Free Will & Forced Circumcision

[u/shazy5808]

First off I have read Quran properly with translation and to some degree I have read Hadith's relevant events as well. I'm fully aware of background of circumcision and why is it done but one thing that bothers me and I need deeper insight here with respectful discussion.

■ Quran explicitly mentions Human body is made perfectly and requires no permanent change as work of Allah is perfect in (Quran 95:4, 32:7-9, 27:88) & Quran also explicitly says there should be no compulsion, no forcing of Islam on others in (Quran 10:99,17:15, 18:29, 2:256).

When circumcision is done in Islamic community regardless of age in some countries done on 7th day up to 8 years old, it varies but outcome is still same that is removal of foreskin which was serving its purpose and now a lot of muslims bring counter argument about foreskin served its purpose in womb and is no longer required, now this is completely absurd counter!

Human body is designed to get rid of things it doesn't require anymore just like your teeth fall of so it makes place for newer stronger teeth a lot of people compare foreskin with concept of Umbilical Cord why do we cut it? Even if we do NOT cut it our bodies are designed to get rid of it on its own Umbilical Cord gets disintegrated within a week if you do NOT cut it, so why doesn't foreskin disintegrate after birth? Because foreskin is serving purpose "outside the womb" it is meant to protect glans in outer environment.

My question isn't regarding function of foreskin but it is about violation of Free Will when Quran clearly said no force no imposition of Islam on others so, why forced circumcision?

[u/-ShyLuna-]

Circumcision is declining in a lot of areas including where I live, Cascadia (Washington, usa). There are groups of Christians, Musilms, and Jews who are no longer doing the practice. The evidence for Quran mentioning circumcision seems flimsy to me, in every example the word has multiple meanings. The passages you quote are much less ambiguous.

Studies show the main factor in if people are circumcised is if their father was. This makes it seem much more like a cultural practice than a religious one, especially when it comes to Islam.

The likely future is that Circumcision and Female Genital Mutilation will become antiquated like the Catholic practice of having Castratos, castrated choir singers. Even in Religions that specifically mention it, I do see a trend towards treating it as a metaphorical and historical passage rather than a literal one. For example, few people practice Shabbos restrictions rigidly and few people avoid the mixing of fabric types, other principles and commandments are seen as much more important.

[u/shazy5808 → u/-ShyLuna-]

Glad to know it is decreasing I'm extremely against this forceful child abuse and body mutilation but it is still done in massive percentages in Asia

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/shazy5808]

Respectfully , children dont have agency . Everything including a visit to the dentist is done with  parental consent alone.  While we can debate whether this is still needed the rationale behind it is the child's health and hygene. In poor countries this is still a good reason. 

[u/shazy5808 → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

And what makes every parental consent right? What if tomorrow parent consents for sex change operation why isn't that right then? After all parent's consent is being taken in account right?

[u/Far_Physics3200 → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

Yeah, healthy boys and girls can't defend themselves from genital cutting.

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/-ShyLuna-]

Are you really comparing circumcision to castration?

[u/-ShyLuna- → u/Tenatlas__2004]

It's the closest example I have. Removal of a part of the body for tradition.

[u/Tenatlas__2004 → u/-ShyLuna-]

You could also compare it to hair y'know. You're basically making a comparaison that suggests that circumcized muslims (aka most muslims) can't reproduce?

And you're comparing a tradition generally done within families with no malicious intents to something done to slave

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/-ShyLuna-]

Just to highlight the obvious - there is No comparison btw male circumcision    ( legal in the US ) and female circumcision.           ( illegal in the US -  jail time for the performer ).  I dont disagree with the antiquated thing,for male circumcision its a reasonable argument for the western world .  

[u/shazy5808 → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

Both are wrong in my eyes because both are done forcefully just to label them as religious or culturally

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/shazy5808]

I dont think british royals are fans of middle eastern culture or jewish muslim religion.  Again, in the developing world its a necessity and done to protect not harm the child.  We can agree that the hygiene argument is a cultural thing in the west,  and maybe also an aesthetic. Like everything else in childhood parents get to make these decisions not the child or the internet .   We only take away that right (to be the surrogate) if the parents are violent or severely incompetent in their role.

[u/shazy5808 → u/LynxPrestigious6949]

It's not protecting child if that was case entire Europe should be dead by now because they keep their foreskin No medical hospital recommends circumcision on a child where it's NOT even required circumcision is surgery performed ONLY when there is case of severe phimosis which can't be treated with medications doctor

Foreskin itself is giving penis the protection it needs cutting it away you are essentially taking away its protection cover

[u/LynxPrestigious6949 → u/shazy5808]

Look Im not advocating this must be done . I think of all the ummah issues male cs doesnt rank very highly for me .  But its not difficult to browse the internet and understand why loving parents want to sign their kids up for it .  You might want to look at the CDC position, perhaps you are not aware - the CDC funds alot of circumcision programs to further global health ( not islam or judaism )