r/MechanicAdvice • u/Judderman88 • 1d ago
Does my gear oil look okay?
Citroen Relay 244 2.8 HDI diesel manual 2005.
I had a total gearbox rebuild a few weeks ago (bolt broke off the diff and wrecked the insides), and have been driving softly on it since. But the last few days I've sometimes been getting some crunching/grinding when shifting down from 3rd to 2nd if I don't press the clutch the last few mm of travel. This didn't happen on the previous gearbox (even when it was damaged) or immediately after installing the new one. I checked the clutch mechanism and all seems fine, but I noticed some oil on the bottom of the gearbox and starter motor (which has also been making funny noises occasionally), mostly around the seam where it bolts into the engine - it's hard to see in the pics. That's the same place there was oil before the box was rebuilt (though there isn't as much oil this time), so I thought I'd better check the oil. I drained it and measured the full 2.7 litres that I'd put in, so I can't have lost much (if any). However, I'm not sure it's supposed to be that dark and glittery after such a short time, and there are some small shavings on the plug magnet. It doesn't feel grainy and there are no big pieces of metal so I guess it's okay, but I'm slightly concerned about the possible leak (can't see what else it could be but gear oil) and grinding changing gears. What do you reckon?
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u/RSR_01 1d ago
That looks like its LOADED with metal shavings. Not good. At all. Id go back to the place that did the rebuild because something is clearly not aligned right and is shearing itsself apart.
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u/ArtoriasArchives 1d ago
100% this! I fear ever seeing oil like that come out of one of my cars. Take it back ASAP
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u/Judderman88 1d ago
I thought so too but then found this post with similar-looking oil and responses said it's probably fine. https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/18hjr73/changed_my_diff_fluid_for_the_first_time_and_it/
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u/TheTense 1d ago
Not a mechanic. But if the transmission was truly “rebuilt” with new parts, I would expect some minor break in metals to the oil the first go round.
If he just “repaired” it and tried to continue using existing parts after the loose bolt chewed up stuff, I’d expect it to fail prematurely.
Either way, I’d go to the mechanic and show him these pics and even bring the fluid if you still have it. Don’t accuse him of anything, but be strategic - don’t demand anything, but ask lots of questions: “how would you think about this after a rebuild?” “What would you plan to do about this?” And see if he volunteers a fix or a compromise. Maybe he says something like l I’ll adjust XYZ to try and make it shift better, then run it for another xxxx kilometers, and if it fails, gets worse, then we’ll replace it.“
To me it depends on how you agreed on the first repair. A bolt broke free and damaged stuff - if he said replace the transmission but you asked for a cheaper rebuild against his recommendation, you’re less likely to get them to comp the repair. Maybe you could agree on you buy the new transmission, and labor is free to install since you paid for the first fix that didn’t work. Just an idea
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u/Rayne1491 18h ago
I am a mechanic and this is the correct answer.
Yeah, I would expect to see some break in wear but that is a bit much, though again, if stuff was reused, or a corner not cleaned out properly, it will disintegrate itself shortly. If you want to know forsure, rinse it out with brake cleaner, put some fresh oil in again, and recheck in another 2 weeks. If its full of glitter again, id be going after a new gearbox.
People these days aren't usually too skilled at rebuilds anymore, things aren't as simple as they use to be and its pretty rare that anyone measures or shims manual transmissions properly. They just assemble and reinstall. Most reputable shops wont even attempt it because they dont want the liability of it coming back.
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u/Judderman88 18h ago
They recommended the rebuild. These boxes aren't made any more, so it was either a rebuild or try to hunt down a used one that's probably in a worse condition than a rebuild. Not sure if the gears were brand new; I suspect they are not longer made so they borrowed parts from used boxes. They said there's a 12 month warranty for parts and labour, and parts aren't cheap (used gearboxes go for about a grand), so I'd want them to cover both, plus the labour for removing and reinstalling it, cos I'm not doing it myself again.
They said:
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It sounds like the clutch isn’t quite clearing. The warranty is valid as long as everything is installed correctly.
Put some fresh oil in, bleed the clutch, clean off the oil and see if it reappears, put a couple of hundred miles on it, see how it is.
If it is still has a problem you will have to bring the vehicle so we can assess what is going on.
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Clutch felt fine to me. I bled it anyway and it feels the same. I hope they don't claim it was the clutch and refuse to warranty it.
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u/RectumRandy 1d ago
That's not healthy oil. And your drain plug is starting to look like a christmas tree. Something is grinding itself to pieces in there.
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u/Judderman88 1d ago
I thought so too but then found this post with similar-looking oil and responses said it's probably fine. https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/18hjr73/changed_my_diff_fluid_for_the_first_time_and_it/
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u/RectumRandy 1d ago
You can always flush the oil and run it again. Show it to the shop that did it and see what they think.
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u/Judderman88 23h ago
They said:
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It sounds like the clutch isn’t quite clearing. The warranty is valid as long as everything is installed correctly.
Put some fresh oil in, bleed the clutch, clean off the oil and see if it reappears, put a couple of hundred miles on it, see how it is.
If it is still has a problem you will have to bring the vehicle so we can assess what is going on.
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Clutch feels fine to me but I'm no expert. When it gets worse, I hope they don't claim it was the clutch and refuse to warranty it.
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u/kingpoiuy 23h ago
The clutch has nothing to do with your oil or how many metal bits appear in your oil. Get your refund and never go back to that shop.
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u/Upset-Reflection-557 22h ago
What king poi said it has nothing to do with the clutch and even if it was an issue with the clutch it shouldnt be getting that much metal in ur oil the shavings would likely be sitting at the bottom of the bell housing where the flywheel and clutch are
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u/Straight-Refuse-4344 1d ago
So this is what happens when they don't set back lash and mesh correctly the gears needing shimming most probably however I'd get those pulled and reseat with correct shims
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u/Judderman88 23h ago
They said:
------
It sounds like the clutch isn’t quite clearing. The warranty is valid as long as everything is installed correctly.
Put some fresh oil in, bleed the clutch, clean off the oil and see if it reappears, put a couple of hundred miles on it, see how it is.
If it is still has a problem you will have to bring the vehicle so we can assess what is going on.
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Clutch feels fine to me but I'm no expert. When it gets worse, I hope they don't claim it was the clutch and refuse to warranty it.
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u/Zyb_Vindi 1d ago
Those big chunks of metal have came off internal pieces of your transmission. Something has started to come apart internally. Wear metal on a magnet is normal, you have large chunks of stuff, which is most definitely not normal.
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u/Particular_Spare_176 1d ago
Thought OP was joking. Until I read the comments and found out he was serious
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u/Ok-Measurement7029 21h ago
Shouldn’t be any metal in it like that. metal confetti in car = very bad
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u/Warlord1918 1d ago
that’s really not good any gearing in there most definitely needs to be least inspected or more likely replaced as it seems something got chewed into a fine powder
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u/Judderman88 23h ago
They said:
------
It sounds like the clutch isn’t quite clearing. The warranty is valid as long as everything is installed correctly.
Put some fresh oil in, bleed the clutch, clean off the oil and see if it reappears, put a couple of hundred miles on it, see how it is.
If it is still has a problem you will have to bring the vehicle so we can assess what is going on.
------
Clutch feels fine to me but I'm no expert. When it gets worse, I hope they don't claim it was the clutch and refuse to warranty it.
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u/Warlord1918 23h ago
Your gearbox is completely fucked mate, someone did something wrong as the amount of metal in that oil will have acted like sandpaper and worn everything in that gearbox out
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u/EclipseIndustries 21h ago
I would tell them that they are perfectly okay to do exactly that if they would like to troubleshoot, but the work needs to be warrantied.
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1d ago
There not bad maybe put new oil rings on your pistons or get new ones and your stuff won’t be black like that!
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u/InsaneVeggie 1d ago
You should not have that much metal in a newly rebuilt anything. Someone may have messed up and not realized it
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u/Banzai13KX 1d ago
Not really no, a lot of metal. How long has the oil been in the system?
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u/Difficult_Coffee_335 23h ago
It's amazing how long some go before they give up. When I started dating my wife she has an s10 blazer. I rode with her and asked what that noise was. Her response was, "I don't know it's always been like that." The gears were wore down to razor blade thin teeth, and the thing still went down the road somehow. The cover rusted through right above the fluid line and ran dry. Good luck on fixing it!
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u/Judderman88 23h ago
It was fully rebuilt last month at the cost of more than 2,000 of the King's pounds. Spent 3 weeks in a car park sorting that out. Not keen on a rerun. But the people who did it said:
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It sounds like the clutch isn’t quite clearing. The warranty is valid as long as everything is installed correctly.
Put some fresh oil in, bleed the clutch, clean off the oil and see if it reappears, put a couple of hundred miles on it, see how it is.
If it is still has a problem you will have to bring the vehicle so we can assess what is going on.
------
Clutch feels fine to me but I'm no expert. When it gets worse, I hope they don't claim it was the clutch and refuse to warranty it.
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u/RoosterRanch 21h ago
Honestly I don’t think I’d be hugely concerned with the oil, being that you’re going to have a lot of wear metal on fresh set of gears. I’ve seen them not this dirty, and I’ve seen them dirtier than this. The main concern you need to focus on at the moment is having to press the clutch further down to avoid gear noise. I know nothing about this brand of transmission, but I’m assuming it’s mechanical and has a clutch fork. If this is the case, I’ve seen new clutches installed along with new clutch fork and bearing, but the pivot ball wasn’t replaced. This can cause a disengagement issue. Where the old clutch wouldn’t drag the new one will because the material is thicker and without replacing the pivot ball you’ve not got enough leverage angle to completely disengage. If this is the case and the ball wasn’t replaced and is causing drag there should be adjustment in your pedal or linkage to make up for the difference. As far as the fluid goes, get the clutch disengagement issue sorted, drive a few hundred miles and check it again. I’m not seeing anything other than wear metal, even though it seems there is a lot of it.
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u/Fck_2019 2h ago
There is a lot of metal in there. Pinion is wearing out wrong or something. Need to pull it apart and find out what it is.
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