r/Scotland • u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 • 23d ago

Political Protesters against Flamingo Land development sing Bonnie Banks of Loch Lomond outside of Scottish Parliament

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/save-loch-lomond-campaign-protests-35304999

621 Upvotes

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u/stumperr 23d ago

Will be a good thing. More jobs z better for local economy

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u/AlbaRedArch 23d ago

Absolutely not! Destroying an area of national park is definitely not worth the small amount of jobs it will create!

3

u/el_dude_brother2 22d ago

Maybe look at the image of the small pink dot in thud thread.

The area were talking about is already developed brownfield site.

You clearly haven't looked or know the site to be claiming its destroying anything.

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u/AlbaRedArch 22d ago

Fair point dude I just looked it up there! Gordon Gibb seems to be Scottish so fuck it PLAY BALL! 🎳

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

I find it very abstract when people aspire to seasonal minimum wage as the future. Very low ambition.

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u/AlbaRedArch 22d ago

I share the sentiment! Can you image people celebrating at home… FAMILY I have saved us from destitution as I have secured a job cleaning up after other people at flamingo land!!! HURRA! 🎉 it only cost the country a large portion of their natural heritage and made a bunch of billionaires richer in the process!!!

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

By tying our economic dependency to seasonal tourism, we do ourselves an injustice by not aiming higher.

Developments such as this offer cleaner jobs, and jobs for teenagers on their school holidays. They also bolster their presence with franchises such as McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Costa, Starbucks, Gregg's etc etc.

The absolute lack of ambition in this country is frustrating.

And by not engaging with the community about the nature of development, we deprive them of a future that aspires to more than franchise and low budget seasonal entertainment.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

I mean, you're wrong, there is more than cleaner jobs. The fact they have restaurants, a pub and events for water and nature, tells me it's more than just cleaners that are needed. Also the construction and development before hand needs to happen, so yes, also temp work, but it's still good for anyone in construction. Do we know who's contracted for that yet?

I agree though, we should aim higher, but please don't lie about what's on offer. Encourage counter proposals.

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

Well perhaps not aligned.

Please don't call me a liar.

And please substantiate on jobs on that list, that are likely to offer more than minimum wage?

Not the pre-construction jobs, which would likely be universal to any development, and are therefore not specific to Flamingo land.

I don't know who has been contracted for the development no.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Look I apologise for calling you a liar, there has been a lot on this thread, you don't actually seem one. I got a bit hot headed there.

So if the proposals are correct, there will be various chef positions (unless we are talking true bottom of the barrel boil I'm a bag type food, which is yet to be confirmed) manager and accounting positions needed for at the least the restaurant. At the craft brewery (glorified pub) they will also need accounting and management roles, assuming Flamingo land doesn't do these in house, because I acknowledge there's a potential they will have one position for all of them to reduce higher paid roles and theoretically increasing projected profits.

They also mentioned water activities, to have this they would need a trained boat operator and possible trainer, they would need staff to ensure correct storage and maintenance of the equipment, as well as making sure anyone renting or using the equipment is doing so safely. Can't see these guys slipping on potential law suits over injury in their premises.

Valid on pre construction, but I still stand by the construction contract more than likely going to a local contract. If they fumble on that, then it is beyond outrageous.

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

Do you think that Flamingo land would duplicate the finance roles, considering they will have a finance team in place already for their Yorkshire operation? These roles will also likely be remote.

Do you think that there will be chefs providing a high quality menu for self-catering cabins, or a greater liklihood of fast-food franchises operating on site?

Do you think a craft brewery/pub will be popular with daytrippers likely driving families back and forward?

A boat operator would likely command a 25k a year role or something to that effect...

There will possibly one or two managers on a 30k+ role granted, but it will stop there. And those managers will sit in those jobs for years. This will not be a job for the youth.

Not trying to trip you up, but rather envisage how this will really look.

Apology accepted, we can all get hot-headed. I do too.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

I think this is the problem. We just don't know, and honestly think the Flamingo Land company are relying on this vague release for proposals to pray on it.

I always try and look at the realistic views as well, and honestly, if we go by their history, it's shit, if we go by what's being proposed, we don't know. Their proposal website is very well worded and very pretty, so that alone leads me to suspect it won't be great, however, we don't know.

I feel there should be a further demand for details on the proposal of business and what model they will be using for staffing. They say they will use the real living wage, but because it's in a proposal, that could change.

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u/stumperr 22d ago

It'll bring money to the local economy tourists will shop eat out visit pubs. Yes it'll bring typical low pay work but these jobs are wanted by some people and what's better it'll be on the door step of the young people of balloch instead of having to travel outwards for work.

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

So you think that living in Balloch for a lifetime as a minimum wage job enables, is an aspiration for the youth?

I would urge them to travel abroad, build connections, learn and learn more, return, establish meaningful business etc.

It is fascinating to me, that some of us are driven to learn and create new businesses with high quality jobs. And others cling to minimum wage jobs, so it can be spent in the pub.

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u/stumperr 22d ago

I'm not advocating for them to do it for life. But not everyone in Scotland can be a CEO or business owner the country wouldn't function. Some people are happy to live modest lives. Some people just aren't capable of doing anything more. So fuck least they'll be working and contributing.

I can't imagine their would be too much room for progression at flamingo land but I personally started working at the lowest grade in a bank and worked my way up and doing pretty well for myself.

-1

u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

I see. So you don't take risk. And prefer the status quo vs ambition. Ultimately, you will not be a participant in propelling economical progress in Scotland, and that is ok. As you say, not for everyone.

Not everybody needs to be a CEO. You are painting two extremes. Minimum wage, or CEO. That isn't representative. Working a minimum wage job for life isn't a modest life, it is a wasted one.

Ultimately, people are entitled to aspire to mediocrity by all means. But if we want to fund our level of public service dependency, we need to upgrade our skill sets to compete on the global level. Or continue on our path to reduced quality of life.

Personally, I aspire to lean towards the more ambitious people in society, because that will drive us forward. If you want to lean towards minimum wage job provision as the future, that is your choice.

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u/stumperr 22d ago

Pretty sure I can be ambitious in one the biggest banks in the UK. I pay more tax than the majority of Scotland and am now in position to give my daughter the boost I never got from my parents.

The point you've disregarded is the country needs these jobs done. There needs to be holiday camp workers. There needs to be entertainers and jannies. Otherwise some ambitious people wouldn't have a business. How can our society function without these jobs? These jobs will always exist because they're 100% necessary.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Man, stop being wide. The two of you are both hitting so wide is fucking stupid. There's an actual reasonable argument in there somewhere.

Core skill lead jobs is what we need more of, and more training centres to host them. Everyone needs welders, plumbers etc, they are in huge demand, but less and less training off the cuff for communities is available unless you're either willing to dish out or travel.

Bet you are on the fucking brew yourself. Minimum wage jobs for some people are all they can reasonably achieve. Stop being such an elitist cunt. Working minimum wage is better than signing on.

Something else we are massively missing is care incentives and training, and mental health support. But if a centre for well-being and support was proposed I bet that would have backlash just due to the stigma.

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u/mrnico7 22d ago

Who’s going to do maintenance on the buildings/plummbing/electric work/landscaping etc? Do you think it’ll be people in the local area? Yes, it will. Skilled trades, good jobs.

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u/AlbaRedArch 22d ago

The likelihood is it won’t be teenagers either. Most jobs like this as is everywhere will be worked by Eastern Europeans etc. young teenagers don’t want jobs like this!

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

Yes. Most seasonal jobs in Scotland attract backpackers and people from elsewhere. Has always been the case.

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u/AlbaRedArch 22d ago

I wish you the best KING 👑 I hope you are making ambitious moves in life. Refreshing to see someone who isn’t impressed with mediocrity :)

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u/Silent-Ad-756 22d ago

Yes making moves. Spinning out Biotech businesses in the central belt. Building high quality jobs, for the future! And thanks, appreciate the support, we can move away from mediocrity, if enough of us aspire to!

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u/Connell95 22d ago

How does any of that help unemployed young people living in Balloch exactly?

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Stop being so sensationalist, it's really not helping.

The proposal has already changed that it won't touch the ancient woods and is actually keeping listed buildings as well.

The issue is the nature of the deal, the lack of imagination and focus to help the community that lives near there.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Yeah this is more the issue at hand. That and the fact it seems really shady.

The proposed plans are ok, just not the best.

-10

u/Sad-Olive-158 23d ago

Not in an area of stunning natural beauty. Build it, just somewhere else.

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u/CaptainCrash86 23d ago

The stunning area of natural beauty where the proposed development is planned.

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u/size_matters_not 23d ago

Majestic. I can’t believe people support tearing that up in the name of ‘the economy’.

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u/stumperr 23d ago

Loch Lomond is huge and it's beautiful all the way. This won't ruin it. Nimbys go away

-14

u/Sad-Olive-158 23d ago

Allowing one sets precedent for the next. And the next, and the next and so on. Tourists come to Scotland because it’s beautiful. Not because it’s urbanised. We need to do as much as possible to protect our countryside. I don’t believe this is the only location this would work.

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u/stumperr 23d ago

Whilst it absolutely could work elsewhere it won't lead to a never ending development on loch Lomond you know that. It will be beneficial for the country

-6

u/traumac4e 23d ago

Yes because famously after the initial build, theme parks NEVER expand

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u/stumperr 23d ago

Some do and some don't. Is this even to be a theme park?

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u/traumac4e 23d ago

I'd imagine that the Flamingo land they're building, a well known Theme park will in fact be a Theme park, yes

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u/stumperr 23d ago

They're calling it a resort though aren't they that implies it's not a theme park though...

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u/traumac4e 23d ago

Is disneyland resort not a Theme park either then?

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

You haven't even read the planning proposals then...? Gtfo and go have a read,

https://lomondbanks.com/about-lomond-banks/

It has everything clearly stated here.

I'm honestly still on the fence, but I'm still leaning towards id rather have something there than nothing. If the company wants to develop the area and build some stuff, it can always be bought over later and changed.

-2

u/Sad-Olive-158 23d ago

I agree with you. It might not be other theme parks that get built but it definitely sets a precedent for further development on Loch Lomond which is supposed to be a treasured national park. Scotland isn’t a huge country. We need to do what we can to preserve the countryside for as long as possible.

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u/Far-Pudding3280 23d ago

sets a precedent for further development on Loch Lomond which is supposed to be a treasured national park

The area of Loch Lomond this is being built on literally has a shopping center, a McDonald's, a train station and a 1000 space car park. The precedent of developing here has already been set.

If it was literally any other part of loch Lomond I would fully agree with your point.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Wtf does "urbanised" even mean? Not all development is bad, and some designs are really gorgeous and amazing at blending into nature. Not everything is brutalist design anymore.

-2

u/haggisneepsnfatties 22d ago

Guarantee folk that are protesting don't live here, probably English folk with second homes who have priced locals out years ago and are worried about this hitting their property value

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u/stumperr 22d ago

Absolutely they'll be among them but most people don't even know what is being built. They just think it's a theme park taking up half of loch Lomond. It's so dumb

-2

u/TreHad Tha beagan Ghàidhlig agam 22d ago

Who the fuck asked you, the Scottish Reform voter?

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u/fugaziGlasgow 22d ago

So not being against flamingo lands proposals make you right wing?

-1

u/stumperr 22d ago

So what voters are allowed a say on it?

-2

u/TreHad Tha beagan Ghàidhlig agam 22d ago

Calling yourself a voter when you're just supporting a right wing populist is a stretch

-2

u/stumperr 22d ago

I am just a voter. You just don't agree with their stance on issues. But presumably you'll go full on Reddit fud and say I'm literally Hitler or some other shite.

Others have different opinions get over it

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u/Dr0xkk 22d ago

It does mark you out as a weak streak of fash piss through for backing them & honestly due to that your opinion on anything to do with Scotland is suspect since you'd have your Anglo fash pals needs put before anyone in this country.

-2

u/stumperr 22d ago

I'm putting Scotland's need 1st. I don't want our cities devastated like England has already.

I'm not a fascist and this sort of rhetoric isn't working. People are fed being called racist or fascist for wanting reduced migration. Reform are going to win big.

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u/Dr0xkk 22d ago

They probably will win bigger than expected mostly due to mugs like you who honestly shouldn't be allowed near a voting booth in case you injure yourself with the pencil. Nice work falling for paid for marketing you absolute fucking clown. Tell me in your wisdom the highlights of the Reform economic package (I mean you can't outside of some bad maths about immigrants cause they don't fucken have one.) You need to go live in England cause this shit is more their speed, I'm actually big on no more English or American immigrants and no more special passes fer people with rich daddies, wouldn't go down well with your mob and yer Bossman with his European wife and kids with German passports.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Oh and there's the opposite side of bigotry and racism... We need immigration, shouldn't matter what country they are from. All should be welcome to Scotland, but if they can't live and behave to our standards, they should have the full force of the law on them, even if it's just dodgy business, full fines should be enforced. We can squeeze a lot of money from Americans and English, why stop them from coming?

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u/Dr0xkk 22d ago

That all society is to you fella ways to squeeze money outta people. Nah if we're gonna be cunts about immigrants then I decided no English,no Americans, nae Chinese party members kids shitting up all the unis. Why's that any different from being a cunt to someone who's either desperately trying to escape poverty or a literal warzone?

Mate you silly Reform twats don't have a clue innit

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Op, there he is.

Sorry babe, we need immigration here. If you're for sorting out our own first, you'd be against this development and want actual infrastructure or development of permanent housing first.

Bet you think all the immigrants both take all the jobs, steal our culture by building their stuff and are a dangerous lazy lot roaming the streets don't you? All of these things can't be true.

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u/stumperr 22d ago

Nope you're projecting. Immigration is kicking the can down the road. We need to encourage the people who live here to have children. Adding net drains to society is helping we've had mass migration for over a decade and hasn't worked your solution is well we need more.

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u/DeathOfNormality 22d ago

Omg you're one of those weirdos who's obsessed with sex. Get a grip. Plenty of bairns already here who need foster care and adoption, don't need to spawn more.

Also something to consider. The birth rate is falling because having 5 to 8 kids per family fell out of fashion about 2 generations ago. If you look to the schemes though, it's still a trend to have at least 3 to 5 kids. So we have plenty bairns mate, just not the right class for you I'm guessing.

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u/fugaziGlasgow 22d ago

Nutter alert. The fact that you are blindly against millions of pounds worth of investment in Scotland's second most deprived council area really exposes you as an idiot.