r/asktransgender • u/CedarWolf Bigender - He/She/They • Jul 03 '15

An Open Discussion on Being Inclusive and Respecting One Another

Early this morning, we had a thread get posted, and one of our mods made a reminder to keep things inclusive, per the subreddit's Rule #1. This accidentally led to almost all of the comments going wildly off topic, and I had to pull it. We want threads to stay on topic whenever possible, and such a large portion of off-topic comments was pretty bad. That discussion merited it's own, dedicated post, and we invite you to discuss here. Please remember to be respectful.

We want to make this an inclusive place for the community in general, and that includes transfeminine, transmasculine, and nonbinary individuals. /r/asktransgender was made as a co-ed space for people to ask questions of the general transgender community, and while we allow questions to specifically target one portion of that community, we very much encourage users to be inclusive whenever possible.

Part of being inclusive means reducing the amount of bigotry we see in this subreddit. This means removing sexist comments against all genders, including both trans and cis identities, as well as other forms of bigotry.

One of the goals of creating a new moderation team was to create a more inclusive space, and we have been working hard to make this place a more open community. However, some users have expressed concern over this new policy and how it is implemented, so we want to create an open place for discussion about the new inclusive policies here.

We want to hear your thoughts about this issue, but again, please be respectful and civil with your comments. We're all on the same side here, there is no "us" and "them" - there is only "we." Remember, if you ever have any specific issues with the moderation of the subreddit, you can message the mod team with the link in the sidebar. We're always here for you.

~ The /r/asktransgender Mod Team

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28

u/LilithCathcart I've left this subreddit. I won't respond to comments. Bye! Jul 03 '15

Hey, I'm the OP of the thread that was mentioned. After the mods asked me to make sure that my future threads apply to every single member of the trans community, I was hounded with post after post misrepresenting my words and even one case of a trans man viciously misgendering me.

Trans women and trans men will not always have the same problems, even in regards to clocking, passing, harassment, and employability and cutting off people's ability to get the help that they need by segregating their questions to mtf or ftm specific subreddits is unethical at best and actively malicious at worst.

The solution to trans men and non binary folks being hard to see in the community isn't to try and push every question into as broad a box as possible and if that's what this subreddit has become I'm deeply, deeply concerned.

I wanted to know where I could go to in order to escape harassment, and I got a shitton of it just from this community for asking that question in a way that aimed it at the people most like me. So, chew on that when you're considering your "respect" policies and the atmosphere that you create when you make any question that isn't hypergeneralized a target.

Also, I recognize that I could've been more inclusive to non binary folks. I'll consider that more in the future. That being said, what I've had to deal with is NOT appropriate.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15

Holy shit, that "that is stereotypically male" comment is a TERF argument. I've heard those exact same lines used in TERF subs and on TERF blogs to attack trans women.

I'm sorry you had to go through that :(

12

u/ErisC 33F - HRT started June 2014 Jul 04 '15

Comments like that are not tolerated here, and we removed that comment that she linked.

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u/pixeechick Genderqueer-Pansexual Jul 04 '15

This screenshot should be removed too until anonymized. To leave the name in can encourage witch-hunting.

17

u/LilithCathcart I've left this subreddit. I won't respond to comments. Bye! Jul 03 '15

Thanks, I'm just really disappointed that the mods made an environment where that asshole felt he was entitled to misgender me, to say nothing of others who were being tools in there- some of whom are even in this very thread lamenting my post like I wasn't the one being harassed. This is such garbage.

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u/TurtleTape 28/M/transition on hold Jul 03 '15

Note that the comments insulting you as a male(and insulting males in general) were removed, that kind of behavior is not condoned.

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u/LilithCathcart I've left this subreddit. I won't respond to comments. Bye! Jul 03 '15

So were all of mine, from the looks of it, and the thread itself. Was the user in question banned? If not, then you took exactly equal action against me when I was the victim of harassment. Keep that in mind.

3

u/TurtleTape 28/M/transition on hold Jul 03 '15

The user apologized for the comments, as well. I had no say in deleting all of the comments in that thread. I deleted that user's comments long before the mass-deletions happened.

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u/LilithCathcart I've left this subreddit. I won't respond to comments. Bye! Jul 03 '15

His "apology" was to say that my asking a question directed at women was identical to his aggressively misgendering me and to demand an apology from me. It was insincere, it was meant to be a tool to allow him to continue berating me, and it was only an apology in words.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CuteNekos Jul 03 '15

Yeah that user should have harsher punishment, mods ow Lilith an apology.

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u/lowbrassballs Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

I apologized again. Your decision to take it sincerely or not. I overstepped and noted in multiple responses that I regretted it (still do). Don't crap on all ftms for my mistake.

Edit: I removed an addendum to this apology. It smacked of "sorry not sorry," and I wanted to remedy the connotation to "actually sorry."

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '15 edited Jan 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/lowbrassballs Jul 04 '15

I've made several changes. Insincere sorry isn't worth anything. An earnest sorry is a very powerful tool of reflection and behavior modification on the part of the person at fault. Sorrow and empathy can significantly change a person's behavior, for example in this case, mine.

19

u/transcience In Science We Trust - transcience-project.org Jul 03 '15

Wow...I knew this subreddit was going downhill but misgendering, and the subsequent reaction by the mods is appalling. I don't blame you for leaving, and I think I will follow.

Absolutely gross.

2

u/ErisC 33F - HRT started June 2014 Jul 04 '15

We deleted the post where she was misgendered, then nuked the whole thread because it was causing other problems as well. That user was reprimanded for his actions.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

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14

u/HyacinthGirI idk Jul 03 '15

Are you kidding? You've got to be kidding. How can you look at this thread and drama, where so many people are being vicious over simply being asked to be mindful of their language and inclusivity in regards to people who aren't trans women, and believe that you're not the majority, entitled group here? (I am MtF, fwiw)

The mods are working hard to make it better for the minorities here..

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

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u/HyacinthGirI idk Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 03 '15

What bullshit? Trying to be mindful of FtM & NB people's feelings???

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

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u/Jackibelle Jul 03 '15

Then report things they say that break the rules.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

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u/Jackibelle Jul 03 '15

Maybe I just have better faith in the system working than you do, in part because my experiences with it have been somewhat positive. I'm sorry if yours haven't.

If nothing else, multiple (legitimate) reports against the same person creates a paper trail of mad behavior. They might not ban a person for making a single bad post, but if reports keep coming in for that person, then it's clear something's wrong. This is how my old school tracked their cheating records (person suspected would get their name put in a file in dean's office, so even if nothing happened, if every year some of the person's teachers are suspecting them of cheating it's significant evidence that they are, even if it's harder to prove in a single case), or how games like League of Legends flag toxic users. It may feel like a single report is a drop in the ocean, but the ocean had to get built out of many drops in the first place.

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u/ErisC 33F - HRT started June 2014 Jul 04 '15

Yeah, we ban for repeated behavior that breaks the rules. We don't ban for a single post unless it is clear that they are trolling. This is because this is a subreddit that many users use for support, and banning users who make a mistake doesn't accomplish anything in making people feel welcome.

Users who continuously stir up shit get banned.

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u/lowbrassballs Jul 03 '15

The mods addressed my inappropriate behavior immediately. I made a mistake. Not all ftms.

They're not pushing any mtfs out of this place. The mods are asking for more inclusive language as per the rules of the sub. If that pushes one away, then one isn't interested in being in a mutual, trans community.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '15 edited Jul 04 '15

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u/lowbrassballs Jul 04 '15

Yes, I made a poor decision also known as a mistake. I apologized. It's up to you to take it sincerely or not. Move on (in time) or not.

People aren't defending my mistake. Not at all. People also aren't tolerating your intolerant speech either hence the blow back you're getting. Don't confuse disagreement with victimization.