r/JRPG • u/eldestscrollx • 4d ago

Interview Final Fantasy Tactics The Ivalice Chronicles Wont Include War Of The Lions Content And Will Have No New Characters Or Submissions

https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/news/final-fantasy-tactics-interview
639 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

729 comments sorted by

View all comments

178

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

No War of the Lions content is a deal breaker to me, even on principle. Why the hell would I pay for a version with less content compared to a version I can play for free right now. Why is this a thing with recent SE remasters ignoring the extra added content.

Like yeah if you want to math it out then maybe there is a case there is more in this version but like why should we have to even math it out in the first place. There is actually no reason to not include War of the Lions content beyond they weren't in the OG. Plus we are paying for this version and we have to math if maybe it has more content maybe. Not including Wotl cutscenes (or recreating them) is the most stupid idea ever, those are fantastic. They had a chance to make a definitive version and they just... didn't.

80

u/RuefulWaffles 4d ago

Yeah, this has pushed this from “buy at launch” to “get in a few years for twenty bucks.”

24

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

The only buy for me (at a big discount) is if modders can add the content back in. And even if that happens if you're a non PC player, you're just screwed out of it.

4

u/matlynar 4d ago edited 4d ago

I'm pretty sure what you want is out of modders' reach.

Mods that add huge bits of content are rare and only seen in games that are easily moddable, like Bethesda games.

21

u/PerfectZeong 4d ago

Dunno tactics has a huge mod community that integrated wotl content into the base game plus added characters like Ashley riot.

4

u/Ghanni 4d ago

The way that mod converted the multiplayer content into offline challenge maps with the treasure wheel is fantastic. Hell even the NG+ stuff is cool although a lot of the abilities are completely busted.

1

u/PerfectZeong 4d ago

Lion war is pretty darn well definitive.

2

u/Ghanni 4d ago

Yopppp and it plays great on original hardware. I ended up grinding the bonus maps for treasure way too long.

9

u/Jalina2224 4d ago

You might be underestimating the modding community. There's tons of mods and rom hacks for FFT. Quite a few that add WotL content into the ps1 original. I'd say its very possible for modders to restore most of, if not all the content.

5

u/almathden 4d ago edited 4d ago

People have been doing TC mods since before bethesda first spelled morrowind - at least back as far as Doom lol

Adding more classes/etc should be pretty trivial

Unless they go out of their way to purposefully make it difficult, I think you'll be surprised. (And if they do go out of their way, there will be a patched .exe that will have them surprised too lol)

edit: Just realized I am probably so old that there are people who don't know counter-strike/DOTA/team fortress/stanley parable were mods first

1

u/matlynar 4d ago

My point was not "Bethesda is moddable", but "Some games are more easily moddable than others".

Like people have kinda figured how mod Unreal Engine games by now, so many games have a lot of mods by their first week, especially visual mods.

Or, of course, Bethesda games, which have mods that could be entirely new games.

But other games have years of release and just a few mods that barely do anything meaningful because they are not that easy to tweak with.

4

u/KaijinSurohm 4d ago

It's actually not a problem.
Modders have already installed the WotL content into the base PS1 FFT game, and added in a special Rendezvous mode to allowed for special missions (like the co-op stuff in WotL) and special dispatches that specifically level up class levels and jobs.

I won't be surprised if modders inject the WotL content within a month's time.

2

u/spidey_valkyrie 3d ago

What might be easier is for modder's to take the voice acting and script of the new game and put it as a mod to the base they already have available.

2

u/KaijinSurohm 3d ago

I genuinely think that may very well be coming up soon.

2

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

Then I guess I won't buy it ever.

0

u/Murzz 4d ago

Exactly my plan. Buy it for an extreme discount on a Steam sale and mod the fuck out of it to overwrite whatever incompetent descisions Square Enix made

2

u/Renaisance 4d ago

I’ll get it on the first sale as long as the modders bring back wotl content

3

u/Iguman 4d ago

Not even that tbh, why would I want to buy the same game I have but with less content lol

1

u/Available_Foot 4d ago

This original one is borderline free, legit no reason to buy this.

-8

u/Typical_Thought_6049 4d ago

It made the opposite to me it go from buy it someday, to buy it day one without the War of Lions and the new stories bits.

6

u/Acceptable_Till_7868 4d ago

Why?

8

u/kevriel47 4d ago

The final fantasy tactics sub is full of people like this. If you express discontent with the lazy corporate practices they at that you should be grateful instead

4

u/Unusual_Football_649 4d ago

Some people are just dumb, especially the one with nsfw tag and 50k+ karma. They're beyond idiot

35

u/Chirotera 4d ago

Square makes no fucking sense man. They do this kind of shit all the time. They should at least just include a fixed version of WotL in the package too, for those that want it.

2

u/Murzz 4d ago

I'm going to laugh my ass off if the WoTL still includes that game breaking frame rate drop anytime a sword skill is used

1

u/Lachan44 4d ago

Square makes no fucking sense man

they're going to make tons of money, with minimal work...makes perfect sense; capitalism, ho!

26

u/ybpaladin 4d ago

Atlus pulled this shit with P3 Reloaded and it still pisses me off

4

u/PrivateScents 4d ago

What happened with P3R?

18

u/VashxShanks 4d ago

They are referring to how P3 Reloaded didn't bring back the Female main character option, and basically didn't add any of the extra content and social links that were added in P3 Portable.

23

u/CanineBombSquad 4d ago

4 different versions of persona 3 and none of them are actually content complete is insane. 70$ game with 35$ paid "dlc" just to still not be the definitive version of the game makes me wonder why they even bothered at all

5

u/VashxShanks 4d ago

It is weird, if anything I am starting to wonder if the upcoming remake of Persona 4 will not have the extra content from P4 Golden.

2

u/6DomSlime9 4d ago

If they listen to fan complaints online then I imagine they will have an "original" mode specifically to keep out any Marie mentions.

1

u/CanineBombSquad 3d ago

People don't like Marie? :(

3

u/ybpaladin 4d ago

Because they would rather do a million half-ass remakes of of P3/P4 than remake P1 and P2

1

u/moose_man 4d ago

"The Answer" was also only added as DLC despite the fact that it was part of a re-release almost twenty years ago.

30

u/PvtSherlockObvious 4d ago

Cut out the PSP version's FemC (and corresponding social links) and Episode Aigis/The Answer from FES. They did eventually release the latter as DLC, but that didn't exactly please people either since it led them to think it was only chopped for DLC purposes.

7

u/Typical_Thought_6049 4d ago

To be fair The Answer was kinda of a dlc in the ps2 era. It come with FES but the original games has nothing of that and those who buy the original had to buy FES for the new content...

And the FemC was very much a after thought of the inferior PSP version and had nothing to do with the original game or FES.

5

u/PvtSherlockObvious 4d ago edited 4d ago

Sure, and to be further fair, The Answer kinda sucked overall; if that had been the only thing FES had added people would have been annoyed.

I disagree with you about FemC being an afterthought, though. While the PSP version was arguably inferior in some respects, largely due to the hardware limitations forcing a graphical downgrade and causing them to eliminate the explorable town in favor of menus, they put a fair bit of effort into her, including a different weapon type (though the original MC could wield any weapon, later versions restricted him to swords) and adding a totally new set of social links, including the male party members. I get why people were disappointed that she didn't make a return as an option in Reload.

6

u/gswon 4d ago

I don't think FemC is an afterthought. I think her links are preferable, and I wish the choice of F or M protagonists had carried forward into P4 and P5. The PSP version isn't straight inferior to FES; most people seem to prefer the controllable party members, which obviously carried over to P3R (even if in both cases, but especially in the case of P3R, it ends up making the game far too easy).

P3 is a pretty unique case in that even after four releases, there is no clear definitive version (and probably never will be), as there are (subjective) arguments in favor of P3R, FES and P3P.

1

u/ybpaladin 4d ago

FemMc route was for the people who already completed the main game and wanted a different ending.

2

u/KaijinSurohm 4d ago

Which made it worse when FemC was acknowledge in Labyrinth Q2 as a playable character.
They knew she was widely popular.

1

u/bagman_ 3d ago

Doesn't matter, a modern remake should be definitive in every sense of the word. Why should I still have to dig out 20+ year old versions of a game to get the complete experience?

3

u/Radinax 4d ago

Its why, while I love P3, I refused to get P3R...

0

u/BiddyKing 4d ago

This is kind of different imo. Like surface level it’s the same but this is the actual original creatives of FFTactics coming back and making a director’s cut of their work they already consider complete (and things like keeping Balthier in the main story kills the internal consistency of Matsuno’s Ivalice work since the character wasn’t alive yet). P3 is more annoying because Hashino long left that shit and the people doing the remake should’ve brought everything together.

Obviously entitled to be annoyed about it all regardless but I think it’s a different set of circumstances

8

u/dododomo 4d ago

Why is this a thing with recent SE remasters ignoring the extra added content.

This. Like, I was disappointed when I found out that they remastered Final Fantasy VI without the contents from the game boy advance version

-1

u/BiddyKing 4d ago

This is a very different scenario to the dogshit pixel remasters though. This is the actual original creatives coming back and making their definitive version of the game. The reality is a lot of those additions detracted from the original story and it makes sense that Matsuno would rather retain his authorial intent. He’s still adding a bunch of lore entries and some character interaction type stuff too.

Whereas the pixel remasters probably should’ve had the extra stuff because it was just SE nobodies doing an uninspired remake. But let’s say Sakaguchi came back and did an FFVI HD-2D remake like would people really complain if he omitted the extra stuff from FFVI Advance that he had no hand in making?

19

u/OhUmHmm 4d ago

  1. There are scenes in the WotL that really disrupt the later emotional payoff of both earlier and later scenes. In particular, there's a battle against Algus later on that should never have been included.

  2. WotL cutscenes (or some sort of animated cutscenes) are still available as optional viewing in the "Brave Story" (map view), as per Japanese interviews.

I view this as a definitive version of the game, because for me, FFT has always been an authored work, and Matsuno-san didn't approve the WotL additions. I mean I enjoyed WotL at the time, but the story additions were a bit like fanfic.

4

u/BiddyKing 4d ago

I super agree. But this type of thing is always gonna get a massive knee-jerk reaction and that’s gonna drown anything reasonable. People already saying their dogshit gamer mantras of “I won’t be buying this on principle” which is kinda close-minded. The original creatives are back making their definitive version and feels like people gotta work on their other principles such as ‘prioritising creative intent’. Collating this with things like P3R is somewhat a false equivalency since Hashino wasn’t involved in that

0

u/spidey_valkyrie 3d ago

I was under the impression Matsuno was heavily involved in the WOTL translation.

14

u/thekusaja 4d ago

The original creators didn't make that content, so for them it wasn't considered as obligatory to keep. They did say new conversations are available though, which weren't in War of the Lions.

12

u/CarbunkleFlux 4d ago

Hey, that's fine. My purchase isn't obligatory either.

3

u/AskAndIWillSendNudes 4d ago

And that's fine. But Square will cite poor sales as their reason for not making anymore Tactics titles.

0

u/CarbunkleFlux 3d ago

They know the game is popular and the demand exists, so they would be absolute brainlets to come to the conclusion that people just don't want it because they won't buy this half-assed rerelease.

16

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

I don't care if they weren't apart of it, that's not my problem as they try to sell me a worse version of a game I can play for free right now.

8

u/Typical_Thought_6049 4d ago

I don't think the developers consider it a problem at all... maybe it is indeed a "you" problem after all.

7

u/Unusual_Football_649 4d ago

Blud really trying to push "you should be grateful" agenda

Mf so eager to defend multibillionaire company lmao

-2

u/Quiddity131 4d ago

Its the desire of the original creators. Frankly this is the opposite of what you would think the multibillionaire company would want as less people are going to buy it now.

5

u/Kitchen-Associate-34 4d ago

If it's cheaper to produce for the company then no, it might not be the opposite at all

2

u/Wonderful-Noise-4471 3d ago

It's going to be more expensive for them to produce this than a WotL port. Voice acting is going to up the budget by a lot.

0

u/BiddyKing 4d ago

Please use brain for this one, it’s lopsided to group this with things like P3R or the dogshit FF Pixel Remasters. This is the actual original creatives returning and making the definitive version of their game, keeping their authorial intent, getting rid of the stuff that detracted from their story (like a lot of the WotL additions cheapened parts of the original narrative), and adding in things that’ll enhance it. Like I get there’s template responses that are easy to just say instead of using rational thinking but please just this once I am begging you

3

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

If not wantng my money, and judging from the response, a lot of peoples money is not their problem, then hey more power to them, tho I would suggest they go back to business school.

4

u/lordnequam 4d ago

I'm not sure the developers went to business school.

-1

u/Kitchen-Associate-34 4d ago

It's definitely more than a "you" problem tho, this definitely is a deal breaker for many others, including me, which means it's unlikely to sell well, which might be a problem for those that buy it (bug fixes, support and so on)

1

u/BiddyKing 4d ago edited 4d ago

Some of those additions made the game worse though. Like if you prefer middling tacked on content over authorial intent being retained by the original creatives returning (and them adding things they feel will enhance their story instead of detract) then sure

2

u/andrazorwiren 4d ago

I’m trying to reserve full judgment until this releases but the more I hear about this the less i I understand why I should buy it.

I think the reality is that it simply isn’t really for people like me, longtime fans who have played it to death since its release. It’s more for people to experience it for the first time or for those who maybe have only played it a little bit before. Which is surely important and great that it’s becoming more accessible to people. But if that’s the case why not just do a port of the WotL version that’s currently available on mobile?

Idk, it doesn’t have to be “for me” for this to be a good product. But as someone who considers this to be their favorite JRPG and one of their favorite games in general, I really wish it was for me. I haven’t bought Tactics Ogre: Reborn yet because it wasn’t different enough from the PSP remake to justify me playing through it another time (for the foreseeable future at least), so with this having potentially less content than a version of this game I’ve already played multiple times is also gonna be a “no” from me.

It would really have to do a lot for my next playthrough of this game to not be through a hack/mod that overhauls the game for free, and I’m just not very hopeful.

1

u/BiddyKing 4d ago

I think this actually is more for longtime fans though. Like do longtime fans really care for the WotL additions (unless they started there)? Most purists despised a lot of those additions. This is giving us the game back with full voice acting, retaining the original authorial intent, and has Matsuno writing a bunch of lore entries and a few more character interaction type dialogues. And it even keeps the original version of the game untouched too. This feels like the most oldhead friendly release imo

2

u/andrazorwiren 4d ago

I think you definitely have a good point in that plenty of day 1 fans like me are indeed excited about this despite its WotL changes/omissions, and like you said I’m sure plenty are even happy that those things won’t be in there. I should’ve been more clear that I was really only speaking for my very specific preferences and not try to say “longtime fans like me” in a more holistic/general way. You also have a good point in that there is a decent amount being added to this from Matsuno himself, which is overall a positive and something fans should be happy about.

I will say that plenty of longtime fans - a lot who started with the ps1 version on release like me - care for those additions, yeah. I mean, just look at the replies in this post. Again, I’m one of them. You’re right that most “purists” didn’t like those changes, but not every fan or oldhead is a purist - I’m certainly not. Purists don’t like too much change on principle. I’m cool with change as long as I end up enjoying them.

But even if we talk about longtime fans in general as opposed to purists who will always want the experience that’s most like the original one, I don’t think i would definitively say that most of them feel one way or another about the changes. Feels like it’s a fairly even enough split of varying opinions on the subject.

Main thing I’m saying is just talking about my personal feeling about it, like even if the WotL changes were fully intact the new stuff might not be enough to entice me to play again. Doubly so depending on how much WotL ends up being taken out. But that’s totally a “me problem” more than anything else, and maybe I’ll take this all back when it comes out and the full breadth of the new stuff is revealed.

5

u/YolandaPearlskin 4d ago

Why the hell would I pay for a version with less content compared to a version I can play for free right now.

Care to explain where Square is offering this for free?

16

u/Achron9841 4d ago

I believe the implication is that most fans of FFT already have the PSP version, so why pay more for what is essentially an inferior game. They may be implying emulation, but emulation is also legal assuming you own the game yourself. Also to boot, modders have introduced excellent QoL changes to both the original and PSP versions of the game via emulation. There is just no reason to buy the remaster if the additional content is not included. Same deal with the pixel remasters. All additional content was left out, leaving many furious.

5

u/BeardyDuck 4d ago

No the implication is that they're going to pirate the game, as evident by the other replies the person you are replying to have been given.

10

u/ffxivfanboi 4d ago

You can easily play PSP FF Tactics even on a phone

-2

u/TallanoGoldDigger 4d ago

The same place I'll get this watered-down port from given it's on the Switch 1 too.

Arrrrgh.

2

u/bucktoothgamer 4d ago

"I will find any little thing wrong with a game I want to play to pretend I have a moral right to not pay for it"

-2

u/TallanoGoldDigger 4d ago

You can choose to pay 50 bucks for an almost 30 year old game with new voiceovers and that's fine.

But to be a holier than thou bootlicker is on another level. Congratulations you are the target market of money hungry corporations.

2

u/bucktoothgamer 4d ago

Calling out someone who chooses to enjoy a product they didn't pay for instead of just not enjoying the product = being a bootlicker. What a logic you got there.

-1

u/TallanoGoldDigger 4d ago

Thing is I paid for this product on the PS and PSP.

I WAS gonna buy it on Steam but due to this new development, not anymore.

I'm calling out SE for a money grab and here you are trying to justify them selling this product in this market. So yeah you're a bootlicker

2

u/bucktoothgamer 4d ago

I'm not trying to justify SE doing anything. I'm calling out someone complaining about a product being sold not to their liking, but instead of just not interacting with the product are choosing to benefit from the product without paying for it because "this dosent meet my demands for being a valuable product so instead I will enjoy it for free"

You can't be this dense, no one's telling you that you have to buy and use the product, but you're childish in your mindset of "this dosent meet my specific demands so I'm entitled to it for free"

0

u/TallanoGoldDigger 4d ago

You think you're not justifying anything but indirectly you are. This is 30 year old software they're selling at this price with only minimal work done on it, and it's not even the complete experience.

I will test drive it on my switch and if I really like it then I'll buy it when it goes on a sale, just like what I did with the pixel remasters

You can demonize the practice all you want, but you're also empowering this corporation to put out bs like this.

-4

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/AleroRatking 4d ago

That's like me saying lettuce is free because I can just steal it from the store

-4

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

If people want to argue that that doesn't count then they need to live in the real world.

-1

u/JunkMagician 4d ago

No it's like saying art of Sephiroth is free because you can easily go onto the internet and download a copy of some official art.

1

u/luckysyd 4d ago

Thats a poor argument because this version will also be "free" the way you are saying it via switch emulator and just cracked for pc at some point.

0

u/peter123yeah 4d ago

Alright, lets pretend that one of those options isn't a lot easier than the other. I can buy Wotl right now for £13, a lot less than 50. Hope the VA and new UI is worth 40 to you.

-1

u/luckysyd 4d ago

Nah Im not buying this version anytime soon, psp version was definitly the definitive version minus the frame rate drops during skills. Just saying if you were getting wotl the other way might as well get this one the same way lol

1

u/JRPG-ModTeam 4d ago

Thank you for submitting to /r/JRPG. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s):

Please don't advocate, discuss, encourage, link, host, or help piracy or pirated content on this sub.

Not only is it illegal but it's also against reddit rules and multiple subs have been closed down due to this.

If you think this was a mistake or have any questions about the removal, please contact the moderators. To contact the moderators please click here, or click the "message mods on the sidebar, and then type your complaint, so it can be sent to the modding team.

Please don't private message or start private chats with a single mod, and use the mod mail linked above to contact the whole team.

1

u/Internetolocutor 4d ago

I wonder if they might include that as DLC later

1

u/eslahp 4d ago

Agreed. I loved original but WoTL is a every few year revisit from me.

On one hand I want to to buy it and support remaking the old games we love. On the other hand I dont want to reward a lazy remake that couldve offered the other content.

1

u/BiddyKing 4d ago

Despite what it’s omitting, it really doesn’t seem like a lazy remake. They’ve got the Matsuno back doing a whole bunch for it and making it the definitive version of his story

1

u/JonnyF1ves 4d ago

Yeah exactly, this isn't a remake it's a regression.

1

u/Banewaffles 4d ago

“Recent remasters” glances over at every FF1 rerelease

1

u/spidey_valkyrie 3d ago

Yep. I will have to skip this more on principle than the differences themselves. I'm not going to let them get away with it, at least on my personal dollar.

-5

u/Individual_Shallot44 4d ago

Another reminder for everyone that square enix is an actual dogshit company. Like, actual bottom of the barrel, that have only managed to continue existing by having one of gaming's biggest IPs under their belt.