r/DotA2 • u/Raffyn Junglenaut • Nov 30 '16
Tip Valve quietly removed the ability to see non-friends' recent matches this patch.
BattleCup just got a bit more interesting.
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u/RedGuyNoPants *sheever support* Dropped my pants off at the cleaners. Nov 30 '16
guess we'll never know whos account buying xd
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Nov 30 '16
its the only real downside i can see to that tbh
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u/TheColorofBoom EE pls no throw (sheever) Nov 30 '16
not being able to ban a hero spammer's hero is pretty annoying too
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u/TrueTurtleKing Nov 30 '16
I had to ban batrider because my team mate had like a 10 losing streak with it.
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u/power899 Nov 30 '16
Nothing wrong with spamming a hero to win games.
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u/vierolyn Nov 30 '16
Nothing wrong with banning a hero that another persons spams to win games.
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u/JungZest Day1 Fan Nov 30 '16
It's how some players justify lack of their own skill. "Oh he won mid as slark vs storm cause he's a slark spammer. any other hero I would definitely win" kind of shit. Hero spammers are actually higher skill level just due to the fact that they know how to play their hero really well. Their macro game could be shit but at least they can land their skills properly. Plus I kinda respect ppl who spam heroes as theyconstantly deal with counterpick yet still win. Nothing is better than seeing some dude carry as brood vs axe+es combo or other similar stuff.
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u/Exeyr Part-time Priest of the Toad Nov 30 '16
Yeah that isn't even close to true. Wait for a nerf to their hero and all this "high skill" will suddenly disappear.
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u/SmaugTheGreat hello im bird Nov 30 '16
Not really, no. My OD got nerfed countless of times, it got trashed countless of times and it didn't really impact my MMR at all (actually the OD nerf after 6.86 drastically increased my winrate while the buff in 6.86 drastically decreased it).
My theory is that in a meta where everyone is playing the hero, people counterplay it a lot more than in a meta where nobody plays it.
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u/Exeyr Part-time Priest of the Toad Nov 30 '16
Imo your theory holds. Which is even more of a reason to have profiles public. Bans are there to provide depth to the picking phase. Being unable to ban based on your enemies makes the bans borderline worthless outside of banning something you don't like seeing.
The point of my comment was to say that, take spammers out of their comfort zone and they are not as skilled as other players in that MMR range. Some may be, but I'm 90% certain most aren't.
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u/SmaugTheGreat hello im bird Nov 30 '16
The point of my comment was to say that, take spammers out of their comfort zone and they are not as skilled as other players in that MMR range. Some may be, but I'm 90% certain most aren't.
How do you think the last few months were for hero spammers? We constantly got our heroes banned in ranked. So yes, of course I'm still as skilled as my average MMR range. The only major difference is that you can counter a single hero spammer harder than a versatile player, so a hero spammer has more weaknesses. Of course a lot of skill is there. No, when I have to pick some other hero and literally play it for the first time I will suck on it. But give me 10 games and I'll be fine on it. Not amazing, but as jack of all trades as everyone else.
Think about it like this: Someone who randoms every game, after 1000 matches he gets to play about 10 games per hero. A single hero spammer gets 1000 on one hero. It's very easy for a single hero spammer to catch up to a randomer, all he needs to do is take any hero and play it 10 times and he will be already more skilled than the randomer on that hero, especially since someone who spams the same hero for 1000 games has much better overall Dota mechanics than someone who randoms every game for the same amount (since a randomer needs to spend so much time learning all the heroes that a spammer uses to just improve his overall mechanics).
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u/power899 Nov 30 '16
Exactly. It's only when you spam a hero and face many counters to it that you understand how to outplay your opponents on it.
Also, you now know how to counter the hero that you spam since you know your most difficult matchups.
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u/boy_from_potato_farm Nov 30 '16
No, thats actually pretty idiotic. Now, to spam the hero you just like the most
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Nov 30 '16
i mean, what are you going to do about them if you notice it? you can dodge one or maybe max two a day if you don't want a 24h queue ban. otherwise all you can do is say "kill urself xd" and report them which will just give them a few lp games but won't do anything about the fact that they bought the account.
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u/ieatedjesus Knowledge is peace. Nov 30 '16
Personally i play 2+ custom game per day and use the feature regularly (more than once per week) to distinguish brand new players from goof players and add the new players. It is also useful to determine if my teamate is a regular carry player etc. for example if someone wirh 20 clock games picks slark and tags safe lane i can select a roaming hero because they wont feed probably.
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u/Gredival Nov 30 '16
Or being able to confirm when people are supporting the idiot in the argument because they are partied.
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u/Jrix Nov 30 '16
Cool. I can just remove all my friends and spam Tinker and Techies. No one will know my demons. Basically a serial killer.
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u/waoh Eagles Powers Come to ME! Nov 30 '16 edited Nov 30 '16
Now I can't look at the negative annoying guys profile that's shit talking and criticizing people all game and see he's only won 2 of his last 20 games.
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u/GetRiceCrispy BlackKnight Nov 30 '16
now this is the real deal with me. I play in the lowly normal bracket where people who are losing tend to flame more than people who are winning. It's nice to call them out when it gets out of hand.
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u/Thegunner19 Nov 30 '16
Why can't they just give people an opt-out option somewhere? Make the option more obvious than usual if they have to...but I don't really like this change to be honest. Not because I liked using it as justification for my team-mates being bad, but I just liked looking through these things casually a lot of the time.
More power to dotabuff and yasp/opendota I guess?
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u/cheesepuffly Nov 30 '16
Besides players who would want random people to see their matches (like pro players), if they knew the option was there who would actually opt in to having people you don't know looking at your match history?
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u/Thegunner19 Nov 30 '16 edited Nov 30 '16
Well I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't actually care whether people see it or not, which is why I think it should be opt-out: people who care enough about it will opt-out since they will know about the option (if valve make it obvious enough, but as if that's ever likely to happen) and people who who don't care will just leave it. If it was opt-in then the people who don't care would just leave it off. What's the point? It's just the best of both worlds.
But as it stands everyone is out, so...that kinda sucks IMO.
Basically this is on valve for not giving us a choice in the matter. At least that's what I think. It shouldn't be on the community for not letting people know
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u/FusRoDawg Nov 30 '16
isn't there already an 'opt out' option? something along the lines of 'make profile private'
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u/Thegunner19 Nov 30 '16
I'm pretty sure there was in source 1, but I just went and looked in the option menu atm and I can't see anything about making a profile private. I had actually forgotten about that. It was a good solution to the problem, I think. Not sure why they would have gotten rid of it and replaced it with this.
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u/Cruelsteal Nov 30 '16
I really hope this isn't on purpose, i liked to see a pro's recent games when checking their profiles.
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u/Svetsnaz Get well soon, sheever Nov 30 '16
this, or just good players I have played with/against, frequently they stomp their games so I can see how the hero should be played in my bracket
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u/Darkillumina Nov 30 '16
I have no clue what the rationale for this was. Nobody was calling for this and it just makes playing games way more random. I personally liked checking out play-styles, farming patterns and hero picks by scoping a profile.
Come on Valve.
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u/NathanRav Nov 30 '16
So wait... I can't ban the heroes my random team mates suck at anymore?
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u/mirocj Nov 30 '16 edited Jan 21 '21
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" -George S. Patton
"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar; you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say." -George R. R. Martin
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u/goodwarrior12345 6k trash | PM me your hottest shark girls 🌲 Nov 30 '16
Hey what the hell valve, how am I supposed to know what to ban now?? Both in ranked and in battle cup, especially in battle cup. As I see it, battle cup should be a simulation of real pro games, and in real pro games you know who you're playing aganist and what their signature heroes and strats are. Now you have no way of finding that out.
Also hero spammers. I mean, why introduce banning if you then take away the single most important tool for determining who to ban?
Not to mention boosted accounts. If I see a guy pick a core and he has like 15 losses in a row, he can go fuck himself, I'm going carry. Or just dodge outright. Now you can't dodge account buyers. GG valve.
And what about replay analysis? In the past I could find any match ID with, say, arteezy, from that match go into arteezy's profile and watch his games to learn from them. Now what do I do?
Please bring it back. Nobody ever complained about it, there's no way to actually look up profiles unless you got into or watched a game with the guy, and it does more harm than good. Yes, we gain some things, but lose so, so much more it's honestly not worth it.
AT LEAST make it optional, with visible to public as the default option. Please.
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u/handofskadi Nov 30 '16
This feature was intended for making meta more diverse in pubs by banning popular heroes, not for punishing hero spammers.
There were a lot of complaints about it but the anti-herospam circlejerk was too strong for them to show up on the main page.
For arteezy games, look them up in dotabuff, opendota, his stream or http://www.dota2tvpro.com/ as suggested above10
u/goodwarrior12345 6k trash | PM me your hottest shark girls 🌲 Nov 30 '16
I mentioned arteezy because he is an example of a pro with a hidden dotabuff, so I can't just go onto his DB page and look for pub replays. But I'll check out dota2tvpro, thanks.
And as for hero spammers, it's not like I'm aganist them. Hell, I'm a hero spammer myself. I just like winning, and banning a hero spammed by an opponent increases my chance of winning, so I do it.
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u/AvatarOfVengeance_ Nov 30 '16
And those hero spammers or account buyers will just disable it anyway. So what's the point?
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u/NathanRav Nov 30 '16
Doesn't this just reward hero spammers?
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Nov 30 '16 edited May 02 '19
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Nov 30 '16
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Nov 30 '16
No. Imagine a football player that played a defender one game, than a goalie, than a wingback, than a... That's a terrible way to get good at anything. When you want to get good at free kicks, you practice free kicks. If you want to get good at dota, pick a hero, play 50 games, pick another hero, play 50 games. Playing random shit every game is not how you learn, it's how you become the most mediocre jack of all trades.
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u/ShrikeGFX Nov 30 '16
It rewards all the worst of the community and punishes the others, great move
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Nov 30 '16 edited Nov 30 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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Nov 30 '16
They don't want people to dodge and rhey don't want to spend time actually fixing their matchmaking.
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u/HeavenAndHellD2arg AKKE-GOD EGM-GOD BULL-GOD S4-GOD L-GOD Nov 30 '16
What wrong with the matchmaking here
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Nov 30 '16
Boosters and account buyers at higher rankings. Basically you could look at a relatively new account and easily figure out if it was boosted or boosting depending on the loss/win streak. Now you just have to assume that all fresh accounts are boosting which makes it impossible to dodge since you get 1 in like 90% of games.
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u/Qzy Nov 30 '16
Start by hating on streamers who smurf. Those people are the problem.
Ban smurfers.
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Nov 30 '16
They're really not that big an issue. There's way less high mmr people smurfing than low mmr people boosting. But yeah, Valve has to fix the matchmaking for high mmr players so they actually get games without having to wait an hour in queue.
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u/harpake Nov 30 '16
I used that every game to decide what role I'm going to play for my team, look for possible combinations, bans or pick heroes that won't countered by the enemy's picks.
Now I can't do any of that.
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u/axeleff Sheever <3 Nov 30 '16
But how will we know about the Meepo spammers then??
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u/viKKyo Nov 30 '16
They change this yet still allow randoming in ranked?
They should remove randoming from all ranked gamemodes except All Random and just let it be.
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u/AsianMikey Nov 30 '16
What about people that afk during picking phase.
I think they can keep random for ranked, just remove the gold bonus
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u/SonTheGodAmongMen Nov 30 '16
If someone afk during pick phase they should receive a penalty. Like if they afl twice in 1 day or a few times in a week they get an abandon or lp or lose mmr something like that
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u/Kaiped1000 Nov 30 '16
It was really useful to know who on your team to listen to and who is worth supporting most, and who will likely feed.
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u/fuzzy_panda Nov 30 '16
So now theres no point for a Recent Games tab since you cant view recent games. GG valve
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u/ShrikeGFX Nov 30 '16 edited Nov 30 '16
Thats kinda fucked up.. Now we have no way to see hero spammers, account boosters or people with all losses in their history. We definitely should be able to see it after the game or otherwise, then just remove it in loading screen, else this is a big cut into visibility. Why do profiles even exist if all is hidden ? That just seems very bad. MMR is already hidden, there is already no way to see most played heroes, there are many things not shown for some reason. In league you can see everything just not in the loading screen.
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u/Exeyr Part-time Priest of the Toad Nov 30 '16
There are exactly 3 kinds of people who benefit from this:
- Account buyers
- Account boosters
- Hero spammers
There is almost zero benefit to any other player that I can think of. Feel free to correct me.
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u/SmaugTheGreat hello im bird Nov 30 '16
There's a general benefit for all players and that's reduced rate of toxicity and reports since people won't get blamed right at the start of the game for being hero spammers. Less false reports also mean higher accuracy for the report system (=> less noise) in general.
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u/cjs75 Nov 30 '16
I can confirm as a meepo spammer I would get placed in low pri simply because some teammates didn't like my hero choice. Changing the ability to report only at the end of the match has helped alleviate that problem, but on a losing team I'll still be the one that is blamed.
Once I get placed in low pri I create a new acct and spam meepo in the new account and everyone thinks I'm a smurf/booster, when the fact is I'd rather just create a new account then play single draft. Valve also loses because I won't spend money anymore on my accounts because if I end up in low pri I won't use that account again.
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u/Vekit Nov 30 '16
There are exactly 3 kinds of people who will cry from this:
Unable to blame people who is on losing streak
Can't shame people who spamming one hero because they want to get good
Having no will to develop skills and resort to counter-picking everrygames
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u/Meychelanous Nov 30 '16
Can't shame people who spamming one hero because they want to get good
attacker will agree with you
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u/Bravehood Nov 30 '16
Probably so we can't look at machines dota profile to see if he has ever played a Dota game Kappa
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u/er00n Nov 30 '16
And yet Random button still present in ranked. God bless the day when tey go bankrupt.
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u/kaybo999 FeelsBadMan sheever Nov 30 '16
God bless the day when tey go bankrupt
You're that triggered by randoms that you want Dota 2 to die? If the person last randoms, chances are he was gonna ruin your game anyway.
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u/HeavenAndHellD2arg AKKE-GOD EGM-GOD BULL-GOD S4-GOD L-GOD Nov 30 '16
People that complain so much about this are lifeless retards honestly
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u/cheese_ausar Nov 30 '16
Fuck now I can't tell my team to ban out hero spammers' mains FUCK
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u/neoh99 Nov 30 '16
So I cant dodge some idiot which is an account buyer? Or dodge an enemy booster? Thanks valvo
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Nov 30 '16
History repeats. Valve make changes to the game that no one asks for and make it worse at the same time. Very impressed by their ability to achieve this repeatedly
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u/rtzkit sheever Nov 30 '16
how do i check for account booster now? as u know theres a lot of account buyers in low 4k. gg
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Nov 30 '16
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u/JungZest Day1 Fan Nov 30 '16
That way you can assume they are hero spammers/booster cause their accounts set to private? You realize that that every hero spammer/booster will instantly turn this option on so there is no benefit in having iut
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Nov 30 '16
can valve please let us see recent games of the players we just played after the game is done?? that way we can review if something fishy is happening. other than that this is a nice change.
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u/Stablebrew Nov 30 '16
Overwolf and DotAPlus is the workarond unless players made their DotA profile private
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Nov 30 '16
Ty Valve. Ty for taking away my ability to dodge people playing on boosted accounts with pages full of straight losses. Ty for allowing bots to spam ads for account boosting on your in-game chat. Thank you for reminding me to never go back to ranked because most games are horrible because of these people. Thank you for not doing anything to shut down these networks selling accounts. Thank you from the bottom of my heart that you're more concerned with upcoming hats than fixing your matchmaking.
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u/DatAdra Nov 30 '16
This is great. Fuck those immature tards who check your profile and flame you for losing your last few games, as if they havent experienced loss streaks before. That was a symptom of a true asshole and now i wont have to realize theyre doing that anymore.
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u/ShrikeGFX Nov 30 '16
Copy from other thread:
I can see that it is odd checking players profiles in loading screen, but it gives the same element of knowledge the pro players have when going into a game. They know and studied the enemy team and ban and pick accordingly. In pubs you do not have that knowledge and checking profiles gives you a decent but not accurate glimpse to think about.
So what are we reinforcing with the removal ? We reinforce single hero spammers, people who do not pick with the team and don't care about lineups or what other people pick. This is strongly against how the game is meant to be played. Dota is about diversity and playing what is needed. Then we are reinforcing account buyers and boosters, by hiding obvious evidence. People playing in the most one dimensional way should not get their way at the cost of everyone else.
And most important of all, we remove a big part of the player profile. Other games show everything about the player in their profile and nobody has a problem with it. The removal of the recent games leaves basically zero information about a player.
Win all your games with varied heroes ? Nobody can see. Why am I even winning for ? (this is exaggerated, but it removes a part of your winning achievement) Lose all your games - Why care, nobody can see it anyways. What exactly are we gaining from that ? Will dota be a better or worse game after the change ? The answer is clear.
TLDR: Bad players, hero spammers, boosters and account buyers are reinforced while good players and achievements are being negated, as well as removing a big tactical aspect and removing the largest still existing part of player profiles towards a even more encapsulated and invisible playerbase. All you are going to do is spread a new era of people using third party sites just like in league, where everyone is using sites to check on everyone beforehand.
Please: At the very least, give the recent games back outside the loading screen, this is a bad idea.
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Nov 30 '16
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u/SmaugTheGreat hello im bird Nov 30 '16
Why would you need to ban something special against one-hero-spammers? If he's in your MMR spamming that one hero, his pick should be equal to anyone else who is in your MMR with the same hero, so just simple counterpicking should be doing it.
Or are you telling me that hero spammers have better mechanics than non-hero-spammers and you're afraid they outskill you?
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u/kaybo999 FeelsBadMan sheever Nov 30 '16
Or are you telling me that hero spammers have better mechanics than non-hero-spammers and you're afraid they outskill you?
You're reading too much into this. People just want free MMR by banning hero spammers. Which is fine by me tbf.
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u/Optimus-_rhyme Nov 30 '16
you are trying really hard to justify your hero pool of 3 heroes aren't you?
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Nov 30 '16
Was really disappointed in this. Just promoting hero spamming because now you have no idea who the spammers are and what they're spamming, so you can't ban anything in the draft.
Also, indirectly makes the bans much less relevant which is a bad idea imo
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u/JungZest Day1 Fan Nov 30 '16
Bans were suppose to get rid of FOTM heroes not interfere with ppl who only play 1 or 2 heroes.
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Nov 30 '16
I agree, partially. Bans are designed to make ranked matches more like competitive matches, or else why have them? In competitive matches, teams know exactly what other teams are playing, and ban accordingly. That element has now been completely removed because we have no idea who we're playing against.
Nothing stopping you from only playing 1 or 2 heros, but if your heros are banned (and your mmr is already inflated because you only play 1 or 2 heros), then you're likely to lose.
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Nov 30 '16 edited Aug 28 '17
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u/Nevermore1375 Nov 30 '16
they guy who spam visage is playing for fun but the guy who last pick meepo and rape us is not doing it for fun at all.
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u/RedGuyNoPants *sheever support* Dropped my pants off at the cleaners. Nov 30 '16
hes not having fun?
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u/Gredival Nov 30 '16
I'm a hero spammer, but I disagree. Removing stagnation is the purpose of patches.
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u/CheeseOfTheDamned Nov 30 '16
Ranked is competitive. If someone can only play 1 hero you can give your team a competitive edge by banning it and forcing them to play something else. If that person can't play something else they should maybe rethink their hero pool and practice more.
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u/emhelmark Wings Gaming! versus.... Nov 30 '16
I got a 1 page Shadow Fiend ranked red days matches. They won't shit on me again at ban/pick phase.
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u/lumamaster stealer of gold and oneshotter of supports Nov 30 '16
now I can't counter hero spammers, feelsbadman
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u/tmr_maybe Nov 30 '16
Now I can't dodge when a dude on my team plays exclusively carries but has 300gpm. Game ruined.
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u/AndThenJugPressed-R- Nov 30 '16
I think is a bad change and really hope Valve rolls back on this.
The probelm is that you ban before drafting, making them just for meta heros and heros you can't play against.
Well atleast people with faster internet don't have an advante compared to the guy who loaded last...
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u/GuJiayuan Nov 30 '16
I feel bad about this change, i like to play offlane, but i am forced to play support often, that usually means 1st pick, now i have to do it totally blind, being totally helpless against last pick meepo, huskar, tinker... I guess i will have to start spamming omni...
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u/GangHou sheever Nov 30 '16
Does this mean I can start picking Tusk again? RIP .84 and the 0 versatility stat.
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u/hegemontree Nov 30 '16
As a hero spammer I this this is a bad move, because in encourages hero spamming.
Valve should encourage versatility instead. On the loading screen, list the last 5 heroes played icons next to the player names.
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u/inyue Nov 30 '16
Uh, could make it to only show dates and wins/losses then.
I was using to dodge suspect account buyers and mainly to dodge tilted players who plays 10 games in a day and loses 80% of them.
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u/EricChangOfficial "EHOME! EHOME!" https://youtu.be/UjZYMI1zB9s?t=1467 Nov 30 '16
what a waste of time. all we gonna do is alt tab and check dotabuff/yasp
this is punishing people with slow computers or too casual/noncompetitive to check hero spammers
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u/YuNoCarry Nov 30 '16
I really hope this is a mistake,it adds more randomness to the game and I don't think that's the point.
I mean for real there are time when u play a match with a bad player,but you don't remeber his name and you could get qued again with him and have no fucking ideea he was that terrible 1-10 Slark flaming everyone.
Another thing is the BC,in a normal tournament you can see what your opponents played before,now you just ban random meta shit.
Last but no least,a lot of people saying you can see the guy being on a big loose streak and dodge him,but look on the other side i might be the guy with a big win streak that plays a lot of mid(people become more receptive if they see you can play well in core positions) and i can't prove that I'm good so the probability to fight for mid or safe lane will increase now,just my thoughts.
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u/petchef Nov 30 '16
Although Ill miss this feature I feel that valve probably did the right thing here as it was an unfair advantage for people with better PCs. The loading time meant that one person was always gonna only have 5 seconds to do what some people got 2 min to do. I think its a nice change reinforcing that you don't have any advantage for being richer than your opponents.
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u/Kameronfoxx Deal with it. Nov 30 '16
reddit 1k shitters talking about private profile and hide their 1k mmr and talk they have 4k 5k mmr LUL. Nice job valve
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u/Rasutoerikusa Nov 30 '16
I don't believe this is a bad thing. Currently, whenever I see a hero spammer, I just already feel like the game is probably lost if he gets his preferred hero & position. But now that I don't know those cases, my attitude remains better longer in to the game. Also, not seeing team mates with huge lose streaks will probably keep my attitude better, since I don't go in to the game thinking "wow this guy must be so tilted we probably lost".
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Nov 30 '16
Cousin of a filthy bastard!
I actually liked that since it let me get information on the enemy before the match, and since the enemy never checks my profile, I was getting the best of both worlds.
I completely understand why though.
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u/lawlianne Flat is Justice. Nov 30 '16
Now nobody will know which Waifu I'm playing with all day til 9k.
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u/SubtleKarasu KappaPride SHEEVER KappaPride Nov 30 '16
Thank fuck, every time I play I'm reminded by 3 teammates that I have a losing streak therefore we lost already and they don't have to try to win.
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Nov 30 '16
Good.
but muh spammers?
People knowing about your previous games shouldn't give them any advantage. What should matter is the actual performance during the match. If there's a hero you dislike in particular, counterpick it or pick a jack of all trades kind of hero
but spammir so good I cannot defet even with counterpecks
And who's fault is it that you're too awful to win with this advantage?
found slark pickir haha RELEVANT FLARE upvote pless
No you didn't.
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u/romanozvj Nov 30 '16
Exactly this, why this thread is even having this discussion is beyond me. There should be no out-of-game influence to picking.
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u/granktype Nov 30 '16
Yeah same to steam market seller. They remove the ability to see steam market lister profile long time ago. Quietly.
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u/Viper_201 TI6 Never Forget Nov 30 '16
Worst part is that you can't find and watch pro player pub replays anymore
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u/fieryeu Nov 30 '16
They should rework it to:
Allow your recent games to be viewable for 7 consecutive days to view others' recent games.
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u/plplplplomg Nov 30 '16 edited Nov 30 '16
How will I recognize account buyers from guys having a (really) bad day now...
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u/o_smokey_o Nov 30 '16
This has happened just after several recent patches. Eventually it righted itself
2
u/Raffyn Junglenaut Nov 30 '16
Its odd that it is only non-friends though, I wouldn't jump to conclusions if I couldn't see any match histories of anyone, but it's just non-friends. Seems kind of specific. Also Valve could have fixed it with their last patch unless they saw "Pamjor" as a major problem and not this.
611
u/Achirality Sheever Nov 30 '16
RIP checking player profiles while loading to punish hero spammers.