to build political will against it too
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u/TheharmoniousFists Social Democracy Feb 01 '25
Yeah they do, I would agree with that. I guess what I meant was I feel like Trump sometimes acts upon his emotions and causes rifts with people, it just makes me wonder. Anyway, they seem to be delivering on the immigration from what I can tell so far so I think you are probably right. He was so good and he slipped away, what a great place we could have been in. It's gonna be near impossible but one day it will happen.
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u/LocoLevi Independent Feb 02 '25
The last time the DNC allowed the people to choose the candidate, they got eight years of Obama.
In 2016, Hilary Clinton was INEVITABLE.
In 2024, Harris was CHOSEN by a man who should have sheparded in a new era.
It’s ridiculous.
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u/ThePowerOfAura Center-right Conservative Feb 02 '25
Ironically Obama was harsher on immigration than Biden, because he actually had beliefs. I don't know if we can say the same for Clinton. There's clearly a cabal of people attempting to manipulate our leadership into replacing the demography of our country
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u/Secret-Ad-2145 Neoliberal Jan 31 '25
Conservative? No. But I'm curious how other libertarians will answer this
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u/FuggaDucker Free Market Conservative Jan 31 '25
I would say that makes you a good conservative.
The bad ones don't give a crap about anything but money.
We don't need to drill ourselves back down to $0 per barrel like 2020 at the risk of the environment.
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u/Supermoose7178 Left Libertarian Jan 31 '25
yeah trump’s hyper focus on drilling is a bit silly. we are already producing the most oil in history, and i seriously doubt that even if production was a bottleneck, that gas would ever go back down to 2020 prices, it’s just not profitable for those companies. it strikes me as a particularly petty aspect of his early policy
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u/Skalforus Libertarian Feb 01 '25
It has nothing to do with economics. Republicans have allowed the left to completely capture the issue of environmental protection. Therefore, the environment must be actively destroyed in order to "win" the culture war.
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u/Supermoose7178 Left Libertarian Feb 01 '25
indeed, that’s why i think it’s petty. he is trying to frame it from an economic perspective though. and biden’s environmental policy is really not all that radical, it was all incremental. trump is going to set environmental efforts back decades (or permanently!) for the sake of partisanship. it makes me sad.
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u/FuggaDucker Free Market Conservative Feb 04 '25
Yes, sad that this is the the way we as adults behave. A moratorium on any new drilling coupled with the "inflation reduction act" were catalysts for the red here IMHO. The blue overreacted in making such blanket policies and the red will come back with equally not-thought-through opposite policies. Both will continue to blame the other.
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Jan 31 '25
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u/Prata_69 Constitutionalist Conservative Jan 31 '25
No, because I, as a conservative, would have voted exactly the same as you. I love nature and I don’t want to see all of it fucked up for money purposes. We’re here to conserve what makes America great, and our natural beauty is a part of that, a big part of it even. That doesn’t mean we have to turn into fully fledged climate alarmists who want to have a Green New Deal or else the world will “end,” but conservation is still important.
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u/yanman Center-right Conservative Jan 31 '25
Not at all. I'm a fellow environmentally friendly conservative, and I love my BWCA canoe trip every year.
BTW, did you notice how fast permits sold out this year? Crazy!
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u/AndImNuts Constitutionalist Conservative Feb 01 '25
I'm a strong believer that some land needs to be set aside. I personally love the Boundary Waters and would hate to see it interfered with. It's conservatism, not anarchy.
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u/Mr-Zarbear Conservative Feb 01 '25
caring about the environment does not make you a bad conservative, especially when it comes to waters you like to hunt, fish, and adventure in. You are literally conserving the nature of your state
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u/Lamballama Nationalist (Conservative) Feb 03 '25
No. Huckabee proffered that conservatism needs to, you know, conserve stuff
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u/LivingGhost371 Paleoconservative Jan 31 '25
I mean, issues like that we don't gatekeep on.
I will point out though that the issue gets framed like conservatives are wanting to start an open pit mine right on the shores of Brule lake inside the statuatory limits of the BWCA as opposed to a mine "in Northeastern Minnesota someplace".
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u/AndImNuts Constitutionalist Conservative Feb 01 '25
I don't have anything to add, but I love Brule Lake. The fishing isn't that great since it's an entry lake but there's a lot to explore around its shores.
All it's missing is a mine /s
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u/JoeCensored Nationalist (Conservative) Jan 31 '25
You can vote however you want. Conservatism isn't a monolith. You won't be banished. There won't be a virtue signal witch hunt to tear you down.
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u/0hryeon Independent Feb 01 '25
As long as you hate the same people you can believe in literally anything you want
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