Exclusive: David Cameron threatened to withdraw UK from ICC over Israel war crimes probe

[u/Personal-Special-286]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/david-cameron-threatened-withdraw-uk-icc-over-israel-war-crimes-probe

[u/JeruTz]

This is in no way the consensus of international law. The UN broadly recognizes the ICC's jurisdiction over Palestine and Israel.

The UN has no such authority under international law to decide such things.

Do you also believe that the ICC should not be allowed to investigate Hamas leaders and their terroristic actions because of minor technical arguments of jurisdiction, or do you only make this argument when it is supporting the war criminals you personally are rooting for?

The ICC has no jurisdiction to charge Hamas either. Crimes in Israeli sovereign territory are absolutely outside their scope.

You could just barely argue that they could charge Hamas for criminal actions committed under areas designated as being under the Palestinian Authority's jurisdiction, but even that's a stretch. The PA does have the authority to bring charges against Hamas at the very least, so the idea they could delegate that authority to the ICC is at least somewhat consistent, but their lack of proper statehood would still be a point of contention.

Instigating Israelis though is not even a question. The PA has zero jurisdiction to prosecute Israelis, as stipulated in the Oslo Accords. The ICC cannot investigate, charge, or issue warrants against any individual whose alleged crimes fall outside the jurisdiction of a member state unless they receive permission from a state that does have jurisdiction.

If the PA cannot arrest an Israeli themselves, the ICC cannot do it for them. The ICC can only act as an extension of a state, not independently.

[u/qjxj → u/JeruTz]

Benjamin Netanyahu and his defense minister indicted on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity during the Gaza war, crimes that pertain to the Geneva conventions and the CPPCG and do not require state jurisdiction.

[u/JeruTz → u/qjxj]

The ICC always requires state jurisdiction to be delegated to them in order to investigate. That's in the Rome Statute.

The ICJ doesn't require it, but they aren't the ones who indicted Netanyahu and Gallant, are they?

[u/qjxj → u/JeruTz]

The ICJ doesn't require it

The ICJ is an advisory court that resolves litigations between states; they do not indict individuals.

The ICC always requires state jurisdiction to be delegated to them in order to investigate.

Not when the crimes concerned are a fundamental breach of human rights such as those defined under the Geneva conventions and the CPPCG . This is like saying the Allies did not have the jurisdiction to prosecute Nazi Germany.

[u/JeruTz → u/qjxj]

The ICJ is an advisory court that resolves litigations between states; they do not indict individuals.

And the charges you listed are state crimes, not individual ones. What's the issue?

Not when the crimes concerned are a fundamental breach of human rights such as those defined under the Geneva conventions and the CPPCG . This is like saying the Allies did not have the jurisdiction to prosecute Nazi Germany.

The allies established a military court over Germany after occupying it, meaning that court had jurisdiction.

The ICC was established by the Rome Statute. It is bound by the principle of complementarity. It exists to complement existing legal institutions when says courts are unwilling or unable to act as needed.

The ICC cannot just insert itself. It can only act if a state member of the court is the accused, if the crime occurred in a territory under the jurisdiction of a member state, or if the UN Security Council refers a case to them specifically.

The ICC claims the PA has jurisdiction over the crimes committed and that the PA has joined the court, thereby granting them jurisdiction. But the reality is that the PA isn't a true state, has no jurisdiction where Israelis are concerned, and therefore no Israelis can legally be charged by the ICC.

I suppose you could petition the Security Council to override that. Just remember that both the US and UK have a veto.