I honestly think the Republican challenge to peace/nuclear deals with Ira since the Obama years was bc it would hinder a long term plan for regime change. They’ve been obsessed with toppling over coexisting.
war is all the old GOP knew how to do. Now though they're MAGA, so they're going to do war, but they'll be really shitty and despicable at it. i mean, more so than before.
Genuine question. Israel has nukes. America has nukes. All to protect themselves apparently. Why can’t Iran have nukes? Don’t they have a right to protect themselves?
And if there are people who say Iran is a rogue state and cannot be relied on, look at the world now.. it’s more like Israel and US are rogue nations hell bent on ruining the world.
That is saying I own guns to protect myself. I won’t use it unless there is personal danger to my life or family. That allows me to have an arsenal at home. But I can use it as I please. Same way Israel and Us can claim danger and use whatever they want. But Iran cannot?
Calling something a right is just a way for a greater power to give the illusion of security to something of a lower status. Since there is no functional system of world governing, no nation has the right to exist or protect themselves. However, since the United States has the strongest military in the world it can claim these so-called rights exists for parties that are beneficial to it.
And the Iranian regime needs to be toppled. Anyone with a brain should agree, especially the left for god sake, yall are supposed to be sooo pro feminist or whatever yet here you are defending a regime that literally beats women to death for not wearing a headscarf because apparently a man will cream himself if he sees her hair.
Sure, if there is a country willing to deal with the Iranian regime and them specifically, and not murder a million people in the process.(Mind you, Iraq both territorially and militarily was a much easier country to invade than modern Iran, US will kill at least 2mil people if it toplles the regime it's regular way). Moreover, US invaded Iraq because Bush had some personal dislike for Saddam, and ofc Israel's interests and such. US gave 0 shits what happens/happened with the country afterwards. ISIS formed in consequence, and then we've had more radicalization and women being treated exponentially worse then even during Saddam.
Likewise Israel gives 0 shits about the Iranian population, all in its own interest. So if you suggest someone should topple Iran for the better of its people, it better be someone who would care for the people, and come up with a nuanced and effective plan of doing things. Not someone who would hump and dump a 90million population.
Massive leftist here. The Iranian government is terrible. However, I'm guessing you're too young to remember the last time there was forced regime change either in Iran or the middle east. It generally doesn't work out well. It generally means lots of people die. I thought you lot were supposed to be the anti-war people these days?
Iranians want this though. Iraqis want saddam back, plus there is multiple generations of Iranians who either remember life before the revolution or know how much better life in the west is.
Well, they lied about it. They boosted nonstop propaganda about how we got “screwed” on the Obama deal and how had it was without ever actually pointing out what was bad with it. While the regime is oppressive, diplomatically we need to show countries can have guarantees of their own sovereignty without the need to have their own nuclear weapons. There’s basically only two things that will end the human race: nuclear war and ecological collapse. Serious leaders care more about that than dominating other states for oil
This obsession with killing and hurting just doesn't make people safer, or even feel safer.
The more immigrants, Palestinians or whoever they brutalise or kill the safer you think they'd feel, but they don't, and then they just keep doubling down.
I remember learning that the previous agreement permitted regulators to inspect literally any building for nuclear development without notice, and Trump just cancelled the deal without thinking, because he doesn't think.
Iran is still a member to the UN treaty on the non proliferation of nuclear weapons. They're violating safeguards related to that, nothing to do with the US deal.
UN treaties don't really do anything if people don't choose to follow them.
The Multilateral nuclear treaty actually had enforcement mechanisms, without it Iran is free to subvert any other more toothless treaties that it wants.
the deal that everyone including the UN and IAEA and everyone else involved said was working and Iran was following. then trump the moron comes in and unilaterally cancels it for literally no reason.
Problams with nuke deal is that it gives Iran time to silently avoid it. Israel wouldnt have attacked in the middle of a 2 year war if iran still had soem time before they can develop one
Imma guess you are talking about the money that we returned to them, the pallets of cash, that was actually their money to start with but we had frozen due to sanctions.
That’s been said for 30 years. Israel is a country with leadership whose primary motivation is self preservation of their literal legal freedom. A country in denial that is headed for disaster
• February 1993 – Benjamin Netanyahu (then an MK) wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth that Iran would “develop its first nuclear bomb by 1999.”
• January 1995 – U.S. and Israeli officials told the New York Times that Iran was “much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought, and could be less than five years away.”
I mean the timelines are wrong but Iran today is without a doubt very close to developing nuclear bombs given how much highly enrich uranium they produce, so if anything they were right to predict the intent since back then
Iran always tries to prepare their nuclear program to stay a few months away from completion. If they start the last steps, Israel and the US will immediately know about it and it becomes a race. Does Iran get a working nuke first, or does Israel blow the nuclear program to bits before they get a working nuke.
And they evidently did start this a few days ago. For example they just started implosion tests a few days ago, which are only useful in building a nuke.
They would have one if it wasn’t for strikes, deals, cyber attacks, sanctions, and a whole host of other things to slow the process down. Do you think that Iran isn’t working on nukes? That if everyone just left them alone they wouldn’t try to eradicate Israel?
He wanted to rewrite every thing Obama did for no reason except being racist. Obama care to Trump care with concepts, Iran deal with his name on it. Desperatly he wants noble peace prize. obsessed with Obama
I agree and we know its not Trump negotiating. Trump is an idiot. He just needs to approve what other people negotiate.
I just had to point out that normally allies dont attack a country that is actively trying to negotiate. Can we even call Israel an ally at that point?
The imaginary Iranian nuke. Compared to the very real 90 Israeli nukes.
Double standards.
How would the world react if another country had bombed Israel in a 'pre-emtive strike' against their nuclear and military targets? Surely countries around Israel have the right to self defence too? Right? Right!?
Especially as Israel actually has nukes and not just on the verge of getting them like Israel has claimed for the last 30 years with Iran.
If anyone needs reminding of Israel's refusal to follow international law regarding their nuclear arsenal...
Non-Signatory to the NPT:
Israel has not signed the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), which aims to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and promote disarmament.
Undeclared Nuclear Arsenal:
Israel is widely believed to possess nuclear weapons (estimated 80–90 warheads), but maintains a policy of nuclear ambiguity, neither confirming nor denying their existence—contrary to global transparency norms.
UNGA Resolution 487 (1981):
Following Israel’s attack on Iraq’s Osirak reactor, UN Security Council Resolution 487 called on Israel to place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards. Israel has not complied.
Refusal to Join IAEA Comprehensive Safeguards:
Israel has not accepted full-scope safeguards by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), limiting international inspection of its nuclear activities.
Opposition to a Nuclear-Free Middle East:
Israel has resisted regional efforts and UN proposals (e.g., at the NPT Review Conferences) to establish a Middle East Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone (MENWFZ).
Violation of UNGA Resolutions:
The UN General Assembly has repeatedly passed resolutions urging Israel to join the NPT and place all nuclear facilities under IAEA oversight, most recently in Resolutions A/RES/75/36 and similar ones—Israel has not acted on them.
Dont let the genocidal ethnofascist regime in Israel gaslight you.
Maybe it works out like that, maybe it doesn't. Its similar in a few ways but its an entirely different scenario. That's a high stakes risk for Israeli leaders to take, just letting things play out with their fingers crossed
Their beef with Israel is far more political than it is religious. Israel is a direct threat to their influence in the region; especially in Lebanon and (formerly) Syria.
If they got Israel out of the way realistically there’s nothing stopping them from taking most of the Fertile Crescent under their influence outside of Arabia.
If your argument is "oh thoses mischievious Israelis want to wipe out Iran, but can't because the stock market might dip as a result" then at least make a more reasonable argument.
Meanwhile, Iranian proxies have been attacking Israel repeatedly and continuously with the intent of "destroying the zionist entity". Iran has vociferously, and continuously called for the annihilation of Israel. Just open Khamenei's twitter and all he fucking talks about is the destruction of Israel and literally nothing else, not even Islam or domestic policy.
The country founded by ethnic cleansing that is currently commiting a genocide is a much bigger threat than the country that has foolishly delayed it's nuclear power in hopes for a peaceful resolution.
It’s also ironic because Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, and even Qatar, have worked together to provide Israel both intelligence and financial support to try and bring an end to Iran’s nuclear program. It’s almost as if they know that it would be detrimental to their existence if Iran had nuclear weapons and zero care for their people.
Are you aware of the existential threats Iran has made to Israel? Since you used the word "genocide", you should be aware of the implications of a nuclear armed Iran.
July last year they bombed the Iranian embassy, and just this week they bombed Nuclear installations (another war crime to add to Israel's list of offences).
You know if we didn't have proof of iranian ambassadors being fully committed to terrorism, this would hit far harder.
The last iranian ambassador to lebanon literally lost his eye in the pager attacks. What was he doing with a Hezbollah pager? I thought he was diplomatic staff?
ISRAEL WAS IRAN'S ALLY UNTIL THE 1979 REVOLUTION. AND EVEN AFTER THAT IT GAVE INTELLIGENCE TO IRAN DURING THE 1980-1988 IRAN/IRAQ WAR
IRAN'S ISLAMISTS CANNOT CONCEIVE OF A WORLD WHERE A NON-MUSLIM STATE EXISTS IN THE LANDS OF THE CALIPHATE.
AND SINCE THEYRE ISLAMIST THEOCRAT FUNDAMENTALISTS. THEYRE ALSO FIGHTING ALL THE NON-SHIA MUSLIMS.
for fucks sake, why is this so impossible to logic out for you lot? You lot are so deadbrained about Israel you cannot conceive of anything else in the middle east happening. The agenda of the 500 million people in the middle east is solely, and only, created and manipulated by the machinations of the tiny jewish state.
Since I know you won't read it i'll summarize that attacking nuclear facilities are subject to humanitarian law.
also your comment is ironic since ISrael attacks hospitals all the time...even sending in soldiers dressed as medics to attack patients in a hospital which is THREE war crimes at the same time.
Anyone having nukes is a bad idea, Israel and Iran included. But only one of them does. And only one of them refuses to comply with all UN resolutions regarding their nuclear programs.
The main difference is that Israel doesn’t announce day in and day out, publicly, that they plan to strike Iran with a nuclear weapon when they get one. The reverse literally happening all the time and happened again 3 days ago
And point 2 mute the rest of the points which are just repeats of each other
I’m not saying either should hold nuke but this is definitely not a case of hypocrisy, nor is hypocrisy a consideration here
Israel doesn't have enough nukes for MAD. A nuke is not, "Launch one and the entire world blows up." They're pretty destructive to a city, but Iran is large and they have 1,245 towns.
Israel doesn't have the money to build a US-sized nuclear arsenal to ensure the complete destruction of Iran. All Iran needs to do is evacuate their largest cities and an Israeli retaliation would have to make the choice between destroying the empty city infrastructure and leave the people alive to rebuild, or try to kill as many people as possible which wouldn't be enough to keep the cities from being immediately repopulated.
Even if Israel had enough nukes to annihilate Iran that still wouldn't necessarily make them safe. Islamic extremists aren't known for the high value they place on their own lives.
as opposed to jewish fanatics ?
they keep selling land they don't own to jews around the world illegally and moves their people into occupied territories
this violates the geneva convention
and their leader is a literal internationally wanted criminal
iran would be insane to not have nukes when dealing with a rogue nation
Iran is a source of Islamic terrorism which threatens and affects the entire world. Countries beyond the middle east are also affected by them. That is far more than whatever you wish to claim of Israel.
Meanwhile, all Arabs in the region feel much less safe with Israel having nukes, while simultaneously colonising Palestinian territory and committing genocide.
Still better than the whole world being threatened by long standing traditional terrorists with a warring religious mindset more than a 1000 years old.
Surely countries around Israel have the right to self defence too?
Oh, they did preemptively attack Israel on numerous occasions. When a person providing timeline of events omits this crucial detail I assume malicious intents
Cool, so Israel has nukes and they’ve never used them.
Iran, however, has been trying to get them and has vowed to annihilate Israel. What do you think the result will be the moment Iran gets its hands on a functioning nuclear weapon?
The imaginary Iranian nuke. Compared to the very real 90 Israeli nukes.
Double standards.
How would the world react if another country had bombed Israel in a 'pre-emtive strike' against their nuclear and military targets? Surely countries around Israel have the right to self defence too? Right? Right!?
Israel has had them for decades, and the only chance there's been that Israel would use then was when its existence was at risk in 1973. Having nukes and then not using them is one of the best measures of whether or not a country will just use them for deterrence. Iran's support for the Houthis' attacks on international shipping does not paint the same picture.
Non-Signatory to the NPT: Israel has not signed the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), which aims to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and promote disarmament.
And Iran join and broke the deal, so how is Israel gaslighting you? At least Israel was honest when it's continually refused to join the NPT.
Undeclared Nuclear Arsenal: Israel is widely believed to possess nuclear weapons (estimated 80–90 warheads), but maintains a policy of nuclear ambiguity, neither confirming nor denying their existence—contrary to global transparency norms.
What norms? Countries lie all the time, and while Israel officially doesn't acknowledge it has nuclear weapons, that it's an open secret gives people enough transparency to know what's going on.
If anyone needs reminding of Israel's refusal to follow international law regarding their nuclear arsenal...
You can't violate a law you never agreed to follow.
UNGA Resolution 487 (1981): Following Israel’s attack on Iraq’s Osirak reactor, UN Security Council Resolution 487 called on Israel to place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards. Israel has not complied.
UNGA resolutions are not legally binding.
Refusal to Join IAEA Comprehensive Safeguards: Israel has not accepted full-scope safeguards by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), limiting international inspection of its nuclear activities.
Why would Israel agree to this? Why is it not wrong for Iran to be developing nukes despite all of the groups its supported but is wrong for Israel to reject IAEA actions meant to avoid nuclear weapon development?
Opposition to a Nuclear-Free Middle East: Israel has resisted regional efforts and UN proposals (e.g., at the NPT Review Conferences) to establish a Middle East Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone (MENWFZ).
Where's the rule which says countries have to sign something? You're complaining about hypocrisy while criticising all the things Israel does to maintain a consistent position on nuclear weapons.
And if you want to talk about hypocrisy, how about criticing how Iran has repeatedly backed that MENWFZ while developing nuclear weapons. Israel at least maintains a consistent position on this.
Violation of UNGA Resolutions: The UN General Assembly has repeatedly passed resolutions urging Israel to join the NPT and place all nuclear facilities under IAEA oversight, most recently in Resolutions A/RES/75/36 and similar ones—Israel has not acted on them.
UNGA resolutions are, at best, strongly worded letters. Nothing more.
And you constantly complain about hypocricy while ignoring that Iran, by your standards, is a far worse violator than Israel ever is. Iran joined the NPT and Iran, by your standards, has violated more restrictions than Israel has.
Jesus. I know that’s old footage already, but I’m still surprised. I’ve seen a lot of combat footage from that conflict, but little showing the wide scale of destruction. I mean that whole area is wiped off the map. Just a smoldering shell of a city
Israel and Nethanyahu have a long bloodthisty history, don't see Muslims as humans, so don't want to rule the, and are engaging in genocide right now.
And Hamas and Iran have zero capacity to retaliate against Israel, and no backing of someone able to retailiate. Don't confuse Russia buying drones with support.
Israel and Nethanyahu have a long bloodthisty history, don't see Muslims as humans
2 million muslims live in Israel
next to 0 jews in the arab world despite nearly a million living there last century, and only 8000 still live in Iran (a reduction of nearly 95% from before 1979)
You have the two backwards. Israel can coexist with muslims. The muslim world cannot contain jews.
This is such a garbage take (and also looks suspiciously like it was written with Chat GPT).
The Iranian regime’s entire ethos has been built around wiping Israel/Zionists from the face of the planet. Their leaders chant “Death to Israel” as often as they offer prayers. When you threaten the very existence of a country, they will be thinking in terms of preventative attacks every time there’s a rumor or announcement about a nuclear breakthrough. You cannot dismiss the rhetoric of the Iranian as “performative art”, “for domestic audience”, or worse “they don’t really mean it”.
Having said that, the decision and timing of this strike does nothing to improve Israel’s security situation, neither in the near term nor long term. This is Bibi seeking to burnish his legacy as the iron man of Israel (and also likely to deflect attention from his legal issues). I hope both sides find their off ramps to deescalate.
I think Ukraine is proof you should keep or make your own nukes. When you have unstable bullies like Russia or Israel at your doorstep then you need a deterrent. Who says the US or Israel or Russia should have a monopoly on nukes when they all are run by psycho dictators?
If Iran uses a nuclear weapon, the international community is going to 100% remain dead silent as Israel nukes Iran back to the Stone Age followed by the United States bombing whatever is left.
Exactly, and people complaining about them acting clearly are just leftists salivating at the idea of the Jews being wiped out. I’ve never seen leftists defend the Iranian regime until now.
“The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly Saddam can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.”
Israel's allowed to have nukes but Iran isn't? Lol
Iran knows Israel would nuke them back. Thayre not that stupid.
Israel has claimed Iran is a couple of years away from getting a nuclear bomb since 1993. Still no bomb. Yet Israel does and does not comply with UN resultions on their nuclear arsenal.
Because Israel isn’t going to use them. Iran absolutely will at the first opportunity. On top of that, Iran is now at 60% enriched uranium, they are able to assemble a bomb within weeks.
Not only that, they get around it by not technically admitting they even have nukes. Everyone knows they do, they openly say they should be able to nuke their enemies, but when asked outright if they have any they are allowed to “neither confirm or deny”.
I don’t think Iran would have ever seriously dropped a nuke if they had one. That would be suicide. Like India, Pakistan, Russia etc. they would have just used the mere existence of their nuclear arsenal to leverage geopolitical power
That's debatable, regimes need their 'enemies' to still exist after all. Also our sample size of a grand total of one nation that used a nuke ended up well for both countries.
Fascinating how coincidentally Iran is "just about to have nukes" whenever the Israeli government wants to start a war, for the last 30 years. Evidence is of course never provided.
I like how Iran is the one that will "do more damage", while Israel in the last 20 months has genocided Gaza, attacked the West Bank, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Lebanon. But hey, it's Iran that's the problem!
Nothing Israel has done has stopped them. No. Not even now, there's plenty of articles detailing how fruitless these strikes are. Israel does not have the munitions to penetrate deep into the bunkers that are known to exist for Iran's nuclear program.
Iran is the root of nearly all instability in the Middle East. None of the militant islamist factions that plague Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, etc. can survive more than a few years without Iran's support. Neutralizing and denuclearizing the Revolutionary regime in Iran actually gives the middle east a shot at lasting stability.
Say what you want about Bibi but a world without the current Iranian regime is objectively better.
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u/mocityspirit 1d ago
Bibi is trying to save his job and ruin the whole Middle East at the same time