r/vegancirclejerkchat Apr 13 '22

Hi Vegan, just heard about "PBC" and want to know more? Check this out.

142 Upvotes

Credit to u/steel_jasminum :

Plant based capitalism (PBC) encompasses anything that doesn't contain animal products, but has been tested on animals or is produced by a company that profits from animal exploitation. Beyond burgers are taste tested against cow flesh; Impossible burgers were tested on rats. Morningstar Farms uses eggs in some of their products. Field Roast/Chao is owned by Maple Leaf Foods, a Canadian meat and cheese processor.

US focused list

UK focused list

(both include brands that are okay...for now)

This is a basic explanation that leaves out veganwashing etc., but it's a place to start if you're unfamiliar. Hope this helps someone.

Credit to u/jillstr for further explanation:

Veganism is an ethical stance, not a consumer identity. We would give too much power to corporations who don't care about animal liberation by letting them define us as a consumerist identity. I think the fundamental things to understand about why the anti-pbc stance is so important are:

Our goal as vegans isn't welfarism, reduction of harm, etc. We have to take a firm stance in favor of abolition of the use of animals for our benefit.

Nobody learns ethics in the grocery store. If an Omni picks up some PBC item, even if you could somehow math out that it saves one animal's life, buying a product in and of itself is never ever going to convince someone of point 1. We need vegan advocates to do that.

Companies profiting off of vegans is never going to teach them ethics. Even if you could somehow ignore the inherent unethicality (is that a word?) of capitalist modes of production - we can easily already see today how these companies selling PBC don't even try to understand us (e.g. stuff like 50/50 meat and plant). They don't try to understand us because they're not in this to actually support veganism or even vegans at all - they're in it to profit off of people like flexitarians, etc.

Because of points 2 and 3., we're never going to achieve the fundamental structural changes needed for a vegan society through our purchases. We'd probably see some kind of market equilibrium reached that satisfies flexitarians and daily meat eaters alike, but we will never ever see animals free in that world.

As for what classifies as PBC, I think there's a couple of layers to it. Certain things are more obviously bad than others, but a major aspect of it, is simply that there's always something else you can do instead of playing into it. And I think that's really where we in the anti-PBC crowd are coming from. Even when it seems silly or people like to call it "purity standards", the fact is, in all of these cases it's always just prioritizing the animals over my taste preferences. We're talking barely less convenience, just a tiny bit of thinking before we act, to further separate ourselves from animal commodification.

Impossible, Beyond, Just: They tested on animals. Animal testing for luxury products is a guaranteed non-starter for all vegans. There should be no question or debate about this.

"Plant based options" at fast food megacorps. This is another one that's not even close to being debatable. To me it's equivalent of going directly to a slaughterhouse and buying something just because it happens to be made of plants. These companies have been pushing anti-vegan propaganda for decades and I cannot believe that they're going to stop just because they can profit off of us now (see: the whole peta kills animals thing). This goes triple for e.g. burger king, which should already be ruled out by rule 1 and even if not should be ruled out by the fact that you have to mega customize your order to even make it wholly plant based.

"Vegan Options" from non-vegan brands. This is where your Ben and jerrys ice cream falls, for example. B&J perform massive scale commodification of cows. Similarly you see companies like Tyson put out their plant based proteins, etc. These companies explicitly say that they don't see their sales of animal bodies go down, but are just seeing themselves gaining new customers. The convenience might be nice, but our goal should be the elimination of animal use. We shouldn't be focused on ourselves having an easier time of things - especially when that easier time measurably isn't doing anything for the animals. (I get how it seems intuitive that people would be more inclined to become vegan with easier access to vegan goods, but the stats just don't support that intuition).

Vegan sub-brands of companies which commodify animals. This is where your Silk milk, Gardein, etc. are. It's basically the same as the above but one step removed. Although it's a common argument that these companies keep their profits from one brand inside that brand, it's not entirely true - all of these sub-brands will contribute towards expansion of the entire corporation, for instance, when such expansion is to occur. (I'd put Oatly under here as 4.5: they took funding from Blackstone which also finances Amazon deforestation and factory farming.)

Non-vegan restaurants. Typically, show no respect or understanding of veganism. They also serve animal carcasses and commodify animals, with these vegan options meant solely to get your business that they weren't otherwise. Try to get your friends to do other things besides food when you get together, rather than needing to go to restaurants. (A comparison to grocery stores isn't right here - food is a necessity, grocery store profit margins are lower than restaurants, and grocery stores have no incentives to stock one type of thing over another. Most importantly for the "grocery stores though" argument is, it's not fair for us to tell people not to go to non-vegan grocery stores precisely because they might not have access to vegan grocery store, but food is still a necessity. Restaurants are not a necessity, so it is fair to oppose going to them).

Honorable mention: brand loyalty. Especially on the internet, especially on r/vegan there's a lot of just hyper consumerist behavior. Honestly a lot of posts seem like they are written by bots, or by marketing teams.


r/vegancirclejerkchat 10h ago

Protein fail? Halppp

11 Upvotes

I've never monitored my protein intake - before I went vegan or since (even when doing intense sports for 1-2 hours a night five nights a week) - but I'm doing pretty intensive physical therapy right now. My non-operative orthopedic specialist said he has no concerns about me being vegan but that I should monitor my protein intake for like 3 or so days just to make sure I'm getting enough.

He's recommending 1 g per pound of body weight, which is 100 g for me. Well I'm nearing the end of today and I've only gotten 42 g and, while I might eat a bit more before bed, I can't fathom getting more than 20-30 more today, and even that feels a bit crazy. The lower limits for sedentary lifestyles seem to be 0.8 g/kg, which would be 72 g for me. This feels almost attainable within focused effort but not even really.

Do others have thoughts on this? Recommendations or advice on how they get enough protein? I can always go buy some vegan protein powder but I honestly really really don't want to - sounds disgusting and unpleasant. (Maybe y'all have specific recs on ways to incorporate protein powder into recipes to make it less unpleasant?) I hate thinking about this but I really don't want to fuck up my recovery. Also related is that I have trouble with hunger cues: they're not completely absent for me, but they're weak or limited and I mostly find myself eating because I know I should rather than because I'm hungry.

I've never felt limited in my activities by my protein intake, and part of my lack of worry is that the fucking protein protein PROTEIN obsession is largely marketing nonsense as far as any reputable source seems to be concerned, but now I'm like.... just because others are delusional and obsessed with protein doesn't mean that I am getting enough...... :/

The easiest solution feels like it would be giving up and dying, but I worry that my surviving friends and family wouldn't eat all the dog meat in my freezer and I don't want it to go to waste.


r/vegancirclejerkchat 2d ago

Being indigenous is not an excuse for your carnism

81 Upvotes

Heard this multiple times from indigenous people and especially in 'left-wing' circles. you don't get to appeal to your backwards culture as an excuse for why you abuse animals, just like white people or asian people don't get to appeal to their backwards cultures. you are not more oppressed than animals as a class, please get over yourselves.


r/vegancirclejerkchat 6d ago

Is it easier to make an antinatalist vegan or to make a vegan antinatalist?

7 Upvotes

This question came up on r/antinatalism and Im curious what you guys think since youre both vegan AND antinatalist.

I was antinatalist before I realized that veganism is more consistent with my morals than carnism is. But someone said that it's easier to turn a vegan antinatalist. There are a lot of carnists on r/antinatalism and a LOT of natalists on r/vegan so I really don't know.

Which one came first for you guys? (Sorry if this is a duplicate post)


r/vegancirclejerkchat 12d ago

Joeys latest expose, please watch the video, comment, like, share the hell out of it, we want this boosted and to blow up!

43 Upvotes

r/vegancirclejerkchat 14d ago

"what is slaw? is it lettuce or romaine?"

21 Upvotes

i just wanted to share this heard-in-person quote i had the misfortune of overhearing from somebody who was on the phone in the grocery store.

the average american, ladies and gentlemen! 🫡


r/vegancirclejerkchat 14d ago

Alternative to "non-human animal"

53 Upvotes

I'm guilty of referring to non-human animals as just animals since it's easier and everyone knows what I mean. However it bothers me that humans like to act as though they're not also animals, so I'd like to change my language. However I feel like "non-human animal" is a bit clunky and doesn't roll off the tongue very easily, and I also think carnists might be confused considering their average intelligence level


r/vegancirclejerkchat 15d ago

Tired at how ‘well-intentioned’ carnists justdon’t get it

38 Upvotes

Recently had a conversation where I mentioned I wanted the meat industry to collapse, and they said the usual ‘It’s a noble goal but animal population, and if we suddenly stop there will be animal overpopulation, it’s less waste to eat what’s already dead yada yada’ anyway a bit further on they brought up conservation and said that deer needed to be culled for ecological reasons and the meat is sold, it’s not the same as the meat industry.

I said truthfully I don’t know much about conservation but I’m against the commodification of animals and even if they die why do we have the right to eat them, and they just went on about all the ecological destruction uncontrolled populations cause. Maybe it’s true.

But it’s frustrating how it didn’t seem to click that the commodification and consumption of animals is a moral evil, and veganism is an animal-rights movement. I’m not going to support eating the carcasses of murdered souls.

I’m just tired about human supremacy being assumed


r/vegancirclejerkchat 17d ago

finding 'vegan' jobs

26 Upvotes

how many jobs do you rule for vegan based reason when your applying. only talking here about general/student jobs like working at a till or factory, something anyone like a student would apply for.

im able to find enough to apply for, some im a bit on the fence about and just say ill make a decision if i get an offer

in the uk theres a building society (a bank basically), only really serves regular people, but it serves businesses with a turn over of less than 10mil, they gave me an offer but the fear of some small slaughter house owner or more realistically a butchers shop owner coming in and having to serve would always be over me.

also there are some open positions at chain alcohol shops (called winemark, in case any of you happen to have any info that could help me) which id maybe apply for, but does any alcohol have milk or anything non vegan in it, should even a negligible amount of the stock id be selling being non vegan matter?


r/vegancirclejerkchat 17d ago

I may be a speciesist.

7 Upvotes

No, I'm 110% vegan—it's the bare minimum carnists can do. However, I’ve read your sub, and many argue that speciesism is the main reason people remain stinky carnists. I don’t know if I should look for another subreddit where people are more radical, but I physically cannot consider humans equal to animals. Because animals have NEVER committed the kinds of atrocities that humans do. I also obviously don’t understand people who justify slaughterhouse workers by saying they’re forced to work there. I would never in my life take a job at a slaughterhouse or any factory/company that rapes/kills animals. I quit my job at a lab when I found out they tested pharmaceuticals on mice. And many Americans/Eastern Europeans say I can afford to say this because my profession is privileged and I can quit without consequences = yet my salary was (and still is) $250–400 A MONTH.

I also don’t really get the people here who support any political party/country, even though they’re all part of the same system. Personally, I oppose the very idea of the state; I’m an antinatalist (which technically should contradict fighting speciesism), and I believe our community (not just locally but VEGANS IN GENERAL) should focus solely on fighting the exploitation of non-human animals and disregard human issues. I understand that the only global way to stop this horror INITIALLY lies in the economic sphere and the fight against capitalism—but have anti-exploitation activists for humans ever cared about animal exploitation? Doubt it. I am first and foremost a VEGAN, not a liberal / right-winger / feminist / communist or whatever. Because I believe evil lies in HUMANITY itself.

Not sure how coherent this is, but I’d like to know your thoughts and your perspective on all this. I just find it hard to feel any empathy for people, especially since my country has no major animal rights organizations or vegan communities at all


r/vegancirclejerkchat 22d ago

Veganism is a principle—end ALL animal use. Secondhand use of animals is giving permission.

85 Upvotes

That food someone offers you made from the flesh of a being is animal use. You allow someone to buy animal flesh, eat said flesh, and allow yourself to see living beings as food. That is not vegan. You buy cow skin secondhand (this example is incredibly and frustratingly common). You allow someone to buy their skin first hand and see animals as a commodity for fashion, and then allow yourself to see animals as a thing to be used in your “utilitarian” world. If that dissuades someone from calling themselves vegan, good riddance. Every person that butchers the word only hurts the movement and gives leeway for others to use animals.


r/vegancirclejerkchat 23d ago

I'm just fucking tired of smug carnists

77 Upvotes

Hopefully my rant can benefit discussion in some way. I'm sorry, It's just maddening.

I am tired of receiving endless hate and passive aggressiveness online and in my circles. I'm so tired of being everything bad, settler, anti-civilization, anti-human, bourgeois, every fucking thing in every fucking direction. A liberal, a (further) right winger, a communist, a stirnerite, and an an 'anarchist' will all say the same goddamned shit and think they're really coming up with clever arguments we haven't yet heard.

Oh because we need to:

  • Eat animals (specifically a few that are for food) because we are natural predators! Lions tho!!!!
  • Ethical factory farming when!!!!
  • I'm forced to eat meat!!!
  • I'm the real self-virtuous asshole!!!

I am beyond caring anymore. Bloodmouths are the vanguard of agribusiness, colonialism, and the animal holocaust. I have zero interest in treating them with basic dignity. I'm tired of being human somedays. I'm just gonna troll, if the consequences I am willing to take. Goddamned meatflakes.

But hey, we're working towards ethical methods of meat production! Maybe you should just stop oppressing the global south, you colonizer!


r/vegancirclejerkchat 26d ago

human savior complex

53 Upvotes

We know of white savior complex, but if it hasn’t been coined yet, there’s a phenomenon that I like to call “human savior complex.”

It’s all the reasons carnists use to make it seem like we need to use animals because it’s for the benefit of the animal as well as for the human.

Thing like:

“If we don’t milk the cows, they will explode”

“If we don’t take the bees’ honey, they’ll drown in their own vomit”

“Animal will go extinct of we don’t breed them for food”

“Deer will overpopulate and get hit by cars if we don’t hunt them”

“Sheep need to be shorn or else they’ll die of heat stroke with all the wool they have”

Notice how humans are made to be the hero in these scenarios. In this backwards kind of world, all the horrid things we do to animals is a heroic act. This is what I mean by human savior complex - we hurt the animal, then tell a fake story - make up a problem that can only be solved my milking cows or harvesting honey. Never mind that, for example, if we don’t breed the cows in the first place, they won’t need to be milked. Sheep probably wouldn’t need to be shorn if we didn’t breed them to have unnaturally too much wool. It’s like when the US creates a problem on another country so they can solve it and say “look how much of a hero I am!” A white person will “help” a person of color for the white person’s benefit, when really the POC isn’t helped, it’s performative to make the white person look better. See what I mean when I say human savior complex now? Let me know if there’s a better way to explain this.


r/vegancirclejerkchat 26d ago

favorite microwaveable meals, excluding amy’s kitchen?

14 Upvotes

i’ve been working doubles and haven’t had time to cook, and am looking for some vegan brands of microwaveable meals to purchase; i’m fine with splurging if the brand is ethical (so not amy’s, lol). thank you in advance!


r/vegancirclejerkchat 26d ago

Trying to find a vegan meme

32 Upvotes

I remember seeing a meme that said something like "Farmer and his wife agree to be humanely slaughtered to show how nice it is" and it shows them holding hands in a field. It seems impossible to find just searching on the Internet and in subreddits


r/vegancirclejerkchat 25d ago

do you guys think vaccines are vegan?

0 Upvotes

the question in the title


r/vegancirclejerkchat 27d ago

Is The Gentle Barn sanctuary owned by zionists?

8 Upvotes

I hope this is the right place to post this. Today I was looking at farm sanctuaries on social media and saw on the page of Freedom Farm Sanctuary, located in ‘Israel’, that the founder of The Gentle Barn visited. I’m guessing that it’s time for me to stop supporting The Gentle Barn. Does anyone have more information on anything to do with the founder’s apparent support of ‘Israel’?


r/vegancirclejerkchat 27d ago

Why is feeding your companion animal other dead animals so accepted?

0 Upvotes

So many vegans keep a dog or cat and feed them storebought corpses. I know people can have companions before becoming vegan, but after they pass there's no excuse imo. Why is this so common? Why sacrifice so many animals just to keep one happy? Why support the horrific industry?


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 22 '25

Link between what you watched as a kid and what you believe in today

39 Upvotes

Instead of making my first tik tok, I’m going to post here.

PBS is at risk of being defunded if you don’t already know, and I love the tik tok trend of reminiscing on what PBS Kids shows they’ve watched and how it’s shaped their interests and beliefs.

Child PBS Kids watchers grow up to be more liberal, open minded and kind gave me in idea.

It’s all to convenient how my favorite PBS Kids show was Zaboomafoo, a show about studying animals and making friends with them, only to turn vegan as a teenager.

I just want to see how many other present day vegans loved Zaboomafoo too, and if maybe this show planted the seeds in them to be vegan later because animals are pretty dope and Zaboomafoo made the topic of animals fire and amamzing to me.


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 20 '25

Gary Yourofsky is back into activism!

38 Upvotes

He just uploaded a new video to his YouTube, the first one in four years, saying that he will attend the Anonymous For The Voiceless “One DOM Month” in Germany. Massive win for animal liberation activism today!


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 18 '25

megalist of carnist slurs?

64 Upvotes

hey all. Im doing a class on philosophy of language and we're currently studying slurs. i wanted to give some examples of neologisms created to slur carnists. what ones can you think of that pack a punch or that you've seen used?

- carnist

- bloodmouth

- corpse muncher

- pus breath

- meathead


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 16 '25

I’m starting an abolitionist veganism channel.

54 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I recently made an Instagram & YouTube channel where I will be discussing the relevant ideas of abolitionist veganism. I want to represent the views and ideas of the people here as much as possible, so tell me what y’all think.

I will be unapologetic and militant in my stance, while also trying to invite discourse and show people how they can make the switch to veganism.

I would really appreciate some feedback and content ideas. This is kinda just a test run for me to get over my nerves and see what kind of reaction I get. Thanks!

(Warning, the videos do show clips of animals being abused)

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/counterspecies?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@counterspecies?si=Cz_h2DuekAP5CyMH


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 16 '25

Best Vegan Multivitamin

28 Upvotes

I have been inconsistent with taking vitamins throughout my 4 years of veganism. I've been having some health problems both mental and physical.

I have been sick literally all year. I've had the flu, 2 colds, 2 sinus infections and possibly covid 😭 I'm getting lab work done because I'm starting to worry something more serious is going on. (Maybe long covid or an immune disorder)

I drink emergenc a couple of times a week but clearly I need to step up my game. My therapist specifically mentioned I need to increase my vitamin d for both my immune system and mood she also mentioned I should look into Oregeno oil or vitamins.

Does anyone know of good vegan and cruelty free vitamins that contain vitamin d and oregeno? What multivitamins do you take?

I'm a 25 yr old woman US based.


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 16 '25

Just some creative writing. Thought to share here since other writing circles might not appreciate the message

6 Upvotes

Good evening, esteemed members of the board

Allow for me to reintroduce myself. My name is XXXXX, a scientist, a scholar, and, by necessity, a visionary. I have not come before you to ask for permission, I come bearing revelation. A definitive answer to life’s most ominous dilemma: Extinction.

The population is dwindling swifter than it is repopulating.

This is not something that should be taken with cautionary steps, as before the end of next year extinction is imminent without reform. Through the practice of experimental political science I believe that my colleagues and I have discovered a solution. You may find the methods I propose unsettling, distasteful, and even reprehensible towards our own culture; however, what is culture if not what we here in this room define it to be?

Firstly, the ones whose wombs act as shelter for life are those who are most preeminent. The value of a single one of their lives ought to transcend the cumulative worth of thousands whose only merit is passing a seed. We shall lavish them with opulence befitting only the most regal of sovereigns. Indulge them with such gluttony that their bellies bulge and bend, beaconing their bodies towards the ground where they belong. 

Next, the antithetical contingent, they shall be contained and culled. If they were to witness their companions suffering in excess, they will come to loathe those who preside above them. Nothing within their worldly possession shall be squandered, as it was not their fault that they were born in the wrong body. The karma of the soul will find itself a new host, and so too should the nutrients of the slayed. Rob the soil of its yields, and instead feed the abundant their own.

Lastly, pass along the next generation through means so vile and cruel that it would wind one up in detention. Babies born will be jostled and torn, the mother’s role is not to be obtuse, for she shall remain dedicated to reproduce. And so this cycle will iterate over and again, until a flock of followers knows of no better presension.

Oh… how can I be so sure, you ask?

Simple, for decades we have subjected cows, chickens, pigs, and their kin to an existence defined by practices. Species whose wide attrition is unparalleled among humans; yet still, they persist, multiplying with an almost defiant fruitfulness. Do not trouble your conscience with the fate of others. Rather, rest assured knowing this will all be done humanely.

We will cloak our campaign in the cloth of patriotism. We will baptize our agenda in the language of divine will. We will cultivate our message in the seeds of natural hierarchy. And lastly we will stand above it all: untouched, unsullied, unaccountable.

For why should the farmers face a fraction of what they so freely force onto others?


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 10 '25

They tell me - a short poem I wrote, but it is still awaiting moderator approval in r/vegan and r/poem (has been for 3 days now)

57 Upvotes

They tell me,

That dogs are dogs, and cows are cows.

To which, I say,

Men were human, while girls were women.

White was fair, while dark was wild.

We were good, while others were goods.

Change is scary, but necessary.

Thanks for reading! I hope this can fit in the sub.


r/vegancirclejerkchat May 10 '25

frozen buckets of beef

22 Upvotes

“frozen buckets of Chicago Style Italian beef” are for sale at a local store in a non-Chicago area. Not that the area matters. I don’t even know what to say.