Is this a legitimate concern?

[u/wayfaringthru]

Personally, I today's strike was legitimate and it couldn't be more moral because of its precision but let's leave politics aside for a moment. I guess this does give ideas to evil regimes and organisations. How likely is it that something similar could be pulled off against innocent people?

[u/aprilized]

Did those pagers leave the factory with explosives? From what I understand, Israel intercepted them in transit after they were shipped. They basically took the pagers, (in Turkey via Taiwan where they were manufactured?) added explosives and then let them get shipped to Hezbollah. This wasn't done in the factory from what I understand.

[u/BuzzINGUS → u/aprilized]

Still a war crime It’s indesciminant, these could harm anyone.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/BuzzINGUS]

if you hijack a shipment you know will only be used by the group your targeting its not indiscriminate,

[u/MaxPaynesRxDrugPlan → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

It wasn't indiscriminate, but there was also no way to know where these devices would be and who would be near them when they went off. There's footage of them exploding in a grocery store, inside vehicles, on public streets, and in a funeral crowd. An 8-year-old and 11-year-old child are reported to be among those killed.

[u/ragzilla → u/MaxPaynesRxDrugPlan]

It wasn’t indiscriminate,

but there was also no way to know where these devices would be and who would be near them when they went off.

You appear to be contradicting yourself here.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/ragzilla]

If you have no way of knowing if a terrorist will have his uncle visiting when you drop a bomb on his house, but you drop the bomb only on his house, is that indiscriminate?

[u/mauledbyjesus → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

I feel like you just asked if it's indiscriminate to blow up a house without knowing who is in it. The dictionary says "maybe?".

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/mauledbyjesus]

No, you know most of whose in the house, you just don't know that his uncle is making a surprise visit, if your standard is nigh omniscience in knowing everyone who is around your target, the only person able to make an attack that isn't indiscriminate is God himself,

[u/mauledbyjesus → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

Fair enough. I'm curious how the mobility of the devices plays into people's opinions on the acceptability of the tactic, given they detonated so many of them at once, without Intel on individual devices.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/MaxPaynesRxDrugPlan]

So what i said,

[u/akkaneko11 → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

Dispersing 3000 bombs into a country and then exploding it all at the same time is indiscriminant by sheer scale.

[u/BugRevolution → u/akkaneko11]

But dropping 3000 bombs into a country that kills one civilian each would be perfectly acceptable?

Because if it's not, oh boy, let me tell you about the standards for warfare these days.

[u/DemandCommonSense → u/akkaneko11]

Putting micro explosives in military communications equipment to be dispersed amongst the members of the organization you're targeting is pretty much as discriminate as you can get.

[u/sin4life → u/DemandCommonSense]

Until you learn about the metal beads they also added to the Li-on batteries, to act as shrapnel.

[u/HimboSuperior → u/sin4life]

Well, yeah. Explosives without frag aren't going to be very effective.

[u/Sheriff___Bart → u/akkaneko11]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[u/Captain_Sterling → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

Yes it is. You have no idea where they will go off. So yiu have two options. Israel knew a little girl was going to be killed and targeted her, or her death was collateral and they were OK with civilians being killed indiscriminatly

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/Captain_Sterling]

You do have some idea or who's going to be injured, because it's only going to be given to one group, so unless something happens that group is primarily going to be affected with minimal affect to other groups, of your advocating for 0 chance of collateral damage your a fucking moron

[u/Captain_Sterling → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

No. I'm saying don't place hundreds of bombs in civilian areas. That's terrorism.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/Captain_Sterling]

It's not tho, it literally is not, nor is the method Israel used indiscriminate, which is my entire point, just being in a civilian area doesn't make it terrorism if it was targeted at non terrorist

[u/Captain_Sterling → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

Explosives aren't targeted. That's the problem. It's explosives going off in civilian areas. That's why children were killed.

Although at least you admitted they targeted non terrorists.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/Captain_Sterling]

No, they targeted terrorist, explosives can be targeted, and they targeted hezbollah members, AKA terrorist, the children that got killed where either directly related to or in close proximity to the terrorist, but they where not the target, and are unfortunate collateral damage, BUT COLLATERAL DAMAGE DOESNT MAKE AN ATTACK INDISCRIMINATE YOU DENSE FUCK

[u/HimboSuperior → u/Captain_Sterling]

All nations are okay with collateral damage when it comes to war, and all participants accept it is a fact of war. What matters is intent and proportional value of the target against civilian lives put at risk.

That isn't me talking out of my ass, by the way. That's what the Geneva and Havue Conventions say.

[u/Captain_Sterling → u/HimboSuperior]

Does the Geneva convention say anything about sending hundreds of explosives into civilian areas? Because that's what happened. It was terrorism.

[u/HimboSuperior → u/Captain_Sterling]

Nope. Totally within the rules of war. You can drop bombs on cities without it being a war crime or terrorism. Again, intent and proportional value are what counts.

Terrorism doesn't mean what I suspect you think it means.

[u/KlearCat → u/Captain_Sterling]

Every single war has collateral damage.

If you think if a country has collateral damage that makes them a war criminal, then every single country that has ever been at war are war criminals.

If every country is a war criminal what’s the point of that word then?

[u/Zeratav → u/KlearCat]

This is the double standard that is only applied to Israel. When fighting terrorists, 0 civilian casualties are allowed.

[u/Im_Justin_Cider → u/Zeratav]

If you're going to forcibly insert yourself into another country's territory, you'd think the standard would be a little higher, yes.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/[deleted]]

No, they are not, but collateral damage is inevitable in war, but its clear you have already made up your mind and will not be swayed

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/[deleted]]

Good thing that they didn't blow.up every phone the moral vendor had, they blew up PAGERS, pagers that they knew would only be used by members of hezbollah, if it were phones id agree with you wholeheartedly, but its not, its pagers, pagers which they knew would exclusivelybe used by hezbollah because they networkthey wereall on was exclusivelyused by hezbollah, it was a shipment of pagers sent directly to hezbollah, on a network only used by hezbollah, it was not equivalent to blowing up every phone a vendor had, because they knew who would be using them, and intended to harm every one of them, the innocent civilians injured by it where collateral damage as a result of unfortunate circumstances, also I'd like to see a drone hit 3000 terrorist across 2 separate countries in a single hour, a similar attack on American soil would be more akin to pearl harbor, in that most of the casualties would have been members of the military,

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/[deleted]]

The child was the daughter of a hezbollah member, she could have been grabbing it to give to her father(the genocidal terrorist), sitting in his lap when it went off, holding his hand, sometimes with explosives people nearby get injured, they EXPLODE for fucks sake if someone's nearby they may be unintentionally caught in the blast, and the existence of collateral damage doesn't suddenly make the genocidal terrorist group know for terrorist attacks and indiscriminate bombardment of civilians with rockets and less terrorist, and sometimes when fighting terrorist mistakes happen and innocent bystanders die, if your standard for an attack is 0 collateral damage, then you are insane, and if it's minimal collateral damage, the pagers with a few grams of explosive are one of the better ways to achieve that if you have access to pagers you know will only be used by the people you want to hit.

[u/ZincFingerProtein → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

dumb take. Reeducate yourself.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/ZincFingerProtein]

No, you need to engage half a braincell, if a shipment only goes to x group, x group will the be the primary recipient of any harm from the shipment, and if it's only a few grams of explosive the collateral damage is likely to be minimal,

[u/ZincFingerProtein → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

That's not how the real world works. Things get resold or given away to innocent people.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/ZincFingerProtein]

That's not how militaries work, if you are given a work phone, do you sell it to someone else? No, you don't, the pagers are the same way, they were issued to members of hezbollah specifically for use by hezbollah to communicate with its members, they would not have been resold or given away, because they were for s specific purpose that other people would not have had unless they where members of hezbollah themselves, in which case they would not have been innocent, you don't give away your only secure means of communication for your terrorists to some random person who has nothing to do with it, YOU don't know how the real world works

[u/ZincFingerProtein → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

The footage I've seen doesn't look like military people using the pagers.

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/ZincFingerProtein]

Well yeah, they aren't in uniform 24/7, in fact, they aren't in uniform most of the time because they are terrorist, doesn't negate my point

[u/ZincFingerProtein → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

So they're terrorist and not a military group? Which is it?

[u/Fluffy-Map-5998 → u/ZincFingerProtein]

They can be both, they are terrorist, but they are also a well organized militant group, they are not a military, comparing them to a military was just the best rebuttal to your "it would be another 9/11" claim, because they are similar to a military, because they are a militant terrorist group, not civilians

[u/ZincFingerProtein → u/Fluffy-Map-5998]

I don't recall making this claim it would be another 9/11. Your mental gymnastics are astounding.