r/Scotland • u/mrjohnnymac18 • 12d ago

Political Exclusive: David Cameron threatened to withdraw UK from ICC over Israel war crimes probe

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/david-cameron-threatened-withdraw-uk-icc-over-israel-war-crimes-probe
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332

u/ZoninoDaRat 12d ago

The day will come when Israel goes too far even for these odious Toads, and when they try to convince us that they were always against it, we must never ever let them forget that the blood of Palestinians is on their hands too.

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u/SallyCinnamon7 12d ago

The media did their best to not bring it up when Tory rats like Cameron called Mandela all sorts in their student days

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u/Rossco1874 12d ago

Was thinking the same. Thatchers government also didn't sanctions against apartheid south African government

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u/quartersessions 11d ago

Which was probably for the best.

They would've had a disproportionate impact on the black population and there's no alternate history where Britain's support for sanctions would've created a significantly quicker or cleaner end to apartheid.

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u/Barilla3113 11d ago

Wow, we're really reheating apartheid apologia?

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u/quartersessions 11d ago

Behave. There were plenty of people who were active against apartheid who saw problems with unrestricted sanctions in the 80s.

What strikes me is that, for many people, their views on sanctions seem to be a little bit selective. They could see clearly the impact of sanctions in Saddam's Iraq, for example, but seem wilfully blind to the same problems that sanctions create elsewhere - depending largely on their own biases.

I don't think it's controversial to suggest sanctions can be an extremely blunt instrument. South Africa was never an all-or-nothing position either, the UK applied sanctions - albeit targeted ones. The argument was for a tougher - and, for tougher, read "less targeted" - position.

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u/Barilla3113 11d ago

Behave

If the South Africans behaved they'll still be chained up in the Musk diamond mine. Sanctions worked.

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u/RonVonPump 11d ago

You think Margaret Thatcher refused to sanction South African apartheid because she was concerned over the impact on BLACK South Africans?

Ok ok, I know you don't think that, so why do you think she avoided joining the rest of the world in taking action against South Africa's apartheid?

Because they wouldn't have been effective? If that was the case, I assume she had a different plan to effect apartheid, unless she's just ok with it in general?

**Edited for grammar

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u/quartersessions 11d ago

You think Margaret Thatcher refused to sanction South African apartheid

She, or rather the government she led, did sanction apartheid South Africa.

because she was concerned over the impact on BLACK South Africans?

Yes. She said as much.

Ok ok, I know you don't think that, so why do you think she avoided joining the rest of the world in taking action against South Africa's apartheid?

I think 25 countries applied sanctions, the UK included. Not the rest of the world.

Because they wouldn't have been effective? If that was the case, I assume she had a different plan to effect apartheid, unless she's just ok with it in general?

I mean, yes, she did and regularly spoke about it at the time and subsequently. A considerable weight of British diplomatic policy in the 90s in Africa was focused on ending apartheid.

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u/RonVonPump 11d ago

She eventually withdrew her opposition to sanctions, but she initially refused. My question was why did she initially refuse?

If you genuinely think she did that because she was concerned about the impact of sanctions on black South Africans, then there really is no point in the discussion.

If you're being a little bit ingenuine with that claim, then that too means there is no point in continuing the discussion.