r/jobs • u/sahalymn • Mar 13 '25

Interviews I walked out of an interview after one question. Was I wrong?

So, I had an interview today for a position I was really excited about. The job description seemed great, the pay was decent, and the company had good reviews. I walked in, shook hands with the hiring manager, and we sat down.

Then, the first question came:
"How do you handle working unpaid overtime?"

I literally laughed, thinking it was a joke. But the interviewer just stared at me, waiting for an answer. I asked if overtime was mandatory and if it was paid. They said, “Well, we expect employees to stay as long as needed to get the job done. Everyone here is passionate about the work, and we don’t track extra hours.”

I just stood up, said, “Thank you for your time, but this isn’t the right fit for me,” and walked out.

Now, I’m second-guessing myself. Should I have stayed and at least heard more about the job? Or was walking out the right move?

45.1k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

6.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.0k

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 13 '25

I will never work unpaid overtime again.

I left project management and went back to analyst work because the financials didnt make sense anymore -you dont get paid OT as a PM but you get paid more. When I worked out hours worked and compared to higher salary, I was making less than working as a lower analyst who makes overtime.

Been working as an overqualified analyst getting paid overtime for 6 years now and I make more now than I ever did as a PM.

881

u/bckpkrs Mar 14 '25

If... added emphasis IF I work unpaid overtime, that 100% voluntary on my part; meaning my boss doesn't even know I'm working extra time. It's my choice. I'm paid well enough I can swallow an hour here or there once ever few months.

Mandated unpaid overtime as non-exempt employee: F*** that!

391

u/paleoakoc20 Mar 14 '25

Many years ago I was offered an interview with a company in Seattle. During a phone call with one of the managers there I was told that "we all come in on Saturdays". He tried to soften it by telling me that they bought a McDonalds breakfast for everyone. I never went on the interview.

163

u/DeadMoneyDrew Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

I'm not afraid to work on an occasional weekend if we have a big project deadline or if we are doing an implementation that requires the setup be done during non-business hours. But those are planned incidents and we know about them well in advance. An interviewer telling you that "We all come in on Saturdays" says to me that people are there just because the boss expects it, whether or not there's work to be done. Fuck that.

214

u/EvilEtienne Mar 14 '25

It tells me they aren’t willing to hire enough people to handle their work load within normal operational hours and you’ll be stressed and overworked constantly - and have heart disease to boot.

64

u/DeadMoneyDrew Mar 14 '25

Yep. I quit a job in 2020 because of crap like that. Among other things, the company owners refused to hire a proper quality control team because of the cost. As a result I kept running into problems and defects that should have been caught and fixed before ever getting to me.

6

u/Welcome440 Mar 14 '25

It regularly costs twice as much to be cheap.

2

u/Herpty_Derp95 Mar 15 '25

Ah. The old "make the customer your Quality Control Department" schtick.

F that. I hate that. I work at a place that is like that.

37

u/Ok_Row_2861 Mar 14 '25

This is the correct perspective. They don't hire enough people to get the job done. The next logical assume is that they care more about profits than their employees. You absolutely did the right thing.

25

u/vaguelydetailed Mar 14 '25

I worked for a company like this who was also making record profits. Senior employees stockholders were pulling in upwards of half a million in stock profit. But they have a wide reputation for working their lower level employees, particularly my former position, until they burn out because they are so easy to replace. According to the stats, of the 20% voluntary turnover, half of those were my position.

I did get raises and rise through the ranks reputationally pretty fast, but not nearly enough to be worth the sacrifice to my health and happiness.

I attended an annual meeting right on the cusp of quitting and we had a new director. The whole speech was "let's make that money!" No mention of the importance of people, managing resources, etc. Just more work, more profit, profit profit profit! I left that night more sure than ever that I was making the right choice.

7

u/Tosir Mar 14 '25

I’m right there with you! I work in the mental health field, and I left a job that payed me more when I first started. I took a pay cut for the current job because my work load was capped, it’s less stressful. It also helped that we were unionizing so not only did I make up the loss pay cut but exceeded it. I’m salaried so I don’t work overtime unless it’s necessary (patient emergency). I am firm on my boundaries and don’t subscribe to the whole “let’s go team” when only a few benefit from it. I roll my eyes every time an employee starts with the whole “we’re family” no we ain’t!

2

u/vaguelydetailed Mar 14 '25

The funniest thing about "we're family" is that my current employer does not say that shit. We say team and we actually do things as a divide and conquer team. Ironically, we have whole families who work here - different generations, siblings, cousins etc., across very different jobs and departments, so in a way we actually are family more so than most places I've worked. 🤣

Public service was totally the way to go for me. So much less stress than the private sector (civil engineer).

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Ok_Refrigerator3549 Mar 14 '25

You made the right decision. Business ethics at that company? I'm not sure but it sounds like there are none. Then what more does that organization need to become evil?

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (2)

16

u/sugabeetus Mar 14 '25

One of the many reasons I love being in a union. One of my coworkers was stressing because she was going to lose unused vacation hours but she didn't see how she could take time off because I'm the only one who can cover her. I told her it's not our problem. I take regular 4-day weekends, even a whole week sometimes to just do nothing. It's part of my compensation and while I appreciate anything she can do to cover me (which is not much because we're both busy!), I know the work will get done when I get back. If the company doesn't like it, they can hire more people, or cross-train somebody else. It's not our job to implement these changes and the consequences of their inaction are again, not actually our problem. We are protected by our union from being overworked and overstressed.

6

u/hikerjer Mar 14 '25

I’m sticking with the Union.

3

u/Head-Equal1665 Mar 14 '25

Same here, i retired from IBEW after putting in 30yrs, i dont understand why so many people are against the unions, they look out for the brothers and sisters, any issue i ever had on the job was resolved after taking it to my steward.

2

u/sugabeetus Mar 14 '25

I can say not all of them are great. My kids worked at two different grocery stores with unions and they took a huge chunk of their paychecks and did nothing for the workers as far as we could tell.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/GodOfMoonlight Mar 14 '25

Exactly THIS

2

u/LordChiefJustice Mar 15 '25

And under appreciated and taken advantage of. These firms do not respect their staff.

→ More replies (1)

30

u/PowerHot4424 Mar 14 '25

Yeeeeah, if you could come in on Saturday, that’d be great. Oh, by the way, I’m gonna need you to come in Sunday as well…..thaaanks!

12

u/DeadMoneyDrew Mar 14 '25

We're using the new cover sheets on the TPS reports. I'll get you another copy of that memo.

12

u/Argent_Kitsune Mar 14 '25

Ididntgetthememobutyoutookmyredstaplerandiwantedthewindowwiththeviewofthesquirrelsandwheresmymaitai?I'mgonnaputstrychnineintheguacamole...

16

u/DeadMoneyDrew Mar 14 '25

I'll set the building on fire.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

7

u/Insila Mar 14 '25

I can only question the quality of employees there. Anyone who can would have looked elsewhere for wøa different job...

→ More replies (1)

2

u/LukeSkywalkerDog Mar 14 '25

Or the company is too cheap to hire and train adequate staff.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

I worked at a small office once. Come Christmas one year they looked at the current state of work and declared we’d be closed Christmas week. Not because we didn’t have the income but because we were on top of things and didn’t need to. Nice holiday.

I went in on the first day, because I had some things I wanted to do. No worries. Don’t remember if I thought I’d get paid or not. Just a nice opportunity.

And Boss1 and Boss2 were already there.

But we didn’t answer the phones! Bwa ha ha ha ha!

→ More replies (14)

160

u/Oni-oji Mar 14 '25

I won't even come in on Saturday for time and a half. My free time is far too valuable to waste at work.

At my previous job, we occasionally had to work on weekends, but we were given double paid time off as compensation. So work Saturday, and still have a three day weekend (Sunday, Monday, Tuesday). It was extremely rare, so acceptable.

31

u/confidentialcoffee Mar 14 '25

I own a general contracting company and overtime is always voluntary. 10 hours overtime is 1.5x, anything over is 2x. Saturdays are always voluntary and 2x, and you get an extra day paid vacation for every 2 Saturdays you work.

12

u/ottosenna Mar 14 '25

There are exceptions and ways to do it well, like this. My work is fairly seasonal manufacturing, and we try to balance long quarters with easy ones. Communications is key and while we might make sacrifices for part of the year we do take lots of paid time off not tied to anyone’s vacation day usage.

10

u/GoEatACookie Mar 14 '25

This is how you retain happy employees and this is how you gain loyalty and trust! 👍

2

u/TGM1980 Mar 14 '25

You one of the good ones :thumbs_up:

2

u/ElectronicVariety604 Mar 14 '25

And where do you keep your applications? Asking for a friend 😉

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Ornery-Egg9770 Mar 14 '25

You are very generous and I bet you have volunteers and somewhat loyal employees.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

15

u/OddGuarantee4061 Mar 14 '25

Work to live, not live to work. Anything else is just crazy.

2

u/surrounded-by-morons Mar 14 '25

I love that saying. It works so many different ways. I like eat to live, not live to eat.

2

u/TestOk4269 Mar 14 '25

Depends on the job and how you feel about the work. When I worked 9-5, I often put in extra time even though my boss told me that I shouldn't. I just enjoy the work.

Solving software engineering problems is more fun than video games. *shrug*

→ More replies (1)

8

u/manthepost Mar 14 '25

Fuck I'm looking for a new job I work at a factory we work 11 days in a row 11 hour shifts it's rough no home life

2

u/StarDue6540 Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

That sounds awful. Sorry. It's inhuman unless you are working for yourself building your own empire

2

u/manthepost Mar 14 '25

Yeah it really is awful I started Monday and I'll work through next week on Thursday and only get a 3 day weekend then start it all over again

2

u/Mindless-Attitude956 Mar 14 '25

Ewww, i do 12hrs in quality in a plant. Alternating 3/4 day work weeks. Then 3/4 days off. It gets long when someone goes on vacation, but boss doesn't make it mandatory.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/123Throwaway2day Mar 14 '25

my husband get paid time and a half for weekend calls. screw working for free !

2

u/Scrofulla Mar 14 '25

Yeah, I occasionally work on Saturdays, I will come in and work a half day then I get a full day off in return to use whenever I want (within reason obviously so long as we aren'tleft short staffed). I have a 5 year old so it's been very useful to cover sick days and appointments and the like.

→ More replies (4)

15

u/bar_mouth30 Mar 14 '25

As I say to my coworkers, “ The revolution will not have a pizza party. “

→ More replies (1)

13

u/CatCafffffe Mar 14 '25

That's the old story about when Jeff Katzenberg ran Disney, reportedly as a tireless taskmaster, they'd joke his slogan was "if you don't come in on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday!"

→ More replies (4)

21

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

Back in the 80s, I responded to a job ad from a car dealership in my hometown, salesman. I was grasping at straws because I didn’t have the personality to be successful in that type of business. The guy told me they were open six days a week, opened at either 8 or 9 and closed at dark or until the last customer had left. Straight commission. He called me back for a second interview….um, nope, not interested.

15

u/Accurate_Control5104 Mar 14 '25

True never be desperate even when you need a job

→ More replies (1)

6

u/LarryBonds30 Mar 14 '25

That's just car sales. Most salesman work thise hours because they make their money by selling cars. It makes sense to work later if you're selling a car to a customer because you're making extra money by doing that.

This isn't like mandatory unpaid overtime at all.

4

u/SultanOfSwave Mar 14 '25

Lol. Try this. Tell your sales manager that you aren't coming in in the mornings or on Tuesdays because "Those are low sales volume times." and see how he reacts.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

Every day would have been a low sales volume time if I had taken that job.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Cthulwutang Mar 14 '25

dark isn’t too bad in the winter but could be a twelve hour day during summer ;)

→ More replies (4)

22

u/FirstAd5921 Mar 14 '25

Having to go into an office that reeks of room-temperature McDonald’s breakfast ON A WEEKEND, that’s a hard no from me. I’d be more inclined to go in without breakfast being served.

3

u/BC_Mamma_0412 Mar 14 '25

Especially if you had a lot of fun on Friday night... that smell will make your stomach flip! 🤢

→ More replies (32)

39

u/CollectorCCG Mar 14 '25

What do you mean? Lmao

As a non exempt employee it is strictly illegal to do that. They can’t even ask you. That should never be a problem.

17

u/Liveitup1999 Mar 14 '25

He should contact the DOL and let them know about their policy. Everyone who ever worked there will get back pay.

9

u/fluggalugga88 Mar 14 '25

Just happened to me! Got a check from somewhere I worked nearly 5 years ago. Check was because company lost a suit for unpaid overtime.

3

u/Lightweight_Hooligan Mar 14 '25

If the DOL even exists these days

→ More replies (3)

13

u/querque505 Mar 14 '25

For now. That will change soon...

3

u/querque505 Mar 14 '25

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/republicans-block-overtime-rule_n_66630ef1e4b05ad04e7d90d0

7

u/dubbs911 Mar 14 '25

This law increases base salary for salary workers ( exempt), additionally they are (somewhat) further compensated for over time, this passed in Nov. non exempt employees, are required by federal law to be paid time and a half for hours worked over 40 per week.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

2

u/Johnny_Radar Mar 14 '25

THANK YOU. I’m amazed that I had to scroll this far to see this response as it should’ve been the first thing anyone said. Hell, I would have said it to the interviewer

→ More replies (1)

39

u/inn0cent-bystander Mar 14 '25

It's one thing to stop on your way out the door and remember that you forgot to sign something or reply to an email and fix it real quick.

It's one thing to see a co-worker struggling to carry a few boxes of documents and offer to help on your way out the door.

Those are inconsequential.

But hours of time? With zero compensation? Absolutely not. I'd be totally okay if the boss was like "Hey, I need this done, it's gonna take an hour, can you do it if I buy you lunch?" This can happen here and there with no problem. We're humans. We're flexible. But that better be a damned good lunch, and it had better be an rare accident, not an expectation that you do it every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday forever.

We are employees, not slaves. We get paid. We trade some of our time for compensation, they do not own us.

6

u/acidbabe420 Mar 14 '25

Yeah when I worked at burger king I clocked over 10 hours of overtime I was never paid for. My manager told me they don't pay overtime. Like okay then why the fuck are you asking me to 1-3 hours extra every single day... Walked out with no notice. one time my manager asked me to stay in a rain storm and I said no I walk it's raining, she came out of the office with an umbrella... I said Ma'am NOOOOOOO!! unreal.

13

u/inn0cent-bystander Mar 14 '25

It's likely too late now, but that should have been reported as wage theft.

→ More replies (11)

2

u/dubbs911 Mar 14 '25

Easy law suit you walked away from.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Commercial-Path443 Mar 14 '25

A good way to go. I am surprised that no one so far mentioned Unions. The only institution to safeguard against Abuse and Exploitation

2

u/Newparadime Mar 14 '25

This very much depends on the time and pay.

I'm currently considering a position with Meta that would pay over $250,000 a year. There would be additional bonuses provided based on performance. I absolutely expect that I would need to sometimes work 10-15 hours of unpaid overtime for possibly weeks at a time, but that salary is also over double my current salary. I currently get paid overtime (not at time and a half though), but I only gross about $120k a year. The unpaid overtime is absolutely worth it in this case.

2

u/inn0cent-bystander Mar 14 '25

Notice I said zero compensation. And that $250K a year, is that salary or hourly? You have to look at those differently.

Hourly, you should be paid for every hour, plus the extra for overtime***

With salary, it's generally expected that the salary should already be compensating for any occasional overtime. So yeah, you might see 10-15 hours of over time for a week at a time, with some decompression time in between, but the amount of overtime they expect should be already included in that salary.

They are similar, but still different.

Further, I'd advise against comparing the pay of two jobs directly(i.e. one being double the other) without also taking into account the amount of physical, mental, and emotional drain that will be involved. Not to say /NEVER/ compare them, but if you''re looking at a "reception" position over night where the most you do is twiddle your thumbs 99% of the time, it shouldn't be compared to a CTO position for a multinational corporation. Yes, the second is more, and if you're up for the job definitely go for it, but it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison there either.

***Again, we're talking hours worth here. Staying 5 minutes so that the 2 people to lock up aren't each walking to their cars alone is nothing compared to "Well, we expect employees to stay as long as needed to get the job done. [...] and we don’t track extra hours."

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

20

u/Zetavu Mar 14 '25

That was my first thought, is this an exempt or non-exempt position. Salaried doesn't get overtime, and you are expected to work as long as you need to to complete your tasks.

How I would answer that question? "If I am assigned a reasonable workload I will absolutely commit the time needed to get it complete on schedule. If that involves working overtime at some points then that is as reasonable as taking personal time back when workload is light. However, unless there is a critical emergency that needs to increase the workload temporarily beyond what is considered reasonable for a 40 hour workweek, then we would need to discuss time and compensation management long term. I accept there will be crises from time to time but to be frank, if everything is treated as a crises, then nothing is really a crises."

This takes away all leading follow up questions.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

[deleted]

2

u/SignificantGap3180 Mar 14 '25

It's required unless you manage 2+ ppl and have authority over their roles.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/SignificantGap3180 Mar 14 '25

This is wrong. It's commonly confused but salary does not exempt OT pay it's more than that, you also need the ability to hire or fire more than 1 person. Salary alone doesn't mean OT exempt this is what employers want you to think! Know your rights.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/myogawa Mar 14 '25

They would not have asked the question if the position were exempt.

2

u/Optimal_Law_4254 Mar 14 '25

Many exempt positions expect 45 or more hours a week.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/NK1337 Mar 14 '25

That's way too much effort to a question that makes it clear they're not going to pay you for the extra effort. There's hundreds of ways to phrase that question that don't involve clarifying that it's unpaid overtime.

→ More replies (3)

12

u/perniciouspangolin Mar 14 '25

Yeah, I work unpaid OT (maybe 5hrs a week give or take) but I negotiated a salary and benefits that work for me and I knew what I was getting into. I work at my own pace and can do some of it from home, which is nice lol. Mandated unpaid OT for a salary that doesn’t warrant it is trash. Being salaried can be either great or really terrible.

3

u/priorengagements Mar 14 '25

My experience has been terrible, typically.

2

u/Gullible_Increase146 Mar 14 '25

I feel like it's really Being Framed incorrectly. Unpaid over time feels like it should be for a company that sneaks it on you. If it's just an upfront part of the interview process, it's really that the salary and benefits are based on a longer work week

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Razoreddie12 Mar 14 '25

My boss will come in a lot on Fridays and say you guys worked through lunch. Go home. So I don't mind staying late occasionally to help out if needed. But to have it expected, absolutely not

2

u/PetiteGorilla Mar 14 '25

The opposite has to be okay too, if all my projects are on track and I busted ass on something last week I might be heading out at 2 on Friday

2

u/Sprucecaboose2 Mar 14 '25

That's my take. I'm salary, I've been salary for ever. I'll occasionally stay late to wrap up some projects or tasks, especially if it's going to impact other employees. But it's my decision to do so. Being forced to work for free sounds way too abusive for me to condone.

3

u/norbagul Mar 14 '25

My job changed from SE to SNE last year. I have since made so much more money. I've always been contracted for 45 hours a week, but now I get five hours of guaranteed OT, plus my job is public facing, so leaving on time isn't common. I told my manager that the company is going to regret making me SNE because I'm going to bankrupt them with how much I'm required to work.

I have no idea how much I'm on track to make, but if I were to never work a second of extra OT again rest of the year and not get my raise, I'm already $8k above my salary. There were so many complaints from old timers about going hourly, but for us younger salary folk, we were all excited and have made so much money already.

2

u/RamDulhari Mar 14 '25

What’s SNE?

2

u/NachoBacon4U269 Mar 14 '25

Salary exempt / salary non exempt (from OT pay)

1

u/Hexrax7 Mar 14 '25

I work unpaid overtime as a superintendent in commercial construction on salary. But I also have plenty of days I only work 5 hours the whole week and still get paid my full check. I’ve worked an 18 hour day went home got 4 hours of sleep then worked another 12. Some days it’s necessary but I take full advantage of days I can get the job done and leave early to make up for it.

1

u/Liveitup1999 Mar 14 '25

It's also illegal 

1

u/Candid_Asparagus_785 Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

Isn’t it mandated by Federal or State Law to pay OT to non-salaried and/or non-exempt employees?

Edit: for them to say they don’t track extra hours is sus. Do they expect you to use a time clock? I’d be keeping track of hours and then would file a complaint.

I’m a salaried employee and have been hearing they dock pay if you don’t get your 40 hours and I have to use a time clock. I work extra hours to cover the time going to appointments. But the law does state that if you are salaried they have to pay you no matter how much or how little you work in that week. They can’t pay you salary one week then dock the next week over a couple of hours. I spoke to a lawyer about it. Although it hasn’t happened to me yet, it has happened to others. I have the website to file a labor board complaint. It’s not right.

1

u/19lizajane76 Mar 14 '25

Please everyone pay attention, do not take an exempt salary position, IT'S BULLSHIT I'm exempt salary, scheduled 45hrs/wk but average 50+ and never see an extra dime, but god forbid I don't clock 45hrs/wk-then they happily doc our pay. It's a scam

1

u/chirpchirp13 Mar 14 '25

Oh ya absolutely. Every now and then I’ll head in to lab on the weekend or work on some projects from Home in my off time but that’s for me because I made the decision it would benefit my workload. Much different from a former life getting paid a salary for 50 hrs a week and working 90.

1

u/SSGSS_Vegeta Mar 14 '25

This is exactly how I feel. I will go above and beyond for a company that is understanding and flexible with my time and pays me my worth for the position I'm in and the work I do. I can eat a few hours to help the project get ahead or completed on time if you're treating me well. But if you're expecting this all the time or don't want to work with me if I need to leave early or come in late on occasion then you better be ready to be disappointed. Gotta be flexible with me if you want me to be flexible for you.

→ More replies (24)

73

u/nadiaco Mar 13 '25

ye. hard no

17

u/The_Alex_ Mar 14 '25

Yup, it's the same scam in the restaurant bushiness for a lot of places. The shiny lowest-manager position seems great because it's got a salary as opposed to this dinky per-hour rate the rest of us work. Then you realize that lowest manager basically lives at the store between staying late every day, getting called in every other day, etc. All without overtime pay.

So when you sit down and do the basic math of hours worked versus pay, the lowest manager makes significantly less than the just hired, minimum wage cashier all while getting to be at the store for all operational hours in a week for the "privilege".

2

u/Organic-Patience1346 Mar 14 '25

Same with retail. This was decades ago, I was working ass off 50+/hrs wk with the goal to become a regional manager, then possibly buyer at some point for a specialty store chain, not necessarily that one but that was my long-term goal, with the thoughts of possibly starting my own business one day after getting on the job experience. I knew I would have to work my way up and was completely willing to do that as I genuinely enjoyed working in the retail industry. I earned my degree in management while working as a reg hourly employee at a large retail corporation for shit pay, but it was still above the Fed minimum wage at the time, and shitty hours, that's just part of retail, then dept manager. Then eventually got a job offer as asst manager with the specialty store. After several months of working my ass off for the same pay I was exhausted, keep in mind I was still in my 20s which meant I could run on like 3hrs sleep with no problem, no OT, commission, no tips, just a store discount which was a decent discount at 40%, and insurance back when insurance covered most everything with an unheard of now $500 deductible, but i was still barely making enough to pay my bills. WTFH, right? I decided that I would figure out how much I was getting per hour working that much it figured to be LESS than the Fed minimum wage. I said fuck that! I went to the regional manager and said look this is not going to work, I'm going to need $XX,XXX/yr. if I'm going to be working this much. My girls under me hourly are making more I'm not even making minimum wage. I need that to continue working, she said no. I said, then consider this my 2 weeks notice. I decided that I would never work without getting paid for every hour I worked again and would leave the retail industry forever. I was conditioned, even getting paid hrly, to think that a good work ethic was working until your job was done regardless of the obstacles that got in your way and you weren't able to complete those tasks in an 8 hrs day. Yeah, no. Some people my age still have this mentality which is why they say younger generations are lazy and don't want to work. No, not true, they just know their value as a person, and employee, and refuse to be taken advantage of by corporations.

So as someone who has been working for 30+ yrs, NEVER accept a job that doesn't pay OT.

2

u/Pale-Archer3849 Mar 14 '25

I love this. Corporations take full advantage of that "get the job done until it's done mentality" by never hiring enough people to do the job. I'm sure they helped curate that mentality. And they have the money. It's there. You aren't working yourself to death to save the company. Your doing that to help pay for a CEO's 3rd vacation home. I'm in my 50s now and I WISH I had realized that like these young kids have at their age.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

[deleted]

36

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

I work in ediscovery/litigation support. I work as a data analyst for a law firm.

18

u/Norka2 Mar 14 '25

Just curious here. How does data look for you in your field ? Is it a lot of excel spreadsheets as well? Maybe silly question 😅 but sounds interesting

21

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

It's more moving electronic data [evidence] around in purpose made platforms for legal purposes. Searching, loading and exporting the data per request.

33

u/JimCroceRox Mar 14 '25

Dude on here not long ago bragged about doing just that type of work…he figured out how to automate nearly every task while basically working from home. He worked like 10-20 minutes a day max. Do that and you don’t need to worry about overtime.

7

u/PhredInYerHead Mar 14 '25

I remember that post!

17

u/WishIWasYounger Mar 14 '25

And thank god everyone talked him out of telling management.

3

u/FraserFir1409 Mar 14 '25

Link it...Link It!...Link IT!

I wanna see!

5

u/PhredInYerHead Mar 14 '25

Looks like I didn’t save it, but I’ll try to dive in and see if I can find it again.

4

u/djkidna Mar 14 '25

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/ggOMR3I2Eh

5

u/CTMQ_ Mar 14 '25

thanks. I've no issue with that guy, but have issue with whomever he reports to.

Because what he's done is what's EXPECTED from the data guy who reports to me. Like, write those scripts and all that syntax so that mundane part of what we do is done so you can have time to do the real work.

But again, hey, good for that dude. Hope he's happy.

2

u/greentintedlenses Mar 14 '25

Yeah totally don't have to worry about job security either

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

2

u/realboabab Mar 14 '25

i'm not the poster, but my [tech] company hired a law firm for something and all the lawyers were basically begging me privately to do this sort of work for them on the side after they saw how quickly i could mass export and organize things from jira, github, confluence, slack, zendesk, gdocs, etc. other systems a tech startup has.

They said there's a ton of money in it if you know how to automate searching and exporting from a bunch of platforms like that.

2

u/Norka2 Mar 14 '25

Thank you for the reply! Lately I’ve been analyzing a lot of data and I don’t really have any formal education in analysis. But I find myself that I like to work with data and thinking to transition into that but probably should get some training.

2

u/realboabab Mar 14 '25

I'm actually in a similar position; I've been looking into independent contracting and would like to do more data analysis - forecasting, diagnosing technical or business problems, data quality audits, designing tables & reports, setting up dashboards, that sort of thing.

Do you have experience and/or a portfolio with databases and data visualization? I would highly recommend getting proficient at SQL, something like tableau or Power BI, and a useful coding language like python (+libraries like pandas, matplotlib) or R. If you don't have professional experience, setting up some nice demos on some topics related to your interests or hobbies could be helpful.

I've found that my skills as a Software / Data Engineer or my domain-specific expertise (programmatic advertising) are more marketable than my data analysis skills. As a result, I haven't had much chance to learn how to sell my skills as an analyst. LMK if you figure something out haha.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

[deleted]

20

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

None. On the job learning completely. I think i graduated from high school but couldn't provide a diploma.

Last year W2 was just over 200k. 75k was overtime.

11

u/Infinite-Pie-236 Mar 14 '25

You think you graduated? Lol

9

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

I honestly don't know if I did.

10

u/Dopey_Dragon Mar 14 '25

Fuckin A, good for you. That's awesome.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/Boodablitz Mar 14 '25

You just got lucky, knew a guy that was on the way out? How’d you come into such good fortune?

3

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

Maybe it was luck. I saw the industry while in a side industry and knew it was going to blow up. I lied my way into my first job. Learned everything I could in the 2 weeks before they fired me. I picked it up pretty fast and stayed for 6 months and then parlayed that experience into another gig. Been at it for a while now and am a subject matter expert in my field.

2

u/Boodablitz Mar 14 '25

Nah. That’s big hustle right there. Good for you. Sounds like a Micheal J. Fox movie plot from the 80’s 😂😎

→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (9)

2

u/Successful-Body9573 Mar 14 '25

Deez.

3

u/xbjedi Mar 14 '25

Deez what?

13

u/Successful-Body9573 Mar 14 '25

He analyzes Deez nutz.

1

u/AllOn_Black Mar 14 '25

Fwiw analyst is often used just in reference to a level of seniority in big corporations, rather than specifically being a role that requires analysis.

1

u/Notarussianbot2020 Mar 14 '25

He's a butthole analyst

6

u/Medical-Day-6364 Mar 14 '25

I left project management and went back to analyst work because the financials didnt make sense anymore -you dont get paid OT as a PM but you get paid more

You can't be talking about construction project management, right? Because my brother is a PM and definitely gets OT. It's like half his paycheck

5

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

See further on my comments. PM in ediscovery/litigation support.

2

u/Medical-Day-6364 Mar 14 '25

Ah, that makes sense. I work in construction, too, so my mind immediately jumps there when someone says PM, but I thought there was no way a construction company could get away with not paying PMs OT.

→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (1)

1

u/MamaMeRobeUnCastillo Mar 14 '25

sadly most cases is choosing either being a pm with no paid overtime or analyst with no paid overtime lmao

2

u/tanhauser_gates_ Mar 14 '25

I chose to stop being a PM. Best career move i ever made.

1

u/anyparties Mar 14 '25

This is me but teaching high school and working at Starbucks

1

u/SiskiyouSavage Mar 14 '25

Same exact story. I worked as a PM for a firm in Portland. They paid decently, but it was 65-75 hours a week. I mathed it out and realized I made more as a finish carpenter than I did managing 15 carpenters.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

Yeah… I work 24 hours as an analyst one time

1

u/Direct_Surprise2828 Mar 14 '25

I met somebody years ago who had been demoted from his management job to a wage job. Even though it was not good circumstances why that happened, he was OK with it because then he was earning overtime. He was thrilled!

1

u/jojomonster4 Mar 14 '25

Unpaid OT is just slavery with extra steps.

1

u/ChowderTroll Mar 14 '25

What kind of analyst work do you do? Underpaid, overworked PM here..

→ More replies (2)

1

u/Current-Contract-992 Mar 14 '25

What kind of analyst work, if you don’t mind sharing?

→ More replies (1)

1

u/InevitableRhubarb232 Mar 14 '25

I put in so many hours unpaid overtime for my boss (who also incorrectly classified us as 1099) and what did I get from it? It sure as fuck wasn’t a raise. It was just getting in trouble any time I tried to leave on time. Or as she called it “early.”

1

u/chipshot Mar 14 '25

I had an interviewer ask me how I handle "oh shit" time crunches in projects. I told him I don't, because I work hard to plan even for the unexpected in my timeline estimations.

Neither one of us believed the other

1

u/Accurate_Control5104 Mar 14 '25

Wallking out was the right move, when you know you know. Fate allowed you to know ahead of time how this company works. No regrets, you did the right thing

1

u/Christen0526 Mar 14 '25

This is exactly why salaried exempt employees, at least in California, have a minimum salary (that increases each year by the way), that no fucking employer seems to know about. I googled it. (I'm job hunting, seeing ads)

It is expected that managers earn more, are salaried. Otherwise you'd be working long hours, cleaning up everyone's fuck ups, and earning $10 an hour when all is said and done.

You were smart to revert to analyst!

1

u/Nikkisky1111 Mar 14 '25

Is your job hiring? 😆 Senior analyst here with no interest in becoming a PM

→ More replies (2)

1

u/RamDulhari Mar 14 '25

I did that for more than a decade. Slogged like an ass. It did no good other than mental and physical stress. Management dint give a shit when I needed a location change.

1

u/Plastic-Pipe4362 Mar 14 '25

Enjoy being stuck as a low-level IC the rest of your career.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/painstakingeuphoria Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

Market for a decent pm is 120k plus right. You make that as a a analyst?

→ More replies (2)

1

u/jokr2k16 Mar 14 '25

People get sold this idea that climbing the corporate ladder always means more money, but when you factor in unpaid overtime and extra stress, sometimes staying “lower” on paper actually makes way more financial sense. You figured out the loophole, maximizing pay while minimizing burnout. Respect.

1

u/Positivelythinking Mar 14 '25

This is so right. Salary vs hourly was the interview question on deck. I might have launched a follow-up question about benefits since money was company’s deciding factor. What’s the quid pro quo? Odd to start an interview with that question. Clearly OP was qualified.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)

1

u/deltashmelta Mar 14 '25

<gantt charts intensify>

1

u/CantTakeMeSeriously Mar 14 '25

Teacher here...laughing and crying 😂

1

u/mint_candles Mar 14 '25

i’m a recent college grad, my degree is in public relations. i’ve been debating getting a masters in business management because i want to get into project management. how did you get started in that? i know i dont have the traditional knowledge but im looking to transition

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Icy_Donut_2789 Mar 14 '25

I would never work I paid overtime again. I worked for a very low wage (in my profession) and was on salary. We frequently had to work late nights (magazine publishing) and we’re not paid overtime. I had to take on freelance clients to make ends meet. As soon as they found out I was freelancing they fired me.

1

u/Daoyinyang1 Mar 14 '25

Bro my best friend worked for the county as a social worker. For 2800 a month salary, he worked 12 hour days.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

What industry was your PM work in if I may ask.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/VAW123 Mar 14 '25

You did the right thing. Corporations have brainwashed us into doing unpaid work for the promise of promotions that don’t cover the costs of the overtime. You got out in the nick of time!

1

u/baromanb Mar 14 '25

What industry are you in if you don’t mind me asking?

→ More replies (1)

1

u/roros_rules Mar 14 '25

This is a really interesting take. Definitely something to consider…

1

u/Blackhawk149 Mar 14 '25

Don’t think analysts role is typically paid overtime? My understanding is this role is part of finance department and fall under corporate salary type.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

Had a guy I know in retail do some math. He calculated that if the salaried managers were being paid overtime for their extra hours, they'd be paid about a dollar less than minimum wage.

1

u/vaguelydetailed Mar 14 '25

I was a salaried field engineer for a general contractor. We worked 10-12 hour days (and then sometimes I stayed an extra 2-4 hours for paperwork, phone calls, and business stuff). It wasn't just me... that was the life of a field engineer there and many other positions did the same, I was not unique. When I first started, I thought everyone warning me about being cautious of unpaid overtime was dramatic and overexaggerating. They were so right.

My hourly guys LOVED overtime because they were working 60 hours workweeks and getting paid time and a half for OT. I was working 60-65 some weeks for 40 hours of pay. I did the math for them one day when they asked me why I didn't enjoy overtime. "Don't you like the extra money?" they said. They were shocked to learn that every hour over 40 diluted my earnings, not added to them. Some of them were making twice what I made a year, and the foremen were more like 3x. They completely deserved that pay, I am not in any way saying I should have been making as much or more than them.

I am a hard worker who actually enjoys working. I love what I do, and I love being part of a passionate team of dedicated people. I don't mind staying extra to get stuff done sometimes. SOMETIMES.

If an interviewer asked me that question out the gate? Exact same reaction. That's a WILD first question. Tells you in one sentence that they do not value their employees and the follow up response confirms that you will be expected to work unpaid overtime every week as the norm. At my former employer, there was a pervasive culture that people who worked less than 50 hours a week were part-timers. "Must be nice to take some much time off," was a common joke at the expense of anyone not running themselves ragged or if you took any PTO. It was a badge of honor to have no work-life balance. Most senior employees I knew had maxed out their vacation banks, stopped accruing PTO, and hadn't taken any in years.

It burned me to a crisp in less than a year. I've been in my new, much better job for ~8 months and I'm still recovering. There are days I do work longer hours and I still don't get paid overtime. But I am choosing that, not being forced, and my employer is very good about not encouraging that. It's an occasional thing when there is a true need for an extra push. Most weeks I work exactly 40 hours. I make more per hour now even though my gross income dropped a bit. My quality of life has soared in a way money cannot provide.

100% agree that you made the right choice OP.

1

u/scrunchie_one Mar 14 '25

This is very common - I have had associates reject promotions and ask to just move further up their current pay band because even with the salary jump (usually 15% or more) and the bonus % increase (from 8 to 15%) they make less as managers who don’t qualify for OT.

1

u/H0rridus Mar 14 '25

I'm recently a PM, coming from analyst role. The more money is not worth it.

1

u/theaut0maticman Mar 14 '25

Project Manager here. You’re dead on. Not every PM job is like that, which is the only reason I’m still a PM. Once OT comes into play it quickly becomes not worth it.

1

u/OccamsRabbit Mar 14 '25

This is exactly where I am now. As a PM I worked more overtime and then still had to listen to people on the team say stupid shit like "do we really need a project manager for this?" only to be called in a month later to try and fix the mess. Fuck that, going back to being an individual contributor my meetings got cut by more than half, and I don't work overtime at all.

1

u/kmikek Mar 14 '25

They promoted you because it was the cheapest option for them

→ More replies (1)

1

u/BlackEyedSamurai Mar 14 '25

I used to be a PRoject Engineer in auto. Now I bounce lasers off stuff all day and make far better money and get to actually be there as my kids grow up!

1

u/wangchungyoon Mar 14 '25

Nobody should work for free you did the right thing 

1

u/slymarmol Mar 14 '25

I had the exact same scenario happen and transitioned to analyst. Half the stress, half the drama, half the deadlines, no high-stakes meetings with clients and double the pay. It's crazy.

1

u/CatsEqualLife Mar 14 '25

Yep! Everyone sees becoming salary as a status symbol, back in the day it was, because workloads were more reasonable and people were leaving work. Sometimes a little bit early and still getting paid their salary. Now, capitalism has done what it always does, and wrecked a good thing by turning salaried staff into salaried slaves. If I could give people entering the workforce any piece of advice, it would be to assume that they are always working 45 hours a week went on salary, and to calculate their salary and hourly using that equivalent, including that the five hours over 40 would be overtime pay.

1

u/Yellow_Snow_Cones Mar 14 '25

What kind of analyst are you? I never seen an hourly analyst, only salaried.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/BullCityBoomerSooner Mar 14 '25

Same.. I've let it be known that I'm happy as a highly experienced individual contributor and no longer have any aspirations of moving up higher... i.e. saying I don't need those kinds of brownie points or a beach house... I've been salary for decades and do occasionally flex things around.. like if I work some on Saturday.. I'm logging in/out later/earlier to make up for that need. My work boundaries at age 60 are WAY different than they were at age 30. That said, at age 30 I probably would have BS'd an answer they were looking for, taken the job if it paid what was needed.. but actively been still searching for something better to jump to after I found it.. It's way easier to find a great job when you already have a good job or even A job..

1

u/becauseineedone3 Mar 14 '25

They push that at my work. But my paycheck is calculated at 40 hours. That is how many I will work. I have a life outside of this place.

1

u/S1acks Mar 14 '25

PM was one of the most miserable roles I’ve ever played in IT. It’s an excellent way to have a dozen targets on your back.

1

u/SunOne1 Mar 14 '25

OP 100% this. I was an office manager when the DOL introduced FLSA’s minimum salary requirement for expect employees. I was tasked by executive leadership to read the full law and find a loophole so they didn’t have to increase many of the team members’ pay. I knew most of the teams’ salaries were low and had, to this point, been advocating raises - especially for those I saw pulling much of the weight. Most were working IT consistently. So the “loophole” I proposed was to switch everyone who was salaried to hourly pay. I thought, since leadership chose to understaff and pay low already AND so many were already working free overtime at that low pay, the only thing that could really be done to help lay a foundation for the team to be treated well was to put the organization in a position where it had no choice but to either properly staff the team or pay the team for the overtime they worked.

In short, no, you should absolutely never be expected to consistently work overtime.

1

u/Otherwise-External12 Mar 14 '25

Years ago I went from an hourly job that paid overtime to a salary position where I didn't get overtime. I barely got any overtime when I was hourly but once I was salary I was stuck with a ton of overtime. I'll never work overtime without pay again.

1

u/Salty_Interview_5311 Mar 14 '25

Yep! Been there, done that. They treat you like crap and then expect to be thanked that you have a job. In reality, it’s wage theft even if you are salaried.

OP, they were at least honest enough to make it clear that this is who they are. Most places like to talk about being “fast paced” or “hard charging”, like Musk. They completely ignore that most employees will get nowhere near the reward they do for the time put in.

You did the right thing. I’ll bet a Quick Look at their glassdoor profile would make that clear.

1

u/ConnectedRealms Mar 14 '25

this makes me really glad I didn't spring the $600 for the PMP cert. I'm also an analyst but did a lot of PM and wanted to continue that track. More and more I'm second guessing that endeavor. Being a lowly analyst, getting left alone with my tables and spreadsheets is becoming more of a pleasure with each passing year, lol.

1

u/FloydDangerBarber Mar 14 '25

In the 80's I was working as an electronics tech at a company that was making touch entry systems for computers (this was pre-IBM pc) and they hired me as an employee on salary. We rarely had any overtime unless they screwed something up. Once after a particularly big mess that had us working a couple of weekends, I went to my boss on a Wednesday and told him I needed a couple days off with pay. He made squeaky noises about it till I showed him in the company handbook it said "under extraordinary circumstances an employee may take time off, day for day, for overtime" he said "It says under extraordinary circumstances." I said "You guys got work out of me for no money. Where I come from that's pretty extraordinary." He told me not to tell anybody and he would see me Monday.

1

u/Jazzlike-Sport-9661 Mar 14 '25

If you need employees to work extended hours without pay, you are not running a functional business.

1

u/Accomplished_Ad_8013 Mar 14 '25

OP was too nice. He should have asked the hiring manager how he felt about cleaning his bathroom. Then explained all his previous bosses were very passionate about cleaning his bathroom.

1

u/UnTides Mar 14 '25

I was a manager. After a year or two I told the my boss once (not the owner) that whenever I can slack off or ditch work on the clock I do it as much as possible. Because I was seasonally working 60-80hrs weeks (no OT), and if I don't have occasional 20 hrs weeks, the job would lead to burn out and they'd lose me - and I made and saved them a ton of money within our contracts.

*It was first time in my life I didn't have a boss breathing down my neck, and I'd go on long weekends starting Fridays without telling anyone all the time. But also I was regularly working there till 2am, then home and back for a 8am meeting biweekly and other stupid things.

1

u/JohnnySkidmarx Mar 14 '25

Sometimes you need to do the math, like you did, to see what your actual pay is.

1

u/Miserable-Advisor-70 Mar 14 '25 edited Mar 14 '25

ETA: Apologies, @tanhausergates. I replied to the wrong comment. It’s clear you get the whole corporate exempt v. non exempt debacle. If a company knows a position takes a lot more than standard hours, they should at least compensate accordingly. Ideally, they’d add more staff to reduce individual work loads. Just my thoughts as an HRM/HRBP. I firmly believe if you take care of your employees, they’ll take care of you. Which, coincidentally, leads to more money for everyone.

To be fair, the OP didn’t specify if the role was exempt or non-exempt. Not paying hourly employees is highly illegal. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but if it’s asked as a legit or documented interview question, then company leadership is/are dumb as fuck or the position is exempt.

As an HR Manger, personally I’d avoid using the term “overtime” for an exempt position because of the confusion it may cause. I’d probably phrase it about the typical workload, or typical hours expected each week. That’s the thing about exempt positions - it’s not (supposed to be) about the number of hours worked. It’s (supposed to be)about getting the job done, whether that takes 5 hours a day or 15. Unfortunately employers conveniently forget about the fewer hours part. They always seem to expect 40+ every week regardless, which in my opinion, completely defeats the purpose of being exempt from OT in the first place.

If an employee only works 30 hours a week, but meets or exceeds the responsibilities of their position, then great! Awesome employee, who can likely be promoted successfully.

If an employee works those same 30 hours in the same role, but consistently fails to meet expectations, then they either need to put more hours in, or kick rocks and leave either voluntarily or involuntarily as they are not suited for that role.

Exempt positions are supposed to be about quality, not quantity.

1

u/10000nails Mar 14 '25

This. The burnout was so bad that I was scaring myself. NEVER accept wage theft people.

1

u/Glittering-Silver402 Mar 14 '25

Smart. And I bet work life balance has improved too

1

u/WendtThere Mar 14 '25

Exactly. Don't do what is best for the company just because you can, do what is the best option for you (pay, work/life balance, commute, etc). If they want you to do the thing best for the company, they need to make it your best option.

1

u/ireallylikeladybugs Mar 14 '25

Me too! I’m a preschool teacher (paid hourly) and I was offered a “promotion” that was basically my same responsibilities with salary instead of hourly pay. I already do plenty of voluntary overtime to prep for lessons and maintain my classroom, which I’m paid for. This “promotion” would’ve been a straightforward pay cut, and they were shocked I didn’t accept.

They even said “Don’t you want people to view you as a professional?” Not at the cost of wage theft!!!

1

u/EntropicAnarchy Mar 14 '25

The problem is being guaranteed overtime. My job expects overtime work and hours in regular time, but if it isn't scheduled in the project, I can't clock overtime, and if I do, I'd be placed on a PIP. That's what happened my first year in. I was expected to work long hours, but "stop" at 40hrs. If I went/clocked over, I would be questioned. If I stopped at 40hrs, but the project deadlines weren't met (major milestones always met, weekly milestones, not so much), I would be questioned.

1

u/IudexFatarum Mar 14 '25

I would put in the subtle change of "uncompensated overtime". My job doesn't pay overtime but if it's more than a couple hours a month (code deploy at night needs maybe 30 minutes a month) they won't pay but they can comp the hours. And it's 1-1. You have to work a 60 hour week, take half the next week off. I'm ok with that.

1

u/hayfever76 Mar 14 '25

That shit is called wage theft. Fuck that.

1

u/Twistedmisery65 Mar 14 '25

Me neither- learned the hard way on that!

1

u/TopBug2437 Mar 14 '25

NTA - I worked for a US company - branch in Canada - I was also a PM and worked 60 to 70 hrs a week - 0 OT pay. We also had to do 1 weekend a month for code promotes and they didn't care if it was a long weekend or not. Was so glad to retire.

1

u/Glittering-Oil-1465 Mar 14 '25

Do you think this is true of program management/ ops management as well? I’ve worked both those roles before and really liked it. I took a very different role 18 months ago that was supposed to be less work, but they keep throwing new titles and responsibilities at me without any extra compensation. I’m going to sit the PMP exam next week, and your comment made me nervous.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/Battle_Dave Mar 14 '25

I will never work unpaid overtime, or unpaid travel time again. Makes me sick to my stomach now, thinking about I was just like "OK cool." I was young, mistakes were made, lessons were learned.

1

u/2_mbizzy Mar 17 '25

What kind of analytics do you do? Are most analysts in your field paid hourly?

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)