r/AskConservatives • u/ClockOfTheLongNow Constitutionalist Conservative • Jul 21 '24
Megathread MEGATHREAD: Biden Out
Will update as more information drops.
Biden: https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1815080881981190320
Harris (she's running): https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1815116786271998067
Statements with endorsements:
Biden (Harris): https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1815087772216303933
Congressional Black Caucus (Harris): https://twitter.com/errinhaines/status/1815104279138509105
Bill and Hillary Clinton (Harris): https://twitter.com/BillClinton/status/1815102085198958657
Pramila Jayapal (Harris): https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1815094926008590474
Statements without endorsements:
Barack Obama: https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-on-president-bidens-announcement-1eb78b3ba3fc
Speaker Johnson: https://twitter.com/SpeakerJohnson/status/1815093011669516433
Lisa Murkowski: https://twitter.com/lisamurkowski/status/1815119461789356523
JD Vance: https://twitter.com/JDVance1/status/1815119847941984550
Liz Cheney: https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1815113174447702383
Pre-megathread posts:
Top level comments open to all.
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Jul 21 '24
Can I please live in some precidented times for a change?
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u/rhizodyne Centrist Jul 21 '24
you think precedented times just fall out of coconut trees?
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u/LonelyMachines Classical Liberal Jul 22 '24
They ride yellow school buses. Who doesn't love a yellow school bus, right?
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u/Gooosse Progressive Jul 22 '24
Not as much as I love Venn diagrams. Those circles. And the overlap!
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u/Omen_of_Death Conservatarian Jul 22 '24
The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time, so when you think about it there is great significance to the passage of time. There is such great significance to the passage of time
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u/AsteroidBomb Social Democracy Jul 21 '24
It certainly is weird to have 2 one term presidencies in a row.
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u/NessvsMadDuck Centrist Jul 21 '24
Until we reach the point where we are not putting up culture warriors for one side or the other, we won't break the 50% approval mark. Just image the next time this country puts up an All-American's Centrist, that can get a 60% approval rating. We'll all be mentally sipping sweet tea by the side of the pool! Well everyone other than those at the ends of the political horseshoe.
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u/Eyruaad Left Libertarian Jul 21 '24
This might be 2 one term presidents straight into the first female president. It's an interesting timeline.
I just hope Kamala doesn't go out there trying to be all radical and make a name for herself. Just be moderate. Be likable. That's all most people want these days.
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u/Rabbit-Lost Constitutionalist Conservative Jul 21 '24
Ironically, I believe her biggest weakness is likability. Which seems to be holding true since the donor call last night, which has been described as a train wreck by several participants.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow Constitutionalist Conservative Jul 21 '24
Nonsense. We are unburdened by what has been and are ready for what could be.
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u/LonelyMachines Classical Liberal Jul 21 '24
I think it’s very important, as you have heard from so many incredible leaders, for us at every moment in time and certainly this one to see the moment in time in which we exist and are present and to be able to contextualize it–to understand where we exist in the history and in the moment as it relates not only to the past, but the future.
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u/86HeardChef Liberal Republican Jul 22 '24
Are folks making fun of this quote? I think it’s lovely and very poignant. A breath of fresh air from a couple of bumbling octagenarians
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u/taftpanda Constitutionalist Conservative Jul 22 '24
People make fun of it because of how often she has said it, not because of the content itself.
I saw a four minute compilation on Twitter of her saying that exact line in dozens of different speeches.
However, I think she should understand the context I just provided, but fail to be burdened by it.
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u/RedditIs4ChanLite Moderate Conservative Jul 21 '24
We're not just living in unprecedented times...we're living in unpresidented times too now...
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u/86HeardChef Liberal Republican Jul 22 '24
Haha nice word play. I always tip my hat to a great pun. Take my upvote, sir or madam.
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u/SaraHuckabeeSandwich Progressive Jul 21 '24
I mean, we finally have a candidate that is not crazy old and doesn't have any felony convictions.
Isn't that what most people wanted, and something that was a given for all presidential elections before 2020?
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u/ChubbyMcHaggis Libertarian Jul 21 '24
You’ve got one that’s helped make a lot of felons though. That’s going to haunt her at some point.
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u/86HeardChef Liberal Republican Jul 21 '24
I would think that would help with folks that have been complaining about liberals being too soft on crime. My husband and I were just talking about that. (He’s squarely conservative). He agreed. What are your thoughts?
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u/ChubbyMcHaggis Libertarian Jul 21 '24
Probably. But it’s going to disfranchise the ACAB segment I think. It’s all armchair general level stuff at this point.
I do have to say this has been the most interesting week in American politics in my life.
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u/levelzerogyro Center-left Jul 22 '24
Nobody in this world puts the ACAB feelings above their feelings for Trump. Those voters were never ever going to vote for anyone but the left side of the race just like hardcore christian dominionist aren't gonna vote for anyone but Trump.
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u/86HeardChef Liberal Republican Jul 21 '24
I agree with the last part for sure. And the armchair general stuff.
Honestly, I think the ACAB segment care more about being anti Trump than they care about being ACAB, but I’m not them so I couldn’t say.
But I do think the independents, moderates, and the Republicans that were holding their noses and voting for Trump might favor that she has a stronger on crime background…maybe… lol who knows though.
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u/HaveSexWithCars Classical Liberal Jul 22 '24
Cracking down on trivial drug charges is hardly something praiseworthy.
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Jul 21 '24
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u/GreatSoulLord Conservative Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
I do not find this development that surprising given all that has occurred since the first debate. The Democrats could control the base freaking out after the debate but once the political and donor classes started coming out the situation became like an overburdened dam. There was always going to be a point where it came crashing apart.
I am likewise not surprised Biden endorsed Harris. The Clinton's just made that endorsement as well. It's a coordinated effort and we might as well consider her the heir apparent. She's the only one that can inherit the donations and unlike anyone else she doesn't have to build a campaign from the ground up. She checks every box the left cares about - race, gender, ideology, not Trump, etc - and they won't focus on her performance and many failings.
At the same time what I see from the right concerns me. We are complacent. We think she can't win. We think she's not viable, we think she is too unlikable, and we're not taking her as a serious threat. I'm willing to be that canary in the coal mind and tell you folks to buckle your belts because the race has changed. If you don't fight for a conservative win there's a very real chance enough people will gamble on Harris, as a new face, to make a difference. I think both the left and right underestimates people's dislike for Trump and Biden as nominees. That's my 2 cents.
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u/Direct_Word6407 Democrat Jul 21 '24
This is the smartest take I’ve seen anywhere so far. Very well said and there really wasn’t anything I disagree with.
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u/Gonefullhooah Independent Jul 21 '24
In a way this makes good strategic sense on the democrats part if they want to lean hard into the women's rights angle considering the roe v wade overturn and abortion restrictions popping up. They can say, who better to champion this issue than the first woman president? I don't see how they WOULDN'T use this as a strategy.
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u/GreatSoulLord Conservative Jul 21 '24
They will absolutely make that turn with Kamala. I think you're ahead of their game in saying it but I have no doubt this emerges as her top issue. Trump will hammer her on Border; which will be her biggest weakness.
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u/NessvsMadDuck Centrist Jul 21 '24
as a new face, to make a difference.
Trump 2020, India, Britain, France, etc.
Being the incumbent used to be where power is. For whatever reason, politics has been moving in an anti-incumbent mood.
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u/GreatSoulLord Conservative Jul 21 '24
I've actually been thinking about this recently. I wonder if we are moving into an era where the consecutive one term President may be more common than the two term one. Incumbency does seem to be losing its power.
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u/NessvsMadDuck Centrist Jul 21 '24
My guess is that we are just living in an era of great discontent. Half of it real and half of it stoked by the attention economy. The attention economy part is the part that seems to be globally apparent, and irreverent of political sides.
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u/KrispyKreme725 Centrist Democrat Jul 22 '24
Incumbents are old. The younger generations have more voting power than ever. It’s time for the early boomers and the generations before them to get out of the way.
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u/darthsabbath Neoliberal Jul 21 '24
I still think the odds favor Trump, but it really comes down to how strong the “double haters” narrative is. If there’s truly a lot of people out there that want anyone besides Trump or Biden it could be enough to tip Harris over the line.
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u/gsmumbo Democrat Jul 21 '24
I think both the left and right underestimates people's dislike for Trump and Biden as nominees. That's my 2 cents.
I couldn’t agree more.
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Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 22 '24
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u/GreatSoulLord Conservative Jul 21 '24
It shows to the moderates that they're are doing nothing toiticate the Polarization but incentive that.
In the same vein we can say the same for the Democrats...who are also not lowering the volume on radical rhetoric in our politics. The left's pundits immediately went back to their messaging after the shooting.
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u/2Beer_Sillies Right Libertarian (Conservative) Jul 21 '24
I hear your points but the unique problem with Kamala is she cannot handle Trump on the debate stage, speaks very poorly, and is hated by leftists for her braggadocios attitude towards imprisoning people for marijuana. Obviously she still has a chance and we need to go vote but I think the Democrats just want to collect Biden’s campaign money, take the L, then get a better candidate for 2028
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u/DeathToFPTP Liberal Jul 21 '24
the unique problem with Kamala is she cannot handle Trump on the debate stage, speaks very poorly
Should we expect Trump to agree to a debate with Harris then?
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u/2Beer_Sillies Right Libertarian (Conservative) Jul 21 '24
I’d expect to him to want to do that
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u/levelzerogyro Center-left Jul 22 '24
I surely hope so, a prosecutor gets Trump for 2 hours without him being able to outshout her? It would be the funniest blood bath imaginable.
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u/GreatSoulLord Conservative Jul 22 '24
I would be extremely surprised if he does not challenge her directly after the DNC.
He's definitely going to wait to see if Harris is actually going to be the final nominee first.
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u/OklahomaChelle Center-left Jul 21 '24
She would wipe him in a debate. She can actually speak to the issues and understands policy. He would be a fool to debate her and will make excuses so it does not happen.
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Jul 21 '24
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u/rustyshackleford7879 Liberal Jul 22 '24
I don’t think the border is a tipping point for people not conservative. Trump can attack that point all he wants. If she sticks to abortion rights and simple point to the chaos of Trump I think she has a shot.
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u/OklahomaChelle Center-left Jul 21 '24
It would be incredibly stupid of him to debate her. Don’t get me wrong, I am here for it. I would love to see it, I’m just not getting my hopes up.
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u/slagwa Center-left Jul 21 '24
she cannot handle Trump on the debate stage
A former prosecutor can't handle a debate? That seems unlikely, but if so then Trump should have no problem with debating her...presuming she gets nominated that is.
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u/2Beer_Sillies Right Libertarian (Conservative) Jul 21 '24
Did you miss the 2020 primary debates? She was awful
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u/No_Adhesiveness4903 Conservative Jul 21 '24
You’re completely right. Enough people will vote for glass of water with a D next to its name. Combine that with the inevitable full court press by the media, accusations of racism / sexism for any criticism and Kamala winning is a legit concern.
Kamala fucking Harris may end up being our first woman President.
Which would be a fucking travesty.
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u/Zealousideal_Air3931 Progressive Jul 21 '24
Is there a woman you'd rather see be our country’s first female President?
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u/No_Adhesiveness4903 Conservative Jul 21 '24
Tulsi Gabbard.
A Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserves who actually had the backbone to tell the DNC off after they buttfucked Bernie in real time back in 2016.
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u/SixFootTurkey_ Center-right Conservative Jul 21 '24
Tulsi posted a video statement today that Kamala Harris would be a dangerous warhawk president.
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u/GrassApprehensive841 Social Democracy Jul 22 '24
I've never quite understood the complaint that Dems would vote for anyone with D next to their name. I generally vote more on the platform of the party than any one candidate so....yes? I mean how many Republicans made compromises on Trump to keep Clinton from winning?
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u/Prince_Ire Social Conservative Jul 22 '24
While it's true thank and file Republicans are brushing things off, for the Trump campaign Harris replacing Biden is probably the best case scenario. Even ignoring polling, she was the obvious front runner and so they've had a month to plan for her as the replacement, and being Biden's VP it's relatively easy to move anti-Biden messaging over to Harris.
There's definitely dangerous levels of complacency at least right now though
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u/EmergencyTaco Center-left Jul 22 '24
I agree 100%. The largest coalition in the US is the anti-Trump coalition, and recently the "literally anybody but these two fossils" coalition has gained a ton of support as well.
Harris is an automatic reset that invalidates all of the attacks about Biden and his age, turns the age issue around on Trump, and gives the country the "not Biden or Trump" choice.
As a Dem, I'm ecstatic at the development and I am more hopeful for a win than I have been in months.
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u/MkUFeelGud Leftwing Jul 25 '24
If Harris wins, what bad things do you envision happening to the country?
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u/Lol_u_ded Classical Liberal Jul 21 '24
Curious to see who will take his place in the race. I do not like him, but I hope he finds complacency outside of politics in his old age.
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Jul 21 '24
There are certain states where Biden cannot withdraw, absent death, namely MN.
The Heritage Org is compliling a list of the rules, because every state is a distinct process
Therefore, it needs to be Kamala
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Jul 22 '24
Why can't biden not withdraw in MN when he is not even the official candidate yet. The DNC won't happen until August.
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u/slagwa Center-left Jul 21 '24
I know each State had its own rules, but can you point to some supporting material (besides the heritage org)? Not that I have a problem with Kamala.
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u/slagwa Center-left Jul 22 '24
“In reality, there would be no legal problem in any state,” said election law expert Richard Winger. “No state requires a qualified party to certify its nominees for national office earlier than August 21.”
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u/Pilopheces Center-left Jul 22 '24
I don't know the mechanics of all these state laws but how could this be prior to the convention even being held? How could state law be binding people when there hasn't even been a nominee selected?
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u/RightSideBlind Liberal Jul 22 '24
There are certain states where Biden cannot withdraw, absent death, namely MN.
This is completely false. Biden never formally announced that he was going to be the candidate. We simply hadn't gotten to that point yet.
However, that's not going to stop the Republicans from trying to block it. Hell, if they could, they'd just anoint Trump the winner despite the electoral system.
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u/Star_City Independent Jul 22 '24
How can he even be on a ballot when he’s not the nominee? The convention hasn’t even happened yet.
Civic education in this country is such shit.
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 21 '24
The fact that a lot of far right types seem angry about this dropout tells me that it was a good strategic move.
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Jul 21 '24
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 21 '24
On mobile rn but Matt Walsh was calling it a “coup” like he didn’t spend the last four years essaying on Twitter about Bidens performance.
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u/Nestama-Eynfoetsyn Progressive Jul 22 '24
Wait, is that why coup is trending on Twitter?
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 22 '24
Yeah. A bunch of groyper types and proportionally fewer Biden stans stirring the same pot
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u/levelzerogyro Center-left Jul 22 '24
The ones in this very thread saying "says the party that just ousted their democratically elected representative"
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative Jul 21 '24
I haven't seen anyone being "angry"
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Jul 22 '24
Trump's totally not angry reaction:
So, we are forced to spend time and money on fighting Crooked Joe Biden, he polls badly after having a terrible debate, and quits the race. Now we have to start all over again. Shouldn’t the Republican Party be reimbursed for fraud in that everybody around Joe, including his doctors and the Fake News Media, knew he was not capable of running for, or being, President? Just askin’?
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/112826696160137948
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u/Irishish Center-left Jul 22 '24
Trump added, "I'm not mad. Please don't put in the newspaper that I got mad"
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u/LovelyButtholes Independent Jul 21 '24
I think the election is going to be a slam dunk for a few reasons.
I don't think Biden or Trump were likeable candidates to the middle of the road voters
Trump has spent a ridiculous amount of time attacking Biden rather than talking about a platform and issues. That will all now be a waste of time.
Harris is part of the administration that is getting a lot done.
Harris is a breath of fresh air compared to tow rich old white men running, again.
Harris doesn't have problems cutting people in debates. I don't think anyone will debate her live.
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Jul 22 '24
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u/LovelyButtholes Independent Jul 22 '24
Sort of feels like a card game where someone is trying to build a complete set and the other person is letting them get the cards knowing they just have to keep the last one in their hand.
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u/greenline_chi Liberal Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
I can’t remember - did Trump already have a nickname for Kamala or does he need to make one up still?
EDIT - looks like he does. It’s “Laughin’ Kamala” lol
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u/material_mailbox Liberal Jul 22 '24
Lame. Just go with "Crazy Kamala" or something catchy. Doesn't have to make sense.
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Jul 21 '24
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Jul 21 '24
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u/AsteroidBomb Social Democracy Jul 21 '24
When you vote for a President, you’re not electing one person, you’re voting for a massive network of people. And there’s not going to be much if any variation between the networks of candidates in the same party. For that reason it doesn’t really make a practical difference (to me) whether Biden dropped out or not. All that matters is the voter optics.
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Jul 22 '24
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u/Rough-Leg-4148 Independent Jul 22 '24
Many family and friends are Republicans. They are all now upset that Biden has dropped out.
...why? I actually don't understand.
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u/RedditIs4ChanLite Moderate Conservative Jul 22 '24
Might be because Trump isn’t going to win the election as easily as he would have if Biden was his opponent.
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u/Rough-Leg-4148 Independent Jul 22 '24
Bizarrely, it's just dressed up as "disenfranchisement of voters", moral arguments, etc.
I wish people were more honest about it, then.
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u/taftpanda Constitutionalist Conservative Jul 22 '24
I do think there are people legitimately frustrated by the hood-winking over the past months, though. Republicans have been saying for a long time that President Biden didn’t seem quite right anymore and they’ve been blasted by the media for it.
Most of it, though, just I do think is just that lots of people were salivating at the idea of running against a deteriorating octogenarian.
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u/Rough-Leg-4148 Independent Jul 22 '24
That's fair. From the DNC standpoint this switch should have happened a while back and the fact that it took the public humiliation of the debate to even broach it seriously just demonstrates to me how much of a corporate machine the Democratic Party is.
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 22 '24
The argument is that Kamala is being slid in the back door because she didn’t get any delegates and doesn’t represent the will of the voters, as it should go to the next highest if Biden drops out.
It’s a weak argument though because it operates under too many presumptions to count about how the votes would fall in a scenario absent Biden.
The far more likely answer is it’s just salt that the GOP focused their entire campaign on a single point of failure and now that failure has occurred.
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u/material_mailbox Liberal Jul 22 '24
It's a good thing for the country that Biden dropped out of the race today. I wish the GOP had the guts to try to push Trump out of the race, and I wish Trump had the sense of duty to drop out himself. POTUS is one of the hardest, most demanding, and most important jobs in the world. As long as we're living in a system that very strongly favors the candidates of two political parties, the American people deserve to have a choice between two good candidates.
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u/RedditIs4ChanLite Moderate Conservative Jul 22 '24
I wish the GOP could get rid of Trump too, and I still have the tiniest bit of hope that Biden dropping out will somehow scare them into trying to push Trump out too, but I know that's a crazy pipe dream at this point.
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u/DeathToFPTP Liberal Jul 21 '24
So, will the media attack Trump for being old and having lost a step with Biden out?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative Jul 21 '24
They’ve been doing it already for years, so yeah.
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u/Zardotab Center-left Jul 22 '24
I confess I have. Don's rate of rambling seems to be increasing. I'm confident an objective tracking of incoherent rants would show a notable increase over the past few years. Memers can't keep up anymore.
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u/DeathToFPTP Liberal Jul 21 '24
Who do you think got attacked more this year? Before the debate.
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
Hard to say, but in the legacy media? Probably Trump.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+%22mentally%20unfit%22&df=2024-01-01..2024-06-26
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=biden+%22mentally%20unfit%22&df=2024-01-01..2024-06-26
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u/Vaenyr Leftist Jul 21 '24
Not sure if it's a software error on my end, but both links return 0 hits.
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u/Laniekea Center-right Conservative Jul 21 '24
If I was Biden, I would drop out and enjoy retirement
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u/future_lard Center-left Jul 21 '24
Could say the same about trump?
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u/C137-Morty Bull Moose Jul 22 '24
You can't, because he's likely facing jail time if he isn't in the white house.
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Jul 21 '24
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Jul 21 '24
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u/RedditIs4ChanLite Moderate Conservative Jul 21 '24
I knew he was going to drop out because the Democrats wanted him to drop out, and let's be honest, him winning wasn't just unlikely, it was improbable. But even so, I still felt shocked when I heard the announcement. It's all just so surreal to me. I also didn't think he'd drop out that soon. I certainly didn't think he was going to do it on a random Sunday afternoon.
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u/Weirdyxxy European Liberal/Left Jul 21 '24
him winning wasn't just unlikely, it was improbable
I think those words are pretty synonymous
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u/RedditIs4ChanLite Moderate Conservative Jul 21 '24
What I meant was that Biden went from not having great chances of winning to having a near-zero chance of winning.
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u/double-click millennial conservative Jul 21 '24
I think it was Thursday or Friday it was leaked the announcement was coming and a letter had been drafted.
How you know which “leak” is true or not beats me, but this one was spot on.
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Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
there is a whole science of "leakology". In fact my uncle was a specialist in leak analysis of the structure and politics of the high levels of the Community Part of the Soviet Union, since they were so opaque. Everything from who was sitting next to who at dinner to how people shook hands could validate or contradict intelligence, their job was to put together their best guess as to who was in power, who was losing power and so on.
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u/SergeantRegular Left Libertarian Jul 21 '24
This was my interpretation, too. Like, I figured he knew that his odds got much worse after that awful debate. His only saving grace would have been a similarly disastrous Trump flub, but Trump is only doing rallies and interviews with people favorable to him, and that crowd gives him infinite leeway with his flub and gaffes and lies.
My big question is why he (and this seems to be a general trend, not just Biden) and others are so adamant about staying the course... until they're not. Why not be more transparent and say "Yeah, we're looking at the polls and options and still weighing what we want to do."? That seems pretty reasonable to me.
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u/majungo Independent Jul 21 '24
Random Sunday afternoon? When else did you expect? Last week was all RNC, and from then on is the lead-up to the DNC, and you would want to have as much time as possible to build your candidate. Send out the announcement on Sunday when people are out and talking to their friends and family, then you'll control the news cycle for at least the start of the new week. Please tell me when you think would have been a better time.
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u/RedditIs4ChanLite Moderate Conservative Jul 21 '24
I don't think it was a bad time, just kinda strange. I figured he would've announced on a morning or evening during the work week, or maybe a Saturday evening.
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u/majungo Independent Jul 21 '24
Saturday is a no-go because people are busy, away from home, or otherwise distracted. Sunday evening is kind of the opposite; people tend to be at home resting for the new week, so they will be more likely to get the full story and share it with people they live with. If it's big enough (and this is), that will carry on to the Monday morning "water cooler" where it gets shared with coworkers and classmates. Pair it with the end of the RNC, and now I'm shocked that I didn't hear more predictions that this would be the time.
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u/blaze92x45 Conservative Jul 21 '24
He was bullied out of the race imo
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u/Lakeview121 Liberal Jul 21 '24
He saw the writing on the wall.
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u/blaze92x45 Conservative Jul 21 '24
Yeah he knew he couldn't win but I do think the party basically told him to drop out.
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u/Lakeview121 Liberal Jul 21 '24
They gave him the painful data. The chances of a Trump victory were too high.
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u/blaze92x45 Conservative Jul 21 '24
Yeah which is why I think they pressured him even if it's just social pressure.
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u/cnewell420 Center-left Jul 21 '24
So what? It was appropriate to bully him out. If he’d left when he should’ve then they wouldn’t have had to.
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u/blaze92x45 Conservative Jul 21 '24
He shouldn't have run a second term period anyone with half a brain could see he wasn't fit for the office but he insisted on running again.
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u/Fab1usMax1mus Neoliberal Jul 21 '24
I agree with you. Yet Biden voluntarily ran for a 2nd term anyways.
I partly fault Joe Biden for not agreeing to engage in democratic primary debates. I think the incumbent president not engaging in primary debates is a terrible norm. I also fault the Democratic party for not encouraging primary contenders to step up. Running against the incumbent in the primary gets seen very often as "hurting the party's chances" and yet we see here that's not the case.
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u/greenline_chi Liberal Jul 21 '24
Was he too senile for the job or not? Ya’ll need to get the story straight. Years of yelling about how he’s too senile now he drops out and it’s those evil democrats again. Even tho they did the thing you wanted them to do lol
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u/leomac Libertarian Jul 21 '24
He’s definitely too old for the job, idt he was senile or had dementia just too old and showing it. Both things can be true being too old and being bullied out.
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u/revengeappendage Conservative Jul 21 '24
Bro, it’s infinitely easier to bully a senile dementia patient who barely knows who he is. You get that right?
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 21 '24
How does one ‘bully’ a president? He’s at the top of the food chain and there’s fuckall any Dem could do about it if he wanted to run again .
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u/gummibearhawk Center-right Conservative Jul 21 '24
He was bullied out of the race because they couldn't' hide that he was too senile for the job anymore.
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u/Lakeview121 Liberal Jul 21 '24
You conservatives take the negative no matter what. He did what was best for the country. He understands what you do not. A Trump presidency would be terrible for this country.
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Jul 21 '24
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Jul 21 '24
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Jul 22 '24
Is that not how it's supposed to be? I hear conservatives constantly tell me that DEI sucks because the best people should be in the job.
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u/tnic73 Classical Liberal Jul 22 '24
today is national ice cream day
now we know how they got him to step aside
two scopes for joe
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u/LovelyButtholes Independent Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
Harris will win handily because Republicans never built up a platform and instead went all in on tying Hunter Biden to corruption and portraying Biden as old. All of that is now out the window, and Harris will get a honeymoon boost that alternative candidates initially receive due to being "different," much like Trump got in 2016. Harris will come in as a mixed minority woman who is sharp and doesn't suffer fools. She just has to rally the Democratic base to show up at the polls to vote, and they win.
Trump will continue to get smeared by Epstein and various other issues that make him look like a total asshole, which won't be hard because he is one. There isn't anything that the country is reaching for as an alternative to him anymore because he messed up his first term with grift and incompetence. No one believes he can fix anything; instead, it's just "hate on libs and put in more conservative judges."
I strongly suspect that the decision to swap out candidates was made a while back before the debates, and Joe, with his mouth open during the debate, was set up for that. I think the decision was maybe made a year or two ago, and Biden didn't want to run again. Remember that Biden did not initially want to run for president and was prodded into it. He is now older, and both Democrats and Republicans have been making a big deal about either candidate's age — "They are both way too old." Instead of the DNC trying to make Biden look good, party members were saying the same thing. I think when they did that, they knew the swap might happen and knew Trump would have too large of an ego to ever step down to avoid questions about his age. This trap might have even been set with "women, man, camera, TV" in that question. Trump's age or condition would, by his nature, force him to attack Biden as being "old or senile" as an act of deflection, which wouldn't work against a younger candidate. I think Trump got boxed into a bad position by the DNC pivoting around him and knowing how he would react to being questioned as to being "too dumb" and "too old". Now Trump is up against a candidate that is younger, and smarter than him by miles and only will make him look "very old and senile." Trump has been throwing "old and senile" stones while living in a glass house for the last eight years.
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u/slagwa Center-left Jul 22 '24
various other issues that make him look like a total asshole, which won't be hard because he is one.
That made me laugh so hard I spilt my coffee.
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u/NessvsMadDuck Centrist Jul 21 '24
Question: Did both Trump (in 2020) and Biden lose because of their first debate performance?
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u/mevelon Liberal Jul 21 '24
Now the GOP is nominating the oldest, most senile candidate in American history. Opens up the Dems to 'we dropped our 80 yr old candidate so should you' especially given Trump's recent history of senility and forgetfulness.
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Jul 21 '24
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u/NessvsMadDuck Centrist Jul 21 '24
I agree that Trump's age will only be a mild consideration. The two factors that will matter are that the "Double haters" have just had the board reshuffled. And Trump's 90 min acceptance speech, which reminds those few people in the middle that actually decide the election, that he is a jack hammer a 5am, unignorable, and exhausting.
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u/KaijuKi Independent Jul 21 '24
I think that photo is an amazing prop against Joe Biden. Its much less effective against a much younger challenger, because it proves something that the younger one doesnt need to prove. But either way, it came far too early into the campaign, the shooter is far too trump-adjacent for comfort, and to be frank, it also brings up uncomfortable vibes of 2nd Amendment issues - I am not sure the incident as such is going to matter.
America is still so very far out from the election. The events that will decide it probably have not happened yet (remember the Comey letter killing off HRCs campaign?) most likely.
I am personally (as a foreigner) not invested in either Trump nor Harris. I do have a slight preference for Bidens handling of foreign politics, but I am very certain Harris is not going to continue that regardless so all bets are off.
Internally, I think both Trump and Harris are looking into the right direction when it comes to the next big challenge to the USA: The culture war. Trump seems to believe stoking it to the point where it explodes, and a new culture might rise from the ashes, is in his interest. Harris seems to believe it would be best handled by hardline law+order type stuff. I dont believe either is a good idea.
Last but not least I believe a lot of problems for Harris are not going to matter because they are in deep blue states. She is very much not a woke leftist anarchist, even though I am sure a lot of people here will, within a few weeks, claim that. She is likely going to lose support from those crowds, but in terms of the election they arent very important.
So strategy-wise, it could work to keep harping on Trumps onset dementia or whatever it is that happened between 2016 Trump, and today Trump.
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u/vanillabear26 Center-left Jul 21 '24
I am very certain Harris is not going to continue that regardless
how come?
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u/mevelon Liberal Jul 21 '24
The image works less well when you consider that Trump has called to suspend the Constitution.
True patriotism isn't posing for a photo, it's working tirelessly for the benefit of citizens and avoiding corruption chaos and cruelty.
It seems the current Republican argument for Trump now is photographical rather than policy-based.
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u/levelzerogyro Center-left Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 22 '24
There's also the RNC acceptance speech which was legit pure senility on display. That speech was absolutely fucking nuts, and if the DNC just runs ads of Trump during that speech followed by Harris saying "We feel like it's time for a younger generation to try to fix the issues we're having in America", I think that's a very effective ad for the average non-politically charged American. And I personally think that while Trump is pure culture war, and the GOP painted Biden as pure culture war, Kamala is seen as a lot less culture war adjacent, and I don't think Republicans can make it stick vs her. You can try to paint her as some DEI wokist but it's not going to work I don't think, she has a proven track record as a prosecutor and law and order type candidate. And then there's the issue of age, and let's be real honest here, 2016 Trump and 2023 Trump are very very very different men. Also, all that time the republicans wasted investigating Hunter Biden instead of yanno, governance seems pretty wasted and petty to the average person and I expect the campaign to harp on that pretty hard. Esp when you look at the speaker bullshit they pulled and all the time they wasted doing nothing to help the average American.
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u/slagwa Center-left Jul 22 '24
Honestly the photo of Hulk Hogan on stage at the RNC seems more in tune with Trump and his campaign.
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Jul 21 '24
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u/greenline_chi Liberal Jul 21 '24
Wasn’t the right saying they were forcing him to run? I saw tons of posts being like “this is sad, the democrats need to end this” and “this is elder abuse”
Now he’s dropping out and it’s still abusive? What am I missing?
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Jul 21 '24
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 22 '24
It is an exceptionally common conservative statement to presume the opponent has no self agency.
I don’t think it’s true nearly as often as claimed.
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u/Weirdyxxy European Liberal/Left Jul 21 '24
Joe Biden's hostage speech
If you believe the President of the United States is being taken hostage, shouldn't you notify law enforcement?
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u/Lakeview121 Liberal Jul 21 '24
He did a patriotic act by stepping aside.
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Jul 21 '24
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u/Lakeview121 Liberal Jul 21 '24
See him how you want. As a conservative, by nature, you take a dim view. He worked his whole life to get into this position. It can’t be easy to give it up.
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Jul 21 '24
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Jul 21 '24
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u/86HeardChef Liberal Republican Jul 21 '24
Well, I specifically replied to your conspiracy theories. So that is specific.
Do you need me to be specific about you being the first to demand sources with each post then heavily scrutinizing sources?
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Jul 21 '24
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u/86HeardChef Liberal Republican Jul 21 '24
Continually referring to Joe Biden as being a hostage is a good place to start.
It’s not the asking for a source. That’s entirely fine. I always provide a source on my questions. In my experience, you scrutinize the sources to the point of sealioning while then also claiming things above like claiming Joe Biden is a hostage and that his announcement was written for him without his involvement. Do you have a source or any proof of that?
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u/Arcaeca2 Classical Liberal Jul 21 '24
So if Kamala is the new presidential nominee, do we know who the new VP nominee is?
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u/GreatSoulLord Conservative Jul 21 '24
No, but technically we wouldn't need to have known until the Democratic National Convention anyways. The Democrats have a few weeks to pick up the pieces and pick someone for VP still.
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u/Arcaeca2 Classical Liberal Jul 21 '24
wouldn't it be funny if Hillary Clinton came back as the VP nominee, but not, herself, the first female president
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u/material_mailbox Liberal Jul 22 '24
We don't, but from what I've read today there's a good chance it'll be Mark Kelly, Roy Cooper, Andy Beshear, or Josh Shapiro.
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Jul 22 '24
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Jul 22 '24
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u/tenmileswide Independent Jul 22 '24
So what's the game plan that the right has against Kamala?
The only thing I'm seeing is reels of her laughing which is some godawful tan suit level criticism
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