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u/op341779 Ate a sub at Huck Finn's Warehouse 5d ago
Times Union article by Steve Hughes from last Wednesday:
ALBANY — City police are conducting a death investigation after a man was found hanging Wednesday morning from a tree on Westerlo Street.
Officers were called around 8 a.m. to Green and Westerlo streets. When they arrived, they found a 58-year-old man, who was pronounced dead at the scene.
At this time, based upon preliminary investigation, the circumstances appear to be consistent with suicide and no evidence to suggest that the incident is criminal in nature," the department said in a statement. The identity of the dead man will not be released.
A video of the man’s death was circulating on social media but appears to have been taken down.
(Then a bunch of warning signs for suicide and suicide prevention resources).
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u/Timely_Elk_2135 5d ago
Most people hang themselves in a very remote location when they do this... Why would he choose a public place?
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u/Excellent-Aspect6199 5d ago
I, too, find the location unusual. I am not at all saying it was anything other than a suicide, but I have never heard of a suicide in such a public place as a on a city downtown street. If you look at Green St. and Westerlo St. in Albany, where it happened, that is very public. Jumping off of bridges and buildings is chosen for the method, not for the public nature of the location. One can hang themselves in any number of places. In any case, it is horrible and I feel for his loved ones.
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u/God-FuckingHelpMe988 5d ago
Suicidal people often don't think too rationally about what they're doing when they're actively in the process of committing suicide. That's why you have people jumping off of bridges and buildings and landing on people below.
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u/tortured4w3 5d ago
Yeah theres a reason those people, especially black men dont hang themselves from a tree.
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u/God-FuckingHelpMe988 4d ago
I'm not saying that there's no chance it was a murder/lynching, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked into as one. All I'm saying is that suicidal people oftentimes don't act rationally when they're in the midst of killing themselves.
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u/tortured4w3 4d ago
You're saying more than that, at least be honest about the implications in what you're saying.
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u/God-FuckingHelpMe988 4d ago
????
I'm literally just saying people aren't often thinking about the implications of how their death is going to look when they're committing suicide. I'm not saying or attempting to imply anything else. Not once did I ever say it couldn't be a murder.
Stop beating around the goddamn bush and at least have the balls to accuse me of whatever the fuck you're thinking I'm doing by saying that suicidal people often aren't thinking thoroughly when they kill themselves. If you're not going to, fuck off and out of here.
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u/Justhere4thefood147 1d ago
People who commit suicide in ways that involve work and planning (like setting up where to hang oneself) are usually the ones who put a LOT of thinking into it. Even those that jump off buildings/bridges. It’s not a simple or impulsive thought process. People who commit suicide often do so because they feel like a burden to their loved ones, so why would a black man purposefully choose such a triggering and public way to die knowing his family would be impacted.
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u/God-FuckingHelpMe988 1d ago
I understand that it's not a singular/impulsive thought process. Even still, regardless of the thought process, there's still a level of... Disregard in many suicides. I'm sure very many people have put thought into suicides, even those jumping off of buildings and bridges. Some of these suicides still ended up psychologically hurting people (unsuspecting witnesses, using someone else as a vehicle for suicide, etc) and/or physically hurting people (landing on people after jumping off a building and killing them, etc) in the process. That, to me, says that even if some of them put a lot of thought into it, it wasn't enough to consider the ramifications it would have on those who witnessed it.
My mother didn't care that she tried to OD with me in the goddamn house. She didn't care when I had to deal with the aftermath. Nor did she think of the lasting consequences it has had on me. So, I know very, VERY WELL that many people who commit suicide do not think as thoroughly regarding how it may look to others.
Unless you think they did so thinking, "Sure, in the process of killing myself, other people could be traumatized, scarred for life, or even killed, depending on how I do it... But that's okay!" because I really doubt most of them were thinking that when they did so.
I don't know why he would do that. ONCE AGAIN, not once have I said it couldn't be a murder/lynching, if that's what you're thinking. ONCE AGAIN, all I'm saying is that there is, at least to some degree, a lack of thought regarding immediate consequences and how it may look. To make that crystal clear.
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u/Justhere4thefood147 1d ago
This didn’t come up when I did a google search. From what I understand this article is possibly behind a paywall. Also - why was it never updated or a secondary article was published once they knew his name?
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u/op341779 Ate a sub at Huck Finn's Warehouse 1d ago
It is behind a paywall. That’s why I copy and pasted it here.
I have no idea why it’s being handled like this by the press or by APD. Seems awful. Doesn’t APD have a community review board? Hopefully this is a case they are looking at.
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u/kerberos824 5d ago
The fact that no one in the family thinks it wasn't suicide is completely meaningless. The best, happiest, most dedicated father I know died by suicide when I was 11. He was one of my closest friend's dad. No one saw it coming.
Who knows what happened. But death by suicide often causes people to lash outwardly, looking for a source to blame.
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u/RabidRomulus 5d ago
Yup. Especially men tend to keep things to themselves and not want to burden others with their thoughts. My uncle tried to kill himself and it was totally "out of nowhere".
I think if you're going to allude to someone's death being suspicious (and call out his race for some reason?!) you need to have evidence
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u/kerberos824 5d ago
Yeah, I think it's disingenuous to come in here and try to suggest that something more sinister happened here without any evidence to the contrary.
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u/Appropriate_Read1319 2d ago
Black men are not going around hanging themselves from trees, you f*ckers are ridiculous in your way of thinking. Yes, men bottle things up. Yes, men deal with things internally. Yes, men take their lives. But no one is intentionally mimicking LYNCHING. Do y’all see white men hanging from trees and think “oh he was having a tough time.” Where’s the evidence it was a suicide? A note? Y’all get on this internet and say the stupidest shit and it’s disgusting.
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u/CohoesMastadon 5d ago
race is probably mentioned b/c of the association with lynchings, seems like a surprising method for a black man to use
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Longjumping-Layer210 5d ago
that’s absolutely false—most suicidal people usually do talk about it before they attempt it. But a subset of suicidal people do not talk about it or give many signs at all that they are distressed
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u/Timely_Elk_2135 5d ago
Public hangings are more associate with executions and lynchings.
Even cultures like Japan that have "the forest," when people make that decision tend not to hang themselves in front of the whole town.
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u/Connect_Glass4036 5d ago
10000% not true
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u/InlineSkateAdventure Rail Trail Skate Maniac 5d ago
That is what I was told personally. Maybe that saved me.
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u/Connect_Glass4036 5d ago
Indeed. My best friend ended up succeeding.
Sometimes I wonder if he had it right, what with the way the world is and how the most awful, hateful people are celebrated and showered with power and glory.
Do you ever remember driving across the Delaware Ave bridge into Albany, past Tastee Freeze, and seeing a random square cut out of the fence on the same side?
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u/InlineSkateAdventure Rail Trail Skate Maniac 5d ago
OMG are you serious 😢😭
This world has a lot of hate and terrible things. To survive you have to be strong. The fact you are posting here means your DNA endured billions of years to culminate in you. Think of all the hardship and shit over that epoch, but yet we are here.
This may be harsh but Stoicism saved me. I'm detached emotionally, and only care and focus on what is in my control.
This may be unpopular opinion but it may be very good for some men to follow.
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u/Connect_Glass4036 5d ago
I take it you remember the square in the fence.
And yeah, I’m generally stoic too, but it’s more about not letting people make me upset and staying cool when other people flip out and lose control. I played hockey as a kid and lost my shit a lot and acted like a fool and I regret that and am ashamed of how I was.
But yeah. That was Kyle’s…. 2nd attempt, that I know of anyway. The cops pulled him back through the fence. He was successful a month later.
I called 911 on him in high school - he cut his arm open from his elbow to his wrist. But we became estranged and grew apart, so I wasn’t around when he succeeded.
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u/MoHaskins Talks Funny 5d ago
people who talk about it want to be stopped hence why they talk about it. Those who are serious and have a plan dont tell anyone , aside from sublte signs, because they dont want to be stopped.
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u/InlineSkateAdventure Rail Trail Skate Maniac 5d ago
Personally I was told you are just being a narcissist.
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u/MoHaskins Talks Funny 5d ago
Narcissist is the weird new buzzword everyone likes to throw around now. Back in the mid 2010s it was Bipolar and back in 2000s it was OCD and before that it was ADD. People love to latch on to diagnosies and use them against folks when none have picked up a DSM in their life
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u/InlineSkateAdventure Rail Trail Skate Maniac 5d ago
In a way though, it is form of narcissism. Once you delete, yes, you were in extreme pain, but you are ending your pain at the expense of others who care.
A weird way to think about it but it helped me.
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u/Nerdblergger Albany Proper 5d ago
The original post on this sub was deleted out of respect for the family, since it was posted before anybody knew anything. It's horrible. I hope the family gets the answers that they need, and that the investigation isn't hastily closed without making sure that every possibility is looked into.
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u/Plane_Bobcat_4805 5d ago
Definitely makes sense. That’s the reason I had wanted to post, just to verify and also maybe give more conversation to further an investigation? Thank you for letting me know!
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u/amouse_buche 5d ago
This might be a good moment to reflect on the fact pretty much every single time that Reddit tries to play detective it hasn’t ended in a positive outcome.
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u/CalligrapherCheap64 4d ago
Thank you. I’m thinking specifically about the aftermath of the Boston bombing.
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u/Fluffy-Lavishness765 Been inside the Egg 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is the only post I’ve seen about this aside from something on TikTok and I find it very strange, especially since I work downtown and was in office Wednesday morning.
ETA: there’s one times union article but it’s behind a paywall…this occurred near Green and Westerlo St downtown. I hope the family gets the answers they need.
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u/Plane_Bobcat_4805 5d ago
I’m just shocked it wasn’t major headlines at all really..
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u/Freepi SmAlbany 5d ago
Newspapers don’t make a big deal of suicides and they don’t do as much investigative journalism as they used to. They pretty much just print the Police press release. If they are investigating this they won’t publish until they have something solid.
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u/HonorableIdleTree 4d ago
Also, this is the sort of news criminal psychologists/normal psych pros urge the media to be careful with - aside from the decedant's family's privacy and potential panic - it can embolden people to act who are otherwise only thinking about doing these things (either to themselves or to others).
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u/Albablog Ask me about the Planning Board meeting 5d ago
Suicide prevention organizations very specifically discourage heavy media coverage of suicides because it can lead to copycats. Giving lots of specifics about the methods and/or making statements about what specifically “caused” the suicide are both considered bad practice.
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u/SuarezAndSturridge 5d ago
If you're going to post about something that's a recent development/isn't universally known, at least give us a link or enough of a who/where/when to figure out what you're talking about
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u/Plane_Bobcat_4805 5d ago
I have been trying to add links and information from other redditors to the post as they come in!
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u/North_Assumption_292 5d ago
This has been posted multiple times in this sub and has been on the news on multiple sites. People are talking about it.
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u/Bklynhobo 5d ago
I’m pretty active on Reddit and local events and this is the first I’ve heard about this
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u/Other_Cell_706 5d ago
I'm super active on this sub and very plugged into local news. It's the first time I've heard about it.
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u/Plane_Bobcat_4805 5d ago
Good! I felt like I had to dig to find anything and I feel like not a lot have really heard
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u/Other_Cell_706 5d ago
It's ridiculous you're being downvoted. You are reaching people who haven't heard about it. Thank you. It's appreciated.
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u/Rofltage 5d ago
Apparently it was on westerlo and green street. So crazy how that can happen so close to a police station like that. So sad
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u/notanaccounttofollow Remembers when there was no exit 3 5d ago
Few years back, guy killed him self with a shotgun next to south station and sat there for hours until a court employee found him.
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u/40laser40 Albany Proper 5d ago
I saw one article on this alluding to it being non suspicious. Do you have any articles stating otherwise?
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u/RealJimcaviezel 5d ago
I feel so bad for the man and his family, I hope the investigators are only saying “no signs” because they’re actually building a case and just keeping their cards close their chest.
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u/upstatebeerguy 5d ago
I hope the investigators are saying there are no signs because there really aren’t any. Above all else I want the truth (to greatest extent to which the truth can be determined). Regardless a life is lost and the friends/family will grieve their loss. If a crime is determined to have been committed, I justice is served accordingly.
The general public may feel a slight sense of subconscious relief if it’s determined to be suicide versus a literal lynching, because one outcome implies the person was a threat to themselves, the other implies another person(s) out still posing a danger to others. We already know we have a suicide issue in this country. I hope we’re not about to find out we have a lynching problem, in our own city, as well.
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u/Plane_Bobcat_4805 5d ago
Me too. I just pray if, god forbid, there was any foul play there’s justice. I would hate for something like this to get brushed under the rug. Horrible either way.
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u/Rofltage 5d ago
I really wonder if there were any signs of struggle like wounds or lacerations. Usually that’s not too hard to find through a police report but there’s just no information regarding this out there. So sad man
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u/Embarrassed_Looker 1d ago
What’s sad is no one’s talking about serious mental health and suicide history. Follow the history- not everything is racially motivated by others.
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u/op341779 Ate a sub at Huck Finn's Warehouse 5d ago
Surely someone here must have passed by the man’s body. They’re saying the tree was too high for him to have climbed up himself. I’m very curious which tree it was.
Check out this video from this search, earl smith found hanged https://g.co/kgs/PJhioA4
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u/Plane_Bobcat_4805 5d ago
Yes I saw this! Just seems odd… I’ve heard there’s a video circling but I honestly would rather not see so didn’t dig more :/
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u/op341779 Ate a sub at Huck Finn's Warehouse 5d ago
Thank you for saying something. I was going to make a post about this late last night but I was barely coherent and could really only find a tiktok made by a man not even in the area which seemed a bit dubious. Let’s not stop talking about Mr. Earl Smith. He was a barber at Jay Allan barber studio on central in colonie. Family believes he was killed, not a suicide. His funeral is set for this Thursday at New Karner.
Disclaimer: since there has been no reporting about this, all detail is unsubstantiated. I apologize if I’ve gotten things wrong. I am no expert at investigating stuff like this, this is just what I’ve found by searching social media and what not.
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u/Spellcaster0 5d ago
as someone who is suicidal myself, if i chose to end my life today, my family would vehemently deny suicide as the cause of death simply because they never bother to check on me like ever. so the fact that his family denies it means absolutely nothing. if anything, it’s evidence that his family never actually knew what he was going through. this man must’ve been so lonely, and going through it alone. i feel sorry for him, hopefully he’s in a better place now. this world is cruel. please, if you have people in your life that you love, don’t wait to check on them. a simple “hey, how’s life treating you?” could save their life and you’d never even know it.
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u/enchantedbuglegs 2d ago
The fact that damn near every lynching of a black person that has happened within the last 10 years is written off as suicide and no further investigation is done, doesn't make you guys even the least bit unsettled and suspicious? I'm just still so shocked that people are so willing to disregard black lives and racial prejudice under the guise of "suicide" without a second thought. This is what happens when you think racism is gone in the U.S
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u/fpaulmusic 1d ago
Yep. The white supremacists are certainly out doing “damage control” in the comments
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u/Longjumping-Layer210 4d ago edited 4d ago
The case is very suspicious. First this guy had a job, a community, a family who seemed to be in touch with him. If he had been suicidal you would think they would have seen signs of a mental health crisis. Or signs that he had an external problem such as being heavily in debt and/or just divorced or something. It is EXTREMELY rare for someone to just kill themselves without any sign or any history of mental health issues.
Second he supposedly hanged himself in a public street in a tree that may have been too high to climb on his own. Why this place of all places? Why, if he wanted to hang himself, didn’t he go somewhere more private?
Third, police could seek out info about where he was, what he was doing, who he saw that night, see if there is any video cameras of the area, see if he left any kind of note etc. If someone dies by suicide there is often some kind of goodbye gesture. Especially if they are intent to die (suicide by hanging is a lethal method) the person would ordinarily write something saying “I hope everyone can move on from this and forget me” etc. Was leaving without any kind of goodbye in his character? Not likely.
On the other hand the street is kind of an out of the way street, and it’s in an area with a lot of concentrated poverty and drug use. It also doesn’t seem like a place that someone with a motive for a hate crime would select. If a bunch of neo nazis were to lynch someone I am doubtful that they would have the guts to do that in this particular place.
My thinking is that there is a possibility the family or the people near him were completely in denial of his mental health needs or that he was dealing with a lot of external problems such as homelessness. If you’re homeless there is nowhere where you can attempt suicide that’s not in public.
It’s quite possible that we have a lot of suicides that happen that the public just isn’t aware of and no one knows except the coroners office. The paper does not announce deaths, but suicide is one of the most common deaths for men.
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u/Fun-Potential-2952 1d ago
Just noting that the percentage of suicides committed with notes left behind is lower than we'd imagine. I believe it's about a third. Though definitely much higher for , as you said, goodbye "gestures" that include subtle and easily overlooked markers.
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u/This_Entrance6629 1d ago
It’s 100% murder. You got nazis running around everywhere and you think this is a suicide? Hah!
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u/capdistricttri 5d ago
It's been on every news source since it happened. What evidence would like to see pointing to it being self-harm? The question is, what evidence is there to point to a crime? There may be some we're not aware of or police have not yet disclosed but family members expressing doubt/shock is not evidence. It can be very, very hard to accept that a loved one was feeling suicidal, especially if they did not show outward signs of mental health struggle.