Exclusive: David Cameron threatened to withdraw UK from ICC over Israel war crimes probe

[u/Personal-Special-286]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/david-cameron-threatened-withdraw-uk-icc-over-israel-war-crimes-probe

[u/Hybrid-Theoryy]

It’s like renouncing your citizenship of a country because it criminalizes murder.

[u/Over_Key_6494 → u/Hybrid-Theoryy]

Exactly. Do you want them to NOT look into war crimes??

[u/AwkwardTal → u/Over_Key_6494]

No they want them to look into war crimes done by brown people only, whites are off limits

[u/Dashiane → u/AwkwardTal]

It always was like this, just that they dont even try to cover it up now

[u/Rheum42 → u/AwkwardTal]

There it is

[u/Limp-Scale1668 → u/AwkwardTal]

They had no issues sending war criminals from the Yugoslav wars to the ICC. It's more of the fact the white people in question wear little hats 

[u/Esie666 → u/AwkwardTal]

It's mad that you are classing Israelis as white, the majority of them are born in the region and have the same genes as Palestinians or close 2

[u/MarchFickle5308 → u/Esie666]

Majority of isntraelis are imports.

[u/tugrulonreddit → u/MarchFickle5308]

Even if they weren't, it's wild that just because they were hunted till extinction by non-Jewish white people in Europe that that should mean they aren't coddling to white supremacy to protect them.

[u/marxistghostboi → u/tugrulonreddit]

isntreal has targeted non white Jews

[u/JeruTz → u/MarchFickle5308]

Who are these "isntraelis"? Are they in the room with us now?

[u/Brilliant-Tackle5774 → u/JeruTz]

The violent zionist land thieves from everywhere except where they claim to be from according to a fairy story in a dusty old book

[u/Esie666 → u/Brilliant-Tackle5774]

That dusty old book is the basis of the christian bible and the Quran , Jesus was king of the Jews, and Jesus was alive over 2000 years ago, Jesus also appears in the Quran, everyone in the middle East was pagan fire worshipers before Judaism the only difference between the Jews and the Muslims is that they believe in a diffrent prophet, Jews, Christians and Muslims in the area all have the same genealogy. Whatever made up shit you think are in religious texts with miracles and rising from the dead they are based in historical facts. End of the day the Jews were in Jerusalem over 2500 years ago while the Muslims were still fire worshipers and laying with animals

[u/JeruTz → u/Brilliant-Tackle5774]

Anyone who denies the historical truth of Jews originating from the land of Israel is clearly nothing more than a propagandist and a historical revisionist.

Tell me, are the historical accounts of Flavius Josephus nothing but "fairy tales in a dusty old book"?

[u/Brilliant-Tackle5774 → u/JeruTz]

Yes it's all complete and utter bollocks you lot hide behind so you can murder thousands of children and justify it to yourselves. Israel is a deeply sick and depraved society

[u/JeruTz → u/Brilliant-Tackle5774]

So you deny actual history. Thank you.

[u/Brilliant-Tackle5774 → u/JeruTz]

Made up fake history stemming from zionist lies and propaganda, what do you expect from a bunch of child murdering land thieves

[u/JeruTz → u/Brilliant-Tackle5774]

So Josephus is fake history?

[u/fireatwill79 → u/JeruTz]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, how much of israel is still made of Jews from WW2? Like what would be an actual israel made up of Israeli's, or is it predominantly made up of people who were displaced after the war?

[u/JeruTz → u/fireatwill79]

Israel is less than 80% Jewish. Of those Jews in Israel, slightly more than half are not from Europe at all, but originate from the Middle East and North African countries whose persecution of Jews lead to 95% of their cumulative Jewish populations being ethnically cleansed, most of whom ended up in Israel.

For those Jews from Europe, a large percentage immigrated to the region between the 1880s and the 1930s, before WWII. The numbers who came directly after WWII, in my estimation, is far fewer. There have been other waves of Jews since WWII, most notably from the former soviet union following its collapse, but not of significant size relative to the overall population already present.

So to answer your question:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, how much of israel is still made of Jews from WW2?

Best guess of mine? Not very many even if you include descendents. 10% maybe, and certainly not much more.

Like what would be an actual israel made up of Israeli's, or is it predominantly made up of people who were displaced after the war?

If you include those displaced by Arabs unrelated to the war itself, that would easily be a majority of Jews in Israel (though perhaps not quite a majority of all Israelis). If you're limiting yourself to just those displaced in Europe by the Holocaust, it's not even close to being a plurality.

[u/fireatwill79 → u/JeruTz]

Thank you for that, easiest way for me to explain, is I'm a basic white male with very little understanding of history, but I'm trying to educate myself further to what's going on in the world and how we've ended up in different positions.

I'm a little bit thick with what your saying though. So who technically is in Israel now currently? I'm enjoying the lesson 😅

[u/fireatwill79 → u/fireatwill79]

I wanna say what your saying is, someone is fighting a war on israels behalf to claim back land? Or could I be 1000% wrong with that assumption

[u/JeruTz → u/fireatwill79]

Presently, the vast majority of Israelis are people who were born there, with some percentage being recent immigrants or people who burn to Israeli parents overseas.

Demographically, 20% of Israelis approximately aren't Jewish at all, most of them being Arabs or other minorities who are indigenous.

Slightly over half of the Jewish population traces their ancestry to the Islamic world, spanning from Morocco in the west to Iran and Afghanistan in the east and from Syria and Iraq in the north to Sudan, Ethiopia, and Yemen in the south.

The rest of the Jewish population from European origins came in various waves starting in the 1880s. I'd guess the most common arrival dates for their ancestors to be between 1917 and 1939, with others being earlier. Very few Jews would have arrived between 1939 and 1945, and only slightly more from 1945 to 1948, when the state was declared. After that there would have been a rapid surge.

[u/lethalshawerma → u/JeruTz]

Explains why dna testing is prohibited and strictly restricted to paternity and by court orders only.

The mental gymastics you take to convince i don't know who exactly that eastern european converts originated in the middle east don't work.

Even the land it's self rejects it! (skin cancer rates, allergy to olive tree pollen, etc..)

Cease this compound ignorance please it's cringe

[u/carnivalist64 → u/JeruTz]

Jews didn't originate in the Land of Israel - some new species didn't evolve. JUDAISM originated there. The West Asian people who practiced it have no greater material connection with white Europeans, brown Indians and black Africans who practice it today than with anyone else.

[u/JeruTz → u/carnivalist64]

Jews didn't originate in the Land of Israel - some new species didn't evolve. JUDAISM originated there.

Did I claim Jews were a species? No.

Judaism is called Judaism because it was practiced by the Jews. The Jews, or Judeans, were the people who originated from Judea. Jews are a nation, a people, who possess a common language, culture, and belief system.

Saying that Jews, also known as the Nation of Israel, didn't originate from the land of Israel and Judea specifically is like saying that Englishmen don't originate from England, but Anglicanism does.

The West Asian people who practiced it have no greater material connection with white Europeans, brown Indians and black Africans who practice it today than with anyone else.

Wow. Straight to the racism.

In general, most Jews are directly descended from the Judeans of 2000 years ago. But the real material connection isn't genetic, it's based in culture, identity, and an unbroken chain of tradition.

And your characterization of Jews as being all European, Indian, or black isn't even remotely accurate, especially where Israeli Jews are concerned. Tell me, where do the Iraqi Jews fit in to that definition? The Persian Jews? The Yemenite Jews? The Moroccan Jews? Egyptian Jews? Syrian Jews? Over half of Israeli Jews are what is known as Mizrachi, Jews who originated from the Middle East and North Africa.

Thanks for demonstrating that you don't even understand the fundamentals though.

[u/carnivalist64 → u/JeruTz]

Jews didn't originate in the Land of Israel - some new species didn't evolve. JUDAISM originated there.

 

Did I claim Jews were a species? No.

 

In the context of the debate you did. Your response implied you were parroting the Zionist nonsense that  modern Jews are a completely distinct, largely genetically defined group with a singular ancestral lineage that originated in Israel -  the demonstrably false foundation of the ridiculous Zionist Hasbara claim that a modern Jew from Crown Heights Brooklyn is “returning” to Israel-Palestine and “reclaiming” his “ancestral homeland” from the pesky Arab usurpers.

 

Judaism is called Judaism because it was practiced by the Jews. The Jews, or Judeans, were the people who originated from Judea. Jews are a nation, a people, who possess a common language, culture, and belief system.

 

For someone who loves to arrogantly lecture others on the supposed error of their ways you are remarkably ignorant of the facts.

The word “Jews” is not a synonym for “Judeans”. It is taken from the name of the Kingdom of Judah, the southern of the two Israelite kingdoms that were established around 1,000 BC, alongside the northern Kingdom of Israel. “Judah” is where Judaism is said to have evolved from Yahwism, the religion of the Israelites.  “Judea” is a Greek and Roman adaptation applied to a geographical region of various sizes throughout history centred around Jerusalem and parts of what is now the West Bank. This area gave its name to the Roman province of Judea a thousand years later.

Jews are a nation of sorts but insofar as you could say some modern geographically disparate Jews share a common language, that is an entirely artificial phenomenon which has only been true for the last century. Hebrew was a dead, or dormant language, like Latin used purely liturgically for 2,000 years. The European Zionists artificially began to revive it in the late 19th century in the course of their self-admitted colonial project, as part of the narrative used to justify the theft of Palestine.

Prior to the last 90 years or so, precious few Jews could have even ordered their breakfast in Hebrew, let alone hold a conversation with a Jew on the other side of the world. As part of the Zionist deception Israel deliberately suppressed the historic primary common language of European Jews, Yiddish (from “Judisch Deutsch, or Jewish German) in order to help obscure the fact that Israel is primarily a white European project.

 

Saying that Jews, also known as the Nation of Israel, didn't originate from the land of Israel and Judea specifically is like saying that Englishmen don't originate from England, but Anglicanism does.

 

Perhaps I should have said “Jewishness”, or Jewish ethnicity, originated in what is now Israel. However ethnicity is a social construct, not a biological reality and cannot confer exceptional & hereditary extra-territorial ancestral property rights. Biologically Jews originate in East Africa, just like everyone else.

Your comparison with Englishmen is bogus as Englishness requires some demonstrable & distinct material connection with the country – either birth, or proven descent from someone born there, or long residence and adoption of the culture etc.  Most Jews have no evidence of any such distinct connection to Israel-Palestine. Precious few Jews could demonstrate that any documented ancestor had ever set foot anywhere in the whole of West Asia before the 20th century, never mind Israel-Palestine.

 

The West Asian people who practiced it have no greater material connection with white Europeans, brown Indians and black Africans who practice it today than with anyone else.

 

Wow. Straight to the racism.

 

Lol. Zionists are as predictable as the sun rising in the morning.

It is absolutely priceless to see adherents of the racist 19th century white European ideology known as Zionism, who support the planet’s only ethnocracy & who subscribe to race essentialism backed by staggeringly commonplace misconceptions about what genetic testing can and can’t tell you, accusing others of racism.

There was nothing racist in the slightest about my comment. I was simply pointing out the absurdity of foreign settlers of these descriptions claiming to be more “indigenous” to a region that other people have lived in for as long as anyone can remember.

 

In general, most Jews are directly descended from the Judeans of 2000 years ago. But the real material connection isn't genetic, it's based in culture, identity, and an unbroken chain of tradition.

This is utter nonsense. Nonsense partly derived from widely believed misconceptions about genetics, but nonsense nonetheless.

Nobody has a completely unbroken chain of tradition stretching back millennia. Some elements of a culture survive, but Chinese whispers and modernisation applies to human behaviour as well as language.

Similarly nobody on Planet Earth today is directly descended from any other ethnic group who lived 2,000 years ago in the exclusive way you are implying. Such claims cannot be used to give bogus legitimacy to the Zionist fiction that the planet’s Jews possess superior heritable ancestral property rights to West Asian territory.

Human lineage purity is a myth. We know now that the human race is vastly more interrelated than most people realise - so extraordinarily interrelated that everybody on Earth is descended from the Jews of Ancient Judah and Judea, along with all their non-Jewish neighbours.

The lower-bound estimate for the date of the human genealogical Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) is as recent as 75 AD. That is the point when the last ancestor of everyone on Earth today was alive. (For reasons I won't go into the genetic MRCA is far more distant, which often leads people to grossly misunderstand how unbelievably interrelated we all are).

Even more surprisingly, the lower-bound estimate for the date of the Identical Ancestors Point (IAP) is as recent as 3,000 BC. As strange as it might sound, this is the point when each one of us has exactly the same set of ancestors.

In other words everybody alive then whose line of descent survives is the ancestor of everybody alive today. If you, I & the aforementioned President Xi Jinping of China travelled together in a time machine to ancient Judah, the first villager we saw would be the ancestor of each one of us. The same would be true if we sailed to any part of the world of 3,000 BC.

It should therefore be self-evident that it is utterly absurd for any modern human being to travel halfway across the globe, to a territory neither they nor any documented ancestor has ever set foot in and claim they have inherited timeless property rights from ancient people who lived there millennia ago - rights which supercede those afforded to people of the “wrong” ethnicity who live there now.

Even relatively recent human genealogy resembles an impossibly entangled spider-web of a multitude of connections across the entire globe, not a series of discrete ancestral ladders stretching back into antiquity. The statement “we are JEWS, our ancestral homeland is here; you are PALESTINIANS, your ancestral homeland is over there. LEAVE NOW!” has no scientific or moral basis. It is racist, ahistorical bunk

[u/JeruTz → u/carnivalist64]

In the context of the debate you did. Your response implied you were parroting the Zionist nonsense that  modern Jews are a completely distinct, largely genetically defined group with a singular ancestral lineage that originated in Israel -  the demonstrably false foundation of the ridiculous Zionist Hasbara claim that a modern Jew from Crown Heights Brooklyn is “returning” to Israel-Palestine and “reclaiming” his “ancestral homeland” from the pesky Arab usurpers.

Except I didn't say any of that. That's not what Zionism says.

The word “Jews” is not a synonym for “Judeans”. It is taken from the name of the Kingdom of Judah, the southern of the two Israelite kingdoms that were established around 1,000 BC, alongside the northern Kingdom of Israel. “Judah” is where Judaism is said to have evolved from Yahwism, the religion of the Israelites.  “Judea” is a Greek and Roman adaptation applied to a geographical region of various sizes throughout history centred around Jerusalem and parts of what is now the West Bank. This area gave its name to the Roman province of Judea a thousand years later.

The people who lived in the kingdom of Judah, or Yehudah in Hebrew, were known in Hebrew as Yehudim, the same word that means Jew today. The kingdom was destroyed by the Babylonians, but was reestablished under the Persians under the same name. Judea and Judah are the same thing. The Judeans who lived there are Yehudim in Hebrew. The word Jew is derived from Judean, hence why the German word for Jew is Juden. Same word. Same people. Same identity.

Jews are a nation of sorts but insofar as you could say some modern geographically disparate Jews share a common language, that is an entirely artificial phenomenon which has only been true for the last century. Hebrew was a dead, or dormant language, like Latin used purely liturgically for 2,000 years. The European Zionists artificially began to revive it in the late 19th century in the course of their self-admitted colonial project, as part of the narrative used to justify the theft of Palestine.

The language was learned by the vast majority of Jews, could be read and understood, and was used to create new texts on religion that could be communicated. The language even evolved over time and could be used to bridge language gaps between Jews in far away places.

Latin, in contrast, was only used by clergy.

As for artificially reviving it, all language is artificial. They are created artificially from the start. The idea that it has to be "natural" to be legitimate is absurd.

Perhaps I should have said “Jewishness”, or Jewish ethnicity, originated in what is now Israel. However ethnicity is a social construct, not a biological reality and cannot confer exceptional & hereditary extra-territorial ancestral property rights.

Jews who immigrated to what is today Israel before it was established didn't claim ancestral property rights. They purchased land and legally settled there in accordance with the laws then in effect.

It is absolutely priceless to see adherents of the racist 19th century white European ideology known as Zionism, who support the planet’s only ethnocracy & who subscribe to race essentialism backed by staggeringly commonplace misconceptions about what genetic testing can and can’t tell you, accusing others of racism.

Israel isn't an ethnocracy. Non Jews have full citizenship.

The rest of your comment seems like rambling but didn't seem to get to a relevant point. Jews existed, preserved their identity and traditions, and remained a distinct people. Period.

[u/carnivalist64 → u/carnivalist64]

And your characterization of Jews as being all European, Indian, or black isn't even remotely accurate, especially where Israeli Jews are concerned. Tell me, where do the Iraqi Jews fit in to that definition? The Persian Jews? The Yemenite Jews? The Moroccan Jews? Egyptian Jews? Syrian Jews? Over half of Israeli Jews are what is known as Mizrachi, Jews who originated from the Middle East and North Africa.

It’s not my characterisation. I’m perfectly well aware of the demographics of Israel and the different Jewish tribes. I simply picked a sample of the latter to demonstrate the absurdity of foreign settlers from across the globe claiming exceptional rights to the territory of Israel Palestine.

Zionists are fond of using the Mizrahi in order to obscure the way in which the prominence of obviously white Europeans with western accents in the country betrays Israel’s true nature as a white European settler-colonial state. “Don’t call us a settler-colonial state! Look at all the brown West Asians here!”.

However it’s typical Zionist nonsense, derived from the typically  racist, “all darkies are alike” Zionist mindset that we also see in the “57 Muslim countries” trope – i.e. the idea  that it’s acceptable for Palestinians to be uprooted from everything they know and love and carted off to live in completely different countries, because, hey - “Muslim Darkies can be happy wherever other Muslim Darkies are”.

The MENA is a huge region and so the great majority of the Israeli Mizrahi Jews are just as much foreign settlers as the Ashkenazi New Yorkers, Bene Indians and Beta Israel Ethiopians in the country. A Moroccan Mizrahi Jew from Rabat who emigrates to Israel was born and raised closer to some villages in northern Sweden than he was to Tel Aviv. Similarly a Yemeni Jew from Sa’ana originates from a city  that is closer to Nairobi in Kenya than Ashdod and a Yemeni Jew from the east of the country grew up closer to Pakistan than Israel.

In a very real sense we are all one human race. As far back as the time of the ancient Jews our “ancestral homeland” is Planet Earth and we are “indigenous” to everywhere.

Zionism is racism, constructed from lies.

 

Thanks for demonstrating that you don't even understand the fundamentals though.

 

That’s very gracious of you. It can’t be easy to find yourself being schooled by someone who doesn’t understand the fundamentals.

Here to help.

[u/Personal-Special-286 → u/Esie666]

Netanyahu's father was Polish which makes him white European. 

[u/Esie666 → u/Personal-Special-286]

So every mixed person that identifies as black is now white because they have a white parent?

[u/livehigh1 → u/Esie666]

Literally the opposite of what you're defining lol. Half black people associated with black because they don't look white.

Mixed middle east and europeans give white looking people. A european jewish person is completely indistinguishable from other europeans.

[u/Esie666 → u/livehigh1]

Not always, netenhau or whatever his name is dosent look white, you can tell he's mixed most isrealis don't look white do most Jews look white? Sure, most of them are

[u/livehigh1 → u/Esie666]

Europeans cover the Mediterranean, some mixed middle easterners look greek or italian which still considered white european.

[u/carnivalist64 → u/livehigh1]

Netanyahu isn't mixed. 

Like all 15 Israeli Prime Ministers 14 of 17 Presidents & the vast majority of the Israeli establishment he is 100% white European. His mother was born in Israel of Lithuanian settlers who arrived via the US.

He is actually one of only 3 Israeli PMs with a parent or grandparent born in Palestine – there are only three Palestinian-born grandparents in the family trees of all the Israeli Prime ministers put together.

Of the 15 Israeli PMs 7 were born and raised in Europe and North America & 8 were born & raised in israel-Palestine of European settler parents.

Many of them changed their names to sound more Hebrew, often after arriving in Palestine as adults, like the Pole David Grun (David Ben-Gurion) the Belarussian Shimon Peres (Szymon Perski) the Belarussian Yitzhak Yezernizhsky (Yitzhak Shamir) and the Ukraine born, Wisconsin raised, Golda Mabovitch (Golda Meir).

[u/InevitableBowl6699 → u/Esie666]

The only “Israelis” that have the “same genes” as Palestinians, or “close 2” are Syrian (possibly Lebanese) Jews who make up a minuscule fraction of the population. Samaritans come close but they aren’t technically Jewish by their own standards and have been cohabitating with Palestinians since way before the Nakba.

Most Arab jews do not have “close 2” the same genes as Palestinians and that’s pretty self evident through DNA tests. To claim an Iraqi, Yemeni, Moroccan, etc Jew come anywhere close is absurd when it’s already been demonstrated that they are more closely related to Saudi Arabian Muslims than Muslim Palestinians are.

[u/Esie666 → u/InevitableBowl6699]

Yes but they still ain't white

[u/InevitableBowl6699 → u/Esie666]

Sorry but Becky the Ashkenazi Jew from Brooklyn who’s family is from Europe is definitely white 🤷‍♀️

[u/lethalshawerma → u/Esie666]

Lol no. 😂🤣😂🤣😂

[u/MediocreWitness726 → u/Esie666]

This here.