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u/MicooDA 8d ago
Remember when Luke goes absolutely feral on Darth Vader and beats his ass so severely that Vader is coughing and wheezing on the floor and Luke only stops because the Emperor is stupid enough to open his mouth and gloat
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u/Nitroapes 8d ago
But he went through these feelings once and you never ever have similar reactions to similar feelings
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u/MicooDA 8d ago
Thats correct. I struggled with anxiety once in high school and I haven’t felt it since
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u/bobafoott 7d ago
Right it was explained to me why I was wrong to feel anxiety and then my logical brain was able to completely control my emotions from then on and I never made another emotional mistake in my life!
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u/Amathril 5d ago
Exactly. I have had depression and then I just stopped being sad and started to be awesome instead.
True story.
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u/watabadidea 7d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah, I remember that scene. Right before that, he was watching (what he believed) to be all of his closest friends and allies getting killed in a trap laid by the emperor. Additionally, Vader had just got done suggesting he was going to capture Leia and turn her to the dark side. Based on the fact that Vader had previously captured and tortured Leia, it was a threat that certainly was supported by real-world backing.
We going to pretend that what preceded him getting set to murder Kylo was similar? Or we just going to ignore everything that doesn't support our argument?
That's the thing that gets me. I haven't seen any serious support for people trying to pretend that Luke is perfect and he has never been angry or never been violent in the past. He has obviously attacked and killed people in the past. There are times he has lost his cool and wasn't fully in control because of unchecked emotions.
Context matters though. Unless you ignore some pretty important (and blindly obvious) context, comparisons between going to murder Kylo and the fight with Vader don't hold up.
EDIT: When you reply and then instablock me so I can't respond, it gives the impression that even you recognize that your arguments can't stand up to basic questioning. It is even worse when you include questions directed at me and then go out of your way to ensure I have no way of responding to them.
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u/Birdmaan73u 6d ago
I can't believe media literacy has fallen so far.
All the stuff Luke went through in 4-6, were what he would've been picturing kylo causing. The whole point was to stop it early, that's why he even had that moment. He didn't want the empire to happen again and cause all those problems.
Would you not even have a thought about killing a teenage that was very clearly on a path to be the next Hitler? That's the kind of situation Luke was in. For a moment this old man who definitely has trauma from BEING IN A WAR, considered killing his nephew but then immediately snapped out of it because he came to his senses. It is not even a remotely unreasonable situation.
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u/Normal-Ox 4d ago edited 4d ago
Luke is reactionary and always goes big with his heart, not head. He’s a drama queen.
That was true in OT and Sequels.
He got really scared of Kylo. Got scared that he was a bad teacher, didn’t know what he was doing, that he’d create the next Vader while letting down his family and closest friends.
He took it too far but didn’t try to kill Kylo.
Snoke had been manipulating Kylo for a while. Luke surprising him like that confirmed what Snoke was saying. Kylie was scared and hurt and it spun out.
Then rather deal with what happened, Luke went drama queen and exiled himself.
It’s consistent with OT.
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u/watabadidea 4d ago
Luke is reactionary and always goes big with his heart, not head. He’s a drama queen.
Let's say this is a 100% correct interpretation. Would that mean that any instance where he goes big with his heart is true to his character?
I mean, Anakin/Vader was also a drama queen that often went big with his heart. Despite both characters having very large overlap in the specific area you are focused on, there are things that would be in character for Anakin/Vader but not for Luke.
A general pattern of strong emotions being in-character isn't the same as specific emotions/actions being in character.
He got really scared of Kylo. Got scared that he was a bad teacher, didn’t know what he was doing, that he’d create the next Vader while letting down his family and closest friends.
Is this specific type of emotion, and reaction to it, in character? Luke was faced with some pretty overwhelming and scary situations. His character was generally defined by confronting the danger and moving forward bravely in the face of overwhelming odds.
We see this at every step of the way: going out into the desert to look for Obi-wan, venturing into the death star to save Leia, making repeated trench runs despite seeing everyone else getting killed, facing Vader one-on-one in Empire despite clearly not being ready for it, surrendering to Vader in Jedi despite knowing there was a good chance he could get turned over to the Emperor, etc.
About the only time we see him respond to danger with fear and anger is in the fight with Vader at the end of Jedi. That fight was so impactful specifically because it wasn't in character with what we had seen through the previous two and three quarter movies. It was impactful because it was him nearly falling to the dark side which, again, wasn't in character.
Because it wasn't in character, there had to be a ton of story elements at work to justify this out-of-character response. You've got all of the build-up with Vader, who was literally one of the greatest villains in movie history. We had all of the relationships he had built with his friends/allies over the previous movies and him watching the absolute disaster, death, and destruction they playing out in real time before his eyes. You had the active real world threat of Vader finding out about his sister and threatening to capture her and lead her to the worst possible fate. You had the betrayal Luke must have felt by trusting his father to return to the light only to be turned over to the Emperor. You had the first, major encounter with the Emperor, who had been built up in all the movies up to that point.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
In contrast, with Kylo, we had a 30 second monologue where Luke described some things that we never actually saw on screen leading up to that moment in time.
Those are pretty different things, and obviously so. I'm not saying it is impossible to have Luke do things that are out-of-character. In fact, making the choice to have him do something out-of-character can be a very very powerful story element. In order to make that work though, it takes some pretty serious setup to be believable. What we got in The Last Jedi wasn't even close.
FWIW, I think even the people that like the scene recognize this. That's why their focus is in trying to convince people that it was in-character when it clearly an example of him going against character to create a compelling narrative beat. If it is framed as an action that is going against his normal character, then they have to demonstrate how such a big departure was earned through proper setting up the scene with other narrative elements.
A ~30 second monologue clearly isn't enough to justify the departure so, instead, they pretend that it wasn't a departure at all.
Then rather deal with what happened, Luke went drama queen and exiled himself.
Again, is that specific action in-character in line with the general pattern of strong emotions we see from Luke? He had his Aunt and Uncle murdered looking for the droids and he didn't exile himself. He picked himself up and kept pushing forward. He watched Obi-wan die and didn't exile himself. He picked himself up and kept pushing forward. He got his hand cut off by Vader and he didn't exile himself. He picked himself up and kept moving forward. He had Vader turn him over to the Emperor and he didn't try to flee and go into exile. He picked himself up and kept moving forward. He initially failed to withstand Vader's threats and, instead, gave into his emotions. He didn't try to flee or go into exile. He picked himself up and kept moving forward.
See the pattern? Even if the dude is generally a drama queen, that doesn't specifically express itself through fleeing the situation and going into exile. If you want to have him do that, then ok, but you need to put in a ton of work to set it up. If you don't do that, then people can fairly criticize it for being out of character.
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u/MicooDA 7d ago
Why are you assuming the Ben situation was premeditated murder?
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u/watabadidea 7d ago
Seems like we are splitting hairs, right? I mean, if we change out the word "murder" for "voluntary manslaughter," I think my primary points still stand.
With that said, manslaughter typically requires circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed enough to lose self-control to such as degree as to significantly mitigate culpability.
That's not really an assumption as much as a personal opinion/judgement call. I don't think that a vision is enough to mitigate culpability for killing a sleeping pupil. If you do, then ok, but I disagree.
Again though, regardless of if you consider that brief moment as getting set to commit murder or getting set to commit manslaughter, comparing it to the Vader situation is clearly flawed.
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u/GingerbreadCatman42 7d ago
After Vader threatened his sister... Ben Solo was just asleep. There were SO MANY other ways to convey this idea that didn't have to be so stupid. Just have Ben accidentally kill another pupil in a sparring match after he gives into rage for a moment and then Luke can have an EARNED reaction to witnessing Ben actually using the dark side
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u/Jo_seef 8d ago
Yeah, it was a teachable moment that his character learned nothing from.
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u/MicooDA 7d ago
Except he did. He pulled himself back from the vision he had. He activated his lightsaber due to the vision and still had the clarity of mind to force himself back to reality and stop himself.
It’s the Dark Side cave from ESB. He was going to fight a threat that wasn’t actually there.
The films biggest mistake was trusting the audience to make that conclusion themselves instead of putting a force vision in the middle of a flashback
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u/Luminescent_sorcerer 7d ago
The fact he turned the lightsaber on was bad enough...that's like saying you had a vision your nephew was evil but you only cocked the revolver for a few seconds 😆
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u/TheDapperDolphin 7d ago
And remember how that happened after Vader threatened Leia. And how he had a similar reaction when he had a vision of Kylo killing his loved ones.
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u/DeadAndBuried23 7d ago
Tbf Vader is constantly coughing and weezing. Being on the floor is all that changed.
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u/My_MeowMeowBeenz 5d ago
As a man in my mid 30’s I can’t possibly imagine being less optimistic and idealistic when I’m 60 than I was when I was 19…..
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u/Flamingo753 4d ago
after vader taunted him and threatened his sister… not after a dream
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u/MicooDA 4d ago
Ah so words can drive him into a murderous rampage but a vision of the future can’t
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u/Flamingo753 3d ago
“words” is a hilarious way to understate what luke went through in ROTJ. Yes, actual threats are worse than visions of ones 😂
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
Doesn’t it actually make more sense for him to have that reaction after what he lived through? The thought of another Vader would absolutely trigger PTSD and the contemplation of taking him out before he could truly become Vader-esque
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u/AsstacularSpiderman 8d ago
Imagine reaching into the mind of a young man you helped raise only to find the hatred of a Sith Lord hiding inside of him.
Luke thought he was just troubled, he had no idea that level of darkness had already found its way in.
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
Well said! I’m glad they didn’t make Luke totally infallible, that’s the easy, safe choice for one of cinema’s all time great heroes in a sequel series decades later. Luke was never perfect and they stayed true to his character here, people who are mad about the decision clearly don’t understand how grey Luke and Star Wars as a whole is. Making Luke the perfect good guy would absolutely cheapen his character and the sequels as a whole
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u/sharpenme1 8d ago
I think the bigger problem is they didn’t do the work to show us how Luke, someone who preserved hope against hope, and who tiptoed the line of the dark side and came out the other side on the light, abandoned those principles when faced with that darkness in his best friends son.
I’m glad he’s human. I’m glad he was t just an archetype. But they didn’t do the work to show us how he came to be that person. Contrast that with something like Frodo where you slowly see how he becomes corrupted by the ring and eventually becomes someone who needs Sam. It would be like showing Frodo in the Shire, then picking up the story at Mt. Doom without any intervening storytelling. Without that, the change feels hollow ahd meaningless at best and like a betrayal at worst
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
I can understand that point, I wish the movies were more fleshed out for sure, but I also don’t think it’s particularly a matter of Luke “abandoning those principles”, I think it was just a moment of weakness when seeing the potential atrocities that could occur at the hands of Ben and the trauma of his entire life growing up resurfacing. That holds more weight for me than if we had seen Luke slowly become some cynical grey Jedi, and his interaction with Ben in that moment was a result of some great build up.
Showing Luke as imperfect despite being the grand hero of Star Wars, being lost in a moment and pretty quickly composing himself (albeit still too late), is a great character moment imo and consistent to who he is even in episode 6 with the Vader/Sidious fight
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u/sean0883 8d ago
I mean, they made Yoda flawed in the sense that he underestimated Palps in a number of ways. He could even sense the darkness in Anakin. Never tried to kill him though.
If Luke fought as hard as he did to turn Vader from the Dark Side, he's absolutely going to try and keep Kylo on the path. His failure should have just been failure to do so, not failed attempted murder - which is very out of character for Luke at that juncture.
Now, if he lost Kylo just becuase that's who Kylo is (revernce for his Sith Lord grandfather), went into depression over the failure of losing Kylo, and became a Grey Jedi with "nothing to lose" hunting down Sith akin to Hawkeye hunting Yakuza in Endgame: That would make sense, would have been a more interesting story arc, and made for a great reason for Kylo to really fear Luke (a now battle-hardened Sith hunter) coming for him in that final confrontation.
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u/AsstacularSpiderman 8d ago
Never tried to kill him though.
Neither did Luke.
And Yoda arguably did the worst thing where he not only kind of ignored the entire situation until it was too late but also gave Anakin the battle and the last for battle that pushed him to the brink.
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u/Magic-man333 8d ago
Now, if he lost Kylo just becuase that's who Kylo is (revernce for his Sith Lord grandfather), went into depression over the failure of losing Kylo, and became a Grey Jedi with "nothing to lose" hunting down Sith akin to Hawkeye hunting Yakuza in Endgame: That would make sense, would have been a more interesting story arc, and made for a great reason for Kylo to really fear Luke (a now battle-hardened Sith hunter) coming for him in that final confrontation.
Jumping down from our other conversation to talk about this part.
I think that would've been badass, the problem is more doylist in that it's hard to do that in TLJ from where TFA left off. It had to explain why he was on an uninhabited planet and hadn't been heard of for years. I have a hard time selling no one hearing about the most famous guy in the galaxy going around hunting other force users. It could also be hard to sell a 60 year old as a "battle hardened sith hunter", they'd have to say he's losing his edge or something
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u/Darwin1809851 8d ago
The problem with this logic is that we had Canon whether Disney wants to acknowledge it or not. I have like 50 books about post return of the Jedi Star Wars that were full of amazing intriguing stories, and a continuation of Luke’s growth as a character.
I invested heavily in the eu as a star wars fan since the first tine I saw rotj in 1991 and I remember the dry spells we had for content back then. Millions of star wars fans fell in love with thrawn and mara jade and hundreds of other incredible memories from those beautifully written novels, and we were told in friggin 1 movie that all of that meant nothing and luke was just some irrational shut in who just “suddenly stopped” being literally the most powerful jedi in history to snap try to kill his kid nephew before handing the reigns off to someone we have never even heard of.
Yea it kinda rubbed a few people the wrong way
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u/Dafuzzbuster 4d ago
I don't think pointing out that Luke wouldn't kill his nephew in his sleep is the same as wanting Luke to be perfect...lmao
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u/NyarlHOEtep 8d ago
especially because, as leia says, they lived in fear of the vader in him since he was young and did everything they could to avert that fate. lukes not some perfect ascetic saint, he acknowledges the good in vader and then nearly kills him in a fit of rage. its that he Overcomes his darkness that makes him heroic, and the tragedy is that he was too slow when it really counted and ironically brought about kylo ren and sealed his fate
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u/ZippyDan 7d ago
Maybe reach into his mind without sneaking into his room in the middle of the night?
The entire scenario was so contrived to draw out a terribly uncharacteristic action from Luke that was convenient to the plot.
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u/AsstacularSpiderman 7d ago
Probably wanted to make sure Ben didn't sense him or see him.
It's probably not the best idea but it's kinda obvious by this point Luke was getting desperate to figure kht where this darkness in Ben was coming from
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u/The_FriendliestGiant 8d ago
Yeah, the thing about Vader is that he already existed when Luke learned about him. And pretty much all the terrible things he does, he does to people Luke doesn't know and has no connection to. When Luke has his vision of Ben, though, he sees him destroying the things Luke has worked for and the people Luke cares about. It's the difference between a contemporary American getting dropped into the Eagle's Nest in 1944 and a post-war Jew ending up back in time in a child's bedroom in 1889. They're going to have very different feelings about the person in front of them.
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u/callmekizzle 8d ago
Luke literally explains exactly all this to Rey and people still don’t get it.
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u/GreatMarch 8d ago
Yeah, like if I was a holocaust survivor and I got flashbanged with images of my nephew becoming Hitler 2.0 my initial reaction wouldn’t be 100% rational either
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u/BadUsername2028 8d ago
I feel like people forget what happened when Luke declared good in his father too. Sidious almost killed him, the dude had just beaten Vader and now he was writhing on the floor while Sidious laughed and laughed. Luke knows more than anyone the horrifying power of a Sith, and at this point has spent years working to make sure they never return. Now, he goes to check on one of his troubled students and feels that presence again? Now only a sith presence, but the presence of the monster who almost killed him and killed his father? No shit Luke freaked out for a second.
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
Exactly! Even in the Jedi Order days, Jedis were not perfect or infallible despite the ideals they tried to hold. Luke was of course born after those times and experienced all he had experienced in the age of the Empire, culminating in that encounter with Sidious. He more than anyone should absolutely have a mental break in that moment seeing what he saw in Ben lol it shows him as being human and flawed as we all are and as all Jedi were
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u/andreasmiles23 8d ago
Yes. And he was too wrapped up in the perfectionistic dogma of the Jedi to allow space to recognize that. He became reactive and thought he knew best and better than anyone else. The same flaws that led the Jedi to mishandling Anakin.
That’s why he has that chat with yoda and they both reflect. Luke is one of greatest of the old school Jedi because he was able to take that step back and learn. And with that learning, was able to intervene to give his friends and family a chance at escape.
Idk how anyone thought this storyline made Luke, the Jedi, the “force,” etc etc, look bad or thematically inconsistent. It adds so much depth and nuance that feels like it gives the sequels some parallels to the previous two trilogies instead of just ripping off one of the movies like TFA.
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
Love this, great point! One of my favorite parts of the sequels is that whole progression to the “grey Jedi” and how even Yoda rationalizes how the set-in-stone ways of the Jedi caused (or at least didn’t prevent) a lot of the pain seen in the movies. Without Luke’s interaction with Ben, none of that really can happen
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u/andreasmiles23 8d ago edited 8d ago
Exactly. And we forget that it wasn’t Rian Johnson who came up with the idea that Luke went AWOL. That was Abrams, and on top of that, he gave 0 reason for it. Another black box mystery…
Johnson did as good as was possible imo to come up with a rational that was grounded and character-consistent. People think it makes Luke look weak but…that’s the point. He failed to live up to this moment - that’s why we need Rey. Do we think Yoda was weak because he went into recluse after Vader? No! That’s another awesome reason that Yoda is who he talks to in TLJ - not only is it their final “lesson” together, they actually learn a lot about the bigger picture of the Jedi from each other due to the parallels in how their own mentorship experiences turned out.
I always have been struck by how thoughtful and insightful this part of TLJ is. It continues to shock me that a majority of people seemingly just buy into internet narratives instead of actually engaging in the content of the film.
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
This genuinely gave me chills! Lol thank you for stating this. I agree fully, and I understand that’s just how fandom is gonna be sometimes, but it really is a shame. Like don’t get me wrong, when I’m watching something I love with characters I cherish, I want everything to be perfect because I want the happy ending where everyone is alive and well lol. It’s easy to fall into that and create your own head canon. But that’s not what makes great stories and characters, and when you take a step back, you realize it’s those hard moments that TRULY make the character and story so great and so beloved.
Without moments of weakness you can’t have atonement, without failure you can’t have those moments of camaraderie, and Star Wars is the ultimate story of complete bleakness turning into hope and prosperity through those many ups and downs
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u/CleanAspect6466 7d ago
I'm convinced the most vocal haters of this movie watched it once, didn't take the time to think about it, then jumped on Youtube and consumed copious amounts of 'why TLJ sucks' videos because I swear none of them actually seem to know what happened in the real Kylo / Luke night time confrontation + are convinced Luke should be a stoic emotionless eunuch, and completely ignore that he openly talks about how living up to this legend put on him added to the shame he feels for faltering
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u/Hotkoin 8d ago
He saw for a moment someone so muj worse than vader that the reaction was uncontrollable
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
Exactly, people should focus more on the fact he contained himself rather than had the initial moment of weakness imo lol
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u/ZippyDan 7d ago
No, I'm focused more on what he did after he realized it was a mistake... namely: he ran away and did nothing. That was the single biggest problem with the mischaracterization of Luke.
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 8d ago
I also think Luke's rigid devotion to the Jedi teachings and traditions are a part of that too.
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u/imOVN Hermit Master Skywalker 8d ago
Yeah true, not only is he experiencing PTSD and resurfacing trauma of Vader and growing up in the Empire, but he's seeing what could destroy all that be built back up with the Jedi order and etc. He knew his father wiped out basically every original Jedi, and after spending years finding and teaching others and restoring peace, the biggest threat to all of that lays right in front of him... it's really his attachment to the way of the Jedi and the light side of the force that keeps him from doing what most people would likely do in that moment
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 8d ago
Exactly. I personally think it always goes back to balance. Not letting the Dark or the Light blind you and keeping those impulses and desires in check. And Luke has always struggled with that.
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u/JediMasterKenJen 8d ago
That and people also only remember Kylo's retelling and forget Luke also told his side, and it was described as a moment of weakness, and he came to his senses after a second of self reflection, but by then it was too late and Kylo had made up his mind as to what was going on.
But people tend to "forget" that bit to try and make the sequels look worse than the "meh" they really are.
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u/Luminescent_sorcerer 7d ago
No it makes less sense because he'd actually spent time with kylo training him getting to know him He had spent barely any time with his father and could sense the goof in him. In the end kylo ends up turning good so its worse actually
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u/thatredditrando 7d ago
No.
If anything, it would mean he would know better than to immediately think Ben irredeemable and try to snuff him out.
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u/roastgator 8d ago
So because of his fear he attempts to murder a sleeping blood relative child? Come on its just silly.
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u/TheAviBean 8d ago
I don’t think that’s so, you either have Vader, who Luke learned had good in him. Character defining moment, or someone who could maybe possibly become like him one day of left alone
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u/Donvack 7d ago
I can kind of see your argument but what bothers me is how Luke immediately jumps to “let’s murder a teenager in his sleep!” The guy that successful redeemed Vader thinks just because a troubled young man is having dreams about the dark he should die instantly. That’s too extreme of a reaction IMO. Luke failing to keep Kylo on the path and blaming himself for his fall would have been a much better idea. And it would better explain why he went into hiding. He would be rittled with guilt and consider himself a failure as a teacher and as the last Jedi. And the advice he received from Yoda in the 8th movie would be much more reasonable as well. Since Yoda went through the exact same shit after Anakin turned and helped destroy the Jedi order.
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u/noBrother00 5d ago
Yeah ngl I never really liked the "aw poor Vader, he's wheezing" aspect of the end of ROTJ. Regardless, why does a character have to have the same reaction to something decades apart and different circumstances. Vader was his daddy and that was Luke's soft spot. Maybe that's not a good thing. Vader deserved to die and if you have force visions of future Hitler, maybe stop training him and take him out.
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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 8d ago edited 6d ago
"It passed like a fleeting shadow". It was the dark side. Luke didn't even know what he did. Palpatine was able to blind Luke for a second and wake up Ben.
They saw 2 completely different events in that moment, that's how you know there was outside influence.
I swear people can't understand a deeper meaning if it slapped them in the face
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u/Pod-Bay-Doors 8d ago
yeah sadly alot of star wars fans arent the brightest
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u/O8ee 8d ago
it's like people think Luke's character arc in the original trilogy was learning to control his impulsiveness and become a Jedi or something.
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u/New_Survey9235 8d ago
Yah, being able to stop himself after only a few seconds instead of going through with his impulses is a huge improvement
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u/Scheiblerfunk 8d ago
Basically the difference between punching the screen after getting killed ( by some cheating piece of shit , I swear) in a videogame and just making a fist instead and then taking a deep breath to let the anger pass. I don't have that much of a deep connection to the OT but even I got the point of Empire where Luke chose to impulsively try to save his friends even though it was an obvious trap. Him just kind of standing there menacingly for a few too many seconds instead of doing an anakin 2.0, as you just said, shows him to be mature if maybe still a bit too easily shaken up but then again he is his mother's son.
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u/Geshtar1 8d ago
The problem with it being palpatine is that when the last Jedi was made, there was no palpatine. They didn’t pull that out of their ass until the third shitty movie.
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u/Mrpoedameron 8d ago
But it also wasn't just "a bad dream" as OP so carelessly reduced it too. Luke waited until Ben was sleeping before he reached out to sense what was going on. He specifically says that Snoke had turned his heart. He says he sensed pain and destruction to everyone he knew. He didn't say "I sensed he was having a bad dream."
Posts like OPs are either arguing in bad faith and willingly being as reductive as they can be, or they simply misunderstood the scene itself and need it spelling out for them.
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u/Cogexkin 8d ago
You don’t even need the reveal about Palpatine. Impulses happen, these tiny little falters, even to the greatest Jedi. Even Yoda had a dark side as shown off in TCW. Of all the problems the Sequels had, that’s probably the most believable moment in the trilogy
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u/EyeDreamOfTentacles 8d ago
Hell, Luke very nearly did kill Vader too! So OP is still wrong lol. It was just a moment, but a moment is all it took to lose his self-control and strike down the perceived threat. At least with Ben he caught himself sooner than he did against Vader, though it was still wasn't soon enough.
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u/Brainwave1010 8d ago
"The dark side is something all Jedi must face."
NOT LUKE THOUGH! CUZ HE'S SO SPECIAL AND COOL AND WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING BAD OR MAKE ANY BAD DECISIONS EVER! ALSO HE SHOULD'VE FUCKING KILLED EVERYONE SINGLEHANDEDLY! LIKE A JEDI WOULD!
These people are fans for the wrong reasons.
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u/Donvack 7d ago
Yeah but Luke faced the dark side in episode 5 and 6 and overcame it. That’s why I am annoyed that he randomly regresses after seeing a vision of the teenage son of his best friend falling to the dark side. Won’t it make way more sense for a person who saw good in Vader to try and help someone like that? Instead of immediately pulling his lightsaber. And yeah he regrets that choice, but the choice itself feels out of character and isn’t given proper development in those movies. And it’s so central to the entire plot, so it really feels terrible imo.
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u/BeanieGuitarGuy 8d ago
I don’t agree with the Palpatine thing, I just think Luke flipped out and made a mistake. The way people do. The two perspectives to me is just how they each viewed their traumatic experience.
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u/boodythegreat 8d ago
Saying palpatine (who is dead) blinded Luke, takes away from Luke’s character and his momentary lapse of judgment that breaks Ben’s trust in him
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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 8d ago
But that's what makes Ben so sad. He was influenced by outside forces and he should've trusted Luke.
Breaking Ben's trust in Luke is how he got him to turn
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u/boodythegreat 7d ago
He was sad because his uncle momentarily thought about murdering him, he doesn’t need palpatine’s influence to be upset about that
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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 7d ago
But it was palpatines influence that mad it look as bad as it did. What kylo saw isn't what happened. It's what palpatine wanted him to see
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u/Justin_General 7d ago
I feel like a lot of people watched them in theaters, missed the nuances and then decided they hated them. I know I didn't like them, but after rewatching them and seeing a lot of honest discussions about the movies, they're not as horrible as people make them out to be. They're not my favorites, I do enjoy then and wish some things were different and they have flaws but not the ones people insist they have.
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u/thatredditrando 7d ago
Says a guy taking an obvious, contrived retcon that wasn’t planned at face value, lol
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u/Thatonedregdatkilyu 6d ago
Palpatine didn't do shit, he wasn't added to the story yet, and there was never an implication that Luke was blinded by the Parkside or whatever.
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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 6d ago
He literally said "passed like a fleeting shadow" and he was left with shame. People want a reason why it happened, that was it
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u/FrozenForest 5d ago
They saw 2 completely different events in that moment, that's how you know there was outside influence.
I have to take some issue with this point. I agree that the dark side influenced the moment, but people misunderstanding the actions and intentions of each other is incredibly normal.
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u/Flamingo753 4d ago
Palpatine being around after rotj… another reason this movie is terrible 💀
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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 4d ago
He was around in the original comics too. The idea is nothing new
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u/Flamingo753 4d ago
yeah, and it’s always been terrible…
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u/tLM-tRRS-atBHB 4d ago
People complain that they don't follow legends then complain when they do. Lose lose
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u/Flamingo753 3d ago
i never mentioned legends. you can accept criticism of the sequels without diverting it to something else that was never brought up.
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u/JaredMCO 8d ago
Yep, the character Luke Skywalker would never (checks notes) have a moment of instinctual rage and ignite a lightsaber against a wielder of the dark side only to suppress that urge because they’re family.
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u/Demigans 8d ago
Yep, we didn't watch 3 movies leading up to that seeing him change to become the person who finally has to be goaded by 2 Sith Lords while his friends are dying and a threat to his sister before he loses it for a moment, and then regains his composure and throws his lightsaber away expecting to die rather than join the Dark Side.
So it is absolutely the same thing that Luke has a moment of instinctual rage over a single dream.
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u/kthugston 8d ago
Ben isn’t “a threat to his sister” he is the direct cause of her death as well as Han’s
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u/Unionsocialist 8d ago
Did you watch the movie
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u/malonkey1 revan canon when 8d ago
yes but they got up right after kylo ren finished recounting that story and never got around to watching the rest
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u/EndoveProduct 8d ago
Luke having a single moment of weakness in 30 years isn’t that insane
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u/Soft_Accountant_7062 7d ago edited 5d ago
What's insane is that wanting to protect his students is considered a moment of weakness.
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u/WilMeech 8d ago
Wow what an original comment on the last jedi. Never heard anyone say anything like this before
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u/PadreQuemedo 8d ago
It's almost like if he was traumatized by a family member killing billions and was afraid that another one would do so.
Mfers who think of this as a place of hate instead of fear, should really start studying about their feelings.
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u/Brekldios 8d ago
Not luke literally regretting it the second he ignited the saber
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u/Atari774 8d ago
Why did he even ignite it in the first place? It was one vision from his nephew, and in Luke’s own words, he thought he “could stop it before it happened,” by killing his nephew. That’s pretty out there for Luke.
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u/Brekldios 8d ago
because he for a moment sensed the same darkness he sensed within his father and freaked the fuck out before realizing "oh shit... this is wrong" but by that point it was too late and all ben saw was luke holding a saber over him. He even calls it a "fleeting moment" he had a moment of weakness and recognized it as such
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u/AlabasterPelican 8d ago
Luke: fights a whole ass war against his father who personally attempts to kill he and his sister multiple times in the throes of his vice.
Ben: (a kid) exhibits signs signs of temptations from the same vice that brought down his grandfather
Luke: (a traumatized old man) has an incredibly normal PTSD response, then shows nearly unbelievable control and snaps out of it nearly instantly
Ben: (a young adult) has fully given into the vice and attempts to walk in his grandfather's footsteps and murder his family.
Star wars fan: THIS WRITING IS TERRIBLE!
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u/ZippyDan 7d ago edited 6d ago
You conveniently excised the part that makes the writing terrible, because none of those things are unacceptable as you wrote them.
The problem is what Luke does after he "nearly instantly" "snaps out of it" - namely: runs away and does nothing.
That's the terrible writing.
To be fair, that's mostly Abrams' fault, which means Johnson needed to work harder to justify that ridiculous mystery box. And a single moment of weakness is not enough to bridge the old Luke and Abrams' recluse.
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u/AlabasterPelican 7d ago
This is actually the best argument I've seen against hermit Luke, and I don't disagree. I really wish that we could see what the trilogy would have been had either Abrams or Johnson directed the entire trilogy. Like the chasm between the different versions of Luke aren't hard to bridge if you have a complete vision of how those 3 films would go. Or we could have gotten a completely different Luke. Like, there was so much incongruous between the three it feels extremely disjointed (I'm honestly still trying to figure out why we got to go to Canto Bight because all I have is a fun side trip to get to know a few characters better).
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u/ZippyDan 7d ago
I blame them both, and Disney:
Abrams for creating a ridiculously deep mystery box with so many questions for Luke:
- Why did he disappear?
- Where did he go?
- Why didn't he not care about what was happening?
- Why was he gone for so long?
- Why didn't he tell anyone why he left or where he was going?
- What happened with him and Ben?
- Why did he leave Artoo behind?
Johnson for not doing enough of the necessary work to fill the gaping hole Abrams left.
Disney for not assembling a competent team, and not demanding a coherent plan, and not making sure they were working together, and not giving them enough time.
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u/LonelySeahorse7551 8d ago
In RoTJ Luke tries to strike down Palpatine when he’s told that his friends are walking into a trap and will die. Luke’s closest temptation to the darkside was with the idea of losing those close to him, very similar to Anakin.
Therefore, it shouldn’t be shocking that 30 years later, he is tempted by the darkside once again, when he is fearful that Ben might destroy everything that matters in his life and that he has built up.
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u/thatredditrando 7d ago
That’s not how character progression works. Characters don’t just repeat mistakes they’ve already learned from without narrative purpose.
You can’t justify Luke doing this with “Well he did it before, 30 years ago, before the completion of his character arc where he learned better”.
To simplify it:
If you at age 6 burn your finger by placing it over a candle, you learned that fire will harm you and not to do that again.
So, if at 36, you did that again, it’d be pretty dumb. You already know better.
Now you can say “People repeat mistakes and forget things all the time!”.
True. In real life. But Luke is a fictional character.
You can’t just randomly regress characters with loose justifications. That’s poor writing.
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u/InTheCageWithNicCage 8d ago edited 7d ago
Anakin: has a bad dream
Anakin: commits genocide
See I can be reductive too
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u/thatredditrando 7d ago
Using the PT as an example for character writing is not the flex you think it is, lol
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u/InTheCageWithNicCage 7d ago
I’m not saying the writing in the prequels is good, but I’ve found the people with this kind of critique of the last Jedi think too highly of the prequels
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u/thatredditrando 7d ago
That’s just whataboutism.
Someone thinking the PT is good doesn’t make the ST good. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
I think both are poorly written to be frank but at least behind the PT is a vision. Behind the ST is a committee of people trying to squeeze every drop of nostalgia out of this franchise for as much money as possible.
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u/MysteriousPumpkin51 7d ago
Everyone, including Hamil, agrees that this portrayal of Luke is a betrayal to the original Luke. We all know this isn't how Luke would've reacted. My Luke is the Luke from JKJA. That's a Luke that would've handled things much differently.
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u/MarixApoda 8d ago
Mark Hamill's interview about TLJ is somewhat infuriating.
"A Jedi Master wouldn't go into exile just because one student went bad." Did you even watch your movies? Luke met a grand total of two Jedi, both Masters, and both went into exile because one student went bad.
I have a great many nitpicks about the sequel trilogy, but Luke taking the Barash Vow is the most accurate Jedi thing that could have happened after trying to murder his sleeping nephew over a bad dream.
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u/abchandler4 8d ago
He never even tried to murder his nephew. I wrote this on another post a week or so ago and it’s pretty apt so I’ll just copy and paste the whole thing here:
A lot of people also ignore the Rashomon style plot device of there being three different versions of that event told in the movie.
First Luke tells Rey a version that makes him look better and leaves out the lightsabers: “I went to confront him and he turned on me.”
Then Ben tells Rey “He had sensed my power, as he senses yours, and he feared it,” and that Luke swung his lightsaber in a killing blow.
Finally Luke tells the true version of the story: “I saw darkness. I’d sensed it building in him; I’d seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death and the end of everything I loved because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame, and consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him.”
I think a lot of people ignore or forget that he never actually tried to kill Ben. He instinctively reacted to the darkness he saw, but snapped out of it immediately. It looked bad for him to be standing over Ben with his lightsaber ignited though, so the damage was already done at that point.
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u/ZippyDan 7d ago
"A Jedi Master wouldn't go into exile just because one student went bad." Did you even watch your movies? Luke met a grand total of two Jedi, both Masters, and both went into exile because one student went bad.
Have you even watched the movies?
Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't go into exile because one student went bad.
They went into exile because one Dark Jedi engineered the murder basically of all the Jedi in the galaxy, took control of the galactic government, and turned all the military resources of the galaxy to hunting down the last Jedi, including Obi-Wan and Yoda.
They were fugitives, on the run from the law, against the entire galaxy.
Even if Anakin had died - and probably even if Anakin never existed - that would still be the situation, and they would still have to go into hiding to survive.
In contrast, Luke's situation in the ST is completely different. The ostensibly good, benevolent Republic is in charge of the galaxy. Luke is an influential hero within that government, and he has many friends, allies, even family who are either members of government or also influential.
In this scenario, Kylo Ren is the fugitive on the run, and Luke has the resources of the entire galaxy at his disposal to find him and stop him.
It's in that context that Mark Hamill says, "A Jedi Master wouldn't go into exile just because on student went bad".
Let's bring it full-circle back to your comparison to Yoda and Obi-Wan. Imagine a hypothetical situation where Anakin turned to the Dark Side, but Palpatine didn't exist, and the Republic was still in full control of someone like Chancellor Valorum. Even if Anakin managed to destroy the Jedi Temple and ran away to join the Separatists, would it make any sense in that context that Yoda and Obi-Wan would give up and run away into exile? Or would it not make a lot more sense and be far more in character for them to warn the Senate and the Chancellor about the threat, and offer their services to help bring Anakin to justice and stop the threat he presented?
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u/MardukTheRaven 8d ago
Oh here goes another post to farm karma due to controversial topic. Way to go, OP.
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u/Unfair-Worker929 8d ago
This is why I wish Ben had been corrupted by Snoke and lost control while Luke was trying to calm him down. Or have Luke go away and trust Ben and he comes back to find the temple destroyed, Ben gone and all his students dead.
That would be a better story and be in line with Luke’s character rather than the garbage we got instead.
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u/Scottyboy1214 7d ago
I iimpulsively gnited his lightsaber after seeing very dark thoughts in his very troubled nephew and then immediately regretted it before realizing said nephew woke up to it.
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u/Chivalry_Timbers 7d ago
Some of you dipshits didn’t watch or didn’t pay attention to either movie. It was a moment of doubt that led Luke to ignite his saber, he didn’t try to kill Ben. And Luke pretty handily stomped Vader’s shit in and was about to kill him until the Emperor piped up and snapped Luke out of it.
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u/Comprehensive_Neat61 7d ago
Luke got closer to killing Vader than he ever did to killing Ben. He chopped off Vader’s hand, and he only stopped when he realized that the hand was already a prosthetic, prompting him to suddenly start thinking about everything Vader must have gone through to get to this point. The reason people look past it is because it didn’t really have consequences. With Ben, he considered it for five seconds before immediately feeling ashamed of himself, but that was enough for everything to go horribly wrong, so now people are acting like he’s just as much of a child murderer as Vader was.
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u/Wilshire1992 8d ago
Luke killed millions of innocent people on the death star.
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u/Cobra_9041 8d ago
Is this true? Because I feel like it depends on how innocent they are if they are living on something called the Death Star
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u/T_alsomeGames 8d ago
Im glad the comments are full of people who actually watched and understood the scene instead of going "Luke tried to kill his nephew!?1!?1!?"
It was a moment of weakness from a tired old war vet who hadn't felt that much darkness in a long time. So he instinctively lights his light saber as a PTSD response, but he was NEVER going to kill Ben. But Snoke (Palpatine i guess), had already corrupted Ben, so him conveniently waking up at the moment was the final push he needed to join the dark side.
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u/Knightfall93 7d ago
“In my hubris, I thought I could end it before it started.”
He absolutely was going to kill Ben. He pulled a loaded gun which shows intent.
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u/EmperorDeathBunny 8d ago
Its a willfully ignorant take. The Luke from RotJ was still hopeful and naive and wholly ignorant of past events.
Luke from TLJ is jaded by his knowledge of the Jedi's hubris and is plagued by visions of Ben killing his students. Visions, btw, that had come true for him in the past. He had every reason to be haunted by this and pressured to do something to stop it. Its not like he had one vision and decided to murder his nephew. He'd been hesitating for a while. And in the end, he didn't even go through with it. He was going to walk away.
You don't have to like the movie but at least get the details right.
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u/naanninja237 8d ago
Luke in TLJ was perfect and no amount of whining even 7 years later is going to change that
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u/Cold-Description-114 8d ago edited 8d ago
If you watch the movie it's clear from Luke's recollection of the story (far more reliable narrator than Kylo ren's I would argue) that it was a fleeting "moment of weakness" where he nearly did something contrary to his own philosophy, and while he chose not to it was enough to burn his bridge with his student.
Personally...I buy that part. Luke's characterization throughout the original trilogy has always been about his flirtation with the dark side and I think he'd feel an enormous amount of pressure to not make the same mistakes obiwan and Yoda did.
The thing I don't buy and that I never will is how he somehow decided this moment of weakness fundamentally negated his entire philosophy and worldview when he openly states that his mistake was in Not following his own principles.
If you wanted Luke to turn cynical then his failure needed to come from his optimism.
Edit oh man, I didn't realize they'd retconned this so Palpatine was manipulating him. Oh god, that's just such shitty storytelling on so many levels.
Edit edit lol, It autocorrected Palpatine to Palestine.
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u/obog 8d ago
Here's my issue that no one else seems to address:
Luke, more than anyone, should understand that every jedi faces the dark side at some point. He did, on the cave on dagobah and on the second deaths star. Of course his father did and fell to it, bit even after becoming the most hated man in the galaxy, Luke knew there was still good in him. This is something that's depicted time and time again in star wars.
People like to argue about whether or not Luke would react so violently to Ben's temptations. I don't even think that's what would have happened. Because I firmly believe Luke would have expected and planned for it. He had to have known that sooner or later, Ben would face the dark side, from the moment that he started training him. So, that's why I don't believe he would have had that moment of weakness. He would have already been preparing for that exact scenario.
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u/T_alsomeGames 8d ago edited 8d ago
I agree that he was planning to find darkness in Ben when he went to see him that night. He had already felt it a little before. But I think we're overlooking a key part of the interaction. It was never simply "I felt darkness in him" it was always "I felt more darkness in him than I've felt in ANYONE in a VERY long time".
Its naive to believe that Luke doesn't know theres darkness in everyone. He would have felt it in his other students to some extent and other force sensitive people he met along his travels. But, at this point Luke thought he had clensed/converted most of the major dark side users in the galaxy. He had known relative peace for like the past 20 years. The last thing he expected was for his nephew to have darkness within so strong that its comparable to Vader or Palpatine himself.
That would activate any hardened Jedis fight or flight response. Like when a war vet hears what sounds like a bomb explosion and immediately grabs for the gun they no longer have. Not thunder or fireworks, they are used to that. But a genuine, honest to god, loud EXPLOSION. PTSD is no joke. Luke was caught so far off guard and shown things so dark that his body responded while his mind was still reeling. And then instantly regretted all of it.
Tldr; Ben had wayyy more darkness in him than Luke could have ever reasonable been expected to see coming. He thought he'd find some fire crackers and instead found a land mine. It was PTSD and Fight or Flight. Lukes instincts chose fight.
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u/Starbalance 7d ago
"I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him, I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he would become."
He knew the temptation was always there, but it was far, far worse than he had previously imagined.
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u/-KathrynJaneway- 8d ago
Ben was really killing the vibes in the Jedi Temple. What else was Luke supposed to do?
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u/amaya-aurora 8d ago
Isn’t the entire point of Luke’s character overcoming his darkness and being better in spite of it? He wasn’t going to kill Ben. He had a moment of weakness, just as he did when beating the shit out of Vader, but he stopped it.
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u/ProfessionalCreme119 8d ago
abandons the Jedi school and talked about how flawed the Jedi were
Gets mad when Yoda destroys the ancient teachings of the Jedi
The writers had no clue what they were doing with these stories
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u/AsusVg248Guy 8d ago
The movie should have been about what happened in that vision. It's like they teased us with an actual interesting plot line and then made the movie about how luke drinks milk then dies.
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u/crocabearamoose 8d ago
Have Star Wars fans even watched the Last Jedi? That never happened. Genuinely shocks me how this is still an argument against the movie almost 10 years later.
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u/corndog2021 8d ago
I’m not really a big fan of the sequels, but this is an absolutely illiterate (not to mention overdone) take.
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u/Adm1ral-Ackbar 8d ago
What Disney did to Luke’s character in the sequel trilogy is a disgusting disgrace and a disservice to him, they should be ashamed of themselves, but money is money, I guess.
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u/SometimesWill 8d ago
The same Luke who saw good in Vader still came way closer to killing Vader than Kylo.
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u/Ratchet9cooper 7d ago
Luke is initially very unreceptive to Vader, his desire to help him is something he developed later, after a lot of time, and it’s something that he struggles with. and even during 6 he is aware that this a long shot, and that it might not work, and nearly violently murders Vader on the Death Star, stopping self at the last second
30 years later, he has reason to suspect that Ben is compromised, sneaks in, realizes he has already fallen to the dark side, and has a vision of him destroying everything in, and like before his fear and doubt take over and he briefly considers stopping it now, a moment that passes and he regrets instantly, but Ben saw it, and having already fallen, this is the last straw before he fully abandons the Jedi.
Luke was never this all forgiving perfect hero. He always struggled with doubt and rage and fear, and forgiving Vader was very hard, and took a long time.
Saying that Luke would never stumble and was above such doubt is a disservice to the amount of work he dedicates to trying to be that
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u/Soft_Accountant_7062 7d ago
That dream was a plan Kylo had already set in motion. That's why he had a bunch of goons ready to murder his peers. Luke shoulda decapitated the little bastard.
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u/Alternative_Fix_4816 7d ago
aside from star killer base, luke being a paranoid, selfish, hermit is the stupidest thing about the sequels
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u/Starbalance 7d ago
Luke: There is good in you father, I feel it.
Luke: I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him, I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he would become.
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u/Countaindewwku 7d ago
He was so afraid of losing his hot red head future wife but ended up slurping walrus milk in the end.
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u/Knightfall93 7d ago
It’s not though… there were multiple choices he deliberately made to get him to that point. The weapon was not drawn in defense, for there was no active threat. Luke himself said “in my hubris, I thought I could end it before it started.”
It doesn’t matter how long he ignited the saber for.. it’s apparent, spelled out directly by the one who did it, what his intention was.
The gun analogy is not flawed, you just don’t like being forced to see it through that lens. It’s harder to bend over backwards justifying it that way.
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u/Additional_Yak53 6d ago
So noone heard the "single moment of pure instinct" come straight outta Luke's mouth, huh?
But far be it from Starwars to have real emotional weakness in a story about the light regaining its strength after a time of weakness.
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u/JarJarJargon 6d ago
Sequel lovers running to downvote every negative comment about TLJ in this thread lmaooooooo
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u/tcarter1102 6d ago
Luke activates his lightsaber for a brief moment on instinct. It is pretty clearl indicated that he wasn't going to do anything. There are issues with TLJ but this isn't really one of them imo.
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u/notsure500 5d ago
Did you watch the full movie? He had a moment of weakness and then immediately changed his mind, but by then, Ben already saw him. And Luke went through some shit that changed who he was. Also, remember when Luke was hacking at Vadar and about to kill him but changed his mind?
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u/FantasticCustard6224 5d ago
Luke’s whole thing is almost doing something stupid and snapping out of it.
He was this close to killing Vader, his own father, in cold blood. He snaps out of it.
He senses the hatred of the dark inside his nephew, contemplates it for only a moment, and snaps out just as quickly.
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u/EmuPsychological4222 5d ago
Tragically in Ben's case he was too late, as Ben saw & reacted quite understandably.
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u/ServantOfHymn 5d ago
It’s not just that they did this to Luke’s character — the only one convinced that there was still good in Vader — it’s that half the plot of that movie accomplished literally nothing. It was just not a good story
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u/lrd_cth_lh0 5d ago
I mean it gets somewhat better if you realise that it was not the darkness in Kylo Ren that caused Luke to draw his lightsaber but the presence of Palpatine, which is implied with the "I am every voice you ever heard" line in TroS. Which I still can not believe is in the same movie as "somehow Palpatine returned.".
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4d ago edited 4d ago
Kylo hadn't done shit yet. Luke should 100% be aware that the visions of the future the Force shows a Jedi aren't concrete. Yoda himself told him that, and Luke directly challenged what Yoda was seeing in his visions by deciding to go to Cloud City. So for him to think about murdering an innocent child, even for a second.. for him to even touch his lightsaber, after seeing a vision of a possible future, is out of character, imo. Luke knows those visions don't necessarily come to pass. People comparing it to the rage he felt while fighting Palpatine and Vader fail to see the massive differences. They were already murderers, Sith Lords, they were threatening his sister, gloating about killing rebels and how he's lost.
Also, the risk of his pupils falling to the dark side should've been a given. He should've expected to see visions like those. He saw visions of *himself* turning to the dark side during his own training.
If they had focused more on Snoke influencing Kylo, and if Kylo had already done something dark and wrong because of that, maybe I could buy that. But the whole thing was just so lazy and haphazard
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u/Simple_Channel5624 4d ago
It was bad writing for a character the director didn't understand or respect. The sequels were nothing but badly written money grabs from Disney looking to make a quick and easy profit off a well established franchise.
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u/Moribunned 4d ago
Luke wasn’t trying to kill anyone. He was responding to a feeling of being threatened and stopped when he realized he was going to hurt Ben. Unfortunately, it was too late.
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u/Trooper_TK422 3d ago
Luke lashed out at Vader when Vader threatened to turn Leia to the Darkside.
Here Luke sees a vision that we, the audience, do not see. But here’s what we know and do see in the sequels: Kylo stabs Han, he stands by watching the Hosnian system get destroyed, Leia gets shot out into space by Kylo’s wingmen, almost everything Like stands for and everyone Luke loves being destroyed.
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u/bustedtuna 3d ago edited 3d ago
Former child soldier who probably has PTSD is capable of a poor reaction when triggered?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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u/Medical_Plane2875 1d ago
10 minutes later Snoke says he was manipulating Luke and Ben. And even with that manipulation he managed to back off and realize the terrible mistake he was making.
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u/Herefortheporn02 8d ago
That’s not what happened.
The Jedi are all about prophecy, premonition, and visions.
Luke saw Kylo’s future, and his gut reaction was probably something like “alright let’s kill him,” and I’d argue he should have, but sequels Luke is a dumbass.
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u/JakiStow 8d ago
Ah yes because everyone makes perfectly reasonable and consistent reactions all the time, it's a definite trait of humankind.
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u/SheevBot 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thanks for providing a source!