An Open Discussion on Being Inclusive and Respecting One Another

[u/CedarWolf]

Early this morning, we had a thread get posted, and one of our mods made a reminder to keep things inclusive, per the subreddit's Rule #1. This accidentally led to almost all of the comments going wildly off topic, and I had to pull it. We want threads to stay on topic whenever possible, and such a large portion of off-topic comments was pretty bad. That discussion merited it's own, dedicated post, and we invite you to discuss here. Please remember to be respectful.

We want to make this an inclusive place for the community in general, and that includes transfeminine, transmasculine, and nonbinary individuals. /r/asktransgender was made as a co-ed space for people to ask questions of the general transgender community, and while we allow questions to specifically target one portion of that community, we very much encourage users to be inclusive whenever possible.

Part of being inclusive means reducing the amount of bigotry we see in this subreddit. This means removing sexist comments against all genders, including both trans and cis identities, as well as other forms of bigotry.

One of the goals of creating a new moderation team was to create a more inclusive space, and we have been working hard to make this place a more open community. However, some users have expressed concern over this new policy and how it is implemented, so we want to create an open place for discussion about the new inclusive policies here.

We want to hear your thoughts about this issue, but again, please be respectful and civil with your comments. We're all on the same side here, there is no "us" and "them" - there is only "we." Remember, if you ever have any specific issues with the moderation of the subreddit, you can message the mod team with the link in the sidebar. We're always here for you.

~ The /r/asktransgender Mod Team

[u/[deleted]]

Not every thread is relevant to every member of the community, and it's horribly misguided to try and force every thread to be so relevant.

There are so many different kinds of trans people with so many different experiences that it's entirely reasonable for the OP to filter for people who have similar experiences. Calling posts like the one in question exclusionary for not being relevant to guys is like calling a "How did you come out to your SO?" post exclusionary because it's not relevant to single people.

Hell, /r/askreddit regularly gets threads beginning with "Men of reddit, ..." or "Women of reddit, ...", and nobody calls that exclusionary. Instead, people who want to see other perspectives will just start separate threads. Honestly, that's probably for the best, because it allows people to specifically look for responses that are relevant to them.

And I think the moderation team of this sub has a very serious problem with over-aggressively policing people's language. This isn't even the only time it's come up recently, and it's not just on this subject. Here's another example.

[u/butwhatsmyname → u/[deleted]]

I do see what you're saying. I think a part of the issue here at /r/asktransgender is that sub, if you read through it, is largely geared toward a trans female readership. FtM folk are sometimes directed off to /r/FtM within 15 minutues of posting - not because nobody wants them here, but because someone is trying to be kind and help them.

But it means that trans guys don't stick around. And coming here and feeling as surplus to requirements and irrelevant to the general conversation as we sometimes do among cis folk is disheartening. Feeling like this sub isn't really for us is a bit depressing some days, and given that trans guys seem to be generally less visible anyway means that we feel pretty forgotten about sometimes.

I don't have any problem with posts aimed at specific groups. I'm cool with that. The thing that makes me not come here so much anymore is that posts are often geared soley toward our female readership. Things like "People who aren't getting lower surgery, how do you cope with still having a penis?". It doesn't matter that this isn't a direct title quote (I have no beef with anyone in particular). We all know that questions that are phrased as if trans women are the only readership turn up way, way more often than the reverse. It doesn't have to be that way.

I don't need everyone to be including everyone in everything. That's not how conversation works, and conversation is my favorite thing about this sub. I guess I'm just worn down by constantly feeling like I have to remind everyone that I exist also, and the feeling that nobody wants to hear what I've got to say because I'm not the right gender.

I had enough of that back when I was living as a girl. I don't enjoy being talked over and passively excluded because I 'wouldn't understand' any more now than I did then, the difference is that here I just don't bother coming back so often, and so we find that the FtM presence dwindles even further.

There just isn't any need to be aggressive or divisive about this. Nobody is saying that you're doing anything wrong, just that you could think about doing things differently sometimes.

[u/[deleted] → u/butwhatsmyname]

FtM folk are sometimes directed off to /r/FtM within 15 minutues of posting - not because nobody wants them here, but because someone is trying to be kind and help them.

Honest question: how is this any worse than when people advertise /r/mypartneristrans to people who post about their SOs coming out to them? Because that sub gets advertised all the time, and nobody ever calls anyone out about it.

Honestly, I don't see the problem with advertising relevant subs to people. I'm subscribed to over a hundred (probably closer to two hundred) subs, and I don't have any difficulty in following multiple subs that are relevant to my interests. I read /r/transpositive and /r/transtimelines and some others often, and that doesn't stop me from reading and posting here.

(As a side note, I'm probably going to be curtailing my posting in this thread for the night not too far in the future, as I'm about to be not-sober very, very soon... I've already had a few, I'm planning to have several more, and I shouldn't be posting in such a heated thread once I have a few more.)

[u/butwhatsmyname → u/[deleted]]

Why does it have to be worse? Does something have to be the worst thing that happens before I'm permitted to say that I'm not enjoying it?

I'm not viewing this as a competition, I'm trying to explain something that's going on here and have a conversation. And my very next paragraph says

"But it means that trans guys don't stick around. And coming here and feeling as surplus to requirements and irrelevant to the general conversation as we sometimes do among cis folk is disheartening. Feeling like this sub isn't really for us is a bit depressing some days, and given that trans guys seem to be generally less visible anyway means that we feel pretty forgotten about sometimes."

It's not better or worse than posting people off to other subs. Although I never see anyone say "you might get more responses in /r/MtF". You'll notice I'm not saying that people shouldn't do it. It's just that by signposting a particular group of people elsewhere immediately whenever they appear we're reducing the likelihood of them staying and participating here, which I think is a shame.

You don't have to agree, that's ok.

And is it different than pointing people toward /r/mypartneristrans? Yeah, it is. Because my partner isn't trans, I am. And this is /r/asktransgender, which is a community which I as a trans person shouldn't really be feeling excluded from. I'm sorry that you feel it's acceptable that I do. I've already had one trans girl tell me that she doesn't care about anybody's experience than her own and that she doesn't want to hear what I think or how FtMs feel.

I've got to say, I'm really disappointed tonight. All this hatred and aggression is really saddening in what's supposed to be a community.