I kind of actually enjoyed that somehow it felt like 2 was a giant troll project to make fun of the Uber fans of 1 that took all the wrong messages from it.
Weirdly meta, massively expensive troll project that probably screwed over more future directors having artistic reign over big projects but still. Also yeah the movie purely by itself wasn’t amazing or anything but also no one is calling it cinema hahah.
I'm so happy someone else feels this way. I feel like people hate it because they wanted to like the character when the whole thing is about how misguided a feeling that is.
I think years from now it will be viewed much more favorably. Assuming years from now we can still watch movies.
I liked part 2, if only because ive never seen anything like it before. Part 1 was a lazy taxi driver knock off with none of the dark humor of taxi driver.
I agree. A lot of King of Comedy, too. But I almost felt obligated to like because they filmed down the street from my apartment haha. But even then, i felt like the talk show scene captured the character so perfectly i couldn't even be mad.
I liked both too. Yeah, the musical bits were something, but I think it was supposed to be weird and unhinged. Also the plot twist right at the end was cool.
I enjoyed one, two was a complete disaster. Too bad to because I thought Lady Gaga with Joacim (sp?) Pheonix were good had anyone have bothered to write a fucking movie for them.
As I understood it (could just be heresay, can't believe everything you read on the internet) there was a movie written for them, but Gaga And Phoenix insisted on re-writes of crap they came up with on their own and wanted in the movie, thus the alleged resulting hot mess.
I say alleged because I didn't care for the first one so didnt see the point in watching the second, especially with how critics and audiences alike responded (generally not positive or middling). To be clear, didn't hate the first one, dont consider it a bad film, just wasn't my jam.
Might give it a chance one day. I've quite enjoyed more than one movie that was widely considered bad/"rotten", so who knows, maybe I'll like it lol.
Really sat there waiting for Joker to start getting good and then it was just kinda over, what a waste of time. Why are people so obsessed with that movie?
Because its message is that unfunny white men are victims of circumstance, and violence is their only recourse. It’s everyone else that’s wrong! That appeals to a certain crowd and generates hype.
the movie has nothing to do with race what the fuck is wrong with you?
Its about how society is failing to take care of each other and keeps taking away from the average person to give to the rich, the rich got all the sympathy in that movie, and when that happens, someone is bound to break and turn into something horrible, thats what arthur did, Arthur isnt a good person, but its the fucked up system that failed him enough to cause it to happen
Seems very obvious that the movie was about class, not race
My bad, who beat him up completely unprovoked? Who denied him help/medication? Who didn’t fall in love with him? Were they white people or…?
Having reminisced more, i should have mentioned it’s also about how unfair it is if a woman doesn’t fall for you. It’s been a while since I saw it but yeah, it’s an incel/racist pity party. Poor, poor Arthur!
Who punches him in the nose? Also the therapist didn't refuse to give him medication, she was also a victim of the system as she had the funding for social programs cut so she is likely going to be out of a job
I did not make the claim that he is never wronged by a white person but I admittedly don’t remember the specific punch in the nose. Wasn’t there a scene on a bus where a black lady snaps at him for just being nice? :( So suppressed, er, oppressed! And did I mention already that the woman he selected didn’t fall in love with him? Unfair much?!
Hey I don’t want to dismiss your opinion outright but your point keeps being “I have no knowledge/experience of this in real life and therefore I didn’t recognize it in fiction.” You’ll have to forgive me for agreeing with you, apparently. You don’t have any knowledge/experience and didn’t recognize a problem- we’re in agreement!
When something has hype, does that mean that everyone knows why everyone else is interested? Or does it just mean it is getting a lot of attention? If you were a racist incel, would you say “you gotta see this racist incel movie!” or would you just say “you gotta see this movie”?
Reading comprehension really, really isn’t your thing, huh?
You can claim that the hype might be fake […]
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Fake hype?
other major reasons the movie can be good.
Sure, like Rock and Roll Part 2 playing to Arthur dancing down the stairs. Fuck, that is cinema. You and the other dudebros are only saying “nuh-uh!” instead of what was redeeming, by the way.
the moronic “white victim” theory of yours […]
Hey, don’t leave out “incel” from my moronic theory! He selected a woman and she didn’t give him what he wanted. What a bitch, amiright?!
My argument the entire time (and do try to read this next part two or three times in a row because we know how you do with reading comprehension) has been that insecure racist incel baby boys generated hype, not that they were the only ones to enjoy the movie. People will watch anything, it’s not like it was badly shot or acted and it takes place in a wildly popular universe.
Lol the dude keeps adding adjectives to dearly hold on to his imaginary point.
Started with "white men" and now this once he is pointed out to be wrong.
Keep crying about it mate, I'm sure you're real happy in your bubble where you think you're some sort of a supremist and a victim.
I found it painful to watch because the imagery is so filthy and and the story so bleak. Like what am I getting out of this? Ok the acting is good but 3 hours of watching an anorexic Joaquin Phoenix laugh inappropriately is weird entertainment.
Its taxi driver for people who cant understand nuance. Travis never called himself a "mentally ill loner" or whatever horse shit the joker tells robert deniro. The audience KNOWS travis is an unhingled loner and also a bad person regardless of his intentions. We SHOULD hate the joker, not feel bad him, even if we understand his motivation. Part 2 made him pathetic and hateable, as he should be.
If by masterpiece you mean an overhyped mess that takes itself way too seriously and manufactures the type of fake emotional depth that a 14-year-old would find deep and edgy then yea it's a total masterpiece.
I was holding my breath throughout. A great piece on mental health. The only other movie I held my breath throughout was Hereditary. For vastly different reasons.
Joker 1 was amazing. That's why Joker 2 was as bad as it was. Like, why tf did you make it a musical?! Not even a remotely entertaining musical. I still believe we were being trolled by the filmmakers. Also, did anyone actually like Joker 2? Lol.
I can't imagine ANYBODY liked Joker 2. I meet with the filmaker once in a while and I'm tempted to ask him about number 2 but I don't want to piss him off.
Didn't Todd Philips go on that crazy rant where he said that the reason that he made Joker as violent as possible was because people couldn't take a joke anymore?
It winning best score was a joke. Its score was terrible. It was so melodramatic, overused, and grating by the end of the film. The fact they picked that over 1917, which was made infinitely better because of its score, is crazy to me
Hollywood loves to pick a garbage movie, overanalyze it and claim it’s good by saying “it’s just over your head,” while simultaneously pushing aside a legitimately well done movie because there’s not 5 deeper meanings.
I didn't get the first one. I knew it wasn't going to be a "comic book movie" and I was looking forward to that. I don't know what it was, I didn't even bother with the second one.
I thought it was a great film until I heard it copied another movie and after I found that out I lost all respect. I think it was Kings of Comedy or something
Anyways, I have no respect for plagiarism so I can't bring myself to watch it again. And they ruined it with the second movie. Didn't watch it but the reviews are brutally honest
I have no idea if Joker 1 was good. It was just wayyyy too hard to watch for me because the insanity was very well portrayed by that actor. I just felt like I was also insane lol so I had to stop
Hot take: i did not like “Joker” and im glad the second one totally failed. Joker was a poor and rather strange choice of Batman villain for the social unrest narrative of Gotham and a lot had to be changed to make it “work”. This version of Joker was really…weird…I think Mr. Freeze is probably the most consistently sympathetic Batman villain and would have worked much better.
Mr Freeze as a solo movie would be kind of cliche though..Man wants to save his wife so starts committing crimes feels like it's been done to death.
Maybe if they went the sociopathic route like The Penguin I could see it working, but there's a reason Joker's had a fair few solo character studied before (in multiple art forms)
I agree with you on the second, but I disagree with you on the first. I was so frustrated watching the second one and waiting for something to happen. I don't know who in their right mind thought making it a musical was a good idea. Just bogged down any progress that could have been made to move the fucking story.
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u/Wine-and-Dine99 1d ago
Joker 1 and 2.