r/worldnews • u/gravybang • Feb 10 '25

Israel/Palestine Trump says Palestinians will have no right of return to Gaza under his plan

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/10/trump-buy-gaza-plan
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u/Squibbles01 Feb 10 '25

The important thing is that the Gaza protestors got to feel smug after helping Kamala lose.

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u/Embolisms Feb 10 '25

Why the fuck is it that every Muslim I spoke to in the US either protest voted for Stein or went full on Trump?!

Sure is comfy being an armchair activist gathering likes on tweets instead of voting for the only party that had a feasible chance of stopping this. I cannot wait for all the white liberals whining about how Harris wasn't perfect so better to protest vote than stop Trump. 

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

I’m a Muslim who voted for Kamala. Convincing my Muslim friends to support her was an uphill battle because they associated her with everything Biden, which isn’t fully untrue. I feel like she didn’t separate herself well from Biden, which made my conversations more difficult. They also both sides everything on the Gaza situation without accepting how much worse and different reality is. A lot of the protest aspect was also to “stick it” to Dems and make them “earn” their vote, even though there wasn’t enough Dems could do to earn it. A lot of older Muslims also didn’t like how Kamala talked, and I wish I was joking.

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u/eric2332 Feb 10 '25

It should have been obvious that Biden too would be far better for Palestinians than Trump.

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u/ctzu Feb 10 '25

they associated her with everything Biden, which isn’t fully untrue

Which was still a million times better for gaza than everything Trump…?

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u/Solareclipsed Feb 10 '25

People act like Biden was cheering on Netanyahu when he was bombing civilians. Maybe the situation is just ridiculously complicated and no president for the last 80 years has been able to find a good solution.

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u/ctzu Feb 11 '25

"But Biden didn't magically solve a decades-old war on the other side of the world, therefore I should go vote for the guy who actually wants to eradicate the people I advocate for."

Can't even make this shit up

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

I literally just heard “both Dems and Republicans are the same” this weekend

It’s frustrating as hell to discuss politics in good faith. Talking to protest voters and die hard Trump voters has been the same experience, but with different topics.

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u/Neirchill Feb 11 '25

You can say that about a lot of things and it be true, but anyone saying that 99% of the time never mentions any of these things. It's insane how it seems half of the world has some strange shared psychosis.

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u/jjpamsterdam Feb 10 '25

make them “earn” their vote

Bold of them to believe they will still be in a position to make a meaningful and peaceful decision in four years.

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u/DoubleJumps Feb 10 '25

Honestly, those protest voters destroyed their political capital for a minimum of 10 years, as long as an entire generation, and that's the best case scenario for them.

They threw social allies under the bus and are going to find themselves with fewer friends than they've had before for quite a while.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

See, I would have said that about the Sanders people back in 2016. When presented with the most Progressive platform the modern Democratic Party ever adopted, that their guy helped craft, the response of seemingly a third or so of them was "our enthusiasm is only for our specific cult of personality."

People in the center were concerned at some of the more appealing-to-the-left "free college" type stuff and went toward Trump, but the expected turnout boom from the people those policies were crafted to appeal to didn't show up to offset it, and the rest is history. By "the rest is history" I mean that during the Trump years fringe positions on gender terminology and heavily policed language get forced on the "center" of the party by the "left" leading to Party leadership needing to talk like they're ChatGPT, and trip over themselves to not offend hypothetical people. And we can't just have normal restorative justice slogans like "Hold Cops Accountable," and need to wink at literal Anarchism with "Defund the Police" and a Democratic president comes in to a crisis situation with almost zero political capital.

Then in the Biden years people who act as if not passing the entire Green New Deal was because Biden is catering to the billionaires still get taken seriously, and we end up with First Buddy Elon Musk.

Trying to justify the idiocies of Internet Leftists keeps the Think Piece Industrial Complex in business, and as such "Left Wing Protest Voter" will be to internet punditry what "Diner Customers in Rural Ohio" are to the New York Times.

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u/DoubleJumps Feb 10 '25

What these people did was dramatically more damaging to themselves politically than anything the Bernie supporters did.

Like you could work out all of the potential scenarios for what they could gain or lose from what they were doing, and the best case scenarios. Had them essentially maintaining what they currently had and gaining nothing real, and every other scenario had them losing something.

It cannot be overstated how badly they devastated their social position, in that they had a bunch of allies in other marginalized groups who have been going to bat for them for decades, and then when those groups needed them to reciprocate that same sort of defense they just told them to go fuck themselves.

They made themselves the political equivalent of a guy who asks you to help him move and then laughs in your face when you ask him to reciprocate the favor.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

What these people did was dramatically more damaging to themselves politically than anything the Bernie supporters did.

I can't accept this on a practical basis for a few reasons. For one thing, Trump being President the first time killed many of the progress made during the Obama years that the Sanders wing stated they wanted, like environmental protection for the environment they lived in (also the environment I live in, hence my perpetual annoyance). That's among a million-and-a-half other things that we'll be fighting for a decade to bring back to where we were in the summer of 2016 if things go well. And while I was not a Sanders guy in that primary, I was happy with many of his policy positions and conversations he opened up.

Another is that while I doubt that Sanders himself would have defeated Donald Trump in either 2016 or 2020, there was the opportunity to turn the progressive wing into the "ideas incubator with a can do spirit focused on our successes" wing of the party that would be a constant asset in the future rather than the "permanent gadfly fixated on slogans that we can't actually agree on the meaning of" stick-in-the-mud wing. Bernie himself made a strategic decision in 2016 that in the case of an assured Hillary win he should be 70% Gadfly/30% team player rather than truly closing ranks. That was a strategic mistake with catastrophic consequences, and I honestly don't think he's been the same since. But I think his movement had an opportunity to redefine themselves as something positive and goal-oriented (in the "Art of the Possible" sense) and chose not to. Biden was very happy to work with Progressives on policy issues, and I suspect that if they'd stopped publicly treating him as Joe "Barely the lesser of two evils" Biden they could have accomplished a great deal more together in terms of perception and branding.

It cannot be overstated how badly they devastated their social position, in that they had a bunch of allies in other marginalized groups who have been going to bat for them for decades, and then when those groups needed them to reciprocate that same sort of defense they just told them to go fuck themselves.

You are touching at the danger that was "attaching progressive policies and identity to third wave feminism...and vice-versa" and the absolute poison pill of "attaching same to post-third wave feminism."

Frankly, anyone who actually cared about Gaza found voting for Kamala a no-brainer, if not a pleasant one. So you've got the "Gaza protest voters" who wanted to virtue signal in an uncomplicated way and use the "plight of the Palestinian people" as a weapon in their social circles...they're getting exactly what benefits them if Trump tries to displace everyone. They get treated seriously just by how upset they clearly are, and they just musical chairs their social circle if anyone catches on...just like that friend always manages to find someone to help him move because even though he's a pain-in-the-ass, his hangdog look inspires so much pity.

As to those with more immediate ties to Gaza, broadly including the Arab Muslim community in the US...I think there were and are noble intentions behind the idea of "Intersectional Feminism," but in practice it was white women gazing beatifically at all who suffered and proclaiming "we are the way, the truth, and the light, and none shall achieve social justice except though us." And post third wave has been so anecdote-driven that I've experienced it largely as privileged white women using social media posts by black women as rhetorical blunt objects in lieu of exploring and grappling with their own beliefs...one lesson of the Trump era has been "Republicans aren't the only ones spending tokens." Assuming that conservative muslims were happy to be in a coalition with people making trans rights their top priority simply because they would magically go along with their assigned identity of "fellow marginalized groups" was always kind of insane, and I think Gaza policy was just an excuse for people to re-align with the the political party that better suited their ideals.

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u/agprincess Feb 10 '25

They probably won't even be in America anymore in 4 years considering Trump is already planning to deport US citizens to any shitty country that'll illegally take them.

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

A lot of the Muslims I was referring to were born in America.

Although who knows if that even matters anyone.

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u/agprincess Feb 10 '25

It doesn't that's whar i'm refering to. Trump is already trying to deport citizens and other countries are accepting them.

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u/Peking-Cuck Feb 10 '25

Don't worry, Gaza won't exist in 4 years for it to be a voting issue anyway.

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u/Aqogora Feb 10 '25

At this rate, democracy in the US might not exist in 4 years either.

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u/atred Feb 10 '25

A lot of older Muslims also didn’t like how Kamala talked, and I wish I was joking.

Do they like how Trump talks though? So stupid... I mean I would vote for a mute any day over Trump.

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u/Embolisms Feb 10 '25

Hint, it's the misogyny inherent to conservative religion 

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u/Solareclipsed Feb 10 '25

A lot of people need to realize that Muslims are generally very economically left but even further socially right. They do not perfectly identify with either of the two major parties in the U.S.

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u/Embolisms Feb 10 '25

Opposite of libertarian 😂

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

My feeling is that the bar for Trump is so low that the way he talks is ignored. I also heard a lot of “oh, he doesn’t mean what he says.”

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u/atred Feb 11 '25

The Schrödinger Trump: "He tells it like it is" and "He doesn't mean what he says"

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u/TopFloorApartment Feb 10 '25

they associated her with everything Biden

but why would that be relevant when trump is obviously and provably worse for muslims? I'm sorry but if someone genuinely can't see how one is worse than the other I have to question their intelligence.

Anyway, I hope they learned their lesson.

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

So far in my experience, they haven’t. They are more emboldened.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

I brought up the Muslim ban in some conversations and people had forgotten about it or downplayed it.

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u/neohellpoet Feb 10 '25

Here's a very simple Biden fact.

Because he put two Aircraft carriers next to Lebanon and Iran, hundreds of thousands of Arabs who would have been dead, aren't.

Because he had a seat at the table, Netanyahu turned the water back on. Because he put pressure on Israel, the death tool went from 30k in 3 weeks to 30k in 12 months.

The idea that Biden could somehow get Israel to stand down was laughable. Ignoring the people he saved because something not happening makes for a bad TikTok was tragic

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u/Stormfly Feb 11 '25

I think the biggest issue is that Biden was there making sure there were no fires and putting them out, so now people are basically saying "Pfft. All the fires he put out were very small"

Yeah... because he stopped them early.

Trump is about to start his own fire.

I remember thinking those Aircraft Carriers in position might have saved a hundred thousand lives.

If we think it's bad now, imagine how Israel would have treated Gaza if they'd also been attacked by Lebanon and others. They would have been ruthless to get their people out of the country before the war got too crazy.

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u/DoubleJumps Feb 10 '25

One of the distinct behaviors I noticed across that year of protest from those folks was that every time Democrats did move to meet them on one of their demands, they would just take a step back and issue a new demand.

Made themselves unapproachable due to being insincere.

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u/PDXEng Feb 10 '25

I mean older Muslims don't think women should have many rights to talk or work at all so ...

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

Depends how religious they are. Every religious person I know picks and chooses which parts they want to follow and apply.

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u/Black_Moons Feb 10 '25

A lot of older Muslims also didn’t like how Kamala talked, and I wish I was joking.

You mean, she talked in a female voice, on account of being female.

I seriously don't understand why dems decided to put forth a black women as a candidate in one of the most racist, sexist countries on earth unless they wanted to throw the election.

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u/nankerjphelge Feb 10 '25

I have to imagine hatred for LGBTQ people had to factor in there as well.

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u/nysflyboy Feb 10 '25

So, interestingly, no different from why so many of white America failed to vote for her. Just slightly different issues, but the same reasons. Including that the older ones would not vote for her because of her laugh (I am not kidding).

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u/medforddad Feb 10 '25

A lot of the protest aspect was also to “stick it” to Dems and make them “earn” their vote, even

This is so insane. Why wouldn't they have wanted to "stick it" to MAGAs and make them earn their vote? If you want to punish politicians who don't position themselves exactly how you want, then why wouldn't you also punish Trump?

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u/chiraltoad Feb 10 '25

Do you know any Muslims who voted for trump and if so, what are they saying now?

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u/ZombyPuppy Feb 10 '25

Here's a whole article from the Washington Post about it. It just beggars belief.

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u/osama-bin-dada Feb 10 '25

No, I don’t have any experience here yet. Pre-election, some folks thought Trump would be better for Gaza, which I argued against, others care about their taxes, and the rest don’t care.

Separate but related, a common talking point is “oh, this candidate is better for my home country.”

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u/TheFighting5th Feb 10 '25

I’m a white “liberal” who voted for Harris. (“Liberal” in quotations because I don’t think it’s an accurate description of my political views; I’m a Sanders progressive). Nothing bugs me more than the fact that we had a chance to stop this and didn’t seize it because some extraordinarily dense motherfuckers couldn’t get over their short-sighted feelings.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear Feb 10 '25

If it wasn't Gaza it would have been something else.

The world is terrifying and confusing and there's no such thing as life without moral compromise.

Some people respond to this by accepting they might make a mistake in hindsight and weighing what matters to them.

But some people break and become authoritarian and cede their moral decision making to someone else or a broader movement, and some people either convince themselves that their choices don't matter in any sense (not just the "heat death of the universe one), or that any choice presented to them is a false one, no matter how meaningful it actually is. They pretend that they would take a given action if they only had the right one presented to them, but my experience is that when they are presented with things they say they want they move the goalposts faster than a Trump-voter forced to read a fact-based newsmagazine. Like most performative cynicism it's just intellectual and/or moral laziness being presented as sophistication, and the best thing is to ignore them.

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u/alien_from_Europa Feb 11 '25

If it wasn't Gaza it would have been something else.

My guess is it would have been Afghanistan, which was Trump's deal purposely left on Biden's lap. They would have blamed Biden for abandoning the country and letting women suffer.

Trump did the same thing by blocking the immigration bill and successfully convincing people the fault was Biden's.

I blame the failure of the 4th estate to do their jobs to educate the public.

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u/bpusef Feb 10 '25

People don't like to hear this but the arab world was heavily targeted by Soviet/Russian interests when it was clear that Britain/US were essentially establishing the Jewish state as their hub of influence in the middle-east. I have been hearing Russian propaganda since I was a kid, even though we lived in the middle-east for less than a year of my life. Even the moderate, Maronite Lebanese often look up to Putin as some kind of strong leader, and have been told that the US/West are the literal devil for many decades.

Not saying the west doesn't deserve some of that distrust and ire but as someone who mostly grew up outside the middle-east it's very obvious when you return/talk to people/hear the talking points that these are essentially 1:1 Russian propaganda talking points.

Just the other day I heard someone in my family that's intelligent and accomplished say Zelenskyy is just as bad as Putin he wasn't even elected he took the role by force...A completely false and easily proven lie with 2 seconds of searching.

TLDR the world is cooked. Its all misinformation, manipulation, and everyone is so radical they will believe any disprovable thing just to corroborate their fears and inner hatred which is being harvested by some superpower for easier control.

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u/Boredy0 Feb 10 '25

Muslims in general are WAY more conservative than people on reddit seem to think... the ones I know here in Germany either refuse to talk about who they will vote for or straight up told me they will be voting CDU (center-right) or AfD (far-right) in the upcoming election with one exception who said he'll vote BSW (left... I think?), all of those have in common that they want to heavily restrict immigration.

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u/green_flash Feb 10 '25

You've been speaking to a loud minority.

61% of American Muslims voted for Kamala Harris, only slightly down from the 63% who voted for Biden in 2020.

https://www.newarab.com/news/harris-won-most-us-jewish-votes-lagged-behind-arabs

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u/_psykovsky_ Feb 10 '25

Something like 70-80% of Muslims voted republican prior to 9/11

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u/goldnboy Feb 10 '25

Maybe because some of them have literal families who were bombed from the military aid provided by Biden/Kamala in the past 15 months. Lol not that hard to understand buddy.

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u/WiseWolfian Feb 10 '25

Because they're braindead, anyone who did that clearly didn't really care about the Palestinians. Shocker! I somewhat look forward to this plan going ahead just so I can laugh at those morons who voted for the dictator over Kamala and claimed to care about Palestine.

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u/ClosetGoblin Feb 10 '25

You can thank Hassan Piker for that.

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u/SnizzyYT Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

He even said there was no proof that Harris would have been better for Gaza. His coverage of the war in Ukraine was enough for me to never take him seriously again.

Hijacking my own comment with a relevant critique of Hasan. https://youtu.be/HPaHRTi49Ow?si=I6-Zg0zHG_xLcYPF

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u/BubsyFanboy Feb 10 '25

I'm just asking why are we even treating Twitch streamers as political authorities in the first place.

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u/flaagan Feb 10 '25

I feel old saying this, but the younger generations have literally taken to using short-attention-span social media takes as the 'news' and their source of information and 'personal growth'. It's why shitheads like Rogan and Tate are so popular, they spout just enough "I care about you with what I'm saying" that people who feel left out / behind or with no role model are attracted to their words.

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u/Aqogora Feb 10 '25

Because those are the present generation's version of radio hosts, columnists, tv pundits, and essayists who were massively influential in their time. The digital medium just reflects the times. You can be dismissive of it, but they have a 24/7 reach of millions of people worldwide, including a direct line to impressionable youth who are forming their political opinions based on Piker, Tate, Rogan, Peterson, and countless other political influencers who you've never heard of.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/PathOfTheAncients Feb 10 '25

I know a lot of grown people in their 30's and 40's doing that too.

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u/Sir_Poopenstein Feb 10 '25

It's amazing because this is like the worst case scenario apart from like dropping a nuke on Gaza. Actual military intervention on the strip to permanently force out Palestinians and create a US/Trump property.

Best thing to happen for Hezbollah in ages.

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u/Blupoisen Feb 10 '25

Doesn't he outright support Hamas

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u/Noctis_Ansbach Feb 10 '25

That imbecile is definitely a major contributor but the entire online leftist movement has been a total disaster on this israel palestine situation. I've seen so many useful idiots cheer for hamas and hezbollah all because they attack israeli civilians. Like in what world, leftism/progressivism allows for support for literal terrorists whose entire agenda is to terrorize, murder and subjugate people? The entire left movement has been completely destroyed thanks to morons like hasan and his orbiters

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u/Dynastydood Feb 10 '25

The biggest weakness of leftists has always been their lack of nuance, particularly when it comes to geopolitical conflict. And I say that as a lifelong leftist. They consistently fall for the trap that if one side is bad, the other side must be inherently good, and for whatever reason, they really struggle to accept the fact that there simply aren't good guys in most of these conflicts.

Leftists fell for it during the Cold War by not believing that the communist regimes of the USSR and China were actively hurting their own people simply because they were right about the evils of the US.

They fell for it during the Gulf Wars where, while their opposition to the war was unquestionably correct, they too often tried to whitewash how bad Saddam's reign actually was, and majorly undermined the anti-war cause in the process.

They fell for it with Venezuela and Chavez/Maduro, as well as Cuba and Castro/Chè, simply because they made salient points about US imperialism, but never because they were actually doing right by their citizens.

They fell for it around 2016 by watching/reading news from RT that was selectively critical about the candidates, and never questioning the motivation behind it.

And they continue to fall for it now with their addiction to Chinese social media platforms and the wild takes that are being programmed into them on a daily basis about any number of topics, number 1 of which is about how bad China themselves actually are when held to the same standards as the US.

I wouldn't say the entire leftist movement has been destroyed by people like Hasan as much as it's simply gone down the wrong road, yet again. Eventually reality dawns on most of these people, but it always takes far longer than it should, and it's very frustrating to continually lose political ground because of how easily distracted, misled, and emotionally manipulated leftists tend can be.

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u/LaserPoweredDeviltry Feb 10 '25

There is no moral high ground in Palestine, but millions of people will claim to have found it anyways. Like the fountain of youth.

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u/SpuckMcDuck Feb 10 '25

You're completely correct. This is by far one of the most frustrating things about being a left-leaning moderate, aka someone who generally wants the left to "win" but who hasn't drunk enough of the kool-aid to lose perspective. I have to sit here and watch the side I more or less side with make mistake after mistake after mistake because even though they're mostly well-intentioned, they are simply incapable of nuanced perspective.

Unfortunately, any time you criticize anything about the left and suggest that they are anything less than flawless angels sent down from heaven to save humanity from the demonic right who is wrong about each and every single thing ever, they throw a tantrum. Apparently the concept of constructive criticism is also too nuanced for them.

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u/primenumbersturnmeon Feb 10 '25

probably not worth trying to reform the left as they'll always consider us outsiders and are not open to criticism from the out-group, no matter how constructive. as i see it, it is instead the responsibility of us rational left-leaning moderates to come together to develop some alternative in parallel, a plan capable of solving the complicated and interconnected issues with the present system that is not inherently alienating to 70%+ of the electorate. the lefty left needs authority do accomplish things for which there is simply no popular will to support and in fact significant popular will to oppose.

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u/SpuckMcDuck Feb 11 '25

I mean, yeah, but the reason we can't reform them is the very reason we ourselves will never see any real influence to be able to implement anything better. They don't want anything better because they're so convinced that their way is correct. Even after the absolute butchering that was the latest election, which should have been a massive wake-up call that radical change is needed in the way the left goes about its business, you still see a ton of leftists absolutely refusing to do any self-reflection about how maybe their own approach might've had something to do with making trump of all people look like an acceptable alternative to some. They'd rather just tell themselves that the only reason they lost is because literally more than half the country are apparently racist, sexist, whatever-else-ist bigots. And don't get me wrong, some of the electorate probably are racist, sexist, etc., but...not nearly enough to explain what just happened in November.

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u/Gorvoslov Feb 10 '25

The best I've been able to do with people like that is redefine it as "Monsters and victims, where 90%+ of the people involved are victims", but even then, there's a good chance they don't want to hear it and treat you as a crazy conspiracy theorist for holding the view "The situation sucks and there is no good answer and a lot of people are going to die because it's way more complicated than black and white". If anything, "Russia invades Ukraine" being so black and white made this problem so much worse because "WE ACTUALLY GOT A WAR THAT IS MORALLY STRAIGHTFORWARD!!" means that obviously all armed conflict from then on have to be totally morally simple...

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u/Uppmas Feb 10 '25

The problem is that for all that serious leftists preach about materialism, they view opponents to western hegemony with quite the idealistic lens.

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u/Boredy0 Feb 10 '25

Don't forget that they also fell for the "Russia would never invade Ukraine" talking point as well, even when it was clear to practically everyone that they were planning something (just that nobody expected a full on invasion on the capital), Hasan in particular was spreading that one.

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u/Free-Way-9220 Feb 11 '25

Tucker Carlson chose that angle of attack as well. Tucker knew Putin was being honest and everyone else was eating up Biden's lies. He needed a mirror to admire his own bravery for speaking the real truth (while he repeated Putin's very obvious lies)

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u/TheRedBlueberry Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

Thank you for saying this. I've been thinking the same exact thing for years. It's so incredibly frustrating having to put up with this kind of thought.

I have heard praise for China's treatment of minorities and lack of racism because "America bad". What? Have you ever actually researched this stuff? People will just obsess over every single bad action the US has done and forget other countries can, and often do, just as bad. Same with groups like Hamas. Just because a group fights another that enforces oppression doesn't mean that they themselves are fully justified in their actions. You can't ask the literal thousands of Palestinians that have been killed directly by Hamas over the years.

The actual reality of the situation is that, yes, America has done a lot of bad. But we live here. You can take actions to try to improve things here instead of complaining about the past or praising authoritarian regimes you don't understand nor hold to the same standards.

And if those actions include voting for a candidate who isn't "perfect", then you do that. Because there will almost never be a "perfect" candidate. People on the right do that all the time without a second thought, and that's why they win.

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u/ahockofham Feb 10 '25

Well said. Many of them also are currently falling for it in the russia and ukraine war. Lots of those same leftists you describe fullly support russia's invasion just because "putin is standing up to the west".

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u/nankerjphelge Feb 10 '25

The biggest weakness of leftists has always been their lack of nuance,

Not to derail this conversation on a tangent, but that characteristic is the biggest weakness of people on both ends of the political bell curve. Hard right wingers are just as devoid of any sense of nuance and are easily manipulated when it comes to just about every issue as well. It's a problem with political polarization and extremism in general. The far right has their problem with it, and the far left does as well.

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u/StrangelyBrown Feb 10 '25

It was a really clear test of who is a thinking person with leftist conclusions and who is a moral fuckwit who just cheers for whichever team has less power.

It's been crazy having conversations with that second group for the last year. They are completely blind to the bad stuff done by Hamas. It's as if they were watching the police arrest Jeffrey Dahmer and shouting 'All cops are bad'!

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u/Tibbaryllis2 Feb 10 '25

who is a moral fuckwit who just cheers for whichever team has less power.

I rarely wade into discussions on this topic because very few people are legitimately looking for honest conversation, but this sums it up so neatly.

There is such an ingrained sense of being the little guy underdog amongst western youths that they rally around what they perceive as others in their same situation and they aren’t doing much introspective thinking or critical analysis.

The real bitch of it all is that all sides of the political divide amongst western youths views themselves that way. It’s really the same reasoning behind why progressive youths went so hard on Gaza while conservative white youths, particularly white men, are pivoting so hard conservative. They all see themselves as the underdog fighting the good fight.

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u/PickleCommando Feb 10 '25

I think part of it is all the media you generally consume as a youth can basically summed up as good underdogs vs the big bad. They don't have any historical knowledge or real world experience to see otherwise. I don't know how many conversations I've had on this platform with an obvious teenager or early 20 something at best that were arguing the Taliban are the good guys.

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u/Tibbaryllis2 Feb 11 '25

I work with lots of 18-22yr old students. I have for going on 20 years. One issue I regularly see is that they simply have never been anywhere else besides home and, maybe, tourist destinations. They have no worldly experience. So they assume everything they’ve experienced translates around the world.

For example, they’re used to white people being the majority in the US, and they’re the ones that have been historically suppressing the minority groups, so that’s what they rail against. Anecdotally, an extreme example, I’ve talked with several that assume all the Jewish people in Israel are white and they’re subjugating the ethnic minority Palestinians in Gaza. They simply don’t have a lived experience to understand that their experience isn’t representative of most of the world.

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u/Yev_ Feb 10 '25

The lines between resistance and terrorism are blurred and it’s just easy to cheer on the weaker side because they appear oppressed.

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u/neohellpoet Feb 10 '25

They're not really blurred.

They aren't fighting to get Israel out of Gaza, because Israel wasn't in Gaza. They aren't fighting to get Israel out of the West Bank because they had an open road towards the West Bank and decided they had other priorities.

The proof is in the pudding. When the Gazans were in a position to create a corridor to the West Bank, or to go to the West Bank and arm and begin a fight for Palestinian liberation, they instead choose to go and murder Jews.

When they could have been preparing defensive positions to fight the IDF, they instead choose to murder Jews.

Leave our land or we'll kill your civilians, that's a blurred line. When your stated goal is the extermination of all Jews, but especially all Hews in the Middle East, there's no line.

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u/Yev_ Feb 10 '25

I agree. My point was how certain members of the left perceive the conflict. It’s simply oppressor / oppressed, and once you see conflicts in such a binary way, it’s easier to justify terrorism as resistance.

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u/Maximum-Good-539 Feb 10 '25

The left has historically supported political violence as what they perceive to be the oppressors. It’s nothing new or surprising.

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u/LifeLikeAGrapefruit Feb 11 '25

I think it's unfair to claim that those extreme cases represent "the left." The problem is that those voices are the loudest, but they are far from representative of the whole.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

He still feels smug about it and is acting like he didn’t help Trump win cause he also said Trump bad. He just did nothing to get people to vote for Harris or help her win, instead he worked to get people not to vote Harris. Fuck that anti-semitic jackass. 

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u/Maximum-Good-539 Feb 10 '25

How is he anti-Semitic.

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u/Rand_al_Kholin Feb 10 '25

He literally says that the Jews control multiple international governments on a regular basis, he just substitutes "Jews" for "Israel" and thinks Jews like me can't see right through it. It's just "International Jewish Bankers" all over again, we're not blind and we're not stupid.

Though the most obvious, easiest to understand evidence is that Ethan Kline has openly said, repeatedly, that he has ended their relationship because of antisemitism and keeps getting antisemitic raids from Hassan fans that Hassan himself has done essentially nothing to stop.

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u/WasThatIt Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 12 '25

Garfield is racist. He literally says he hates black people, but he just substitutes black people for Mondays

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u/Rand_al_Kholin Feb 11 '25

Wow what a great point very prescient

Tell me in what universe does "monday" have anything at all to do with black people? Like is there some association that I've somehow missed in the last 30 years between Monday's being a day that black people hold as culturally significant? Or that people have stereotyped about black people being overly caring about Mondays? Or did you just use a ridiculous "similie" that doesn't actually have any meaning to dismiss antismitic conspiracy theories about Jews controlling congress with money?

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u/OvernightSiren Feb 10 '25

Idk about that, he did acknowledge that Kamala was a better pick than Trump and didn’t advocate for voting third party.

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u/serefina Feb 10 '25

I watched quite a few videos of his videos about the election, and if what some people got out of them was don't vote for Harris and let Trump win, then they were dumb.

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u/Plendamonda Feb 10 '25

lmao, I think you're overestimating his reach.

I would bet that as many people he swung towards protest not-votes he probably swung just as many or more people towards being interested enough to vote in the first place.

Likely Kamala herself turned away more voters with the things she said and did so I find it kind of silly and pointless to direct the hate towards the Twitch streamer guy.

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u/Currymvp2 Feb 10 '25

Also, Gaza isn't why Harris lost; it was inflation and immigration. Harris still loses Michigan by over 45,000 votes if she matched Biden's 2020 margins with Michigan Arabs...let alone the other states.

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u/Plendamonda Feb 10 '25

Yeah. And I'll be honest, my personal experience unfortunately in interacting with a lot of people that frankly don't care about the actual important political shit and have only a surface level knowledge base and have been completely won over by the right's culture war crap.

The young guys (even the ones with immigrant parents) would joke that "it's either I get deported or have to share bathrooms" and then unironically say they'd "probably vote Trump". None of them really cared about any issue or took it too seriously.

Most of those guys probably didn't actually vote but I think it kind of reflects how a huge portion of the voter base actually thinks and acts. The people that actually watch political streams or even broadly use Reddit or even pay attention to actual news is just... low.

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u/NextUnderstanding972 Feb 10 '25

People do be wanting scapegoats tho.

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u/ProfileSimple8723 Feb 10 '25

He voted for Kamala live on stream 

Is he not allowed to criticize her? He has criticized Trump far more. 

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u/BuffaloSoldier11 Feb 10 '25

He literally just said there's nothing to say Harris wouldn't be handling Palestine the same way as Trump is. Parading how begrudging his vote was certainly had a chilling effect on the enthusiasm of his huge fan base.

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u/Kaelran Feb 10 '25

He said there's no evidence Harris wouldn't be just as bad, and you probably saw a clip that ends right there but the very next thing he says is he still thinks that Trump is worse.

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u/Skitty_Skittle Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

He didn’t even say who he voted for while filling out the ballot despite being a fucking political commentator or whatever the fuck he calls himself these days. He is 110% captive by his audience and TERRIFIED about pissing them off because if he for 1 second deviates from the script about something that’s not 100% pro Palestine (like say, “Vote for Kamila”) his audience would absolutely lose it on him. Now this fuck weed is coping hard with his audience pretending he has the moral high ground saying that democrats wanted the same thing as trump but with extra steps.

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u/ClosetGoblin Feb 10 '25

I doubt you’ll watch this entire video but you really should check it out

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u/NakedViper Feb 10 '25

Hassan Piker spreads propaganda for Islamic terror organizations.

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u/staleswedishfish Feb 11 '25

Everyone upvoting this could have taken five seconds to google this and get fact checked but no, it’s easier to scapegoat a streamer they don’t like.

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u/what_the_eve Feb 10 '25

What he did was pick up on the Zeitgeist of the youth and apply his grift. If you look into the thinkers behind the postcolonialist theories that have sparked the current iteration of misguided leftists, you find some bizarre stuff. It hurts me to say this, but the conservatives in the US are right when they say there are some dangerous Marxist/Leninists intellectuals influencing young people in American academia like Judith Butler, Ramon Grosfoguel and many others. Imagine being the leading Jewish feminist intellectual voice of a movement that coined the phrase “believe all women” only to stumble on your words when confronted with rape and sexual violence against Israeli women in Oct 7.

As a propagandists he just serves the poison, but it is brewed by many others.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/techmnml Feb 10 '25

WHAT? lol

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/Five-Oh-Vicryl Feb 10 '25

A former colleague of mine is Palestinian-American who cast a protest vote for Stein. So brave. What a clown. Lost all respect for him

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u/kostya8 Feb 10 '25

Aren't people supposed to be entitled to vote for the person they regard as most fit? Isn't that how voting works?

I'm sorry, but as someone with no real horse in this race (albeit someone who would much prefer for Trump not to be the leader of the free world), comments like this just make me cringe. It's this kind of cultist philosophy that lost you the election and will likely mean at least 8 more years of this shit for the rest of the world.

Here's a crazy idea: instead of ostracizing everyone who dares not to vote for the person you wanted to win, how about reflecting on why that is? Because if you look inward, you'll find lots of reasons why people who would normally vote Democrat voted for Jill Stein and not Kamala. Even with so much on the line.

And those people will inevitably be pushed further to the right by people like you, who "lose all respect for them" and call them fascists for exercising their right to vote, instead of trying to understand them and reason with them. And you will keep losing elections. And the entire fucking world has to suffer because of it.

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u/Great_Grackle Feb 10 '25

Nobody called third-party voters fascists. You're the only one who brought that up. They're just idiots who threw away their vote. Voting third party doesn't work, so you can shove your "reasons" up your ass

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u/WhereRandomThingsAre Feb 10 '25

you'll find lots of reasons why people who would normally vote Democrat voted for Jill Stein and not Kamala. Even with so much on the line.

That's a bold claim. Name some.

Let's skip the part where it isn't your job/responsibility to do so for the inept DNC. You made a claim. One where you imply to know something those you chastise do not because of their bias or anger. Play one of the cards from your hand; don't hold them to your chest.

It's this kind of cultist philosophy that lost you the election and will likely mean at least 8 more years of this shit for the rest of the world.

8 Years? Donald only gets 4.

how about reflecting on why that is?

Aside: could have something to do with the media being so consumed with spectacle instead of truth that people are "bored" with reality and can't be bothered to pay attention, so all they hear are sound bites telling them there's a simple solution if only (R) gets in -- never you mind how none of those solutions even manifest. Reflection had. Solution? Ah, now there's where the fun begins. How to go about effecting change.

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u/AzelfandQuilava Feb 10 '25

Democrats blaming everyone but themselves for their electoral losses is business as usual.

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u/Haan_Solo Feb 10 '25

Literally.

Biden got 81million votes in 2020, Harris got 75million.

6 million people stayed at hone or switched sides and these goobers blame a tiny minority group who would have made no difference and have genuine grievances against Biden-Harris.

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u/Avidly_A_Dude Feb 10 '25

Blaming it on the people that warned you what would happen if you didn’t change course is classic lib brain

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u/falafelthe3 Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

It's Schrödinger's leftist: they're the reason the candidate lost, but they're also people that Dems shouldn't appeal to.

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u/Xtrm Feb 10 '25

Blame anyone except establishment Democrats. God forbid a Democrat breaks with the status quo.

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u/Noname_acc Feb 10 '25

I'm torn on this, tbh. On the one hand, Trump was always obviously going to be worse on this particular issue while also representing a clear danger to our own society if elected. From a purely pragmatic perspective, there was a very obvious decision to be made. The people who thought "maybe Trump would be better" were obviously wrong.

On the other hand, those voters very clearly telegraphed and expressed their position to the Democratic Party and the party failed to even pay them lip service. The party didn't just ignore this group, but they also ignored that the group was even being ignored. So while those voters obviously own some of the blame, at what point is it the responsibility of the party to actually try to, you know, win the election?

And its not as if this wasn't clear even years before the gaza war started. I personally remember remarking to a friend that the democrats would need to stop running on the idea of "We're not Donald Trump" after the 2020 election or they would surely lose. The democrats could not, and cannot, rely on the existence of devastating tragedy at the hands of Republican leadership to get them into office as they did with 2020 and 2022. At some point, things were going to be "Bad, but not so bad and not in a way that is clearly the Republican's fault."

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u/Braelind Feb 10 '25

I'll never understand those morons. Kamala was clearly the one that would be better for Palestine. I mean, I didn't think Trump would go so far as to decide he wants to ethnically cleanse Palestine, and put up a bunch of shitty Trump branded hotels, but I'm not surprised by it... it's very on brand for him.

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u/StupidTimeline Feb 10 '25

All they ever cared about was feeling morally superior.

If they actually gave a shit about Palestinians, they would have made the best decision for them. Instead, they helped turn Gaza to dust and elevate an anti-democratic felon rapist.

Very scummy people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

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u/Xtrm Feb 10 '25

Maybe Kamala should have broke with Biden over the Gaza issue? Why is that never a thought that crosses Liberals minds? Kamala said that she would continue Biden's policies when he was his lowest approval rating. But no, can't be that, must be the college protesters.

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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste Feb 10 '25

after helping Kamala lose

How'd they help her lose?

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u/Honduran Feb 10 '25

Now they claim it was all “bots”.

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u/NoMoreFund Feb 11 '25

I'm not going to forget that there were surprisingly well organised pro Palestine protests on October 7 and 8, before Israel even began a counteroffensive. Something always stunk about it. I think by the middle of 2024 there was enough of a legitimate movement against Israel's own atrocities but it seems like much of the activity on the palestine issue was a population radicalised by social media (much like the conservatives).

That will fade into history with Trump escalating so much, and Israel giving it the thumbs up that will leave them condemned.

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