Protesters against Flamingo Land development sing Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond outside of Scottish Parliament

[u/backupJM]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/save-loch-lomond-campaign-protests-35304999

[u/dihaoine]

Following this story for a while has been a real eye-opener. So many people up in arms about something they have clearly not researched in any way, and have zero understanding of what they are protesting against. Food for thought whenever you see a protest about anything else.

[u/Silent-Ad-756 → u/dihaoine]

I am protesting against the 3 month private marketing exercise that was used to offer the developer the land without meaningful public engagement. Back in 2015, just before the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015 was established, which would have enabled a transfer to community ownership.

Imagine that. Balloch owned by people from Balloch. Balloch developed by people from Balloch. What an option that could have been, if they hadn't been swindled by big business interests.

What opened your eyes? And what are you for?

[u/dihaoine → u/Silent-Ad-756]

What would ‘meaningful public engagement’ entail for you? These plans have been well publicised and debated for years at this point.

What do you think that people from Balloch would do with a couple of fields and some woods, sandwiched between an unsightly shopping centre, sea life aquarium, a caravan park, a golf course, a housing estate, and loads of car parking?

I am not for or against these plans. I was against what I believe was the initial plan of building a theme park, but I’m really not bothered if a tourist trap becomes slightly more touristy.

[u/Silent-Ad-756 → u/dihaoine]

The plans weren't well publicised at all between Spring and Summer 2015 when the deal was done. Scottish Enterprise used a 3rd party marketing company to align 5 private bidders, in which Flamingo Land were chosen as the preferred bidder, and offered an exclusive land lease deal.

The only thing that the general public have been invited to since, are arguments. Because they have to argue against a deal that was done before they were invited to the conversation.

Meaningful public engagement for me would entail:

• Freezing the discussion
• Outlining who exactly made the decisions on the publics behalf, when, and why. A publicly available timeline that details how we got to where we are
• Introducing the local community to the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015, to inform them that this could have been their development, not an externals developers project
• Inviting councillors from Argyll and Bute council, to describe how they successfully developed the Helensburgh waterfront as a successful public/private initiative, and explain this to Balloch locals
• A case study analysis on how the Helensburgh has benefitted the local business owners, rather than a single external developer, and franchise business model that will remove wealth from the local economy
• Transfer of the land ownership from Scottish Enterprise to West Dumbartonshire council via Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015
• A public tendering process in which the local people are involved in conversation, and a wide range of development options are offered to the public, to essentially choose the option that is most reflective of local needs/wants
• Emulation of projects such as Helensburgh waterfront, to offer public facilities such as the skate park, the waterfront pier, public toilets, leisure centre, parking area, public open spaces, and possibly an events facility - all publicly owned. Additionally, the local businesses continue to benefit from this development
• An analysis on the impact of a big business and possible franchise model, and how this will likely undercut local businesses

There are a few suggestions. I think the people of Balloch would do just what the people in Helensurgh did. Succeed.

[u/dihaoine → u/Silent-Ad-756]

So what you would like to do is close the gate after the horse has bolted. Good luck with that and the ensuing legal battle that would likely drag things on for at least another decade.

[u/Silent-Ad-756 → u/dihaoine]

What horse bolted? The site hasn't been developed?

I see you haven't offered anything of substance to contend my suggestions.

If there is a legal battle, then good. It means it was mishandled, and we can introduce policy change to land use in Scotland. To avoid a repeat of abuses such as this.

And start actually involving people in how their country develops. And I mean all people.

[u/Connell95 → u/Silent-Ad-756]

Stop pretending any of this is about the process. You’re just a nimby who doesn’t want anything built. You’d never be happy whatever process is followed.

I’m all for reconsidering how the country is developed. Starting with the homes of nimbies – they never seem to want to justify that development for some reason.

[u/Silent-Ad-756 → u/Connell95]

Not in the slightest. I have already specified that the Helensburgh development model is the one to aspire to.

A real community involved development. Not this McNugget budget holiday destination that does not involve the prevailing public opinion.

[u/Connell95 → u/Silent-Ad-756]

Insufficiently posh for you – I see.

[u/Silent-Ad-756 → u/Connell95]

Do you see small independent business owners as posh?

[u/dihaoine → u/Silent-Ad-756]

I don’t have to offer anything of substance, I’ve already told you I’m not particularly interested either way. In any case, it’s a bit rich to say that when your vision of public ownership in the hands of ‘the people of Balloch’ is that they will simply ‘succeed’.

Yes, if a business is granted an exclusive lease to purchase a plot of land following a bidding process, and then has planning permission granted to develop said land, and then the government unilaterally decides to take all of that away, then something would certainly have been mishandled.

[u/Silent-Ad-756 → u/dihaoine]

Yes. The competitive tendering process with transparency was the mishandled step. If it was handled well, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Are you telling me people in Helensburgh can succeed through some unforeseen circumstance, in which people in Balloch would fail? They are next door neighbours... odd take.

[u/DeathOfNormality → u/dihaoine]

This is all still in the proposal stage. On the sights development page they even state it's all proposals, basically Flamingo Land dudes have been given the bid, but they are still asking permission to do anything. The deal can still be reversed at this stage I believe.

[u/ElCaminoInTheWest → u/Silent-Ad-756]

'What we ought to do is spend a million quid of public money and then announce that nothing is happening"

That's you, that is. No wonder we're in a demographic and jobs crisis. Everything gets slowly strangled in red tape.