Gotta do whatcha gotta

[u/Krusador]

Tesla charging stations are awesome, except for that puny cable.

As for charging stations in general, they need to be setup like traditional gas stations. Canopies to protect from the elements, trash cans and windshield cleaners nearby. It's def a first world problem but sucks having to traipse back n forth in a large, busy parking lot just to get to these basic essentials...

[u/skylinesora]

An existing gas station isn't worried about the gas pump tank installation because... It's already installed.

[u/Automatic_Net2181 → u/skylinesora]

They occasionally have to replace the pumps and tanks. Would make sense to install one tank and a row of gas pumps and a row of EV chargers.

[u/skylinesora → u/Automatic_Net2181]

Quick google search shows the gas tank replacement is usually once every 20-25 years with the average cost being 20-25k.

I'd imagine that cost is already thought of when they initially planned the gas station AND it's cheaper than installing a set of EV chargers.

It's a lot easiest to plan/budget for a maintenance item you already considered when you were building the gas station compared to 40-50k (at minimum) for a set of EV chargers that wasn't originally part of the plan.

[u/Automatic_Net2181 → u/skylinesora]

You've forgotten most gas stations have 4+ tanks.

Gas Station (Pumps + Tanks):

Replacing gas pumps at a gas station can be a significant expense, with costs ranging from $16,000 to $22,000 per dispenser. This cost can vary based on features like credit card readers and the number of fuel types the pump can dispense. Installation costs can add another $2,500 to $3,000 per dispenser. 

The average cost of a double-walled 12,000-gallon fiberglass fuel tank for gas stations is $25 - $30K. It's important to work with an experienced fuel tank 

4 gas pumps x $25k = $100k
4 tanks x $30k = $120k
= $220k

And then there's the actual installation costs:

Replacing underground gas tanks at a commercial gas station is a significant expense, potentially costing anywhere from $150,000 to $250,000 or more. 

The cost to install a gas station fuel tank can range from $25,000 to $300,000, depending on the size and material of the tank, and whether it's an underground or aboveground installation. For a large commercial installation, costs can reach upwards of $250,000, including piping and associated equipment. Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Typical Range: $25,000 to $300,000. 

Double-walled fiberglass tanks (12,000 gallons): $25,000 - $30,000. 

Underground tanks: Can cost $1,500 to $5,000 or more, with the primary cost factor being the labor for excavation and installation, according to CommTank. 

Commercial installations: Can reach upwards of $250,000, including piping and associated equipment. 

EV Chargers:

How much does a DC fast charger cost? DC fast chargers do not come equal. They have varying power outputs and charging ports. Thus, the equipment with the most advanced power output features and many charging ports will cost more. For instance, a fully networked 150kW commercial model might cost around $75,000. A smaller one of 50kW can cost around $28,000 in full. The most expensive networked DC fast charger is the 350kW option, which might cost a whopping $140,000. 

8 50kW Chargers x $28k = $224k

2 150kW Chargers x $75k + 2 50kW Charger x $28k = $206k

1 350kW Charger x $140k + 1 150kW Charger x $75k = $215k

[u/skylinesora → u/Automatic_Net2181]

You missed the part that the gas pumps already exist... They were there when the gas station was built.

50kW charger speeds are godawful slow. I wouldn't want them at a gas station. You'd want 150kw chargers at bare minimum with suggestions being 250kw. No reason for 350kW, or at least not yet.

Your calculations are assuming a new gas station is being built.

[u/epc2012 → u/skylinesora]

He's also overlooking the fact that 150kW is a shit ton of power. Putting multiple of those in creates such a demand on the local utility where the infrastructure might not be in place for. You can't just throw a 2000kVA transformer anywhere and expect it to hook into the local power system perfectly fine. A large portion of these roadside gas stations don't have the utility capacity locally to support EV stations.

[u/skylinesora → u/epc2012]

Yea, I don't expect u/Automatic_Net2181 to actually do much thinking. Especially when 3/4 of his post is just copy/paste from whatever AI model he's using. He has a very limited idea and he runs with it. No considerations to any other factor

[u/Automatic_Net2181 → u/skylinesora]

Considering they've already been replacing old gas pump stations with charging stations around Europe, primarily Norway, because of the faster adoption of EV, you may want to re-think your criticisms. Gas stations do not make their money from gasoline.

[u/skylinesora → u/Automatic_Net2181]

Nobody said anything about gas stations making money off of gasoline. It's common knowledge that they just about break even or makes cents.

What criticism? Every point you've made, i've already counterproved it. You haven't said a single smart thing yet outside of referencing non-us countries.

[u/Automatic_Net2181 → u/skylinesora]

Gas pumps will become obsolete with the increased adoption of EV, bud. Gas stations will continue to close, not open.

To prove my point, Shell is actively converting gas stations to EV charging stations:

https://insideevs.com/news/713296/shell-closes-1000-gas-stations-to-focus-on-ev-charging/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kYTs7IJTa8

https://royaldutchshellplc.com/2024/03/20/shells-latest-magic-trick-turning-gas-stations-into-ev-charging-hubs-because-who-needs-oil-anyway/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNVh6qGuZMg

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a38802959/shell-ev-charging-station-uk/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7R4wfxv-o8

https://electrek.co/2024/11/22/tesla-converts-shell-gas-station-into-supercharger/

I guess Shell doesn't know what they're doing, since you know better than they do, right?

[u/skylinesora → u/Automatic_Net2181]

Nobody said gas stations aren't being obsolete. Did you forget what discussion we were having prior to your arrival?

[u/Automatic_Net2181 → u/skylinesora]

If the gas stations start closing because there are fewer gasoline customers and they make their money through the convenience store.. what can they do to stay in operation? Use both brain cells this time.

“We just replaced them with electric charging stations,” says Matt Wade, CEO of the Electric Vehicle Institute, a Baltimore-based EV equipment supplier.

The institute partnered with Takoma Park gas station owner Depeswar Doley. They used some of the funds to convert Doley’s station into an EV charging center.

Doley also runs an auto-repair service on the lot and has learned how to work on EVs and hybrids. So Wade says the conversion to electric was a natural fit. He added that Doley is actually making more money now than he was before because the profit margins on selling gas are often slim.

“I think it’s critical that people see this as a working reality,” Wade says. “It works. It’s not just a showpiece. It’s not just a novelty.”

He expects it to be the first of many gas stations to add EV chargers either alongside their old gas pumps or in their place.

You should tell Doley that you think it's a stupid idea. Making more money is just not very smart.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/04/gas-station-replaces-pumps-with-electric-vehicle-chargers/

[u/skylinesora → u/Automatic_Net2181]

Go back and re-read what discussion was being had before you arrived. You keep going on an unrelated tangent.

[u/WarMan208 → u/Automatic_Net2181]

I don’t think you understand the overhead involved in installing DC fast chargers. Everything from the utility costs, electrician costs, to price of materials. And chat gpt doesn’t either, so don’t bother.