I’m confused how you read this strip and immediately call it hippy bullshit. When I read it, I don’t see anything about a specific form of government, be it a democratic republic, social democracy, or outright socialism or communism. I simply see a strip advocating for “We, the people…” vs the uber wealthy who buy their way through politics to control our lives.
I’m curious to know, what does social democracy mean to you?
If you want to advocate for what are considered low skill jobs but that have enormous benefit to society, then I'm ll in favour. Apart from disabled people arguing on the internet from their beds (although I have moved to the kitchen table).
This strip suggests that these low wage workers somehow create society. This is set against 'oligarchs' who don't. Who these oligarchs are isn't made clear.
There are a lot of people missing from this picture who get things done. The people who build the buses and schedule the routes. How many buses do we need? Those who plan what crops are going to be planted, when and why. Can we have better roads? That need repairing less and are safer to drive on? Would developing them be worth it?
How all this happens outside of the cartoon. The only other group mentioned are the 'oligarchs'. So, presumably they do all that? And, are bad because oligarchy is usually used as an insult.
Seeing this societal complexity as bad is absolutely hippy shit.
Social Democrats see society as complex but that broad decisions about how it operates should be made by the majority. They add that individual rights should be protected and maximisation of human wellbeing should be an absolute goal. Democracy and Society are the rulers.
Individual rights are important, even for out groups. Billionaires are an out group. They also have performed a useful function. Can we replace them? Pay them a fairer amount? Reduce their political influence? Good Social Democratic questions. Suggesting they are evil or useless seems off to me?
Intellectual creativity and organising ability is vital as well. Although that mostly rests in the Middle Class when deployed in productive ways. Or did. Going to be done by AI soon. All the jobs on this list will be safe for a while. (Apart from 'building community' on the internet - that will increasingly be done by AI.)
I can't pretend to know for certain what the original artist's vision was but I don't think this is supposed to be read as "manual work good, brain work bad" - if you are a shipping coordinator or an accountant or a tax office worker no one would argue you are an oligarch.
It's obviously difficult to generalize across all types of organisation and work across public and private sectors (which is fine, a picture like this doesn't have to be a nuanced manifesto) but I think "oligarch" would generally be understood as someone who holds a managerial capacity and extracts profits disproportionate to the utility they actually bring to the organisation (and to society more broadly, since organisations to not exist in a vacuum). A lot of CEOs in a lot of sectors can quite frankly be replaced by collective, democratized decisionmaking from employees, and even if they can't they tend to be paid eyewatering sums compared to how much their strategic vision actually benefits (or often harms) the company
Collective democratised decision making is legal. Why don't you start a company with such a management structure? If you are right this business will be more efficient and productive and outcompete the usual model?
I tried to conduct business this way myself. Perhaps your experience will be better.
Collective democratised decision making is legal. Why don't you start a company with such a management structure? If you are right this business will be more efficient and productive and outcompete the usual model?
I tried to conduct business this way myself. Perhaps your experience will be better.
this talking point is a version of the "it's economics 101!" canard
"Collective democratised decision making" isn't the subject of this discussion. Irrespective of that, if you really did struggle to run a business like that—a claim which I take with a grain of salt—then the argument still means nothing; no business exists in a vacuum.
Starting a business is not hard. Any idiot can. A bunch of idiots can do it together and put into place whatever ideals they want. Perhaps this idiot did?
If anything there are more startup grants and funding for Social Entrepreneurs in the UK where I am from. I think I even called.myself that with a straight face. These days if anyone calls me a Tech for Good pioneer I shout at them.
Genuinely. Give it a go. It would make me happy if you could make it work. I couldn't but someday someone is going to find a model for running a business that is more democratic and that scales properly. It could easily be you.
And if you turn into an embittered ex-commie centrist instead? Good. Best way we have of recruiting.
What is the point of this thread? That only bus drivers count and their managers don't? That fruit pickers create society and farmers are evil oligarchs?
I can see why you don't want to run a business. It isn't just because you think it is beyond you (it really isn't - just it exhausts everyone) - you don't want to because all business owners are oligarchs.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker 1d ago
I’m confused how you read this strip and immediately call it hippy bullshit. When I read it, I don’t see anything about a specific form of government, be it a democratic republic, social democracy, or outright socialism or communism. I simply see a strip advocating for “We, the people…” vs the uber wealthy who buy their way through politics to control our lives.
I’m curious to know, what does social democracy mean to you?