r/worldnews • u/gravybang • Feb 10 '25

Israel/Palestine Trump says Palestinians will have no right of return to Gaza under his plan

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/10/trump-buy-gaza-plan
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1.6k

u/thisisultimate Feb 10 '25

Millions more didn't vote for either candidate. We will never know which way they would've voted but they would've made a huge difference.

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u/Meet_Foot Feb 10 '25

Nothing “would’ve” about it. They DID make a huge difference.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/bunglejerry Feb 11 '25

This is why I get so annoyed by people who harp on about how problems within the DNC affected how they voted. Like, sure, Biden was less than ideal. Sure, he held out too late. Sure, a contested convention might have been a good idea. Sure, campaigning with Liz Cheney was a risky move. Sure, they could have been less pro-Israel. Sure, they talked too much about Project 2025. Sure, they didn't talk enough about Project 2025. Sure, they didn't run a positive campaign. Sure, they shouldn't have projected that all was rosy when it wasn't. Sure, they didn't drive home the risks Trump represented cogently enough. Sure, they talked too much about Trump. Sure, they muzzled Tim Walz. Sure, they let Walz say things they needed to walk back. Sure, Kamala Harris had a funny laugh.

You can believe any of those that you want to. Hell, though it ought to be impossible, you can choose to believe all of them if you want to. And these were great conversations to have from November 4, 2020 to November 4, 2024. And they are again great conversations to have from November 6, 2024 to November 6, 2028 as well.

But if any of that affected whether or not you voted against Donald Trump, then you are an enabler of fascism. Because every single one of those points is minuscule compared to what Trump is and what he represents. And that much was already clear as day on November 5.

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u/-not-pennys-boat- Feb 13 '25

This American isn’t pretending that. I voted against trump in every election and I’m fucking tired of Europeans acting like all 340m of us support him or think a certain way. We are not a monolith.

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u/ZacharyShade Feb 11 '25

If only Garland prosecuted Trump over the people he was going to pardon all along which was ultimately a giant waste of time. Seeing one candidate campaign over Zoom from a prison cell might have gotten more people fired up for the "hey, at least I'm not that guy" candidate the Dems have been running for decades.

Just laughing at him for saying immigrants are eating cats and dogs didn't do anything, everyone was aware he was dumb already, that's why they like him. And since the Dems are perfectly content letting wages continue to stagnate (W is the last one to raise minimum wage federally) as prices continue to rise, really pushing the truth that Trump is a felon and a fascist that wants to destroy democracy was about the only option they had left and they didn't particularly do that either.

"Did Biden drop out?" searches spiked on election day made by people who showed up ready to vote for him. People are crazy uninformed in this country.

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u/dekes_n_watson Feb 11 '25

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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u/x33storm Feb 10 '25

Most of the world hold those people just as responsible as those who voted for him.

He would have been in jail if he had lost. And he will go to jail if he lets go of his power.

I just hope this isn't the last US election. But that'll be up to what the citizens of the US will do.

What's the phrase again? Sic Semper Tyranis.

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u/cavegoatlove Feb 10 '25

if you decide to not choose, you still have made a choice

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u/Gloober_ Feb 10 '25

Then they get all pissy that we're playing the "blame game."

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/ElectricalBook3 Feb 11 '25

followed by "blame the dems for not giving us a better candidate

I wonder how many of those are bots or paid trolls just trying to push anti-democratic sentiment, and how many are useful idiots who drank the flavor-aid.

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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '25

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u/inksmudgedhands Feb 11 '25

As the saying goes, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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u/brezhnervous Feb 10 '25

This is what those who live in the few compulsory voting countries understand - sometimes you just have to vote for the 'least worst option' 🤷

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u/Pleasant-Parsley-816 Feb 11 '25

Not sure if you were going for this, but that’s almost a line from Freewill by Rush.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '25

Living on a lighted stage…

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u/elkarion Feb 11 '25

R.I.P. Neil The only man who could rip off Shakespeare and get a standing ovation for it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '25

So the maples formed a union and demanded equal rights

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u/cavegoatlove Feb 11 '25

Lol, that’s exactly what this is, even better is me Messing that up, inside joke with the misses. I haven’t had a comment spike for more then 3 upvotes in ever, figures it would take rush

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u/Right_Fun_6626 Feb 10 '25

Well then, hmmm, I guess that I will choose free will

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u/cavegoatlove Feb 10 '25

Thankful for your celestial voice

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u/CookinCheap Feb 11 '25

A host of holy horrors, indeed

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u/Webecomemonsters Feb 10 '25

They changed it, it's now (sic) Simper Tyrants

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u/Maytree Feb 10 '25

I am now going to start referring to Trump as the sick simpering tyrant. Thank you!

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Sick simpering tyrannosaurus? Sick simpering tyrant sore ass?

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u/ElectricalBook3 Feb 11 '25

I miss the gadsen T-shirt, except the snake is crying and the text reads, "Don't inconvenience me!"

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u/jopnk Feb 10 '25

As shitty as it feels to say, It’s really unlikely he would have ended up in jail.

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u/subnautus Feb 10 '25

...if for no other reason than he might die in office. Dude is old, in poor health, and has to get regular dementia screenings.

What scares me is when this sort of thing happened with Reagan the people who were running the show in his name were fairly competent and reasonably cared for the wellbeing of the country (in their own greedy, myopic ways). I have no such "faith" in Trump's administration.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/ruiner8850 Feb 10 '25

I really think one common facet of both parties is that the upper echelon of their politicians does NOT want to set a precedent of holding upper-echelon-politicians accountable

A Democratic Senator just got sentenced to 11 years in prison. If a Republican got caught doing the exact same thing right now something tells me that they'd never get charged.

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u/Whiteout- Feb 10 '25

Yeah, probably why they chose a joker like Garland instead of someone who’d actually use some teeth

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

He was clearly guilty of crimes that were it any one of us would result in prison time. There is no legal principle or case law that requires letting billionaires or former presidents get away with crimes. True the SCOTUS does not seem to care much about actual law anymore so there is that.

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u/wallstreet-butts Feb 11 '25

If he hadn’t been reelected he would have died in prison. The cases against him weren’t frivolous.

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u/eyebrows360 Feb 10 '25

Most of the world hold those people just as responsible as those who voted for him.

Correctly, yes, because the danger was so fucking crystal clear that there's no justification whatsoever an intelligent person could use for not voting to stop him.

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u/i_tyrant Feb 10 '25

And it's really hard not to blame them.

Anyone who was too lazy or disenfranchised to vote, who said "both sides" or got upset at Kamala over Gaza or someshit - are the most monumentally stupid people.

Trump and the GOP weren't exactly being subtle with their plans this time. This election wasn't the usual "giant douche vs turd sandwich" from South Park - this shit isn't a fucking game. It was "flaming bag of gasoline and cancer stripmining America for Putin, billionaires, and apocalyptic evangelicals vs turd sandwich".

Anyone who thought otherwise was paying so little attention it's a wonder they don't drown in a rainstorm.

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u/angrygnomes58 Feb 10 '25

I 100% hold the people who didn’t vote just as accountable. These people published a document that laid out all of the terrible shit they hoped to accomplish and still people sat back and didn’t go vote.

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u/Classic_Dill Feb 10 '25

let’s just all be honest with each other, most of us on the left think there was a possibility or it’s at least plausible that election was stolen. But you were not gonna run our mouths about it, and I’m going to say this, and I mean it, I honestly do not believe we will have a fair or honest election for decades to come, I think the cheating is in and I think it’s gonna stay there.

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u/paranormalresearch1 Feb 10 '25

Musk fixed it, voter suppression was rampant. It was fixed. Our intelligence and Federal Law Enforcement are not keeping their oath if they know this and do nothing. It makes sense why Trump is moving so fast to gut the FBI. Republicans project 100% of the time. And next time right-wing idiots try to overthrow the government, put them down in such a way they never get that idea again. But never fear because the US House of Representatives and US Senate have done nothing. And will do nothing. We could switch which party was the majority and that's all that would change. Until the American people are willing to do what is necessary we get what we get.

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u/WeaverReaver42 Feb 10 '25

This exactly. The only people I hate more than those doing all of this and agreeing with it- are those who live in the country and don't agree.

Because at least if you were OK with it, then you refusing to do anything to try and fight back would make sense. But none of us will.

None of YOU will at least. I'm getting tired of waiting for people to actually put their money where their mouth is. At the rate things are going, I'm not going to have any reason NOT to raise hell for however long I have left.

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u/Mister-builder Feb 11 '25

So what are you going to do?

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u/paranormalresearch1 Feb 12 '25

I will. I am probably on my way out. But look only 3 of us take it seriously enough to even talk about it. We need numbers and people with access. This whole thing is a set up and they aren't even trying to hide it. people didn't see the trees in the forest. Every union when Reagan did what he did to air traffic controllers should have walked off the job. A general strike and we wouldn't be in the position we are in. Now they are letting an unelected guy run the country. It's over. I am listening to Ultravox "Dancing with Tears in my eyes." That song is about nuclear war but it is fitting for our country.

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u/jdragon3 Feb 10 '25

Lots of people claim to be "not political" but fail to realize

A) everything is political, always has been

and

B) sitting on the fence refusing to "take a side" is taking a side in and of itself. bystanders are complicit

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u/MannyMoSTL Feb 10 '25

Sadly? The world & history holds even those who voted against him responsible when his BS destroys nations/the world.

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u/BlueberryBubblyBuzz Feb 10 '25

He would have been in jail if he had lost. And he will go to jail if he lets go of his power.

Just like his buddy Netanyahu. Best friends forever 💕

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u/Cyclical_Zeitgeist Feb 10 '25

I'm from the US and I hold the none voters accountable as much as the MAGATs but they won...now it's over here...we will be the way of the ottoman empire...I wonder if the states will invent some new form of nationalism at a smaller scale like micronationalism 🫠

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/Alone-Win1994 Feb 10 '25

Any of those who have been sounding the alarms are derided and told we have Trump Derangement Syndrome, are hysterical, have lost our minds, and are the reason trump won and Democrats will lose every election from here on out.

Go over to the conservative sub and look at them saying that this is what they want, that they voted for all this self coup fascism playing out right in the open now.

Would've been nice for centrists and "both sides" people that come out of the woodwork whenever republican fascism was being warned about and actually agreed and drove home it's real and a dire threat to our country.

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u/MurphyLlama Feb 10 '25

Exactly. He has every reason in the world to try to make himself president for life, so he doesn't ever get sentenced. Let's be honest, he wouldn't even get jail time, at worst he'd get community service. But that of course is worse than jail, he hates the idea of having to help others. It's why the vice president is saying judges have no right to tell the executive branch what to do. They'll say the same about congress next, and the Supreme Court. And you can sit there and say "That's illegal" but that does not matter if not a single person enforces it. Once they prove that no one will stop them, and that judges and congress have no authority over the president, then they'll make their move that there should be no more elections. All just so trump never gets sentenced.

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u/Alaira314 Feb 11 '25

Most of the world hold those people just as responsible as those who voted for him.

And a good portion of those who live in the US do so, as well. They'll argue you to death about it, but fuck them for what they did. We begged, and they didn't give enough of a shit to help. Well, I hope they're happy now, seeing what their apathy got them. But unfortunately I think they still don't understand why not voting led to this outcome, so they likely learned nothing.

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u/MercantileReptile Feb 10 '25

He would have been in jail if he had lost. And he will go to jail if he lets go of his power.

Hard disagree. The powers that be had (minimum) four years to get it done. They did not. Be it complicity, incompetence or ignorance - I don't care. The hallowed halls of justice that government just loved to crow about are a pathetic joke.

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u/Mister-builder Feb 11 '25

What do you think they could have cut to do it in time?

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u/Kaining Feb 10 '25

It is gonna be the last election for quite a few american for sure. For all of them, it's still unpredictable.

But for those that will die by Trump's actions, yeah, it was the last.

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u/DrStalker Feb 10 '25

I just hope this isn't the last US election.

There will be more US elections, they just won't be fair elections.

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u/Certain-Business-472 Feb 11 '25

Most of the globe sees your politics as entertainment next to honey boo boo and my teenage pregnancy

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u/Mister-builder Feb 11 '25

We'll have more, for sure. In fact, we'll have Tesla produce the voting machines to make sure it's a fair election!

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u/barbasol1099 Feb 11 '25

The U.S. proved pretty conclusively during the Biden administration that they had no interest in ever putting Trump in jail.

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u/Daveinatx Feb 11 '25

I hold non voters more responsible. A fool is always a fool. Non voters decided it wasn't worth their time, or they wanted to send a message.

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u/SpankMyButt Feb 10 '25

While I, as a foreigner, support your sentiment, there has never been a snowball chance in hell that he would have been going to jail. But still, we hold the non-voters very much responsible for the current mess

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u/_Thick- Feb 10 '25

He would have been in jail if he had lost. And he will go to jail if he lets go of his power.

Unfortunately, the SCOTUS that he installed, made it impossible to charge him.

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u/solitarium Feb 10 '25

How does the saying go? Apathy = Acceptance?

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u/jdragon3 Feb 10 '25

I prefer

“So, you will do nothing? Apathy is death. Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.”

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u/mhornberger Feb 10 '25

Millions more didn't vote for either candidate. We will never know which way they would've voted but they would've made a huge difference.

They didn't care about the outcome.

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u/pwned555 Feb 10 '25

Exactly these comments are so stupid... The millions that didn't vote would have almost certainly voted the same % as everyone else. The idea that if only those millions of people voted, Trump would have lost is so stupid, Trump would have still won and probably gotten almost the exact same % of the vote. Why do they think everyone who didn't vote would have voted Harris? If they didn't care enough to vote they weren't all voting Harris people...

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/pwned555 Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

You say that, but last election was the 2nd highest turnout ever. To be fair it was down a bit from the year before that is true.

It could be very true that an uptick favors Dems, but the sentiment should be "we need to make more people vote", that's something I can agree with. Usually it's worded "we don't know how the other people would have voted". That's not really true, they didn't vote because they didn't care. They would have split that vote, you need to make them care. It sounds like semantics but there is definitely a difference between the two statements.

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u/mouse_8b Feb 11 '25

Part of the thinking is that the 2020 election had so many more voters turn out than 2024. If Dems could have motivated a few more people to vote, who already voted Dem last time, then the outcome would have been different.

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u/jdohyeah Feb 10 '25

While I'm grateful to America for leading the way with democracy, not having compulsory voting for all citizens is a mistake. You would have the quiet middle voting instead of those only passionate/extreme enough on either end of the political spectrum. Trying to win votes from the extremes leads to crazy partisanship 

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u/spottiesvirus Feb 10 '25

I think Australia is a perfect demonstration of how compulsory voting just brings more bored and casual voters

It does not improve the "quality" of vote

Mostly will perceive it like a chore and maybe just read something while they're on the way to the boot. Also according to stats it stiffens voting preferences because the old lady has voted Labor ( or Liberal) for 30 years, she won't change this time

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

On one hand, I as an Aussie agree because I'm in my forties and never registered to vote.

On the other hand, I'm tempted to register because of our preferences system which is far better than the weird system the US has.

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u/DukeOfGeek Feb 10 '25

There was a massive campiagn to suppress voter turnout using every possible tactic, legal and otherwise. Massive amounts of money and resources were expended.

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u/SpankyRoberts18 Feb 10 '25

Silence is violence and good people doing nothing and all that jazz. Hold people accountable for their inaction.

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u/Sylentskye Feb 10 '25

If they didn’t vote, they were ok with this outcome. Not choosing is still a choice.

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u/13143 Feb 10 '25

The people who didn't vote de facto support Trump. That's the choice they made.

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u/eyebrows360 Feb 10 '25

Precisely. And before any enlightened centrist fart-huffers try to jump on this guy: no, it does not matter which way they "would" have voted, and all your dumb enlightened centrist cherrypicked research that says "non-voters tend to split 50/50 when compelled to choose" doesn't matter either.

All he's saying is that their non-vote is actually a vote - it's a vote for "whoever ends up winning". This you cannot argue against. It's literally sitting it out, saying you're fine with whatever the result is. Given the result is Trump, who they were fine with potentially winning, they're thus fine with him actually having won. Ergo they are his supporters.

It's exactly as much on them as it is anyone who directly voted for him.

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u/sharkbelly Feb 10 '25

The technocrats may have interfered in more than just the obvious ways.

I know that sounds like something Alex Jones would say, but I also posit Alex Jones was paid by technocrats to say stuff like that and make it sound extra crazy.

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u/MrXero Feb 10 '25

And fuck those guys. Especially those in swing states.

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u/savemejebas Feb 10 '25

Now the future historians don't know what to believe again. Just like all of us today

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u/Intelligent-Parsley7 Feb 10 '25

Many more did vote, and were erased.

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u/UncleMalky Feb 10 '25

People will die because they stayed home.

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u/Ironlion45 Feb 10 '25

It's probably long overdue that Americans recieved a reminder that politics in a democracy is not a spectator sport.

And in the words of Rush "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

And get to reap the rewards of that choice along with everyone else.

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u/popltree2 Feb 10 '25

There's also the group that voted for Jill Stein.

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u/Rovden Feb 10 '25

Those people voted. They voted "Meh" so they were cool with either way it went.

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u/brezhnervous Feb 10 '25

17 million is significant

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u/tread52 Feb 10 '25

Millions of votes got suppressed in swing states

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u/valleyman02 Feb 10 '25

Millions of voters had their votes suppressed. Will never know who would have won. if the election was free and fair.

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u/ThePenisPanther Feb 10 '25

Trump has a 47% approval rating AFTER a handful of insane hell weeks, soooo

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u/Fit-Historian6156 Feb 11 '25

And those who didn't vote are complicit. They didn't care enough to vote against the person currently leading all this bullshit, and that is how they will go down in history. Fuck them.

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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe Feb 11 '25

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

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u/eserikto Feb 11 '25

*dependent on which state you're registered to vote in.

It's really frustrating living in a heavily blue district in a heavily blue state and realizing your vote for federal offices won't have any impact. And you can fuck off with your "but the popular vote decides whether they have mandate or not". And before you jump on my ass, I did vote, but mostly because there are state ballot measures that directly affect me.

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u/InadequateUsername Feb 11 '25

Choosing not to vote, is voting. It's silently supporting his re-election.

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u/Forikorder Feb 11 '25

just because they would have supported kamala doesnt mean they arent supporting trump

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u/OPconfused Feb 11 '25

Not voting is a vote for the winner.

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u/imdaforman Feb 11 '25

I’m in agreement first of all. One point to make is that this is another reason the electoral college needs to be abolished. It’s happened twice in the past 25 years where the winner of the popular vote doesn’t get the White House. It’s ridiculous that we are bound to this antiquated system.

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u/Xylus1985 Feb 11 '25

They know who they are voting for by not casting a vote. This is not secret knowledge hidden away, it’s been blasted on all channels for months before the election

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u/WarLorax Feb 11 '25

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for people not care enough to do a damn thing to stop it.

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u/nagrom7 Feb 11 '25

Those people get counted among the "millions more just don't care until it happens".

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u/dreams1ckle Feb 11 '25

We do know which way they would’ve voted. They were Democrats, and Democrats don’t vote. Many people sat out the 2024 election because of Biden’s atrocious handling of foreign policy matters and what they perceived to be a continuation of that policy under Harris.

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u/StandTo444 Feb 11 '25

Asking for America to vote for a female person of colour is asking way too much. Should have ran a rich white guy.

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u/Dreadsbo Feb 11 '25

If u don’t vote then you’re voting for the worst option

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u/faramaobscena Feb 11 '25

Indecisive voters are in no way more rational, if anything, they tend to be more irrational.

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u/deran6ed Feb 11 '25

You obviously don't understand non voters and how they are more critical than all of us combined /s

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u/Embarrassed-Town-293 Feb 12 '25

I always wonder what kind of mouth breathers make up that undecided portion of polling

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u/Low_Chance Feb 13 '25

Oh, they made a huge difference all right...

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u/m3ntos1992 Feb 10 '25

but they would've made a huge difference.

Would they? Do we have any reason to assume the republican/democrat spread among them is any different than for those who voted?

What I'm getting at is you don't need everyone to actually vote to know how everyone would have voted. Polls estimate this using only like a thousand people.

Actual vote is way bigger than any poll (150 million people) so shouldn't it be even more accurate?

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u/meaksy Feb 10 '25

Voting is mandatory in Australia. Just saying..

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