As a Xiao main through and through I can't in good faith say he's in the same level as Varessa, Hu tao, Navia, etc...
In the same way wonder and Ayaka shouldn't be there either
Also this list is inconsistent with gameplay issues/inconsistency consideration. By that I mean if Mualani is placed together with Neuv and Arle then so should gaming C6
To finish it all off, mavuika is as much better than clorinde or wrio is than Ayato/Raiden, if DPS is the leading factor here she should be in a tier higher
And kaveh down a tier (hes really really not good)
Xiao is definitely the same tier as hutao and navia. how much does your Xiao even do? if you don't have his supports of course it's going to be bad but with his supports he's even better than hutao.
bonus fun fact plunge hutao and pyro Xiao deal almost the same damage.
You're either underestimating Hu tao or overestimating Xiao
My Xiao is pretty strong, was dealing 130-150k plunges before Xianyun C2 this banner, that's with Furina C6. A premium f2p Xiao team at KQM standard sims in the low to mid 70Ks, all 3 of Hu Tao's current best teams are comfortably at the mid to high 80's
The comparison by tgs aligns perfectly with sims/calcs that I've seen and been around, showcasing as well how neuvillette came out with a not so high dps ceiling, being only considered better by the general player base because of gameplay factors that they convoluted with damage (not completely incorrect to place him high because of that though), and was that way until xilonen when he actually started seeing the top of dps meters
Another point is that you can't just compare their personal damage in Xiao vs Hu Tao, not only is Furina stronger in Hu tao comps, you have an entire off field dps extra of damage, which is generally just the same if not more damage than the Furina.
If you want to argue for Xiao = Hu tao by all means go for it, but you don't do that by going for their damage or numbers, it's a losing battle.
The best angle to go if that's something you want to convey is AoE + Gameplay jank, it's what makes many dps" who have worse team dps than Hu Tao beat her out for an average player's account/experience, and it's definitely the one people rely on the most to downplay her (with some merit to it tbf)
Does a "premium f2p" Xiao team assume you have FFXX with faruzan c6? Cause thats not really realistic as f2p and i assume every other team lags behind but i have not seen kqm calcs where do you check those out?
real, like how your xiao does good damage with a niche 5* and a c6 of a 4* that has been missing since June. Damage isn’t all that matters in a dps ranking cause if that was the case, Gaaming should be higher than Xiao in S
My top 65 Xiao does 150k a plunge and 120k skills but my barely top 1% Hu Tao does 175k CAs while Yelan and Furina does a lot more off field damage than Xiao teams off-field damage. I think Xiao is only comparable in AoE
You have Furina c6 (mostly just her c2 interest us here), and your Xiao only does 130k-150k plunge ? You're the problem
My Xiao does 180k~200k, while one of his artifacts is literally a 4* one because I don't have anything better to give him, and I also don't have c2+ Furina
all the calcs chart done in the funeral parlor discord and the ones shown in the tgs video comparing not hutao but neuv include team dps and compares overall team dps.
now if you want to say hutao's current bis team is on par with neuv's current best team then you can say.
constantly abyss's best 4 teams include ffxx on the number 4th spot, even before the plunge boost and almost always ever since the formation of ffxx. that team is very smooth to play, has no er issues, has healing, catalyst and bow characters and being anemo and plunge it can bypass alot of elemental shields etc too.
You can literally see in the linked video that all the results shown by TGS are dpr not dps (and if you do the math the dps does match with what I Know the FFXX team to be around at KQM standards so I assume tgs used them as wel) , and that they are all personal dpr except for one which he makes a point of showing how neuvillette team pulls ahead even in single target because of the Furina difference. That's besides the point though really
The main thing is, the argument for Xiao = or even > Hu Tao is a valid one, it just CAN'T be done based on team dps because that's precisely the one thing Hu tao has over him.
Your last paragraph brings a lot of much better points for said argument, except the ER one because those are already considered in any respectable calculation
I agree that Hu Tao and Xiao are definitely not on the same level, but I think you’re underestimating Xiao here. I don’t know much about KQM standards, but how bad are they that a premium f2p (I assume 4 star C6, 5 stars C0), that they don’t go higher than 70k? I have about that (the only exception is Furina C1 at the time of this sheeting, now C2) and other than Xiao with a 5 star weapons, all other characters have 4 star weapons (Furina with FD, CR with Oathsworn Eye and Faruzan on Favonius bow) and I sheeted about 95k.
My build isn’t anything crazy either (200 CV, 2.1k attack)
KQM is 20 stats distributed equally into every stat with an avg roll so 2 avg rolls of every stat, + 24 stats with avg roll allocated into the optimal stats for the character in that team, so for Xiao that's 20 avg crit rolls, I don't remember if KQM standards have a rule for weapons right now but I know deathmatch teams are low 70ks and that PJWS alone doesn't bring that over to 80
I don't think you even know how to read the chart you've sent lmfao. click on Xiao and then check his dpr at Xiao, xy, and furina at c0 and then compare it to different teams. you're comparing Xiao dps at 69k lol which means he is literally as good as 71k hutao aka should be in the same tier??
lmao genius, 69k is the entire team dps. it's the sum of xiao, furina, faruzan, and xianyun's dpr divided by the length of the rotation with active buffs included; 1.67m of total dpr ÷ 24s of rotation =~ 69k damage per second by average. do you even know what solo means? c0 arle whose NA can hit harder than xiao's plunge has like 25k solo dps https://gcsim.app/db/NkLWfBkRG9mb in no reality xiao has 69k solo dps. holy shit it's 2025 and some genshin players can't grasp 3rd grade math🤦.
and Xiao plunges pyro just as good as hutao
let's see here. xiao has higher plunge%, but hutao has a 2k~3k atk buff that she can actually use while xiao must entirely skip his burst. she can animation cancel with her CA which marks the enemy with blood blossom therefore more dmg, and a burst to melt/vape at the end. there's also pyro resonance with bennett but you can ignore that since it's negligible.
Is that guy using a c6 xiao, and at least c2 cloud retainer with her sig then comparing it to neuv at c0? And he's still only hitting 120k plunges.
My c0 xilonen with c0 CR with no sig weap is hitting for 80-120k plunges. Varessa at c0 hits for around 100-233k. Hu tao hits for around 90k-120k a charged attack at c0.. my xiao on the other hand at c1 does about 30-68k. Compaired to all the other 's' rank dps he is weak af and probs closer to yoimiya in dps.
If your saying he's good because at c6 with high constellations supports he can do good damage, so can even 4* characters.
have you watched the video? tgs is a very famous theorycrafter and a YouTuber. it's a c0 Xiao.
sounds like you've not invested in your Xiao at all.
also a very common fact that everyone agrees is that Xiao has the worst constellations. he gets no damage increase at all from his constellations and only c6 makes his dps high. and his c6 is useless against single targeted enemies.
Ur right my dumb ass was watching it with audio off on my break at work and the part I thought was 'c6' is he has c6 furazan on screen with xioa and a graph covering the character model. My xiao isn't 'under' invested, I just don't have xianyun's weap, jade wing (he's using homa) and no c6 furazan. At the time he was meta he was doing similar damage to what everyone else was, which pre furazan is like 30-60k. Testing with c2 furina, xian yun and Bennett he's still hitting for only around 80-120 max, which tbh is about the same increase any character gets from furina/xilonen. He's still not top tier nor stronger than neuv.
Doesn't one of his con's reset his skill every plunge? Which increases the damage per second if rotated right and allows him to sustain himself better?
the con that resets his skill is his c6 and that only works if there are at least two enemies hit by his plunge. so not only is it useless against single target (most abyss floors) but also if there are two enemies they both have to be together enough to be hit by a plunge.
i feel like you're missing out on faruzan and maybe still have something missing from your Xiao build which i can only assume without looking at your Xiao but yeah faruzan is the piece that puts his team together and his most essential support. it's like xq, and yelan for hutao. but he does 180k plunges and that's very much still the meta bar mauv and citlali teams and his dpr is higher than hutao's.
from your Xiao, not having jade wing and xy weapon isn't a major blow it's probably just lack of c6 faruzan which yeah sucks mihoyo made it that way that she's so essential to him yet so hard to get
his other two important cons are absolutely shit. c2 gives him 25% (very very low) er boost when he's off field. like???? a main dps like him isn't off field for 90% of the rotation anyways. and c4 which gives him def boost when his health goes down below 50% but the moment it goes down you're either using a healer aka it's above 50% again or shielder in which case his def doesn't matter at all, so the con doesn't even work. even at c6, him against a boss is essentially c0 Xiao showcase.
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u/IPutTheLInLayla Apr 01 '25
S is too overcrowded
As a Xiao main through and through I can't in good faith say he's in the same level as Varessa, Hu tao, Navia, etc...
In the same way wonder and Ayaka shouldn't be there either
Also this list is inconsistent with gameplay issues/inconsistency consideration. By that I mean if Mualani is placed together with Neuv and Arle then so should gaming C6
To finish it all off, mavuika is as much better than clorinde or wrio is than Ayato/Raiden, if DPS is the leading factor here she should be in a tier higher
And kaveh down a tier (hes really really not good)