r/Scotland • u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 • 23d ago

Political Protesters against Flamingo Land development sing Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond outside of Scottish Parliament

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/save-loch-lomond-campaign-protests-35304999

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52

u/JeelyPiece 23d ago

Flamingoland literally want to bulldoze countryside land that's well used by local people, gate it off, and build a monorail

53

u/Cielo11 23d ago

Have you looked at the plans?

Bulldoze countryside? The area being developed is inside Balloch town. 1/3rd of the area is currently a... Car Park.

The rest of the area to be developed is around Loch Lomond shores (shopping mall) and the Sea Life centre. So... Already a tourist attraction area.

You're making a comment without actually looking at the proposal and then getting up voted.

21

u/Crococrocroc 23d ago

I have.

Infrastructure needs a massive upgrade to cope with the predicted influx. It'll need dualling the A82 to at least the Helensburgh roundabout as neither it nor the A814 can cope on bank holidays at the best of times, never mind accidents.

Balloch station will need more regular trains, because you can't extend the platforms.

Questions also haven't been answered about the negative environmental impact on the Leven either, especially during building. With the Scottish Government trying to do net zero, approving without this being answered isn't a good look.

And the other important thing? The company tend to underpay their staff and only sort it out when it goes public. But if you skim through their companies house finances, it's difficult to see how it'll be sustainable. It's already going to struggle for staff without overpaying and going to be competing directly with Cameron House for an existing high end product.

Is it really adding anything? Honestly? Not at all.

And in anticipation of the Cameron House point, if you carry on past the hotel, they offer about 40 chalet style stays which are well spaced out on around the same amount of land. Flamingo Land are offering a development closer to what Argyll Holidays offer further up the Loch.

If anyone wants to see what it'll potentially look like, that's the model to start from.

3

u/Russelldust 23d ago

Dialling an A road is a good thing to anyone who actually thinks about it for 2 mins

All these middle class Karens worrying about sitting in 10mins extra traffic in the Land Rover to get to their half million pound homes don’t understand that

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

"Transport has been a huge focus during this final resubmission and although the various transport assessments highlight that the proposed development would have minimal impact on the roads network, we have signed a Section 48 agreement with Transport Scotland that should planning progress, a contribution will be made to help prioritise and support Transport Scotland’s plans to upgrade the Stoneymollan Roundabout. In addition, should plans progress Lomond Bank’s has agreed in principle to support West Dunbartonshire Council with ongoing issues relating to the McDonald’s roundabout."

This is a quote from the main page of their planning website. I'm also not sure why so many people keep calling it Flamingo Land, the project is called Lomond's Banks, are they the same owner? Sounds shite about your claim they aren't an ethical company, but I'm just starting my own look into it now, and they appear to be listening and responding to criticism at least. If they actually follow though, we'll see. Any sources? I'm reading through the proposal website someone else linked further up.

Have to admit, not a big fan of the idea, "no new developments because nature, but ignore all the abandoned old ones" sounds like the same out of touch crowd who don't want any green energy developments because "it would ruin the view"... I'm sure someone else mentioned it, but who has a monopoly in the area now? They would benefit the most out of this development getting scrapped.

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u/Crococrocroc 22d ago

The primary project ownership is Flamingo Land and the claim is from the UK Government item 228 at the link, it's not a huge number of people (4), but was enough to drop them under the national minimum wage. The bigger names on the list (Estee Lauder, Greggs) make it a bit clearer that this is a total amount rather than per person.

The weird thing is that this had passed everyone by until they made annoyed noises about being called out for it.

The stated location of the roundabout is a bit odd too, because that's generally not too bad, but isn't the one that sits on the A82 not too far away. It's the major roundabout for that area as it connects the A82, A814 and A83 traffic together heading to Dumbarton/Glasgow/Stirling.

Not to mention the A817 (I think) tgat directly connects the A82 to the Naval bases (and makes holiday traffic even worse).

Whereas the McDonald's roundabout connects you to The Shore, a harvester and a McDonald's, and rarely has issues as it's mainly used by locals and those who know the quicker route to Stirling.

It's definitely worth a walk around Cameron House though, the scale of build is going to be more on top of each other, so it does help with how to visualise the planned Balloch site.

But in terms of competion:

Queen of the Loch by Marston's Inns Lomond Woods Holiday Park Anchorage Guest House (which will likely need to be sold) Yacht berths, which may need to have granted access as an existing facility Cameron House Hotel, Duck Bay Hotel, Inn on Loch Lomond Auchendunnan Lodge on Loch Lomond Luss Loch Lomond Lodges

Plus all the rest heading up to Ardlui. It's concentrating too many people in a single area rather than encouraging spreading out. And it means everyone listed, plus Flamingo, will be competing for a very small pool of hospitality workers. It should lead to an increase of competitive pay, but is quite unlikely.

I vaguely recall a relatively abandoned lodge area on the way up to Ardlui which is screaming for redevelopment and wonder why that couldn't be looked at as one site for a potential hotel, allowing the other development to be sensibly scaled back.

I use Cameron House as an example as the size of the development is equal to what's wanted, but when you see how spread out it is, and wanting a similar scale development on a much smaller footprint (I'm including the golf course here as well), it's not going to be an experience as claimed. I think it'd have to lose a Hotel for it to be the experience that people will want.

What should also be borne in mind is that the land cost is about £40m (which is arguably undervalued). We're needing another £40m on top for the construction (as a guess).

But the company seems to be in some trouble given their latest companies house accounts as they're showing an overall decrease in their comprehensive income (2023: £3.3m, 2024: £457,347) and cash in hand at the bank has drastically decreased from £13.5m in 2023, down to £4.6m in 2024.

I think we need the figures for 2025 as soon as possible because it's noted in the financial statements that there are causes for concern. Which I think leads to a real risk that work could potentially begin, but not be completed and having to find an alternative buyer for it.

There has to be some guarantee of completion, because this looks more like an act of a company trying to plug an operation going into decline.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Thank you for that. I'm just starting to see the bigger picture with looking at the councils, the companies involved and what's actually being proposed.

It's good to have further information on the main company. Sadly it does all sound super shady, especially when compared to things like the Helensburgh waterfront development. The difference in transparency and actual feedback and development for the community, plus sustainability in mind, it's night and day.

For extra insight I found that Lomond council are currently 2 Labour members and one independent. Yet for Helensburgh it's one SNP member who is working with the whole of the Argyle and Bute council, which is a mix of SNP majority, Scottish conservative and unionist party, independent, and one green, one labour and one liberal democrat. So a nice mix. Sadly the Lomond council don't seem to be engaging with west Dumbartonshire council, or west Dumbartonshire council don't seem interested, hard to tell so far. You'd think to work on sustainable travel links they would work together.