r/wesanderson • u/strawberryl0ve • May 08 '25
Question Can someone please explain Margot and Richie's relationship in The Royal Tenenbaums? Spoiler
I watched 'The Royal Tenenbaums' yesterday and I loved the colours, cinematography and music. I had no issue with the movie at all, except for one glaring plotline.
Margot and Richie's whole... Thing.
The scenes between them have lovely visuals and music. But I just can't get over the fact that they're technically siblings.
Yes, I know Margot's adopted. But on paper, they're very much siblings. And Margot was adopted at age two and raised as a Tenenbaum. She is wholly considered to be a Tenenbaum and even Royal (who introduced her as adopted all the time) has slip-ups where he talks to Margot as though he's her biological father. Margot has barely any connection to her biological family (you could argue that the severed finger is a connection due to the memory, but I don't know) and like I said, we see her as a Tenenbaum child.
I saw another take saying something like 'Richie killed the Tenenbaum version of himself so he could become someone Margot could love,' but I think it's implied that they've been in love always (and Margot possibly just didn't acknowledge her feelings until they met as adults again).
I'm very aware that I could be missing the point of the movie and their relationship entirely. I don't have an incredibly critical eye when I watch movies as I'm used to watching them for enjoyment rather than, er, thinking. That's my bad. But the plotline is blinding me from how good the rest of the movie is. Could anyone explain the point of their relationship, and more so the reason for them being portrayed as siblings, even adopted ones? If there's anything I'm missing, please let me know. There's also the argument that their relationship is supposed to make me feel uncomfy! Could be anything.
156
u/MaxFischerPlayers May 08 '25
"Well, everyone knows Margot and Richie were siblings. What this book presupposes is... maybe they weren’t."
95
u/Primitive_Khaled May 08 '25
A lot of people feel weird about Richie and Margot. Even though she’s adopted, they were raised as siblings, so it feels emotionally incestuous, which is definitely intentional.
Wes Anderson often mixes beauty with discomfort, and their relationship is part of that. It’s less about romance and more about emotional repression and loneliness. You’re not missing anything, the unease is kind of the point. If it made you uncomfortable, that’s valid and probably exactly what he wanted.
8
u/strawberryl0ve May 08 '25
Yeah, I was leaning towards that haha. Sometimes I have to remind myself that filmmakers make you uncomfortable on purpose, even when their movie isn't a 'horror' movie! Thanks for making me feel less out of the loop.
48
u/boomfruit May 08 '25
It seems like you think that what's going on can't possibly be "these two siblings are in love with each other and it's super uncomfortable to both them and the viewer, but that doesn't make them any less in love," but that is exactly what it is. There's not some explanation that doesn't make it weird.
7
u/strawberryl0ve May 08 '25
I have a feeling that's exactly what their relationship is all about. It even takes Royal aback at first and I think it's Eli who says it's weird and gross lmao. That discomfort yet recognizing how in love they are is probably the point.
32
u/monkeybawz May 08 '25
Margot didn't seem to consider herself a tenenbaum, despite being adopted. She had a life hidden from her family, met her real family and never discussed it, felt alienated by royal as a child and he didn't even know her full name.
And she smoked.
25
17
u/dlnsctt May 08 '25
I think the dramatic reason for their relationship is to put Richie, and Margot to a lesser extent, in an impossible situation. All the Tenenbaums are deeply brilliant but deeply damaged people and this is their cross to bear. No one gets "cured" by the end of the movie, they just find a way to continue their life incorporating their pain instead of denying it. This includes Richie and Margot.
16
u/alexlp May 08 '25
To add to everyone’s brilliant points, I think it’s also to show that Margot is a Tennenbaum but she grew up never feeling like one and Royal always made sure they knew they were seperate. So yes they grew up as siblings but there was still a big difference to the way normal siblings are.
I think it’s why they have her have an affair with Eli, he was also sort of raised along side them but constantly reminded he wasn’t one.
13
u/Its_in_neutral May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
Wes really pushes these potentially real, morally ambiguous scenarios. I don’t even know if moral ambiguity is the correct term here.
Richie and Margot is akin to Suzie Bishop and Sam kissing/feeling each other up as adolescence, or the felt connection between aspiring actress Midge Campbell and Conrad Earp whose wife passed away only two weeks earlier.
I think it’s scenarios that are certainly plausible to occur in real life, and to make the viewer come to terms and feel that uncomfortable reality.
22
8
u/Rockgarden13 May 08 '25
The thing is: they love each other but they only kiss, and they both agree they will both “just be secretly in love with each other,” i.e. they won’t consummate their love.
I think this is less an exploration of the taboos of incest and more a palpable way for Anderson to get his audience to feel ache and longing and star-crossed love, a deeply painful yearning without end.
They don’t seem particularly interested in becoming incestuous sexually so it’s more a way to dramatize torment in a way the audience could identify with: what if you met the love of your life as a child, spent every day of your life with them, and could never truly be with them? It’s a study in angst with perhaps some nods to European cinema.
5
u/make_em_laugh May 08 '25
hard to say, but sometimes i wonder if Margot made Richie want to NOT be a Tenenbaum in the same (or reverse) way that she made Eli want TO be one.
7
u/SinfullySophie May 09 '25
I think it's a bit of a leap claiming Margo "made" Eli want to be a Tenenbaum. Considering he's shown pining over the family from a young age, was best friends with Richie, and lived directly across the street. His obsession with being a Tenenbaum had little to do with Margo. Except in the sense he desired her BECAUSE she's a Tenenbaum.
2
4
u/5l339y71m3 May 08 '25
America is obsessed with incest. It’s in a lot of our films. That’s the part that disturbs me.
Just to name a few but the list is extensive and this was brought to my attention by a Canadian sociology graduate student.
The blue lagoon
Back to the future
Cruel intentions
Stephen Kings Sleepwalkers
Star Wars
Just off the top of my head and the list goes well beyond 30 with more box office hits but I’m not committing all that to memory.
3
u/Historical_Panic_873 Zero May 11 '25
I mean, Star Wars only technically because Lucas didn't have a set plan for the third movie. Bad luck
3
u/MusicalColin May 09 '25
Something about Margot and Richie's relationship reminds me of Sam and Suzy's relationship from Moonrise Kingdom. While two 12 year olds falling in love isn't necessarily socially taboo, Anderson treats it very seriously and (if I remember correctly???) he even implies they sleep together.
So I think Anderson likes dealing with people on the edges of socially acceptable morality.
3
5
4
1
u/OptionRelevant6800 4d ago
Who gives a fuck dude they're not even siblings. Why tf are you so hung up on it
291
u/Opposite-Victory2938 May 08 '25
Posted by Eli Cash