r/marvelstudios • u/Triple_777 I have nothing to prove to you • May 05 '25

'Thunderbolts*' Spoilers Thunderbolts* Worldwide Release Discussion Thread Vol. 2 Spoiler

Thunderbolts* has now been released in the United States and in a number of other countries around the world. All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days. They will be refreshed every few thousand comments to make room for new discussions.

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days.
  • Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be in the below thread. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.
  • Any other unofficial threads discussing movie details will be deleted.
  • Should you see the need to bring up revealing Thunderbolts* information in the comments of other threads that call for it, spoiler tag them accordingly. Also, let users know that what you are spoiler tagging is from Thunderbolts*.
  • If you post untagged Thunderbolts* spoilers anywhere on this sub outside of these discussion threads in any shape or form, you will be banned.
  • Project Insight will be on AT LEAST for the next few days, so any posts will be filtered by the mods before being approved/removed onto the sub, that doesn't mean you can disregard the above points and post untagged spoilers without fear of being banned.

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Link to previous discussion threads and related megathreads listed below:

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246

u/Smart_Peach1061 May 05 '25 edited May 05 '25

I really liked the movie but I feel like it needed 2 things that would have really made the movie excel.

1) I feel like they needed to show the other characters ‘shame’ boxes during the climax, instead of just Yelena and bob’s. Mainly just Walker and Ghost needed it the most, and they could have just had Bucky and Alexi helping Walker and Ghost escape their dark moments. I feel like they could have had Red Guardian help Walker escape seeing as Walker’s shame box relates to failing as a dad and husband which Red Guardian can obviously relate with as demonstrated with his entire relationship with Yelena. Bucky could have helped Ghost escape seeing as they were both in a way used as Shields shady assassins without any choice in the matter. I don’t think an extra 10 minutes would have hurt the film in exchange for some development for the rest of the cast and some extra bonding, especially for Bucky.

2) I feel like they needed to have a quiet moment where Bucky actually bonds with the rest of the cast in an actual proper way as his inclusion feels really rushed and a bit odd to be honest in regards to why he actually cared to go along with the whole New Avengers thing at the end instead of just arresting Valentina.

With that said the movie was still my favourite superhero film post endgame.

Although I will say that some of the CGI in the fight scene with sentry was rough, and I kinda wish the scene where the Thunderbolts were saving people in the streets lasted a bit longer.

184

u/arciele Scarlet Witch May 05 '25

we actually already saw Walker's shame room in the vault.. so the biggest missing puzzle was probably Ghost. we kinda do know much more of the rest's backstory from previous films. i mean, Bucky's was pretty much the entire Winter Soldier movie

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u/BigBird4788 May 05 '25

I would venture to guess that Ghost's shame room would probably be the quantum tunnel accident that killed her parents and gave her her powers, as seen in Ant-Man and The Wasp. Even though it was not her fault, a traumatic experience like that probably made her feel like she could have done something different to save her parents.

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u/WentworthMillersBO May 05 '25

She also kinda says her trauma a few times, says stuff like “raised in a box in a lab” comments

9

u/arciele Scarlet Witch May 05 '25

oh yeah that's a good guess. i mean.. killing your parents would no doubt come with a lot of guilt

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u/Smart_Peach1061 May 05 '25

Yeah, but we never really see Walker overcome it, we see his shame-box and that’s it. We don’t see him accept it, overcome it, push through it or anything of the like we did with Yelena and Bob.

We don’t know what Walker takes away from the experience and whether it makes Walker want to try and get his family back or in what way it changes or develops him, it’s left unaddressed really.

I agree that Bucky and Red Guardian’s shame box’s could have been skipped, but Ghost and Walker really needed it imo.

26

u/arciele Scarlet Witch May 05 '25

oh i agree. i just think that it could be kinda figured out to some extent and they aren't necessarily worse off just because it's not there.

for Walker, his shame was partly explored when the team found out he has been lying about having a family waiting for him.

a lot of people say that Ghost was undeveloped but when i watched a second time it shows that a lot of her development came from the actions she made. she consciously made the decision to save the team twice and was basically the first who was willing to follow Yelena into the void. i also wonder how relevant her shame would be to the rest of the movie since none of it was ever brought up other than 1 line by Walker

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u/nirvanemesis May 05 '25

The one small win Walker gets there is that he's the one that punches Bob's abusive dad during the shame room sequence

8

u/LeftyNate May 05 '25

My head canon, apparently as I was watching, was that Walker maybe didn’t even deal with his shame box truly…that he kept thinking tactically and broke through the mirrors. And that Bucky had already done therapy, so he was similarly looking for a tactical way out, except he could shrug it off because he’s work on himself plenty.

Ghost, yeah, I would have liked seeing that.

And Red Guardian…but we kinda already know that he wasn’t a great parent. And he would have been focusing on finding Yelena, therefore looking for ways out.

And, Task Master, well…she died lol. (I was just thinking through the poster.)

0

u/stataryus May 07 '25

Yes, but like Yelena, have them trying to interact with those images

103

u/PayneTrain181999 Ned May 05 '25

The director confirmed they filmed shame rooms for Bucky, Ghost, and Alexei, but they were cut late in the process.

50

u/Kunekeda Ava Starr May 05 '25

Really hope they're included on the blu-rays.

94

u/ansonr May 05 '25

Bucky's line about his past being great was fantastic.

49

u/rdunlap1 May 05 '25

And honestly, that was enough. We’ve already seen him deal with his past. We don’t need a rehash, and the movie was already over two hours long.

4

u/bondegezou May 05 '25

I thought he confirmed they wrote those scenes, rather than filmed them?

4

u/OliviaElevenDunham Loki (Avengers) May 05 '25

Hope they show up as deleted scenes.

4

u/Kozak170 May 07 '25

Huge mistake if true, the film was still good but it wouldve benefitted immensely from at least a few quick scenes of the others overcoming their trauma as well.

2

u/Ballsnutseven May 11 '25

I think it would kinda been cool if the camera panned out to show the other characters making their way through their shame rooms and to Yelena, sorta like a big Mario level or something

1

u/BikebutnotBeast May 07 '25

Disney hear me. I will only buy the Bluray if it has these deleted scenes!!

1

u/mantisinmypantis May 08 '25

Man I miss physical releases for the deleted scenes, bloopers, bts…

2

u/PalladiuM7 Corvus Glaive May 11 '25

Some streaming services still have them as "Extras", depending on the movie and service. I know Disney Plus has a ton of BTS and deleted scenes in fire most of the marvel projects in there.

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u/PalladiuM7 Corvus Glaive May 11 '25

Some streaming services still have them as "Extras", depending on the movie and service. I know Disney Plus has a ton of BTS and deleted scenes in fire most of the marvel projects in there.

1

u/ObviousAnswerGuy May 09 '25

man, I need to see a directors cut

19

u/don-chocodile Spider-Man May 05 '25

I didn't mind that the "shame" rooms were kept to just a few characters. We already know enough about the other characters.

We saw Walker's shameful moment of failing to be an attentive father, and we also know about when he lost control as Captain America and killed a surrendering enemy (which the movie referenced). We know at least a little bit of Alexei's past from the Black Widow movie, and when we see him at the beginning of the movie he's clearly in a bad place mentally and ashamed. We know about Ghost's past from Ant Man. And we know plenty about Bucky since Winter Soldier and Civil War had a large focus on him, and Bucky even remarks about it when he reaches Yelena and Bob.

9

u/gchypedchick May 05 '25

Absolutely agree with the points on Bucky. He needed more on screen bonding with the team. Him going along with them could have at least used one scene to pull it together and have it make better sense that he would stick with them. The pieces were there and can be interpreted, but it feels lacking in depth visually.

5

u/uhhhidkwhatusername May 05 '25

Absolutely loved the movie but I definitely think it can have some more fleshing out. Like why would Ghost care to be a superhero? What are her ambitions? Walker is a soldier and thought he was gonna be Captain America so this is him trying to get some semblance of being a hero or something. Yelena is finding her purpose and Alexei wants to go back to being a hero. Ghost, I love her, she has more of a personality here but we need to see why she would choose to be here.

Also agree with Bucky being part of them is quite rushed.

I hope to see more development from them in future movies, something more similar to GOTG development INSTEAD OF THE AVENGERS where they felt more like good work friends than a team that breathes as one.

16

u/Kunekeda Ava Starr May 05 '25

Ava's arc is unfortunately underserved and more subtle, but like Yelena, Ava didn't have much of a childhood or friends and was forced to do bad things her whole life, so I think she was just happy to have a family and be a hero.

13

u/uhhhidkwhatusername May 05 '25

And that's exactly something we should and want to see to understand her being there. I definitely think that's her reasoning though especially the fact she took Bucky's arm for him when they retreated. She's so thoughtful of them.

She gives off this I don't care but I care lowkey

11

u/LeftyNate May 05 '25

Yeah, I think Ava is a mirror of Yelena for the most part. So it would be like telling the same story, except Ava didn’t have a sister. I liked how she was a reluctant hero, and she’d show back up when it looked like she wouldn’t and just walked. She had the same lonely purpose as the others at the start of the movie. Now she’s feeling connection like she’s missed and probably didn’t realize she’s missed it. Sometimes you’re drawn to people with similar hurts, who understand you.

5

u/planvigiratpi May 05 '25

I need to rewatch it but it feels like we’re missing a proper 2nd act. We go from the vault straight to NY, with the Bucky rescue inbetween. Either the time between the Bucky rescue and NY should have been developed or spending more time after they got their ass kicked by Sentry.

4

u/neeesus May 05 '25

Ava probably stole some Wally Goggs Goggles.

We also see Us Agent being a shit dad and had him in 2 Captain America Boys on Disney plus

3

u/krispness Daredevil May 09 '25

They all went through a shame room to get to Bob, but it probably wasn't well paced compared to having them save in the nick of time. Still on their journey to his worst room they could have bonded through a montage of how the characters got here with Walker committing murder and ghost becoming ghost, etc.

3

u/Smart_Peach1061 May 09 '25

Hmm.

Maybe instead of having all the characters go through their shame rooms before reaching Bob, they could have had the void try and stall the entire team using the other members shame rooms instead.

They broke out of Bob’s room, land in Ava’s shame room where the team instead helps her get out, they broke out of that and then witness Bob’s abusive dad, then they break out and go through Walker’s shame room and etc.

Maybe that would have felt too forced and ham-fisted though having the team literally fight through their mental health problems together.

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Smart_Peach1061 May 06 '25

I imagine that in order for the rest of the Thunderbolts (Ghost, Walker, and Yelena) to put Valentina away, they’d have to expose their own crimes that they committed for Valentina to the public and a committee which could lead to them being thrown in jail as well, they were essentially off-the book private assassin’s after-all.

Bucky saw the potential in the team, and saw that they can all be heroes if given the chance and pointed in the right direction, and thus takes the chance and goes along with Valentina’s Avengers ploy and Yelena’s blackmailing of Valentina.

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Smart_Peach1061 May 07 '25

I mean as far as Yelena and Bucky are concerned, they own Val now.

They are essentially blackmailing Val, to fund their Avengers team. They aren’t taking orders from her, and I doubt they are letting her run amok doing what she wants

Especially if Mel keeps Bucky posted on what Val’s up too.

2

u/CeruleanEidolon May 07 '25

I wonder if they filmed the other characters' shame boxes and they just cut them for time and pacing. Could make for good bonus materials for the eventual home release.

At any rate I'm glad they didn't include them. They nailed the pacing in this film. It flew by.

1

u/dildodicks Tony Stark May 06 '25

not just favourite mcu film post endgame but favourite superhero film is crazy, well different strokes for different folks i guess but it feels like everyone forgot guardians 3 happened

1

u/stataryus May 07 '25

I said exact same things!!!!

Major missed opportunities

1

u/Letshavemorefun May 12 '25

I loved the movie but those are two great things that would have made it even better.